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I don't think anyone is being yelled at...THIS IS YELLING AT SOMEONE. But, sometimes it does happen , get over it! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif
ANYWAY.......... Blonde1, I just got home and checked this forum...and you seem like you've become more pleasant since this morning. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif(And please don't say anything smart like " My being pleasant has nothing to do with you." I know it doesn't! And... I knew you couldn't be that bad of a person. I just think you're opinions/ideas are so much easier to digest if you don't come off so rudely. I'm really out of here this time...it's been a real experience "conversing" with you! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 30, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 30, 2000).] |
This is a very interesting discussion, to say the least.
As far as Alpha Phi Omega is concerned, check this out: While we have an MIP program geared very similarly to those of the NPHC orgs, our policy is that all prospective MUST PLEDGE! MIP is for chapters at schools that prohibit pledging and the school administration must submit such a statement to APO's national office IN WRITING! Thus we have very few brothers that officially go through MIP. The irony to that effect is this: Many of our chapters pledge brothers in the name of membership intake and have a MIP oriented process. Go figure. Of course, the chapters at the HBCUs play the pledging card to the hilt. Yes, I PLEDGED HARD! I didn't get my @$$ beat, but I can say I PLEDGED A SERVICE FRAT! I got a question to the NPHC orgs in the next post... Rain Man |
To the NPHC orgs
I understand your concerns on the whole paper/real debate, but if I am not mistaken, wasn't the whole MIP created because many of the colleges and universities was ready to expel all NPHC orgs off the respective campuses? Thus drastic measures call for drastic actions? I am just curious. If someone joins an NPHC org "paper" can (s)he become "real" postinitiately or is (s)he marked for life, like Hester Prynne ("The Scarlet Letter"). Please be careful when dealing with a brother/sister who went in "paper". You could be discouraging someone who has/had true love for the organization, but simply wasn't allowed the opportunity to show it the way you would like to see it (I SAY THIS FROM FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, and the brother in question got so disgusted, he wrote a letter to Nationals formally renouncing his oath and membership in the fraternity). email me if you would like the details. In short, rather than complain about MIP in a forum such as this, appeal to your National Offices to change such practices, or implement what you feel would be a doable pledge program and submit it to your National delegation. Hey, I'm on your side all the way. Da Rain Man |
Dang yall. This is like the topic that won't die.
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I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
Romans 16:17 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sexy Mocha:
[B]I don't think anyone is being yelled at...THIS IS YELLING AT SOMEONE. But, sometimes it does happen , get over it! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Agreed Blonde1, I just got home and checked this forum...and you seem like you've become more pleasant since this morning. It's all a ruse. I'm quietly seething as I type. Hmmm. Maybe I'll put on the angry face icon. )(And please don't say anything smart like " My being pleasant has nothing to do with you." Oh but Mocha! You are so charming. Could there be any other reason? I know it doesn't! And... I knew you couldn't be that bad of a person. Well... I won't mention the warrants if you don't. I just think you're opinions/ideas are so much easier to digest if you don't come off so rudely. Mother said I should play nice I'm really out of here this time...it's been a real experience "conversing" with you! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm rubber and you're--- oh wait, was that a compliment? Gee thanks! |
Hey all,
I have been reading this thread and have been very disturbed by the all out assault on Blonde1 and others for her God given right to have an opinion, I do not believe she was being pompus or rude, she is just asking the questions that most of us would not ask... don't get mad with her for having a voice, you must realize like myself there are many here who are not greek and anything you say will have an adverse view on not only yourself, but the organization you choose to represent. Now the facts remain the same, if you want to change MIP, go to your respective orgs and legislate... I personally don't feel its right for any member of a greek org to discriminate on a bro/sis who just happens to come in with a process that your org implemented. But would you say I am overstepping my bounds with that statement because I am not greek? To each his/her own, but it makes common sense to me. A blessed day to all and keep the peace... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you Janet Jackson |
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Miss Diva, I believe I made it quite clear that it wasn't Blonde1's ideas/thoughts/views that I had a problem with...it was the manner in which she/he chose to express her/himself...and YES, I did find her pompous and rude, and I expressed that to her/him personally. We had a few curt words, we laughed a little, we moved on. I suggest everyone do the same. I understand YOU don't have a problem with what she said or how she said it, but I did. We all have an opinion, which is what keeps these topics interesting. For the record, I represent Mocha and no one else. You also have a pleasant day. [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).] |
Blonde1, I apolgize for referring to you as him/her, but it just dawned on me ...I don't know if you're male or female.
BTW, LOL at your last post! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).] |
We all have different opinions. I have learned that this is one subject where for most people, there is no middle ground. I don't seek to change anyone's opinion, becuase like I said, most folks already have thier minds made up on this. I do think however that we can all agree to disagree.
I will say that if you hate the system, work to try to change it. It's easy as hell to sit on your duff, and complain, but when it comes time to put forth some action some of the same folks that bitch the most are no where to be found. Thats just my take, and I wish every one a wonderfull day. Peace and luv to all MN |
I am a she. WIth a kickin yellow 'fro.
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Well......you go 'head with yo bad, pompous ass! Sorry, I just had to slip the pompous thing in there...you know...for old times sake http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif |
Whut's up peoples. I believe that if you truly love your org. you will love your brother/sister regardless of their status. If you love your organization, take pride in its rituals, and work to uphold its goals...then you will love your brother/sister regardless. If you disrespect them in person or in post; than you are disrespecting your organization and showing yourself to be a member of much work. I say much work because we should all be striving to be better members every day. Just a sidebar to BGLO members, some people who pledged above ground neither respect nor recognize any individual that is a product of an underground process. And before someone asks, yes I am a member of a BGLO.
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I was going to stay away from this topic but I find myself being beckoned to answer the clarion call.
1. Black Greeks need to just be honest: while we say MIP, we don't really beleive in that...and those who come in through that process have less respect...and are not treated very brotherly/sisterly! (Its a SAD fact)...I would go as far to say that most brothers who people who pledge Grad Chapters are straight hated on (b/c its assumed that they didn't really pledge)! 2. While MIP isn't perfect, it doesn't kill anybody...and there are plenty of horror stories about people dying or being scarred for life in ALL organizations. YOU should not go to the hospital while your on line...thats BULL@#$%!!! That isn't pledging, thats an ASS whuppin'...and college graduates and students look like some thug gang when they do and submit to such. 3. I am embrace folks who come into the frat by any means necessary...some of the nicest and most fraternal brothers are those WHO DIDN'T Pledge...And, contrary to popular opinion, they too will wake up and do whatever for you...!!! I've seen it happen. If you've seen the Light of ALPHA...you are an ALPHA...I just wish everybody saw it that way. On the otherhand, there is something to be said about a brother who PLEDGED...b/c they take their commitment to the frat seriously...but neither process guarantees a committed brother! 4. I don't think Blonde1 is out of line, The reason that we don't attract the same type of people we used to attract in our orgs. is because people feel as though we are frivolous. These questions need to be addressed...we are all to quick to call someone paper, but not ready to answer the questions about it. Many of my friends who aren't greek...but who are tight (and should be) question how I could get my ass beat to be call brother. So, just answer the questions and be honest...but just know that somewhere some Neo is reading or listening to you old heads and trying to figure out what is correct! Some will say that my vote in favor of MIP means that I'm probably paper....Let Me STOP you!!! Started Pledging Undergrad, crossed grad....done and seen both processes in action...(some will say that's too much info...but I'm proud of the way I came through)...I came through!!!! I hope more come through...who TASTE and FEEL there respective orgs. Much love, O6, Ice Cold Kreator |
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It was not WHAT she said OR the specific questions she raised.....IT WAS THE RUDE AND DISRESPECTFUL WAY IN WHICH SHE SAID IT! I thought she was arrogant...I addressed her. For those of you who found nothing wrong with her comments, then fine...I'm happy for you... but that doesn't, in the slightest bit, change the way I feel about it. [This message has been edited by Sexy Mocha (edited August 31, 2000).] |
Ms. Mocha your point is taken well... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
for the diva will allways speak for herself... ------------------ In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you Janet Jackson |
Miss Diva! I just realized we have more in common than I thought! Your point is well taken as well!
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Forgot password...need to go...typing frantically...so:
I'm appreciative that so many of you have come to my defense, but I challenged 7BA94 just as vigorously as Mocha challenged me. If you'd single her out, single me out as well, and be prepared to comprise a lengthy list of likewise offenders. My feeling is no blood, no foul. It's a good discussion, so let's not get bogged down in exchanging niceities and continue to talk. |
To all of those who say that National Officers need to read these boards, let me say that here is one who is reading them. I am the National Executive Director for the Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Inc.
I will start by saying that I have been a member of Iota for 20 years and I pledged for 6 weeks. I also happen to be a 21-year member of Kappa Kappa Psi Band fraternity… which I pledged for 7 weeks … at an HBCU. I have seen (and participated in) all kinds of processes. And based on all of that, I will offer some comments. First of all, the popular myth is that MIP is the cause of pledging going “underground.” The corollary myth is that if we went back to a pledge process that resembled what was happening when I was an undergrad, the underground stuff would go away. Wrong! There has always been underground activity – and it was just as bad, just as brutal (if not moreso!) than it is now. MIP is not the problem. The problem is (and has always been) people who put their own selfish wants and desires above those of the whole. Every member of any Greek Letter Organization took a solemn oath to be truthful to, and supportive of his or her organization. They also took an oath to follow the rules, regulations and laws of their organization. Not just the rules they LIKE … not just the rules that are CONVENIENT … all of them. As an Iota pledgee, I was taught that to break the rules was to dishonor the fraternity and all it stood for. Based on that, I find it perverse that people would say that they love the organization on one hand but in their expression of that love, they defile the organization by breaking the rules by hazing. And speaking of hazing, there are two important facts that get lost in this discussion. A lot of folks think that if we went back to a sanitized version of pre 1990’s pledging that everything would be just fine. Not so for 2 reasons: 1) The definition of hazing has changed. “Back in the day”, the things that were done (e.g. walking in line, carrying bricks, etc.) were not called hazing – they were just “what was done.” Today however, these acts are illegal. And not illegal just per campus rules & regulations but per state and local LAWS. Back in the day, the police didn’t care … today, these things are crimes and are punishable as such! 2) In the past 15 years, we have become a far more litigious society. The things that used to be forgiven & forgotten will now land your behind in civil court … facing judgments of millions of dollars! Does anyone’s organization have the funds and resources to withstand such? I know that mine does not. The bottom line here is that there has always been a fine line between pledging and hazing (it has gotten much finer with time). The people who have been tasked with the responsibility of leading our organizations have decided that they are unwilling to bet their organizations’ future on the judgment of a 19-year old to know the difference. There are those who have said that MIP was rammed down the throats of undergraduate members. I will agree that in some cases it was. (Thankfully, in Iota Phi Theta, it was not. There was much internal dialogue before we adopted MIP. And this was BEFORE our membership in the NPHC was granted and before the NPHC organizations, at the time, did so.) Be that as it may, one simply cannot blow off the rules because one does not like them. That’s anarchy … and its also counter to everything one is ever taught about Brotherhood. One of the primary reasons for pledging was to learn to be a part of a team and subject to the penalties and benefits of the whole. To blatantly ignore the law of the land is tantamount to saying “I don’t care about Brotherhood – I want it MY way.” And speaking of “MY way”, how can you deny the bond of Brotherhood to a person who chose to do what they were told the “law of the land” was? How can you look down upon someone who “did the right thing” just because you want to “do the wrong thing?” (And oh, by the way, “The Right Thing” is defined by the rules of your organization – not what you want to do.) I have a lot more to say on this topic but I think this is enough for now. I invite all replies, rebuttals, and comments. ------------------ |
To IotaNet:
All I can say is Bravo! Bravo! Tell it like it is! |
IotaNet
I second that motion! Ice Cold Kreator |
The motion is carried!!!! All in favor, All opposed, any abstentions
I forgot if you were ready for the question. Dang Robert Rules!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Hugs and Doves |
The motion is carried!!!! All in favor, All opposed, any abstentions
I forgot if you were ready for the question. Dang Robert Rules!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Hugs and Doves |
VERY WELL SAID, MY BROTHER, VERY WELL SAID!!!
------------------ BE POSITIVE!!! |
IotaNet...
( http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif wow, i am talking to the Executive Director) i has read this whole thread twice and didn't know to put my thoughts into to words that wouldn't offend anyone...greek or non. but you said it. thank you and i totally agree. what people need to know, the greeks both BGLO and GLO have some kind of pledge process, where you learn... who your founders are, what they did, why they did it and the history over the years. learning that stuff takes weeks. getting you behind beat is now and days considered hazing...the days of the CENTURY CLUB are suppose to be gone (guys you know what that is) The question i am trying to understand what exactly is considered PAPER???? i've seen this word on this board. i've heard it used so much. i want a broken down jist of what being paper is. ya'll are tired of the convo, but i want to know... The reason why i ask this is.... would honorary members be considered paper?? those who are inducted on a regional or a national level. those who didn't pledge on the collegiate level. those you didn't have hemmed up in the corner making sure they know your grip. those who might have had a height in their career and was extended membership. i can name several people, but i won't for controversial reasons. but a number of basketball, football, politicans, authors, may not have gone through THEE pledge process and are now members. what do you think??? paper or what?? imagine a subway filled with fallen angels...i am the one nearest the third rail. |
Firtst I'd like to thank IotaNet for the enlightenment. The National Executive Director...WOW!!! Thank you.
Soror MamaBuddha: All of the examples you described in your post, to put it simply, would be referred to as "paper." I think the term originated with the idea that people who came in post '90, pretty much signed their name on a piece of "paper," attended x number of days of official ceremonies and activitied and ta-da...they are in the organization. They are _____'s on "paper." They are official member on "paper" meaning, according to Nationals, but that's it. I think the problem lies within individual chapter tradition. Often within the busy schedule of official intake activities, there isn't a focus on THAT PARTICULAR CHAPTER'S LOOOOOONG HISTORY..depending on charter date (LOOOONG may only be a few years or 77 years http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I think on a national level when considering the organization as a whole, we pledged XYZ Sorority NOT ___ chapter. BUT, there are those who feel very endeared towards their particular chapter as well. It is the link that bonds them to not only hundreds of thousands of women worldwide, but also hundreds of women wo attended X college from back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, etc...then of course the bond with immediate prophytes and L.S's. There are MANY people who do not want that aspect of XYZ Sorority, ____Chapter to be lost in the MIP shuffle. You can tell me my X (insert number of founders here) but can you tell me about X(insert number of charter members here) who chartered XYZ Sorority back in 19__ (insert year here) when this, that and the other thing was keeping us from even enrolling in ______ (insert college here)University/College. For some that type of information is very important and so when Sorors (yes, I do call women who go through MIP Sorors) know all of the history and the National songs, that's all well and good. But, again, many chapters have their own songs and traditions that have been passed down for decades. Sorors who come through ____Chapter who don't know those songs may be called "paper." For the record, I fully understand and support the MIP movement as a tool to better organize the processes of membership into our GLO's. I DO call Women who pledged through MIP Sorors and will continue to do so. I don't think it is fair to hold a grudge against women and men who come into the organization at a time when MIP is in effect. They had no choice in the matter. I KNOW this is real long, but I had to get it out. PEACE all [This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited September 01, 2000).] |
First let me say a big thank you to Iotanet. It is great to have someone from the national leadership on this board.
One thing that I always ask a bro when he starts talking that MIP stuff, is what have you done to help these individual not become paper? I mean there is sertain information that you simply will not get from MIP, have you taken it upon yourself to make sure that they are tight with thier info. I just had group/line/intake/whatever you want to call them come in. Now I made sure that these brothers knew everything that they should, becuase first and foremost, the represent my fraternity wherever they go. Secondly they represent my chapter, and I will not have someone out here claiming my chapter and not being able to answer a simply charge, or being caught out there and have to play 20 questions with someone who thinks that they are not frat. I think that it is incumbent on bras to make sure that new members are tight with thier info. MN |
MN...
That goes for the Sororities, well at least my sorority as well. It is OUR duty to make sure these NEOs are on the up and up. That is more important than debating if you are "worthy" or not. |
For all the bravos bravos, I'll keep it real if you didn't pledge you are not as respected as people who did. My opinions of those who didn't have been stated numerous times no need to restate them.
It is wonderful to hear from someone on a national board. If I am not mistaken, Iota Phi Theta was initially founded as a non-hazing fraternity by students who were older than the traditional college students and felt that some of the things the fraternities and sororities were doing did not fit there lifestyle. How do I know this, well my chapter is located at Morgan State University and if I am not mistaken that is the birthplace of Iota Phi Theta. I know the above statement is one of the stated reasons for Iota's founding, at least that is what was put in the yearbooks. Maybe, it was disinformation; if I am wrong I am sure someone will straighten me out. All that to say that historically Iota was a non-hazing fraternity and somewhere along the line that changed (again if I misstated something I got the information from yearbooks at Morgan). To change the general organizations rules back to what they were orginally is not as much of a stretch. Segregation was once the law of the land; yet it was a law that was wrong and many people fought to change it not simply accept that it was law. These people openly broke the rules because the rules were wrong. We as a people did not just sit by and follow the rules because as good Americans we should. I feel MIP is wrong and will voice that opinion for as long as I have lungs the voice it or fingers to type it. If something is wrong, it should be pointed out and MIP is wrong. I feel that as a brother it is my duty to point out when something is wrong. Sometimes, the right thing is not what the rules say is the right thing. [This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited September 02, 2000).] |
Heyyyyyyyyyyy! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif
Hold up! hold up!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Wait a minute, wait a minute!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif That post that says Blue Reign, was MY POST! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif The one right before 7BA... What tha freak is going on? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif There must be some tecnical difficulties going on! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif |
I am sorry, but how you can get from breaking the rules of a frat, to going against the laws of Jim Crow is well beyond me.
Now, I am with you on proclaiming the ills of MIP. I can't say as that I know very many people who actually like the damn thing. But to equate what we do to breaking the rules of segregation is just totally stupid. You are a college educated individual I would assume. How in the fugg can you let such crap come out of your mouth (keyboard). Now many of us break certain rules of our particular org. I have broken some, not proud of it, but you live and learn, plus it was what I wanted to do, but I would never equate what I did or do with sitting in a restaurant that wouldn't feed Blacks, or boycotting the bus, or any type of civil disobedience. Get a fugging life man. Damn, you done got my blood pressure up. While you are entitled to your opinion, that crap you just posted is stupid, and doesn't speak very well of you. So you propose that what your frat brother, Martin Luther King did, and what you do are one in the same huh? “I have been to the mountain top, and I whipped a Spinxman’s ass!” Folks, forgive the tone of my post, but this really boils my blood. I know people and have family members who were in the struggle, and I think that we as African Americans, as well as White America, owe these people a great deal of gratitude. How do you equate 400 years of oppression with beating someone’s ass is totaly beyond me. MN |
I think the problem with MIP is that too many people don't even give it a chance. When I joined Sigma Gamma Rho I was brought in through grad chapter because they were reactivating a dorment chapter. After I got in my sister and I went about learning about our history, songs, and traditions on our own. I will say that we missed some of the bonding sisters who are "on-line" experience. But that didn't make us throw our hands in the air and say the hell with it all. In fact, we made a concerted effort with our next two lines to encourage bonding between the girls. I even talked to some regional and national officers about this issue. What I learned was that the current MIP process wasn't the final version that was envisioned. Actually, it is a starting point from which a more user friendly system can be born. As far as not learning chapter traditions and songs, who's stopping them from learning? It certainly didn't stop me from learning them. And for the record, not only have I answered 3:00a.m. phone calls but have also gotten into my car to drive to another state(4 hour drive)to check up on a soror and her sister who is coming into the sorority. I think most animosity comes from people who came in "paper" and try to claim they were "hazed". The reason I said "hazed" and not "pledged" because you can come through MIP and still be "pledged". The girls I brought in could go through any question-answer session you put in front in them with flying colors. I don't try to front. I was brought in undergrad through a graduate chapter who followed MIP to the absolute letter and I have never gotten any beef from sorors, other greeks, or non-greeks. I know who I am and I love SGRho. I know all the names of the chapters in the state I came in and the state I live in now. Once you got that love and dedication to your organization nobody can tell you differently.
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Of course segregation is not the same as pledging, it is called a parallel. The parallel was in response to a statement by the Iota board member. Some rules are meant to be broken. MIP is a rule that is wrong.
I guess you are the type of person who happily grips up or yo yo's the 100 new kappas made through MIP at some campus. I am sure that is the way the founders of your fraternity wanted things. They wanted one line brother to not know the other. They wanted the line to not know much history of the chapter. They wanted anyone with a couple hundred dollars, decent grades, and some community service to be able to be a member of KAPSI. I am sure that MIP is what the founders wanted when they envisioned KAPSI correct. That is why MIP has been around since 1911 in your fraternity correct. For eighty nine years, people have been able to sign there name spend a weekend and then be a Kappa correct. This is called sarcasm Nupe. If MIP was what the founders wanted, it would have been all we know. I also know the founders would not have wanted anyone to die or be physical or mentally scarred for life for trying to become a brother. Those instances need to be dealt with on a case by case matter. Here is a parallel Nupe, people get involved in automobile accidents everyday and yet we still drive. As a matter of fact, it is safer to be a pledgee (even an underground pledgee) than it is to drive an automobile. A person is much more likely to be injured or killed while driving than they are while pledging. Should we get rid of cars? Of course not, cars are necessary part of life. Here is another parallel Nupe, they make the people dress the same. They make these students wake up early in the morning to workout. They make these students wear the same clothes for at least 3 hours a day. They make these students do drills where the sole purpose is for them to ram there body into another person. On one day of the week, they make these students perform in front of thousands of people. This abuse last a whole semester (sarcasm). If you have not figured out what I was talking about, it is football. There are thousands of more football injuries every year as compared to pledging injuries. Should we get rid of football all together,or maybe we should let the team who can sing the best song get seven points and whoever comes up with the most best songs wins. Of course, that is ridiculous. These people chose and choose to play a violent game. The administration of the rec councils, high schools, colleges, and professional teams just plan accordingly. Nobody, at least none I have ever seen, is forced to pledge; it is a choice. If they do not want it, the door is always there they can quit at any time. My belief is that fraternities are suppose to be more selective. You know the old saying many are chosen and few are frozen. I am sure that other NPHC fraternities and sororties have similar sayings. Fraternities are not suppose to be open to everyone. If they were like I said earlier we would not know anything but MIP. The founder's of our organizations did not want this, and since the founders did not want it; it is a rule that should be broken to go back to the orginial parallel. |
7BA94, that was the best and most cogent message that you have ever posted. I agree wholeheartedly Mr. Iotanet posts were right to a certain extent, but I think his viewpoint skewed the truthfulness of his remarks. The quote that I have the hardest time with is the one about not leaving the fraternities livelihood in the wisdom of 19 year olds. Almost all of our orgs were founded by 19 and 20 yr olds. It is safe to say that their wisdom created some awesome orgs. Also Mr Iotanet is basing his opinions based on legality and liability. But that does not answer the question as to whether a pledged member is better than a paper member. We all know that the member that is doing the work of the org is the best member. But eliminate that from the equation and what is your answer. Many paper members, especially on the alumni level, are the best workers. Why? Because they are trying so hard to prove their worthiness and these are their only moments to bond and learn the ways of the org and their new sisters. Previously, this took place during the pledge process. If paper members want to learn songs, history, chapter specifics, strolls, experience sisterhood, your best chance is to be as involved as possible. Paper members are simply trying harder.
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I need to break up my posts so as to not make them so long. These replies are directed at Iotanets post (I have similar credentials as you, though I am not a national officer)
1)While there was underground activity prior to MIP, never was it at such levels as now. Never was there the desire to break rules and disrespect the authority of national directives. This has been most harmful, as individuals and chapters have thought themselves to be bigger than the org. This is at the heart of the lawsuits. While not new, it has been excaserbated by MIP. 2)I took my oath under the same constitution and ritual as outlined and written by my founders in 1911. I don't give a bleep about any constitution written to serve the precepts of lawyers, insurance companies, lenders, and the NPHC (these are puppeteers driving the changes in each org, not the at-large membership) We didn't vote for any changes. Maybe Iota consulted its 10,000 members, but we were not conslted. 3)The definition of hazing has changed and we must comply but there are exceptions. Latino orgs pledge openly, so does the Pershing Rifles and other Greek Non-NPHC orgs. 4) The bond of brotherhood is built on blood, sweat, and tears; of common goals and purposes built upon a connection attained from striving together to meet those goals. Not a checkbook or a written test. MIP is and has proven to be poor and inadequate replacement for pledging. The enmity and division that it has created amongst each org is detrimental and debilitating. This conversation (paper vs. real) did not exist prior to MIP. Lastly, I am not a hazer, don't believe in it and not one of the 100 or so pledgees that I have brought into the folds can ever say that I did anything harmful or demeaning to them, yet all have sweated and some have cried in trying to reach the brotherhood. All have thanked me for making them the right way and giving them a true appreciation of the rights and priveleges that come with EARNING your membership. |
Doggystyle82,
I totally agree with you on the Pan Hellenic thing. MIP is a travesty, and there have been more instances of underground pledging since it's inception. I wasn't in the Bond at the time, but from what I understand, it was sorta rammed down the throat of not just Undergrads, but grads as well. I would have to disagree though with the whole "paper vs. pledge" thing coming about because of MIP. This has been around for a long time. I know brothers who pledged back in the 70's who tell me that this is an issue that is not new, and didn't come about because of MIP. Granted it has made it worse. But everyone thinks that they pledged harder than everyone else. You "Sons of Blood and Thunder", say that you pledge the hardest, the Spinxmen think that they pledge the hardest, and the Sigmas think the same. My thing is, we get bogged down in this "who pledged harder", My bloody xyz chapter pledged the hardest, we was on line for 12 weeks, and you were on for 6 so I pledged harder than you, that's silly to me. I would like to create subject where everyone can tell what they have done to change the current MIP process. Who have you contacted at Nationals, what petition has your name and membership number on it. What proposal have you written up. That's my thing. We all agree that MIP is not working. I just get tired of us complaining about it, and not doing anything to change it. To my Ice Cold brother, There are some things that we agree on such as that MIP is wrong. I appreciate you carnifying your words on pledging/the civil rights struggle. And to answer your question, no I don't grip up just anyone. I don't grip anyone whom I don't know. To me my grip is very special, and I reserve it for those brothers whom I know and love. I don't think that you can tell me what my founders wanted and what they didn't any more than I can. Although I am in possession of papers dating back the early 20's and 30's in which founders and members of my great Klan speak about paddling, and other various activities associated with pledging. Let's just say, that I also believe that they wouldn't be too happy with this MIP thing either. But I also think that they would be appalled at some of the practices that were done in the name of Kappa. As far as Kappa not being open to everyone, that is true. Just because you have the money, doesn't mean that you should gain entrance. This is precisely why I am very vocal about intake and whom we bring into our beloved Bond. If I don't think that you will be an asset to my frat, or my chapter, you don't get my vote (period). Being a member of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc. is a privilege and a honor, not an entitlement. MN "Many are called, but few are chosen." |
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It is one thing to get into a BGLO, but what happens after??? When I went over in undergrad, and progressed on to an alumnae chapter and happened to meet other sorors in my age and over, after the hug I would ask what chapter they are affiliated with? Some gave me chapter names, others related reasons why they have not joined an alumnae chapter, so I then extended an invitation to visit our chapter. It saddens me to think that you would bend over sideways, backwards, and financially to be a part of the process to discard it. Help comes through all shapes and forms either through helping with community service activities or becoming a financial member. |
MandingoNupe (isn't that name an oxymoron?, just joking): Before MIP, everyone knew that Omegas pledged the hardest (but it is relative for each org). But that is immaterial. It was never at the level of paper vs real like now. BTW, I have been active in trying to reform our intake process and thankfully, as a result of our last Conclave, a change is a coming. Hallelujah!!!
MONI 93: this may come as a shock to you, but alot of people who pledge undergrad do not pledge to be active in an alumni chapter. Some people like their undergrad chapter, some people like the undergrad lifestyle, some people like the bonding, some people do their community service elsewhere, some still affiliate with their org outside of chapter meetings, some do not like the politics of the alumni chapter, some do not like the lack of fraternal spirit on the grad level (strictly business). Some don't like having to work or abide paper members. Most importantly, others have lifestyle, family, or financial coommittments that preclude them from being as active as they would like. Whatever the reason for inactivity, one should ALWAYS remain FINANCIAL, represent their org well, and maintain their love and respect for the precepts of their letters. [This message has been edited by DoggyStyle82 (edited September 05, 2000).] |
I will show deference to my Omega brother becuase he is old, uh, I mean becuase he is older and wiser than me. (Just jokes man). But on the real, you touch upon a point. If the only reason that a person joins is for the bonding and the spirit that is felt on Undergrad level, then what is the purpose? Hell I got that on the grad level. If we look at it from that standpoint, then why not just abolish the grad chapter, and let it only be an undergrad thing.
So I am a Kappa, Omega, Sigma, Alpha, Iota in udergrad, but when I graduate, I am just another brother. I really can't get with that. I will agree with you though on the politics of the grad chapter. Yeah, in many respects it is like a buisness. I trully hate this aspect of it, and I actually hold office in my chapter. While I hate the politics, I know that we all should have a larger purpose in mind, and that is the well being of our frat first, and then that of our chapter. While I got mad luv for my chapter, and will throw blows in the name of my chapter, I know that first and foremost, I joined Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc. I don't knock a brother who is not in a chapter if he is doing something positive to uphold the principles of our frat, but one thing that I do hate is when someone uses the excuse of politics, or I don't like them brothers, or I ain't got time. Excuses are tools of incompetence, blah, blah, blah, you know the rest. Now right after college, allot of brothers are trying to get themselves together, and do their thing, kool, but after a certain period, you really need to be active in some fashion. Some of the best brothers I know, aren't active in a chapter, but are still working in the kommunity, and I gotta respect that. Now my frat, as I believe all the others could not exist without the grad chapters, becuase that is where the leadership is drawn from, and that is where most of the financial backbone comes from. We also couldn't exist without the undergrad, becuase most of our members come in through the undergrad. So witout each of the two working together, all frats would perish. If we could get half of the membership to be active and financial, my god, imagine what a force all of our organizations could weild. I want all frats and sorror. to be up and running when my kids (when I find an SGRho to marry me, I will have some), get to college and they have the opportunity to join. Of course if my son goes anything but KAPsi, I will dissown him, beat him, and feed him to the dogs, but you get the picture. Fratenally Yours MN P.S. Leave my name alone, I have worked long and hard to get this name. |
See Nupe, its all Greek luv. But I was not excusing inactive members from their sworn obligations. Its just that I don't like to beat on them because life/maturity or immaturity impeded them. Most people fall away those first few years after undergrad when they are getting themselves involved in their professions, grad school, getting married, or roadtripping endlessly. Grad chapter business doesn't really interest them at the moment. The key is to keep them involved before they go adrift.
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