I understand what you are saying. Polluted may be a little harsh.

The BMP is a great program. Traditional ways of running the fraternity are also great. I believe the tension lies in the way that the fraternity was gone about instilling the BMP into our chapters. When we go to conclave, we snicker at the BMP chapters. Why? Because we are proud to be traditional.

As you can see, this creates an internal means of competition. Sure we are all SigEps, but some are traditional, and some are BMP.

For those chapters that were struggling, BMP was a God sent present. For those chapters such as ours, we really don't need the BMP to be successful. Will this hurt our chances at getting a BUC cup? Therein lies the question. Politics get involved in traditional vs BMP and gues who wins?

So there you have it. If you read some posts on this forum, you will see that the stereotype is that traditional chapters haze to motivate. Sure, everyone hazes. If you tell your new members to wear a red shirt on Monday, that is hazing. The definition of hazing is not just physical abuse. The stereotype of hazing gives traditional chapters a bad wrap. So, nationals comes up with this great plan to reduce hazing, increase funding, and get the press off our back. We also get an insurance cut.

So, like I said, the BMP is a great concept for today's world. Worldly dynamics and the law have greatly influenced the way we conduct ourselves. I don't necessarly agree with physical hazing, but if you don't work for something, how can you be proud of it? Research shows that individuals who go through intense physical and mental abuse (military) are more patriotic of their organization than someone who just pays money to be a member.

The thing I liked about my BMP experience was that I worked for my goals, but they were my goals and not other people's. The problem is that the BMP is not always run the way it was designed. When I was in the Phi challenge, my mentor took me aside and said "make three outlandish goals and complete them before the end of the semester" - I did, and I completed them, and I was damn proud. But that's me - everyone is different, and that's why its ok to have different systems.

I think, strictly followed, pledging is the best system. But we're human, and humans are stupid and don't follow things strictly. While the perfect pledge system is better than the perfect BMP, pledging with human error is WAY more dangerous than BMP with human error. HQ "pushing" the BMP is all risk factor, and knowing their audience. Some of us can handle the responsibilities of a pledging program, but more than most have proven that they can't.

It's funny - there's such a schism between BMP and traditional, but there isn't between any of our other divisions. (Say, public and private schools?). I travel to schools for a living, and everyone everywhere gives me crap for going to Columbia as an undergrad. But SigEps are the only people who look past that, and then give me crap for being BMP. :-)

bmp is working for me
 

i am currently a sigma in a bmp chapter and i am seeing only good things so far. i live in the house and did so about a month before the changeover to bmp so i got to see both. where traditional has its pros, bmp stresses one of the six ideal traits of a sig ep, accountability. it holds everyone accountable, not just the "pledges" but older members too. at the beginning of this semester we also had a "chapter review" like another poster did where we eliminated the dead weight in our chapter. since then we have been much better off. we no longer have to pull the slack for the older members who were cheating us by not participating. myself and my 20 member, new member class, are tight as hell. we know balanced man inside and out and are making it work. i respect the traditional chapters but we need to make sure we do not forget, we are all sig eps regardless.

Traditional v. BMP
 

To say that one aspect of being traditional is better than being BMP is the wrong way to look at things. We should look at is as just being a Sig Ep, because when it all comes down to it that is what we are, and we are the best of the best!
Although, with everything there are good things and bad things that come out of new ideas; when trying to curtail the effects of hazing and the risk management that goes along with it, this is the pendulum swinging back and forth.
We are a traditional chapter with pledges, yet we do not haze. We teach our new members the basic ideals of Sig Ep, yet we are able to see if they are going to make a good brother or not, without giving away our ritual or parts of our ritual to them. This time period is in the same concept of starting a new job and being on a prohibition period. They want to see that you are a team player, before they give you all the benefits of employment. There is a famous quote and it goes like this "YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO FOLLOW BEFORE YOU CAN LEAD." Look at the brothers like Bill Mendenhall, who saw the ritual in one sitting like the rest of his traditional brothers, and look at the positive effect it had on him. He wrote one of the most inspiring letters about Sig Ep that anyone has ever written.
I understand that times change, but I also think we need to do what is best for Sig Ep. I have a football shirt from high school, and it is states that, "THINGS ARE BETTER OFF EARNED THAN GIVEN, BECAUSE IT MEANS MORE IN THE END, WHEN THE BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS HAVE ALL DRIED UP." Sig Ep is the best thing in the world, but if we let everyone in the world in without "testing" them, then we are letting Sig Ep fall with the rest of the Fraternities. Remember we are the best Fraternity; we take the cream of the crop, not what is left in the barrel.

Here's my take on the whole issue, short and sweet,

Traditional chapters are an in-group, as are BMP chapters, the differences are obvious, what is not however are the similarities. What nationals has not done, is to educate the two of them together, about each other, which would solve many problems. Carlson's are run from a strict BMP standpoint which is detrimental to traditional chapter development, which should also be included. Every Carlson I have been to, I have been asked about BMP, and I always tell it how it is, not that much different from traditional. Don’t get me wrong, I know the differences exist and are significant in some ways, but many aspects are the same, big brothers still exist here, along with making paddles, having pledge classes, and doing interviews with older brothers and chores around the house. The biggest thing I have seen is that most traditional chapters are afraid that BMP chapters are letting in any joe blow that walks off the street and signs up. This again is not true, as the "pledge period" if you will is often significantly longer than traditional chapters, as most members who rush in august don't become initiated until March or April. On another note, the big issue I have heard is about our ceremonies...and rest assured that any member who does not deserve to, is never revealed the secrets of Sigma Phi Epsilon. With that being said, I am applying for a position with nationals when my stay here at USF is done, and the one thing I want to accomplish is to show people the new future of SigEp chapters, not strict balanced man, as it loses some of the pledging prestige, I agree, but rather a blend of balanced man and traditional aspects, incorporating the best of both worlds if you will, which is where I believe the future of this fraternity is headed. The development process of the BMP is unparalleled, as many other national organizations are adopting programs similar to it. Again, SigEp has set the precedence in a positive fashion. If you wish to disagree I would enjoy debating about it, but in the end, we all agree on one thing:

"I believe in this fraternity because it would have me strive in every way to live up to the high principles for which it stands. These are VIRTUE, DILIGENCE, and BROTHERLY LOVE." so when it all comes down to it, we all agree on the same thing, so let us be happy with that at least.

So maybe it wasnt short, sorry

The biggest difference i have noted is the formation of the chapter itself within the two different programs. I am from a Balanced Man chapter and at times i like it and at times i dont. The most notable differences i have noticed is the way new members are treated, in balanced man at ours for example on the first meeting you get to vote if there was one. Whereas in our neighboring chapter which is traditional, you have to pledge and earn your keep there. I like the ideals of the balanced man and if it is ran properly it is an amazing system, however in our case, the E.C. is not what it should be and therefore can not run a BMP chapter the way it should be ran and it turns into a mess. A strong VP of Member Development is ESSENTIAL for a BMP to work the way it needs to and it is a chapter wide effort. But it must be a great program or else other fraternities would not turn to us for advice on how to work a program like that in their fraternities (like S gAy E). SigEp -holla.

HFF,
490

Everyone speaks about how well their chapter is doing after being converted to BMP. My chapter has always been a traditional chapter and we do everything Balanced Man Chapters do except we have a new member education period. I obviously won't get into that but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean. My point here is that we are the biggest chapter at our school, we have the highest GPA, we do the most community service, we have many brothers in our chapter in leadership positions in other organizations on campus, and we'll never win another Buc Cup because we aren't a BMP chapter and HQ hates it because it proves that you don't need the BMP to be a successful. You just need a competent chapter.

Edit: We won a Buc Cup at Conclave 2005...go figure.

Yea I agree with you, I think whatever works best for your chapter is what it should be...like Im sure the development of the traditional chapter there at LA Gamma has been honed down to an art, and works great. And that is kick ass teh we completely dominate there, its an accomplishment to be proud of, and it is unfortunate that you cant be rewarded the Buc Cup. BUt like in our case the shitty thing is, is that well first of all, our chapter counselor, well lets not go there...but our RD is f'n awesome. He is goin to be the saving grace of our chapter. We struggle at times, especially with our leadership. There are very few strong leaders inside the chapter, and its hard for them to run it. But as far as BMP is concerned, its a good idea, however it is NOT for everyone i dont think. Personally, i think we could excel farther as a traditional, but thats not up to me. It would be great if HQ would intervene and help us out more. BMP works when ran properly, but when its not, gosh its a mess. It is a decent recruitment tool as well, other than that...its a matter of chapter preference. Egh, i dont know.

Let me start off by saying that I'm the newly elected president of a southern, traditional chapter of SigEp. Let me say a few things about the BMP some of which is what I've observed and some of which I have heard.

A few people have touched on this, but there are a few reasons that we (my chapter) believe nationals began the BMP. The first is hazing. Obviously, every national fraternity that uses pledge programs claim to have no hazing, but I would think that none of these actually do. The way the BMP has been set up seems to be a better protection against hazing than anything else out there. I believe that the other main reason for nationals starting the BMP was numbers. I think that they reasoned that the BMP would draw more recruits than a traditional system because of the lack of hazing and the easy entrance into the fraternity.

There have been a few negative side effects. First of all, I think that SigEp has lost its selectiveness in recruiting guys. Someone on here said that his chapter would give almost anyone bids because the fraternity was strong enough to mold anyone into the right guy. That's terrible. A fraternity is supposed to be an elite organization. That's the idea that was sold to me when I rushed and I still believe it today. Allowing anyone to get in takes away from the meaning of that. Also, as many have said, the BMP takes away from the unity of the chapter. From what I understand, each new member works mostly on their own to fulfill their goals. This is completely opposite from pledging a traditional chapter. There's nothing worse than watching your pledge brother take another shot of Texas Pete after you just missed a question about the LROB. This is also related to the next side effect: the BMP has effectively cut the balls of our fraternity. Going through a pledge season and proving yourself to the fraternity and yourself says something. It's meaningful. It says that you are fearless and is something to be proud of.

Many traditional SigEps will say that BMP SigEps are "douche bags" as TheGoat said (not to validate his attitude, but this is a commonly held view). Sure these guys may be balanced in that they make good grades and do community service but are they the guys they party hard and get the girls? Don't get me wrong, making top grades, holding IFC positions, doing community service, and winning intramurals are all things to be proud of, but lets not get away from the fact that we are in a social fraternity.

Let me end by saying that there's a lot I don't know about traditional chapters. If I've said something inaccurate feel free to correct me. These are my thoughts and the thoughts of those in my chapter.

I just reread what I wrote. At the end, I meant to say there's a lot I don't know about BMP chapters. Just clearing that up.

You can edit your post if you like by clicking on the "edit" button at the bottom of it, changing what you want to change and resubmitting. :)

Each chapter is different but BMP & Traditional Sig Ep chapters in the South are completely different. Every BMP chapter Sig Ep I've met sucks. Sorry, but that is just what I've experienced. I'm sure there are exceptions but this is my experience. I'm sure each traditional chapter has their share of d-bags as well, but just not as many as BMP.

I think the BMP has ruined the fraternity.

I will never call a BMP member my brother. I can't. Anything that changes the experience solely to increase numbers and revenue will never have my respect. The idiots at nationals are very lucky the South hasn't broken off.

The idiots at nationals are whoring themselves to the media and to insurance companies, and it's taxing on the fraternity. First, SigEp is less tolerant of its chapters that get in trouble than any other major national fraternity. One strike and your chapter is gone. Real brotherly love there. But hey, they don't care--it makes us look better.

This has practical problems as well. Many chapters that are kicked off campus and given the option to either lose their charter or become BMP choose the former. The result? Rather than returning to campus, they become sketchy and unregulated. Hence why schools like William and Mary, College of Charleston, and Wake Forest have earned reputations as the "date rape" fraternities on campus--something no chapter on campus would have. Nationals could easily give them charters back as traditional chapters, but instead opts to save its face and let dangerous situations bubble.

How can you say all that when you're from a BMP chapter?

Thoughtful. But I'm not. This is your 4th post saying the exact same thing (you even extrapolate to say I'm from Texas Tech in one!), and your 4th one with not evidence to support it.

I seem to know a lot about Carolina and Virginia area SigEp chapters for a Texan, no?

Maybe actally criticize what I've written, rather than make shit up, and we can have a thoughtful discussion. Otherwise, you're still a lesbian eskimo from the University of Arkansas, and I have just as much proof for that as you have for me.

I am an alumni from a traditional chapter. We lost our charter because we pretty much refused to do the BMP and we were not liked by Nationals. We were Louisiana Delta and true non BMP conformists even though we were colonized BMP.

The BMP is ridiculous. It is turning Sig Ep into a Honors fraternity instead of a social and is a great example of the feminisation of males across the country. I am proud to say I earned my knowledge of our ritual.

Christopher L. Day a.k.a "Daygo"
Louisiana Delta Pin# 0034

All you undergrads out there who are traditional, "Fight the BMP". At least fight for a chapters choice to be traditional or BMP.

Is the Sig Ep chapter at Southern Miss a BM Chapter? Also, on the Sig Ep website some chapters have RLC next to their name? What does that mean?

I don't know about Southern Miss. RLC stands for Residential Learning Community, nationals' retarded new name for "fraternity house." God I hate nationals.

You've got to be kidding me? Residential learning community?
Daygosigep

Please tell me you're kidding.

(checks national website)

Oh my Lord, you're not.

But it says all that stuff about having a faculty fellow etc - are there houses out there that don't have that and are just, well, normal fraternity houses?

33girl,

There are plenty of SigEp houses out there that are just "chapter houses" without the faculty fellow. RLC is a fairly new direction that SigEp is taking, especially with some of the larger houses on larger campuses. From what I understand, the faculty fellow doesn't live in, but they visit the house every week (some have an office in the house like their faculty office) and are there to help brothers out academically, lead discussions, etc. It's a heavier faculty advisor presence.

PsychTau

ETA: There's a big push on college campuses towards setting up residential learning communities in Res Life. What used to be called "dorms" have since become "residence halls" and are now becoming "residential learning communities".

A Baldwin Wallace student accused in the death of a (SPE) fraternity brother was sentenced to three years in prison after making a deal with prosecutors, NewsChannel5 reported.

Adam Gaydos, 20, pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the January 2005 death of Brent Jones.

Gaydos admitted to punching Jones during a dorm fight. Jones later died from his injuries.

Gaydos can apply for judicial after serving two years of his sentence.

Traditional is definitely that way to go. It also gets you alot more respect from other fraternities. Everyone thinks of BM chapters as like insta-brothers. I don't know, personally I think the whole idea of pledging is the basis of a fraternity. Otherwise it almost seems to border on social club. It teaches respect, responsibility, and it bring you alot closer together, especially with your pledge brothers. I am so glad South Carolina is traditional. It makes you feel like you earned your spot in the fraternity, you deserve to be there. All of you guys in a BMP chapter, don't trash traditional until you've been apart of one. Also like transfering school to school. It would be weird if I transfered to a BMP chapter. One, I could be a junior and I would be totally out of sync with the whole "levels" thing. especially since I would have been a brother for 2 years so its not like i would just be starting out. One more thing, I think I can speak for everyone in a traditional chapter here, if i was to transfer, and the chapter at the new school was BMP. I would have a big problem with that, because you would definitely feel like you have more right than anyone to be apart of the fraternity because you had to earn your way in, and all these people your with just signed a piece of paper... Oh well. hopefully USC will stay traditional for as long as possible, hell nationals is even giving us an awesome new house. We have the highest GPA on campus, like 80 brothers, won IM's 6-7 times out of the last 10 years and are about to win again. Things are looking pretty good.

Coming from a very successful chapter that runs the BMP, I think that some of you do not fully understand the program. My chapter chartered in 2000, and I dealt with the whole "not a real fraternity" crap from other frats on our campus...until we showed them what we are about. We hold the same ideals as all SigEps, and we continually improve ourselves after pledging ends. I'm not saying that brothers in traditional chapters do not, I'm just saying that it is required for us.

I've seen many arguments from traditional chapter members that struck a nerve with me:

1. Not pledging does not promote respect for the fraternity.

I respect SigEp and how it can change the lives of men for the better as much as any of you. Traditional or BMP...we stand for high ideals and aspire to make a difference wherever we go.

2. BMP chapters are too easy to join.

Joining a SigEp chapter is different everywhere. My chapter is hard to join...we are very selective. I have seen some BMP chapters that give everyone a bid...but I have also seen some traditional chapters that do the same.

3. Since I'm from a BMP chapter, I'm not as close to my brothers as traditional members are with their pledge class.

I will argue that I am as close with my brothers as any of you within your pledge class. In the BMP program, you can work at your own speed, but ask around...most travel through the ritual together anyway. We struggle together, learn together, fail together and succeed together. And we do it for more that the 8-10 weeks of pledging...we do it for our entire college careers. We also are not separated by pledge classes, so if someone is taking longer in a challenge, we bond with them. If someone is going through the challenges quickly, we can bond with them.

4. BMP members do not "earn" their letters or their knowledge of the ritual

That is flat out bullshit! We may not pledge, but we require our members to do many of the same things. The difference is that we do it throughout our college career, not just our first semester in the fraternity. We have to continue to participate and continue to grow every semester. Also, since we learn the ritual in steps, I would argue that we have to do MORE over a greater amount of time to prove ourselves and "earn" that knowledge and our letters.

This post is not meant to attack any traditional chapters, but to give my thoughts as I continue to hear myself and other BMP chapter members insulted. The prior comments on this probably weren't meant to insult me, but when people say that I'm not as good a SigEp as they are because I'm from a BMP chapter, that does insult me.

Later all,
Benson

Truthfully
 

Truthfully

BMP, as I have seen it ruins the reputation of Sigma Phi Epsilon as a whole. I've met people from all over the country who are greek. I always ask them what SigEp is like on their campus, every time I hear something like "they are a bunch of nerds" "they are tools" "the suck" etc. it is disheartening. Invaribly, I find out that these same chapters are BMP.

It is an embarassment to me when others ask about the Balanced Man Program and I have to tell them that there is no pledge process involved.

Why do BMP chapters boast such high retention rates and GPA's? Because anyone can join! It is highly non-selective, and the guys who couldn't get bids from anyone else usually end up going "Sigma Phi Everyone." (As we are often called.)

BMP is clearly a marketing tool, as was previously stated. That is because fraternities, on the national level, are businesses. Do you think Barra at Nationals give a shit about your campus reputation, or how cool the sororities think you are? No. They care about high numbers because higher numbers are higher revenue.

There is more to a fraternity than good times and good looking women. It is a brotherhood! Adam Seiber once told me that when CAJ founded this fraternity, "it was selective and secretive." They didn't allow anyone with a pulse, to sign up! BMP does just that.

It pains me to say, but when I travel I've met a lot of other SigEps. The ones that were BMP, I can't say we had a lot in common. It is like BMP is a whole other fraternity. I've also noticed that BMP guys think they are better than traditional. They make no attempt to disguise this.

The scary truth is:
In several years there will be no more traditional chapters, and the reputation of Sigma Phi Epsilon may be ruined.

^^^The reputation of SigEp is already ruined.

By the way, did anyone happen to see that they quoted me in that TIME magazine article about SigEp?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...8951-1,00.html


Also, I went to Carlson's a few months ago. The BM chapters were terrible. The only cool BM chapter was really traditional at heart. They just lied to nationals about being BM so they could get a house.

I joined a balanced man chapter this semester and so far i am loving it. People say without pledgeship there isn't as strong of a bond with your brothers, but I've found that to not be the case, at least with our chapter. I would do anything for any brother in the chapter and I know they would for me too. I love and respect this fraternity just like anyone else. I do think that the traditional chapters might bring people together quicker than a BMP chapter, but I think the bond is there either way and that is what is important. You might think someone is a "dork" or whatever, but they are a SigEp too. Don't talk shit about a fellow SigEp. Sorry for this novel, but I hate how BMP chapters get ripped on all the time.

That is because BMP guys act 'Holier than thou!' Time magazine and nationals suck your dick for being BMP and you get an ego.

You go do your ettiqute class, I'll go have a mixer!

dude i dont care about whatever time magazine had to say. all i'm sayin is that BMP is different than traditional, but it doesnt mean it is ruining the fraternity's reputation. No chapter is any better than the other, it's whatever fits at the school. if u don't think a chapter is cool then deal with it, it isn't ur chapter.

oh and btw, i do agree that some BMP guys act, as u said, "holier than thou" we have some of that in our chapter and i hate it just as much as u do. and i do agree that the traditional system has its benefits and i wish BMP chapters would be a little more like the traditional. But not all BMP guys act like that and some of us are trying to make our BMP chapters better (combining traditional and BMP). but to just discredit us as some other people in this thread do is lame. also i do think that pledgeship weeds out the people who aren't as commited to the fraternity which is good. But some BMP people, such as myself, would have went thru pledgeship to join SigEp. So don't go judging people u don't know is all i ask.

I am in a BMP chapter and would much prefer to be traditional. My chapter takes the rules and "meaning" of BMP way to seriously. I think that traditional chapters have a lot more unity and understanding of eachother than balanced man chapters.

"I think that traditional chapters have a lot more unity and understanding of eachother than balanced man chapters."

I disagree...but it sounds like my BMP chapter runs differently from yours. We take the BMP seriously, but not 100% by the letter.

As for the reputation that some keep referencing...what reputation is being ruined? Please describe the reputation so I can understand how the BMP is ruining it. My BMP chapter is very selective, our brotherhood is tight, we are leaders all through campus, the women love us and we know how to party, but not get in trouble for it. Is that ruining the SigEp reputation?

I have met a lot of guys through Carlsons and Conclaves, and I have met a far amount of "tools" that are from both traditional and bmp chapters. I have met a lot of awesome brothers from both as well. Why are we competing with each other about which is better?? Men are finding both to be effective or crappy...depending on that particular group of guys at that university. It's as simple as that.

That etiquette dining thing is probably the shittiest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Wow. Maybe we overgeneralize the embarassment that the BMP is to our fraternity sometimes, but with that kind of shit, it's hard not to.

And it's pretty obvious that etiquette is a direct result of the BMP. What was once a social fraternity is becoming an honors society. GPA and numbers become all that counts, rather than brotherly love. At the least, the BMP is seriously dividing the chapters, ruining our core virtue. Fuck it.

wow... so i guess this is quite the headed discussion. and to be honest.. i think the largest problem here is a huge misunderstanding... and quite honestly.. a little ignorance...

to say that you can tell when a chapter is BMP and Traditional just by meeting them is ridiculous, cause i know A LOT of chapters that don't fit either mold.

the program itself is not built to tear down ur unity as a fraternity, but i think in a lot of cases it brings your fraternity closer together. there are still obvious pledge classes (no, we don't call them that, but they are guys that all come in together and go through the program at the same time), but they are not as segregated as pledge-brother. i think that this brings together the fraternity as a whole, breaking down the smaller clicks such as pledge classes.

just because you are a weak member in a BMP chapter does not mean you get a free ride through the whole program. at any time a brother can be brought to standards and kicked out. there are a lot of standards that sig eps are held accountable to, and it is the chapters responsibility to make sure those standards of membership do not drop. and, members that do not meet those standards can be kicked out by the standards board at any time. so again, it is up to the chapter to keep their members strong, and not let anyone slide through the program.

as for the respect issue, that is just ridiculous also. you want respect, win shit. let ur record speak for itself. how can another fraternity tell you that you are weak if you beat them in all sports. beat them in greek week. or whatever else your school has.

"sigma phi everyone"? again, this has nothing to do with the bmp. if you have low recruitment standards then that if your personal choice. the men you bid should be carefully evaluated and selected whether you are bmp or traditional. the best chapters, traditional or bmp, have some of the highest recruitment standards.

to say that gpa and numbers count more than brotherly love is way out of line. you are taking things way out of context. think about things this way: if a brother has "brotherly love" toward you and the chapter shouldn't he uphold the standards of the fraternity? then he should then be held accountable for the gpa levels set by the fraternity. and, in turn, a brother who does not hold another brother up to the standards set forth also does not have tru "brotherly love". and the whole numbers thing, you have to have numbers to run a fraternity. numbers are stressed by traditional and bmp. some of the largest chapters in the national are traditional. numbers is important across the board.

the bmp was introduced to sigma phi epsilon in the wrong manner. 'forcing' chapters to convert or get shut down was the worst thing the national chapter could possibly do. because with that, the bmp came with negative connotations that have stuck.

we are sigep. we have always been different. we should not be afraid of the balanced man ideal or program. if traditional works for you and your chapter than more power to you. but to say that other fraternities think we are less because of it is ridiculous. with our roots we have shown to be innovative and groundbreaking. the balanced man ideal is the next step. it is not a coincidence that tons of other fraternities have copied this model and applied it accordingly. we should be proud of who we are, and the direction we are going.

Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

It would really suck if my beloved fraternity got the National repuation equivalent to that of someone like TKE.

[QUOTE=GAFU SC Alpha]Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

yes... i have a great idea... we educate people on what the balanced man program truly is and what it means... because a lot of the statements made show that many people don't know what it really is.


Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

you are making assumptions about bmp chapters. i could have made assumptions about traditional chapters hazing, but i don't. because that is not what traditional chapters stand for and that is not what they are about. bmp chapters are not about being stuck up, they are about making men better (what i thought our fraternity was about the whole time).

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

but why separate those 30+ guys from the rest of the fraternity? because they were born at a later date? or because they decided to join after other men. they can still do things together as a class, but why separate them as a whole.


This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

this has nothing to do with the bmp. this has to do with the members of those fraternities and them blaming the bmp for that. go talk to other fraternities at Oregon State or LMU (and I am sure there are a ton more). Or better yet, ask some of the girls there. They will tell you how SigEp dominates those campuses even though they have a BMP program


Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

LOL. Examples include: Sigma Nu's LEAD, Phi Tau's "Total Man Program" and their "Building Men of Character", SAE's True Gentlemen Program. And, as stated in earlier posts, sororities have also jumped on the bandwagon. Fraternities across the board have slowly moved to some type of development program similar to the BMP, even if they are not calling it something specific.

at no point did i ever say bmp was better than traditional. as i said before, if traditional works for you, than that is what works. but the bmp is working for a lot of chapters all around the nation. and, because of that, and because of the lack of education about the bmp i think it is irresponsible to criticize it without fully knowing it.

i think i answered most of your questions....

A year in the BMP
 

This fall I will be going through Epsilon rite (full initiation). My observations after a year of new membership:

Things I like about the BMP:
-no hazing = no bodily harm or trips to the ER, no resentment towards actives
-required participation in IMs and community service
-required participation in house officer cabinets
-actives were nice to us and I didn't have to spend half a year being treated like I were less than a person
-The house projects are probably my favorite part of the BMP. Instead of destructive hazing, each of our sigma classes leaves their mark on our house in the form of a constructive project such as chapter tables, lawn repair, etc.

Things I don't:
-the EDGE "leadership program" was an absolute waste of time for me and every sigma from my school that went with me. The only thing it taught me was that people from my school are more well-adjusted than people from other schools.
-The aforementioned holier-than-thou attitude. Sucks.
-On top of that last point... it's become clear that there are a few people in my house who joined SigEp with the mindset that it was more of an honor society than a social fraternity. This is a bullshit attitude and it needs to stop.
-The things we can't do: "responsible" hazing. This fall when I'm fully initiated, I can't half-jokingly bark orders at sigmas to do kegstands or shots while singing the songs (as was done to me) for fear of having our charter pulled. I am told that scavenger hunts, described to me as the most entertaining event of pledgeship, might be off limits. I am not a fan of the zero-tolerance policy.
-The length of time it takes to be fully initiated: more or less twice as long as a traditional pledge period.
-The minimum GPA for recruitment: I understand that we want to stay on top of everyone academically, but you can't tell me that a potential with a 2.7 coming out of high school will wreck our house while a 3.0 guy is the perfect fit.
-Number one problem with the BMP as it applies to my chapter: apathy. The reason I wasn't as close to some of my sigma class as I would have liked is that some of them just flat out didn't show up to shit. They'd appear for parties... and that's all I would see of them. Not even coming to chapter. And we can't do anything about it. We can't kick them out because as per BMP we're not allowed to blackball sigmas. There shouldn't have to be an incentive to show up for house events, but it's a really aggravating situation for me right now.


Well, the cons list looks longer than the pros... but I didn't join SigEp because of the Balanced Man Program. I joined because I saw potential for real friendship in the brothers of the house. I in no way look down upon traditional chapters; rather, I embrace them as brothers, as I hope they would me. BMP or not, you'll find me partying at the house every weekend.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts, comments and suggestions appreciated.

Before I start...
 

I have really seen a downfall in the Greek system where I go to school. There is no quality and its just about the partying.Fraternities are supposed to be service oriented as well, giving back the the school where they are given the right to have that organization. I love my school and want to see greek life go through the roof. I wanted to start an organization that is more than just the average greek organization. Yes, partying is an important part of the college experience but why can't you work hard and then play hard. Its all about keeping your responsibilites and being balanced. That is why I feel good about bringing Sig Ep back to Arkansas State, because of the balanced man program. I have been affected by hazing myself on a haze-free campus. It doesn't build brotherhood, it built resentment. I can't say enough how much I dislike the people who drove me through line ups and kidnapped me and made me drink way too much alcohol the night before a test. Its wrong, and the balance man to me looks like away of preserving quality and giving a a group of guys with similar ideals about virtue, dilligence, and brotherly love a place where you can always go and where people who have your back. I know this may be jumbled and incoherant but fraternity to me means family...and if the balanced man brings family and than i am happy to revive Sig Ep on the campus of ASU. We already have a group of 10 guys who see this difference that we need, I hope we are making the right decision.

BMP sucks. End of story. I have witnessed the true harm this does and this is why we were one of the few chapters to RETURN to traditional after BMP(and this was nationals pulled us). You have no strong ties to your pledge class. There is no reason to commit. Its basically like a club you join, pay money and show up to meetings for. Since there is nothing to go through, there is no reason to stay loyal and dedicated to the frat. I went through hazing and all and I am a loyal, die hard SigEp, however, our reputation around the country sucks b/c of BMP we just let anyone and everyone in and we dont weed these guys out during pledgship. For instane, I met a group od SigEp's traveling through about a year ago, there were 6 of them, 3 were gay. I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.