33 is right. Students will continue to haze other students, regardless of whether the university recognizes those students as an official group participating in a school-sanctioned activity.

Even if they derecognized the Greeks at Chico and those Greeks operated underground, the university would still be able to expel students who caused harm to another student through hazing or other physical torture (which is certainly what the water hazing incident was). Either way, students are not at liberty to torture other students.

On the other hand, if the football team was caught doing this, I wonder if they would be so quick to threaten banning football?

What a screwed up situation-- and not just at Chico. I mean in general. Why is there this inherent human need to absorb groupthink mentality and throw all common sense out the window? No one goes to college and aspires to drink himself to death or to be beaten to a bloody pulp. Is the fear of being ostracised by one's peers really such a deep motivator to do things you know are wrong?

This is just another typical knee jerk reaction.:(

Oh OH OHHHH, a group with a Greek Name did a badie, ergo, kick off all Greeks.:mad:

It makes one wonder just what these supposedly Academians have between their ears?:confused:

We must suffer because of a non sanctioned group. This picture is totally wrong.

Lets get with it Oh Great Brains Of Colleges, it is a single group, or a few individuals of any group that do this sort of thing. If it is the whole group, boot them off campus, if it is a few uncondoned members, boot them off of campus. But to Boot the whole system off of campus?

Does stupid come to mind?


Remember, there is a difference between stupid and ignorant!

Is that LAX or LXA?

There is a big difference!

Yeah. One is a fraternity and the other is an airport. Or did I get that backwards?

I believe in this case she was refering to Lacrosse?

I know, but I still like the airport line.

Well that went right over my head then! And you, or maybe just Tom, had me convinced that you were confusing LAX with LXA :D



Edited b/c I couldn't sleep at all last night b/c of a sinus infection and so I am no longer sure if my typing or thinking is coherent... :)

Don't feel bad, I'm sure it went over a lot of other heads, too. Obviously, I've spent way too much of my life in airports.

For those who don't know, LAX=Los Angeles International Airport in FAA shorthand.

She was talking about the lacrosse team then? I have never heard of it referred to in that way. But then again I have never been to a school with a lacrosse team.

Yeah, she meant the lacrosse team. I went to LaCrosse (as in UW) and we'd say LAX when we meant lacrosse and sometimes even LaCrosse even though LaCrosse is technically LSE and not LAX. Oh, and there's no LXA at LaCrosse!

Betcha never thought you'd see that many lacrosses in one post!

I heard there was some gathering of the greek orgs recently on campus to discuss next steps for greek life on this campus. I think it was at a national level. anyone know if this is true?

So I guess I have a theory, if president Zingg is threatening to shut down the Greek system at Chico State, while making public his plans to re-build the campus, plans of which build over some of the Greek houses located closes to campus, I don't know maybe he's using recent incident as an excuse to be able to remove you from your homes without conflict.

Don't get me wrong I'm about as aware of Chico State's history as the next person, but it seems unlikely that a threat like that would ever be taken seriously unless there was some hidden agenda, I don’t know it just sounds somewhat convenient for him.

Nichole

This is an attitude that I've heard many sorority members and national officers voice - i.e. the girls are fine, step away and let the guys croak. It doesn't work.

The fact that women have relied on the men's groups for years to provide social spaces and opportunities cuts both ways. We've used them so we didn't have to be grownups or liberated women and take liability, now we want to put all the blame on them? I'm sorry, but this kind of crap is why the male/female divide in this country is not closing, is in fact getting larger in the younger generations.

33girl - Thank you for saying this.

To share some of the responsibility, some fraternities and/or IFC's are 'pushing back' (for lack of a better phrase) and requiring that only sororities willing to be a co-sponsor for a party/mixer/exchange may be invited *onto* house property for said event.

In other words, while mixers may be held at the fraternity house (because they can have alcohol etc.) only those sororities that sign on as a co-host, and accept joint responsibility, will be (can be?) invited. All this within the guidelines of campus rules and the fraternity's HQ of course.

Note: I would imagine these chapters can still have the random 'house party' where there is a guest list with third party vendors etc.

This is important. As 33Girl knows, but many don't, a fairly significant percentage of fraternity insurance claims result from damage caused by sorority women who are guests for parties or whatever in fraternity houses.

Last school year one or two sororities were charged with hazing at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Those events took place at fraternity houses.

It may not be, probably isn't, the norm, but it does happen.

The real problems come in a couple of areas. Physical damage done to the houses by visiting sorority women, and liability claims for visitors being injured on the property -- like falls down steps, etc. Almost all falls at fraternity houses are alcohol related.

In theory, that couldn't happen at a sorority house because of the (wink, wink) dry housing rules.

So, I don't think it is totally wrong to say that (some) sororities take advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities. Clearly, not always, but enough so that there was an article about it in one of the Risk-Management newsletters I received.

Is it Guys being plyed with the Female prowess to get Guys to do things for them?:)

If some wish to point out that Lets Kick all Male GLOs off of Campus, then what does that leave the Soros to do? Dont say go raid the Dorms for Male comanionship and run outs or parties.

Oh, maybe raid the Jock Dorms, and then what?:o

It is a two way street for Greeks. We have more on the ball if sanity prevails than Independents. Socially that is. It just has to be used with some sense.

AlphaPhiBubbles - this is not directed toward you, your chapter, or Chico State specifically. Just replying from a fraternity point of view with what may (may) be coming down the line - i.e. mixers/socials etc. - due to what, as DeltAlum wrote, "(some) sororities [taking] advantage of the looser rules governing fraternities."

True. And that won't change. But what very well may change is that instead of inviting over a whole sorority chapter for a mixer, the fraternity will find it just as easy to have a guest list and invite individual women. Thus, the sorority chapters that do not step up and take joint responsibility for a mixer, may very well be left out of social events that take place on the fraternity's propriety or at a third party vendor. The fraternity, on the other hand, who is use to taking responsibility - as it were - will continue to invite - and get - woman to come to their parties. Greek and independent alike.

And as you noted, "the girls usually leave". What about those who do not leave? Having a sorority show up a mixer saying "We didn't know that alcohol would be present..." (wink wink) isn't going to cut it anymore. The issue isn't just if there is a third party vendor but joint responsibility between fraternities and sororities. Greeks can and do still get trashed at both third party vendor and other events.

Sure, fraternity houses tend to be larger and able to support both chapters participating in the mixer. Again, this is why fraternities are looking to have mixers - with or without third party vendors - with sororities who will step up with joint responsibility. For the very reason that it is on the fraternity's property. Otherwise, they will move to a guest list. May mean less risk with just as much fun.

Which is why having the sorority sign on for parties taking place at the fraternity chapter house may very well be the norm down the line. Fraternities are quick to be blamed for the drinking issues of women when often the women do their drinking else where, yet their passing out at the fraternity.

Agree. But you did ask "...why should we [sororities] suffer because of the guys??" Which is why the lengthy replies.


Alcohol abuse is a risk management issue whether it's involved with hazing or at a social mixer. Which is why sororities need to support fraternities in trying to curb alcohol abuse. And if it isn't addressed, then maybe the fraternities will very well be gone. And frankly, I would venture to guess that without IFC fraternities, membership in NPC sororities would decrease dramatically. A key social aspect of being Greek - interaction with fraternities - would be zero. No paring up at Homecoming; no serenading by fraternities; limited Greek Week games/events; no fraternity hosted events such as Derby Day, Watermelon Bust etc. And no socials.

In any case, just as the NPC GLOs pushed to keep alcohol out of sorority houses etc., fraternities are looking at the risks associated with supporting the sororities' drinking habits. (Along with other alcohol related issues.) Frankly, I am sure that many fraternities would hope to continue to host socials. As such, one possible solution is having sororities take responsibility for social events as well - regardless if alcohol is served - so that the fraternity is not blamed when a sorority women shows up at a mixer trashed. As can be the case now.

And a reduction in alcohol abuse may hopefully translate to a reduction in and ending of hazing as well.

To be clear...i was only talking about my school. I cannot say what happens elsewhere.

TSteven - i appreciate your post and didn't feel attacked...just so you know :) I think you made a lot of really good points.