i guess i'm stuck, then. subconsciously.

Let's put it this way. Despite the many friends I have of very various ethnicities, I still get shown disrespect from preppy rich white folks who don't think I deserve to be amongst them and their kind because I didn't grow up with the same advantages and oppotunities they did (ie, I didn't have daddy's money), as well as from Filipinos who don't accept me because my interests and personality are completely different.

It's not ALL white people or ALL Asians, though living at frat row, I see it from a lot more white folks....

I think another aspect of the whole interacial dating thing is that as Asian-Americans we don't see many Asian ideals of beauty in American media. We usually see the white ideal of beauty and that becomes ingrained in us...that we should strive to look like that and that we should look for partners like that. I'm definitely very white-washed, even in my taste in men. I can identify good-looking Asian guys, but they don't do anything for me. I'm into white guys. And I wonder how much of that is culturally influenced. If I had grown up in Asia, would I still feel the same way? Or would I like Asian guys but not white guys?

An example of a dragon lady would be like any role that Lucy Liu has ever played. Like in Charlie's Angels, she's a vixen but she dates a white guy and doesn't give the Asian guy a second glance.

I find it hard to seriously date other "white-washed" Chinese guys because once their parents find out that their son is dating Chinese girl, their standards and expectations change. They expect you to be more "culturally Chinese", and more "aware" of issues in the old country. In other words, they expect you to be "Chinese." My parents are like that too. They have different standards once it comes to dating Chinese and non-Chinese guys.

Oh if it sounded like I was blanketing all white people who had that fortunate upbringing, then I'm sorry for misinterpeting.

Believe me, I have plenty of "preppy rich white" friends in many diff facets of my life. My big brother's family happend to be the richest in his town. The difference is, just like you said, how they treat people who weren't raised that way, like myself.

Ironically, this mostly pertains to the greek life here..... Most non-greeks who come from a well-off famioly I know aren't like that, as a matter of fact.

DeltaSigStan/Taualumna,

no matter what You say, it seems strarang21 and dstchaos will have a rebuttle by calling people idiots or degrading anyone they dont care for or have the same beleifs.

But, there are others on GC who enjoy "Discussing" the different GLOs and Learning what many do not know, but want to act like they do.

Stan/Taualumna, I would enjoy anytime sitting with You over a toddy!:D :)

Tom, I've found DST and starangs info on this topic very intriguing, and has shed new light on my view of the "hardships" and stereotypes of Asian Americans.

You're welcome to insert an opinion as long as you can back it up at least with personal experience. I've learned Earpspeak, so I'm pretty sure I can translate.

Stan, the invite for a TODDY Still stands!:)

PM Me and I will give You Jon Sagaras LXA Web site. He has done a heck of a job!

I dont mind people asking about Information of any Greeks, but when it becomes degrading, then I have a problem.

I feel I have one of the finest Greek Organizations, but I also know There are many others who feel the same about thiers and they are right!:cool:

When did any Greek Organization become bad?

;)

You know nothing about a subject matter yet you ALWAYS want to insert your unfounded and ridiculously-expressed opinion. That's idiotic and degrading to intellectual discourse.

The only person who got called out for that in this thread is YOU. The rest of us are having healthy dialogue and debate. Get over it.

Um.... no one called anyone an idiot in this debate. In case you missed it, there is a very interesting social scientific discussion going on here. No one has bashed anyone, either individually or as a group.:confused:

Really, Amazing?:rolleyes:

Maybe it because I have read to many of Your Anti-Posts.

Yes, when You Both Post something Posotive, I can agree with, I will be more than happy to do the same.

But, to degrade as Your mental Attitude, then I can disagree with and speak My mind and peace/piece.:)

Fair or not?

If you and anothers want to be posoitive, that would be great!:cool:

Get over it.

I have nothing against you when you say something that makes sense and is well-supported.

So, stop following starang21 and me around and typing dumb stuff aimed at us, just for the hell of it.

Back to the topic at hand.....

I hope I am not offending, however due to my career choice, Molecular Biology, I interact with many Asian populations. As a result, I have learned a miniscule amount of what is being discussed here. Moreover, due to my current residence, there is a HUGE Asian population--which I think is a WONDERFUL thing to have in a city...

As far as the "model minority" stereotype--and I deplore stereotypes

In my city, this is the FIRST time I have EVER seen that many Asians actually stand up and say, "HEY, we have been discriminated against, dammit!!!" And historically, they have been and are in some ways that I do not quite understand from their perspective (and due to my own ignorance) they are right now.

But what shocked me more than anything else was when I had a bite at a Cantonese diner, the young ladies I was eating with, told me that their parents told them that they could NEVER speak in their native tongue to ANYONE in public--especially, like at a wedding!!! :eek: They said that they would offend the elders by being too American(ized)...

I don't know about y'all, but that would break my heart if I was ever told that... I guess the closest I could relate it to, is this "light skinned/dark skinned", "good hair/nappy hair" thing that uneducated black folks ally themselves with... It's like all consuming... DAYUM!!! :rolleyes:

One thing I see that AGLO's might want to consider, including forming a Asian Greek Alliance, is not only incorporate, but also set aside specific activities that are strongly needed in the Asian college student community and beyond... I don't know what brings Asian groups together in unity... And I HATE lumping... Because fortunately, in the United States, at the time that the most Asian population became US citizens, each ethnic group was considered and not junked all up together like African Americans as a part of my history...

I dunno, but the "word on the street" where I live is that most Asian folks know there are different ethnic populations, but they all need one unified voice together for their rights to be heard... So in some ways they are "lumping together" (i.e. Chinese with Koreans with Filipinos with SE Asians, etc.) out of necessity--at least in my city...

In some ways, it works... In other ways... Well, I don't know or I don't understand and maybe I will never understand...

sidebar: I don't know about y'all ladies, but I think Jet Li is fizzine... I don't know what it is about him that I like, but he is very attractive to me... So, if y'all don't want him, I'll be more than happy to take him off y'all's hand... ;) And so is John Lone as well as Chow Yun Phat... Oh wait, I'm married, DAYUM!!! /sidebar

:confused: Are you saying that they can't speak English or can't speak Chinese (or other Asian language)?

I don't really know if it's really POSSIBLE to have a united Asian force because socio-economic levels vary so greatly. In Toronto, you have HK Chinese who are essentially upper middle class with a proper Catholic school education in Hong Kong and Canadian born/raised children who are top students in prep schools or highly academic public high schools. On the other hand you have newly arrived immigrants from mainland China or Vietnam who are trying very hard to make ends meet. You also have everything in between. I don't really see what these people have in common at all!

That they could not speak the Cantonese dialect of Chinese in a public setting--since these ladies were of Cantonese descent (if I am describing it properly)...

Well, I am seeing in my city is a unification of all those who are college educated... Folks that do not attend college are not a part of that "unity". But, folks that do, there may be some pockets here and there, but they are coming together more visibly so... That's just my observation... I'm on the West Coast.

WEIRD. I would have thought that the ancestors would be offended that they WERE speaking English and only English.


I haven't really seen this here, but my mom really isn't in the know for these sorts of things and most of the Asians I know are either completely white-washed like myself or too hip to care.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out where that happened. This is a great discussion and very enlightening.

Ditto. That seems backwards to me. Not wanting to sound supid, but is Cantonese considered the "Americanized" version of the traditional Chinese language?

So I'm new to this discussion, but my understanding is that Cantonese is a widely spoken Southern Chinese language/dialect. It's different from other dialects spoken thoughout China, but is a common dialect people share in southern regions, though any one region generally has it's own dialect (true in the northern regions as well, from what I understand).

I grew up with a number of Asian Americans, and this is what I remember them telling me.

Oncelurked is correct. Cantonese is spoken in the southern parts of China and in Hong Kong (HK is a special adminitrative region, so while they're part of China, they also have their own government.) Jacky Chan, for example, primarily acts in Cantonese movies.

The offical language in China is Mandarin. It's a little more sophisticated and pretty-sounding than Cantonese IMHO. Taiwan is also Mandarin speaking. The proper Beijing accent is very clipped (again MHO) and the Taiwanese accent is softer.

Thanks. Now that prohibition of speaking Cantonese in public is even more confusing to me.

What's even harder about categorizng "Asians" is Koreans, Chinese, Japanese; all three in themselves are different in so many ways yet blanketed...some people don't even realize how much different Filipinos, Indonesians, Malaysians and the rest of SouthEast Asia....

I get offended when people don't acknowledge such differences or pretend it doesn't matter.

I witnessed a dialogue between a couple of white male college students and a Korean female college student. They were asking her if another Asian student was Korean, Chinese, or Japanese. She giggled, shrugged, and said "I don't know...I can't really tell the difference...oh well."

Is this common or is it possible that this young lady thought it was cute and cool to seemingly distance herself?

Maybe she honestly couldn't tell the difference. Can YOU tell the difference between African-Americans descended from slaves and Afro-Carribeans (and that is just in appearance, not accents)?

This is a loaded comparison that I wish you had not made.

African-Americans and Afro-Carribeans are BOTH descendents of slavery. Carribeans have Carribean accents (either strong or very slight) whereas African-Americans, who are born and raised in America, do not. Need I go on?

ETA: But, many of us purposely don't attempt to make the huge distinction between African-Americans and people of the African diaspora elsewhere.

Maybe this young lady did not REALLY know the difference. So, the assumed questions behind that assumption is "is that common" and/or "did she think it was cool and cute to seemingly distance herself?"

I'd think it's more common for those born here than those from abroad. Personally, I find it easier to distinguish between cultures in women than in men because there is more variety in dress. I can pick out Hong Kong born Chinese and Canadian born Chinese about 60-70% of the time. Same with Koreans (in my experience, Korean women tend to wear A LOT of make up).

Are you saying that all Asian groups look the same?

For people who have some "common" Haitian or Nigerian facial traits, for example, I can generally distinguish these individuals from African-Americans. This person could still be born in America, so the comparison to Asian groups is faulty, in my opinion.

I argue that there are more distinguishing visual traits between Asian groups than there are between African-Americans and our brothers and sistas elsewhere.

Gotcha.

LOL!

I was thinking more along the lines of distinctive facial features. Not markers such as make-up and style of dress.

I don't really know if it's all that easy. Maybe you just have the "vibe." I either ask or look at the person's last name.

I'm Chinese, but I've been mistaken for Vietnamese and Filipina many times. And 99% of the time, it's from members of Vietnamese and Filipino communities.

I can tell the difference between immigrants from different parts of Africa. There are distinct facial characteristics and well as body types. So I don't think it was an unfair question.

It's a bit easier to tell since multigeneration African Americans are very mixed.

It's harder when it comes to Asians because they're less mixed.

This is an awesome discussion topic!!!

Ok, on Cantonese...Cantonese has 9 tones. Tones are the way you say a word (ie, do you raise your pitch at the end of the word, lower it, in the middle lower it, etc)

Mandarin has 4 tones (5 if you count neutral tone). They both use the same writing system. Today, in China, they use a simplified writing system that was developed in the 20th century during the Republic of China Era and in the beginning of the People's Republic Era.

Taiwan (the relocated Republic of China Government) uses Traditional Chinese in writing. Additionally, there is also a Taiwanese dialect that is spoken as well. However, the government is trying to phase that out, which is causing a huge uproar.

Ok, on Asian Greeks...Asian Greeks do have specific philanthropies though, although mine does not have a specific one. As for incorporation, we are incorporated, but I'm not sure where..I'll have to ask my Nationals. :D

Going along with what SOPi Jawbreaker said...many AGLOs are regional. Some are expanding quickly(PDPsi, SYZ, KPL, aKDPhi, LPhiE, and maybe SOPi..not sure) while others are not(I can post info on this later if people want).

On Asian Groupings...Asian cultures do differ a lot from culture to culture. Grant it, a lot of the culture does have similarities, but that doesn't mean everyone gets along perfectly. For example, there is still animosity between the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese in some shape or form usually (resulting from WWII and before...ie Rape of Nanking(1937) and Occupation of Korea(WWII). For me personally, I can tell different Asian groups apart to an extent. It takes a LOT of practice though. Unlike the African American population, which was mostly forced into coming to the US, a lot of the Asian Population is immigrant in nature, and therefore the distinct cultures are maintained much more than the cultural genocide that occurred during the Slavery period(and after) in American History.

Right now, you see communities of different Asian cultures in the US. For example, a strong Korean population in souther MD, or Chinatowns, Koreatowns, etc.

AGLOs right now are very diverse in that they encompass all sorts of Asian Cultures. My pledge brothers were: 1 Taiwanese; 1 South Indian(Tamil); 1 Korean; 1 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Polish, 1/2 Korean; and me(Scottish, French, English). So, you do see a lot of diversity in the Asian Greek community. The Growth of AGLOs is enormoues though(relatively). PDPsi is growing at the rate of about 2 chapters a year.

Oh, SOPi Jawbreaker...do you know Camilla? And are you coming to the party at Fur(in DC) on April 9th(it's PDPsi and SOPi)

Peace!
-Nate

damn, i missed a lot.

L.O.C.K.

I'm pretty sure that Hong Kong does not use simplified form. The island isn't supposed to change fully into mainland rule until 2047 so things are supposed to remain as they were prior to the handover.

Yeah, you're right. When I meant China, I was referring to the mainland and not the Special Autonomous Regions (HK & Macau)

-Nate

We're generally very mixed because of the largely nonconsensual white men/black women relations of generations ago. Similar applies to many individuals of the African diaspora from Africa and South America. This isn't always obvious based on skin complexion or hair texture, though. Moreover, there are many African Americans who have "common" African and South American facial features but they are unaware of their origins (common for people who are forceably alienated from their deep ancestry). This is why many African Americans have used these "common" features and other markers to trace their roots back to Africa.

In regards to your revelation (this post), this is why I thought your comparison/question was interesting. It is actually easier to distinquish between "Asian groups" if "they" are less mixed.

I do believe there is a website or at least one was created for use in a study and was taken down. I will try to find it and see what I come up with.