I would guess that they would look at your FIRST undergrad degree, not your "second". The second wouldn't technically be considered an undergraduate degree per se. There's no "do-overs" in college. I think it would be more favorably looked upon if you got a masters in something rather than trying to do over your undergrad.

If you want to work at a college, especially in something like student affairs or admissions, I believe a masters in higher ed administration would work better than public administration.

Don't certain schools also look at the success (or failure) that you've had in the professional world after undergrad? I mean I could be wrong but I think certain schools look at that type of thing as well?

yeah, they do! That whole LSAC number thing- where they take into consideration your LSAT score and undergrad GPA and make some number- is used a lot for people that they don't have to take a closer look at and know they can admit them. But for other people they do look at what you've been doing with your life, your rec letters, personal statement, etc.

That being said, it's HARD to get into law school right now, for anyone. Even with good grades and good LSAT. Law school's not for everyone

i heard there is an over saturation in the field....is this true?

YES! I'm in the job market right now, and it's terrible. Of course, when I applied to law school shortly after 9/11, we didn't know how the economy would go or that there would be such a freeze/lull in hiring. Finding a job right now sucks, even being about to graduate from a Tier 1 or 2 school (my school keeps going between). There is a LOT I wish I could've/would've known before going to law school. And it's not just in my area, I know for certain from friends that pretty much everywhere else is the same.

Also, something like entertainment law is incredibly saturated, b/c it's seen as a "glamorous" job. Only a few people go into law school with a very particular type of law in mind that they want to practice. They'll likely change their minds. It's not really good to limit yourself also when the job market is tight. There's not many jobs at all starting out in entertainment law, if any. People that practice it sorta made their way there through various routes.

People ask me what kind of law I want to practice in, and honestly, i'm VERY flexible and open to ideas. I have to be, or else i'll be on the street in a cardboard box pretty soon :)

A friend of mine who is in law school right now at the University of Florida was talking to me about that the other day. UF has had a huge increase in the number of law school applicants. It could be that more people are also graduating from college than in the past but a lot has to do with the economy. Med school applicants are up, too. I've had many friends and sorority sisters who went on to get their masters degree or law degree after college to postpone their entrance into the real world. I think any who does that will eventually get a reality check because getting your masters or law degree is no cake walk!
He graduates next year and he had a hard time getting an internship nonetheless a job because there are so many law school students looking for a summer internship!

damn, yea..a friend of mine who is a lawyer said that a lot of young lawyers are having a hard time securing jobs or what not...and that there seems to be a huge rush to head to the law school track.

good deal i quickly put that out of my mind in my plans after undergrad.

ZTAngel, you brought up good points that I forgot to mention.

Law school applications have been WAYYYY up the past few years, and there's more attorneys entering the field that their are leaving it. Not only does that make job placement hard, but just getting into law school, even in the "lower" tiered schools, MUCH more difficult.

that's pretty much the sentiment across the board. a friend of mine isn't too keen on her current job, so she's pursuing law. luckily jobs weren't too scarce when i graduated from grad school...but then again, there's a lot of building going on.

i won't lie, though....i though getting my masters was hella easy.

Basically, I guess, the moral to this story, there is no way in h-e-double L I'll be getting into law school. Is this what I am hearing or am I hearing it correctly? (BTW I am not being defensive or sarcastic . . . just getting a bit of info).

depends on your abilities.

and the market.

When I was still in school (and I think you graduated around the same time as me), Target came to our career center to interview students for a training program. I can't remember exactly what the program entailed but I do know that the new grads rotated between learning the finance, marketing, merchandising, human resources and management aspects of the company and were eventually placed in whatever area they excelled at. You've been working there for so long that I would think you'd have an "in" on this program. Have you looked into it or heard of it?

ETA:
It's called the Executive-in-Training program. Maybe talk to your human resources department about it? Also, I'd look at the when the career fairs are at the local colleges. It would be a good chance to meet some companies that are looking for entry-level candidates.

Well, it depends. Don't know your GPA or LSAT scores (have you taken the LSAT? That could make a big difference if you score REALLY well on that) and i'm not familiar with the undergrad academic reputation of your undergrad. But you don't sound to confident in your undergrad record (which isn't bad, it's good to be honest with yourself), which is not a good thing.

If you've got crappy grades, if you pulled off a very solid LSAT you could probably get in SOMEWHERE, but that doesn't mean that you should go there. Going to a lower-reputation law school isn't going to help you get a job in one of the bigger cities, at all.

There's the issue of getting into law school, then there's the issue of whether or not you could get the job of your dreams or on the way to your dreams after...

I get the impression that you're not really sure what the heck you want to do. For those reasons, I'd strongly advise you to take some time and work and figure out what you want to do. Don't go wasting money or time on something that's not right for you and not going to give you what you want.

Law school's a HUGE investment, both time and money ($85K for me! and I had some scholarship money and live in a lower cost of living area), and you shouldn't do it if you're not sure.

Charlotte School of Law will have its inaugural class in the Fall of 2006.

That's a good point. I forget how it works though, because they won't have ABA accrediation I *think* you could only take the bar in NC and practice in NC. I'm too lazy at the moment to find out for sure. I'm sure it'll be easier to get into, but getting a job right out, outside of the area/state, would be very very very hard.

ETA: need to page GeekyPenguin to this thread as she just went through the process this year

I think it's something like that.

As for her finding a job outside of the area -- depending on what she decides to do, it's just a matter of her passing the bar and getting that initial experience. I get the impression she wants to stay local for the time being anyways. Our office manager/paralegal at work is waiting for Charlotte's law school to open simply for the fact that she needs to possess a law degree to sit for the bar. She has a job waiting for her, so she doesn't need or care to go to a top-tier law school.

But unfortunately the OP doesn't have that sort of situation. And honestly, it would be VERY hard, if not nearly impossible, to get that sort of set up for the job that she wants- an entertainment lawyer in one of the big cities.

If you end up in a situation like that, it's great, but if not, I honestly wouldn't advise it unless it's a last ditch sort of thing.

Can you go there for say, a year, and transfer to an ABA-accredited school so you can take the bar anywhere? That might be a good idea for me?

To transfer to an ABA accredited school you have to originally attend an ABA accredited school.

Yeah, it would kinda take out the whole point of ABA accreditation. The start up law schools would be like junior colleges or prep schools for law school. And if you need a junior college/prep school for law school there's a strong possibility that you shouldn't be going to law school in the first place.

The problem is this: if you're going to get a 2nd bachelor's degree in paralegal studies, that's fine. But you're going to need to work for a while after receiving it before trying to go to law school. I believe the rule of thumb is that the worse your grades are, the longer you should wait to apply to law school. They say if you have below a 3.0, you should wait about five years. They're not going to count your grades from any bachelor degrees beyond your first one anyways, and it will be obvious to them you were just trying to raise your GPA.

Regarding the current job situation: the first thing I thought when I read your original post was, "she only sent out 50 resumes over a year and a half time period?" When I graduated from college, I sent out well over 150 resumes in about a three month period. Play that numbers game. The more resumes you send out, the more likely you're going to be to land that job.

If you can get that legal experience before going to law school, then going to a school like Charlotte's new law school will be okay since you'll have a better chance of getting a job upon graduation. Although their "hook" is that they'll be graduating lawyers w/ the experience of a 2nd year associate. So, once they get that ABA approval, they might not be a bad school for you to look into attending.

I personally will NOT be attending there b/c I need out of this state!

I probably won't go there either simply because I don't plan on staying in the Southeast. I most certainly do not want to work in North Carolina. I don't like that state a whole bunch. I don't like South Carolina all that much either.

Like I said I want to be an Entertainment Lawyer so North Carolina would not be the best state to be in for that type of law.

HI. I am all-knowing about accreditation because the school I am 99% sure I am going to is a new school that's about to get fully accredited, so I can talk about that if we need to. :)

Without having an idea of your LSAT score and GPA, it's hard to say. I had a sub 3.0 GPA but a LSAT above 160 - I've been accepted at 3 schools I applied to, waitlisted at 1, 4 are still pending, and rejected at 4. I applied to a few reach schools and a few safeties, but was rejected at one of my safeties and accepted at a reach. www.lawschoolnumbers.com is a really cool website where you can search for people with similiar numbers to yours and see how their application cycle turned out.

I just want to say that Entertainment Law is extremely competitive, and you need to know someone to get in. My friend is going into Entertainment law in a NYC firm, and he worked in the field before law school. He has a ton of connections. It also didnt hurt that he went to school right outside NYC and was at the top of the class, law review, etc.

So not only do you need to know someone, you have to be the best. So many people want to be an entertainment lawyer, and I hate to tell you that its a pipe dream. Even me, with my friend as a connection, would never be able to get into the field right out of law school because I am not in the top 10% of my class. Then, it would be hard to get in it in a few years because I won't have experience in the field.

Find out if law is really for you. It is NOT easy, nor fun. Had I known what law really is (reading and writing) I probably would not have gone to law school. But I am graduating next week.

As far as the job market goes, I am so lucky that I have a job in Sept- most of my friends do not. A lot of people are clerking for judges (making $35,000- consider they have $120,000 in debt). It is a HUGE, expensive investment, and too many people go to law school not realizing what it is. My class had 450 students first year-- and only 360 or so are graduating.

Plus, studying for the bar is NOT fun. I am sick of it already, and I just started on Monday :(

I have a lot of comments on your situation, so I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

First-- what type of job had you been trying to get? If it was in broadcasting, then it is understandable why you had a tough time. What they neglect to tell you in journalism school is that broadcasting is one of the hardest fields to break in to-- particularly if you want to be on air. It's very similar to acting.. for every one that makes it-- there are thousands on the street starving.

What they also don't tell you is that broadcasting is on the "pyramid system." There are more than 210 TV markets in the U.S. BUT-- unless you are up on the top of the pyramid (NY, Chicago, and LA) you're going to make next to nothing. You'll work harder than you ever worked before, and make about what you'd make flipping hamburgers.

It's very interesting that the majority of the average public think ALL broadcasters make a pile of cash when they're in the industry, when the opposit is true. I suppose you can blame the media itself for perpetuating this falsehood-- since they often report on the inflated salaries of those who work in the Olympics of broadcasting (network TV) as opposed to those eeking out a living in North Platte, Nebraska.

You take a vow of poverty when you accept that broadcasting degree!

BUT -- there is hope. IF you persue long enough, hard enough, and keep at it, you *may* get lucky (yes, luck is definately involved) and land a job in a good paying market.

Now to the entertainment lawyer job... I have a friend who is an entertainment lawyer, and he is out of work most of the time. He does "temp" work as an attorney. Yes-- hard to believe, but TV networks DO hire short term "temps" to complement the coveted staff positions.

It is a very crowded field with many, many, many, MANY people trying to land a job in the field. Entertainment is considered "glamorous" which is why so many people try to get in to the field.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but I do want to give you a bitter dose of reality to what you will face. The road to a law degree is a long one-- and it doesn't always pay off.

Having said that, I was a person who endured many years of near minimum wage positions in broadcasting (not law), and it finally paid off for me. I love what I'm doing, making a nice salary, and felt those years of living on Kraft Macaroni and Cheese were worth it. Those were some hard years, and some very discouraging years. But I kept up the faith, and I'm glad I did.

Go for your dreams, but go in with your eyes open. Do your homework. I would suggest contacting some entertainment attornies. Be blunt. Tell them you're considering going in to the field, and would like a few moments of their time for an "informational interview." See if they'll give you some advice and tell you what it was like for them. If you hit it off with one, see if they'll be your mentor.

Good luck! I hope my long post helped.

I wonder how hard the new school in Charleston is to get into? Just a thought. USC's getting to the point where it's more and more difficult to get into, from what I've heard. I have a friend who goes to Columbia, but he held his spot at USC just in case, plus he was waiting on a response from Harvard, and people were SO mad at him because they were wait-listed.

As far as the Masters to postpone the real world... With the job market the way it is, it's not a bad idea to stay in school. I remember them telling us sophomore year that it was a good time to be in school, and us hoping the job market would get better (which, of course, it didn't), but postponing 3 more years wouldn't exactly be a bad idea in terms of waiting for the economy to improve.

Have you tried talking to one of the Charlotte Entertainment Lawyers? When I was trying to decide if I was going to go back (intellectual property, specializing in copyrights) I talked to an intellectual property lawyer, and he said that there was only ONE specializing in copyrights, and I think he said the same for entertainment. It might be a good idea to talk to one and see what you're REALLY diealing with.

Yes, I have talked with one. He is an entertainment lawyer in Atlanta, GA. He is the one that really encouraged me to become an entertainment lawyer. :)

Are you wanting to move to Atlanta or come back here? I personally L-O-V-E Atlanta, and am ready to move down there as soon as my lease runs out, but I didn't know if your plans were to stay in Greenville or move back here or what.

I love the ATL as well! I am planning on moving to Atlanta in the near future (when I finish my second Bachelor's and my Paralegal degree). I want to work with Katz, Smith, & Cohen as a paralegal (and someday as a lawyer). I eventually (which means way down the road) want to move to NYC. I probably love NYC more than the ATL. Of course, moving to NYC is in the distant future but it's still a dream (I believe, anyways) that can come true. My ethic is if you work hard enough you can achieve your dreams. Everyone has their setbacks (I have a few!)

Two of my very good friends are in New York right now... one at Columbia Law. They keep begging me to go up there, but I love my car too much to get rid of it! (I know... horrible reason!) I'll hopefully be able to find a job in Atlanta next summer. My parents are moving to Clemson this summer, so the distance to them will be the same from Atlanta as it is from Lake Wylie. One of my sorority sisters (from my chapter, of course) works at Rich's in Atlanta, though, and a couple of other friends of friends live down there, too. I lived there when I was teeny-tiny. I'm ready to go!

This article might cheer you guys up- according to this the job market is better than before:

New York Times
May 24, 2005
Companies Recruiting New Graduates
By EDUARDO PORTER

ebecca Palmer, who just graduated from Wichita State University, did not have to look for a job. The job found her.

Last March, the Cessna Finance Corporation called her to offer a position as a sales administrator in its international division. "It was very easy," said Ms. Palmer, 23. "They had three positions that opened up at the same time."

Just two years ago, even the best prospects coming out of college were accepting second-best job offers, if they were receiving any offers at all. But as tens of thousands of new graduates enter the labor market this month and next, corporate recruiters are snapping them up at a clip not seen since 2001 - before the cooling economy took a heavy toll on campus hiring.

Companies expect to hire 13 percent more graduates than last year, according to a poll by the National Association of Colleges and Employers. And 85 percent of employers are offering higher initial salaries than last year.

Two years ago, seniors were suffering through grueling rounds of interviews to land even a mediocre job. This year, students across a range of majors, from computer science to liberal arts, are hearing employers knocking on their doors.

"There's a level of competitiveness we hadn't seen in four years," said John Campagnino, global head of recruiting for Accenture, a consulting firm. "All of our competitors are out there going after the same students. It's rare if a student we make an offer to doesn't already have an offer from somewhere else."

The job market is not quite back to the free-wheeling days of the late 1990's, when fierce competition for talent from the dot-com economy spawned urban legends about brand new BMW's as sign-up bonuses. But 65 percent of employers plan to offer sign-up bonuses to their most promising recruits, up from 42 percent last year.

For Tom Dharte, 22, who received his diploma from the University of Dayton on May 8, the challenging part about the job hunt was choosing among competing offers.

"I had interviews in New York, Chicago, Detroit and Cincinnati," Mr. Dharte said. "By December I had an offer in each of those cities." In the end, he took a job as an analyst at Merrill Lynch's private equity unit in Princeton, N.J., where he did an internship last year.

The job market was dreary for everybody in the last few years. But young college graduates, who benefited most from the hiring frenzy among online firms in the late 1990's, were hit particularly hard when the dot-com bubble burst, investment in technology collapsed and dozens of online ventures went under.

By the end of last year, only 85.2 percent of 25- to 35-year-old college graduates had a job, down from 87.4 percent in 2000, according to an analysis of census data by Elise Gould of the Economic Policy Institute. Whereas average earnings of young people without a college degree declined by 0.8 percent from 2000 to 2004, to $13.38 an hour, wages of young college graduates fell 2.8 percent, to $22.41.

Now, as the job market starts warming up across the country, demand for new college graduates is picking up, too. At Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind., the number of employers visiting campus has increased 12 percent to 15 percent this year, said Timothy B. Luzader, director of the center for career opportunities.

At the University of Dayton in Ohio, Greg Hayes, the executive director of career services, expects a 7 percent increase in the hiring of graduates this year. Marcia B. Harris, director of career services at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said that this year about 35 percent of graduating seniors had jobs awaiting them, up from 30 percent last year and about 15 percent in 2003.

The Department of Labor does not break out statistics on the job status of young college graduates. But it does show that the unemployment rate of workers ages 20 to 24, the typical age at graduation, dropped 1.2 percentage points over the last two years, to 8.9 percent even as the total unemployment rate declined 0.8 percentage point, to 5.2 percent.

Some professions are hotter than others. Accounting majors are benefiting after the passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which forced corporate executives to take responsibility for the accuracy of their accounting. Mr. Hayes added that majors in fields related to national security, from computer science to engineering, are also having a good year.

Even manufacturing companies, which for years have done nothing but shed workers, are picking up graduates. At Wichita State, where job prospects depend heavily on the aerospace companies nearby, Jill M. Pletcher, director of career services, said she was "guardedly optimistic."

Prospects are improving noticeably all the way down to graduates with liberal arts degrees, who typically have the most difficult time finding a job. Starting salaries for liberal arts majors are expected to increase by 4 percent, after a decline of 1.4 percent last year, according to a survey by the college and employer association.

Companies are even hiring some of the graduates they shunned in the lean years.

Jonathan Narveson, 24, was lucky to have a job offer when he graduated from the University of North Carolina in 2003. It just was not the computer industry job he really wanted. He did about 25 interviews with 15 companies and ended up as a salesman for Newell Rubbermaid in Charlotte, N.C.

But last year, with the labor market tauter, Mr. Narveson was able to align his career with his aspirations, taking a job as a consultant in the financial services operating unit of Accenture. These days, he happily wields the appropriate consulting firm lingo. "From a career acceleration standpoint, this is a great steppingstone," he said.

After three high-strung years, Mr. Luzader at Purdue said, "There seems to be less anxiety on the student grapevine about opportunities."

Interest in graduate study, a typical indicator of graduates' concerns over getting a job, has declined in some areas. For instance, the Law School Admission Council expects there will be 4.8 percent fewer applicants to law schools this year.

Some graduates seem to be starting to feel comfortable again about navigating the job market, and life, at their own pace.

Dennis A. DiTullio, who will graduate in June from Ohio State University, plans to work a couple of years at his fraternity, Phi Gamma Delta, teaching leadership courses at chapters around the country, before plunging into the job market.

"I want to move around a little bit; see the world before I plop down in my cube," Mr. DiTullio said. "I still get to be around college campuses. I don't have to wake up one day and suddenly mature a lot."

Thanks, KATwoman, for the article! It did cheer me up!

Thanks to everyone else as well! This morning, all I did was go to places to physically hand them my resume! I was a bit hellbent on getting a job this morning. It was kind of like "If you won't come to me, I'm coming to you, like it or not" kind of an attitude this morning.

Don't know anything yet but cross your fingers! I am going back out to the job "wilderness" on Thursday (I work at the hell-hole tomorrow all day so tomorrow is shot). I also went to If It's Paper (a paper and party supply store in Greenville, SC) and spent $24 on a pack of 500 sheets of, what they call, Classic Linen paper to print some more resumes.

CarolinaDG, I have family in Atlanta. My uncle used to own a huge plantation house about a spitting distance outside of Atlanta. The house was absolutely GORGEOUS! When he and his significant other (if you get my drift) became unable to maintain the upkeep of this humungous house, they sold it to this French woman who, unfortunately, ripped out the original butler's quarters. My uncle about had a stroke when he heard what she did. Well, my uncle and his partner moved into a condominium near downtown. They had quite a bit of money so of course the condo was magnificent!

To some extent this is true...but it's not always.

My B.A will probably get me an entry level job...perhaps even in my field (Poli. Sci. so, somewhere in the government).

My college diploma could easily get me a job starting at $40,000.

You don't always need a degree to get a good job.

To ZTAWinthropgirl: I would continue with your paralegal course (as long as it is an accrediated program). I don't know what the job market is like where you live, but law clerks/paralegals/legal assistants are in high demand where I live...so even if they are not in high demand around you, you could easily transfer the skill you have to another job market if you were willing to relocate.

Good luck!

I would agree that the degree has little influence over the ability to gain employment. I am a mid level college adminsitrator with a BA in English and an MA in Liberal Arts that I earned more than 10 years ago. And it's not any different today than it was then, nepotism really helps.

I graduated having chosen my major in the second semester of my junior year and only then because I couldn't take any more classes without declaring a major. I went to grad school because I wasn't quite ready to do the job hunt thing, and after getting my degree, it took me almost a year to find a "real" job. However, the only reason I did was because of nepotism. And seriously, having been in my field for as long as I have, I see it work out over and over, which is why having a mentor REALLY helps.

I think that some of the really good advice that has been given on this thread has been: 1. get a mentor, 2. get an internship, 3. don't be afraid to move. I would add that you need to think about employment as a career as opposed to a job/paycheck. It makes all the difference in the world in terms of how you approach your search.

Knowing what moves you and gives you purpose is helpful. That means figuring out what you LIKE to do (despite what your degree is in) and finding a way to make money doing it. (and belive me you can make money doing pretty much anything)

Once you've figured that out, doing your research is important; you need to be able to anticipate questions for interviews or be able to write a business plan if you are going to go it alone. Don't underestimate the power of preparedness, and it's ok to ask someone who you did interview with, why you didn't get the job. ( "I am going on future interviews and would like to strengthen my interviewing skills. What feedback can you give me that might be helpful?") While rejection hurts, it can also help you if you use it to your advantage.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but its soooo important to market yourself. You have to ready at a moment's notice to give someone "your stats". Being able to show my leadership abilities and my skill set has landed me several opportunities.

Also, how open are you to change? Are you set on one particular path and one path only? Sometimes opportunities open up that aren't in the area you thought you wanted to be in, but they turn out to be the best situation for you. Don't let a great opportunity slip away because the field isn't what you planned to do.

This is my plan for my future:

(1) finish my Associate of Arts in Paralegal Studies
(2) finish my Bachelor of Science in Public Administration (mind you
I already have a B.A. in Mass Communications-Broadcast)
(3) work for 5+ years as a paralegal in Atlanta, GA, volunteer, study for LSAT, and join professional organizations
(4) register for LSAS and take LSAT
(5) enter (hopefully) law school
(6) study for and pass Bar exam in Georgia
(7) one day in the future (when I have the $$) open my own record label (that's my dream . . . kind of hokey but that's what I want to do)

BTW, I don't mind moving once I finish my degrees. That's not the problem. Right now I need to find a job that pays something more than $6.85 an hour and pays the bills. Of course, I want to find something I enjoy . . . that'd be ideal but if I can't pay the bills why stay?

Also, my Paralegal degree is being earned at an ABA-approved program. Paralegals and clerks are in high demand if you have 5 to 10 years experience as a paralegal/clerk. I don't so how can I get experience outside of an unpaid internship?

Excellent plan!

A woman I know started off as a law clerk and then went to law school and is now practicing in wills/estates.

Since I don't know what it's like in South Carolina, I can't give you specific advice (things are a little different here...there seems to be more opportunity for entry level law clerks here), but here are something you might try:

* try sending your resume to law firms...big, medium, small, it doesn't matter. They may be looking for a legal assistant/secretary, whatever and you never know, just having a firm on your resume could give you a leg up or they may get you to do some work (help out) that a law clerk/paralegal would do.
Also, many large firms have articling/clerking prgrams for law students...they may also be willing to hire on paralegal students...it never hurts to ask.

* check to see if there is a legal temp agency in your area. They may be able to help find you a job...they don't just place lawyers. I am using one in my area and they have been very helpful.

* Do you know any lawyers in your area? They might be able to hook you up. If you have any connections, don't be afraid to ask for their help.

* Does your school offer a field/work placement program or any career services? If they do, use it! I know at my school many firms placed adds looking for summer students and recent graduates...they are a good source for gaining experience.

Thanks Lady Pi Phi! I have a cousin who is a lawyer in Charlotte, NC and another in Columbia, SC, both cities have a high demand for paralegals and law clerks. Since I haven't finished my degrees yet, I am kind of stuck.

In Greenville, SC, the firms want anywhere from 3 to 10 years experience in the legal field. I think I have blanketed G'ville's law firms with resumes but not all of them! I'll keep plugging along. :)