It's Friday morning and there isn't enough caffeine in the world. I'm surprised anyone can understand me this morning.

Yes, the two seals were different.

The "original" seal on his shingle was red; it looked much like the one shown in the picture I linked: three stars, clasped hands and the Greek letters of his chapter all in a triangle, surrounded by a circle that said (I think) "Davidson College, Phi Alpha of Beta Theta Pi."

The seal that he received on his Fraternal Fifty was gold with the Beta Coat-of-Arms in the center and "The Great Seal of Beta Theta Pi * 1839 *" in the surrounding circle.

Gotcha! I am two cups into the day, and I'm still having a hard time.

Back in the day (early/mid 1800's), chapters probably created their own seals, however that is not the case today. I am sure that when we have new chapters come on board, their info. is copied into a template of some sort and then bam, they have their own chapter seal. I will have to check mine when I get home tonight....

That is how I would assume it would work.

I'll be interested to hear what you find on your shingle.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Firehouse
[B]
DKE has the largest endowment;

==================

Oh, you meant financial endowment? Well, that too I suppose.

Question, what is this shingle that everyone keeps on talking about? I keep on picturing shingles like on a roof lol.

A membership certificate such as one might frame and hang on the wall. In many fraternities, these are called "shingles."

Curious to know what you have that would back that up? Numbers, articles, hearsay...etc.?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dekeguy
[B]

I beleive he was being humorous, as in "the male endowment". :D

Its not a "fight." They are very good friends, and fellow trustees on our Endowment Fund.

They usually contribute in a very similar way. When one gets an idea, he usually leads with that idea. For example, one started our leadership school in Cabo (http://www.CaboAlpha.com/)

The other (who has a Phd in Economics) recently came up with a very complicated investment vehicle, and donated over $4 million to support it.

My understanding is that the top three are:
1) Phi Kappa Psi (almost $19 million)
2) Sigma Chi (just over $18 million)
3) Beta Theta Pi (over $13 million)

That information is 8 months old, so things could have changed.

How are you guys coming up with these numbers curiously?

I got these numbers from the Executive Director of Phi Psi's Endowment Fund. Its easy for any fraternity professional to get these numbers because they all share this information through various organizations.

its true... Phi Sigs at IU have only been here for like 5 years and WE'RE already one of the most prominent phi sig chapters nationwide

?:confused: ?

Why would you say 'they' if you are speaking of your own chapter? Thats kinda wierd. Its like you are either alumni, didnt connect with your own brothers or are just phrasing it that way to make your chapter seem badass.

i speak in the 3rd person....


ha not really...i meant WE'RE......either way, nationally, we suck

You dont suck. I've heard of your fraternity. If I hadn't, then you'd suck.

Phi Sig has an outstanding chapter at Florida State: large membership, strong in sports, well thought-of by sororities.

The seal on the shingle
 

One my shingle, i have the beta seal, but my chapter name is around it

LXA, 188 Chapters and 20 Colonies.

Largest Food Drive= Great North American Food Drive.
Collected this year almost 3 Million lbs. of food for charities.

We dont claim to be the oldest, we ARE, founded in 1400 in bologna

How many orgs were founded back in the 10th century with the Masons?

You guys sure do punch below the belt. Ouch.

-Rudey

Anyone have any update numbers?

I've read that some many times, and every time I call BS.

All Greeks orgs are based on prior societies. Going by your logic we can all claim to be founded hundreds if not over a thousand years ago.

You are incorrect. All greek orgs are not necessarily based on prior societies. You have no basis to speculate about the history of an Order that you aren't a member of.

Please don't comment on our history, I will extend the same courtesy for you.

Every fraternity/sorority has roots leading somewhere. If that is Italy back in the 1500's, great. If it's the Freemasons, great. If it's Phi Beta Kappa or the Flat Hat Club, great.....but, anyone can trace their respective history as far back as they want, if they choose to.

Does Kappa Sigma still have a chapter in Italy? Did they ever?

Just curious.

I am not sure if You know to much about History of any Greek Groups other than Your own, but I suggest that You look at Your own Ritual and think about what You just posted.

I know nothing of KS Ritual and I am sure vice versa.

I suggest You contact KSIGkid!

Listen stongly to Him, He is a wise KS Brother!:cool:

Oh, LXA was Taken from King Rennee of Anjou of France and His beleifes along with I am sure that of Free Masonary as many were for the fact that many memebers were part of Free Masonary.

You really need to check Your facts first!

ZZ-kai-
I can appreciate your curiosity. However, that is estoteric information to which only Brothers of Kappa Sigma are privy.

It is not My Curosity but trying to point a fact!

Live and learn!

Tom,
While I value your opinion regarding cigars, and enjoy reading some of your stories, I'll skip your advice regarding my Fraternity. GLO history is a passionate interest of mine, and I do know quite a bit on the subject. Referring to group's history as "BS" isn't something that I consider to be gentlemanly, so I spoke up.

Even after careful reading, I'm not sure that I understand your warning or question or whatever it was. Would you please rephrase it?

Something like this, I'd assume:

Kappa Sigma Fraternity was originally founded as a secret society of students at the University of Bologna in the year 1400. The group was founded by Manuel Chrysoloras, a Greek scholar, who taught at the University. In that day of city-states, the group's initial purpose was mutual protection of its members against physical attack and robbery by the unscrupulous governor of the city, Baldassare Cossa. In 1400, Chrysoloras and his five disciples formed a society for mutual protection which inspired the Ritual and beliefs of modern day Kappa Sigma.

I am not giving any advice about Your Fraternity but saying that Your Fraternity more than likely has some Relegious conotations of some back ground where by they relate to said back ground.

I am always interested in GLO programs and History, but one of the best on Site is WPTW who has many Rituals but keep them to Him self.

KSigKid KapSigCub UTKappaSig21
 

Brothers,

Please check your PM.

Re: KSigKid KapSigCub UTKappaSig21
 

Mr Dickson, can I get in on the scolding PMs as well?

Thanks!

I'm sure this question will be never answered...but I'm still curious if anyone has any official information on the GLO ranks of:

- The number of total initiatiates

- The number of current undergraduates

- The number of chapters


I've seen various sources of information but they all seem to vary. The general idea that shines through is that the five largest houses are: Sigma Chi, SAE, TKE, SigEp, and Lambda Chi.

Anyone have anything to prove differently?

I think you're really barking up the wrong tree here. While I generally agree that the largest fraternities on a given campus are usually the best, that same model doesn't hold true when you're comoparing one national to another. You'd have to have some expereince with the personalities of the different fraternities to understand that.
Take a look, for instance, at Beta Theta Pi and Kappa Alpha Order (I'm not a member of either one). Neither of those are as large as the ones you listed, yet I think among people who are familiar with national fraternities, you'll find that both Beta and KA are more prestigeous than maybe one or two of the ones you cite.
Numbers are tricky. Sig Ep says it is the largest national fraternity, and that's true because they they base that on the fact that they have the largest number of undergraduates at any one time. But...the TKEs have the largest number of chapters, the SAEs have the largest number of alumni, the Pikes have the largest average chapter size...and none of it means much. Lambda Chi, as a national, has a very different personality than, say, Sigma Chi. Who's best? It depends on your frame of reference.
I know...you're only asking about the numbers. But that doesn't mask the underlying question of who's superior and who's inferior.

Not exactly, because I was only asking for statistics for my own benefit. Frankly I think my GLO is the best and that's not because of numbers. No one would ever be willing to admit that their house is any less of a fraternity than the next house. How the heck would you judge who's "best"?

You cited some statistics, but gave nothing to back them up. You don't know how many different variations of those statistics I've heard. I would like something that has some evidence behind it.

Does the NIC keep stats?

.."nothing to back them up..."
Sorry, check the Fraternitiy Executives Association. I included a link below to their website, but your national office will have copies of all their reports and surveys - that's where all these comparisons come from. The FEA has taken detailed surveys of its member fraternities for decades. I used to be on our national staff and I'm familiar with the reports - at least from the time I was there.
The NIC isn't much help, plus some of the most prominent national fraternities are no longer members. It's ironic that the president of the FEA is a Phi Delt yet Phi Delt is no longer a member of NIC. The CFEA is a very collegial organization and very cooperative.
http://www.fea-inc.org/index.shtml

Kappa Sigma established the first chapter at the University of Bologna in 1400 and spread across Europe. William Grigsby McCormick, one of the American founders, traveled to Europe in the mid 1800s and was taught about the fraternity by one of it's members, who encouraged him to establish a chapter in America because the fraternity had almost disappeared in Europe. A clay jug with the letters on it dating back to the 1400s was found about 20 years ago in a collection of Italian pottery. I dont believe there are any chapters in Europe today.