I'm sorry, by saying "I can only imagine what happened with those strippers.." I didn't mean I was fantasizing, more like saying I didn't want to know. But one of my sisters is their sweetheart and was there that night and told me John didn't even really pay attention to them.

I think you're right though that I am quick to make excuses for his behavior. I'm going to try my hardest to seperate myself from him because I'm getting pretty sick of questioning his moves left and right.

Thanks for putting it in a nice way. :) I am starting to think that he does just want sex, which is totally uncool with me. I'm definitely fed up with the way he's been handling the situation.

James, I usually agree with you, but not on this one. It's one of the only ways to get men to realize you are looking for more than just sex. And once they know that, they more often than not step up to the plate (and if they don't then you know where you stand before you get involved!). Besides, I don't necessarily advocate that he pay for the date-- I like to switch off. The point is to make it a little more formal and slightly difficult to see you. I mean, everyone wants what they can't have!

If you need a guy to be formal and spend money to make him realize that you need more than just sex, you are a communicator that needs to better focus on clear meaning. And I realize that you're using 'real' dates that cost money as an example, not rules that you live and die by, XO. If you're setting limits, and not standards, its not fair to either party. And limits and rules are the bulding blocks of emotional games, not actual relationships. It should be easy to connect emotionally- on both sides of the coin. If its not, then he's not the guy for you.

And I feel like this somehow applies...
then he's just not that into you

Learned my lesson today. Thank god tha situation is over before it really had a chance to take off.
I think I had the shortest relationship ever known to man. 72 hours. I felt like I was in middle school again.

a rebound relationship after the last ordeal?

Nope, that was the last ordeal. LOL.

damnit not John again...

Yes. The evil return of John.
Oh, I forgot to mention this. After he left today and we said it was over, he saw one of my sisters that is always his frat's sweetheart, so he's pretty good friends with her. He told her we got in a "big fight" and it was all my fault it was over. Like I shouldn't have made a big deal that he ditched me on Valentine's Day.
She was just rolling her eyes the entire time I told her what actually happened and she was like, "I knew there was more to it than what he said." Dumb John! :mad:

How did you get from "go on real dates with boys" to "XOMichelle, you are a poor communicator that sets limits which will not end in a meaningful relationship?" I am not those things, have had many a meaningful relationships, so the jump from one to the other is a rather large jump in my opinion.

I find that too many women these days (esp ones in college!) just hook up or hang out with boys, and they feel caught in the middle because they don't know where they stand (much like the woman who started this thread). One way to know where you stand is to actually have a courtship and date someone. It doesn't compromise your relationship-- it simply gives you something to do! You get to go do fun things with people you find interesting (unless the date flops, in which case you get hilarious stories).

For example, you like boy Y. Just hanging out would be going to his room to play X Box and then making out. Going on a real date would be you asking him if he wants to go to the basketball game with you on Thursday. You can still make out and it doesn’t have to cost money, but at the end one of you has to ask the other if you want to see each other again. If either party isn't that into the other, you don't call back and it's over. Pretty simple-- it's a first date! And, it's nice to have an activity planned so one doesn't get bored. Clearly this isn't the way all relationships start nor does it go on for the whole relationship-- I think it's a good, easy way to start out. Also, dating has the added bonus of clear communication: you know that a boy who will take time out of his day to go get coffee with you is into you because he’s taken the time out of his day to do so when you asked, or asked you to coffee himself.

Although I’ve been out of school for a little bit (and people do more “traditional dating” outside of school), I never once had a vague “mixed signals” situation like the one in this thread in college or since. I think that is one of the reasons I was able to avoid the weird “we hook up but don’t date” relationships in school – because I would always ask to go on dates. If I liked a boy that I met or knew, I’d ask him out (and pay for it if I did the asking). It’s not that hard either- you go out with someone you like and have a good time ;-)

ETA: another plug for dating: you can "just date" without being a boyfriend or girlfriend or anything. And you can date multiple people at the same time. It's freedom without uncertainty, definition without constraint. It can be anything you want it to be and it has a name. What can be better?

XOMichelle - I totally agree with you! But I don't agree traditional dates are the answer - I just said that I would place more value on clear communication:

Exactly - we're on the same page in our value of communication: Why not just verbalize I like you why don't we spend time together? And then do it. And then have the guy act like he likes you - he follows through on his verbalization of his wants, using his brain and his heart.

Personally, I never feel relaxed on a traditional date - always, always one on one with a guy, I feel the need to perform. I will be funny and charming and then at the end of the date I think who in the world was sitting at that dinner table? I usually wind up not communicating constructively about myself, I am trying to be as vivacous as possible. If I sit and talk to a guy laying down on my bed, or watch a movie at his house, I am immediately more relaxed. The pressure is off of me, I can let the movie perform and be myself, making stupid comments and laughing.

I am probably a product of this new hooking up culture.

Whether its chilling in a room or at the nicest restaurant in town, if the guy takes time out to be with you alone or is with a pack of friends, its shouldn't matter. Even if this ****wit of a guy took the lovely Miss WVUAlphiPhi out to dinner, he would still show up to her room maybe-not-totally trashed and being treating her badly. Its reading between lines - in whatever dating model the works for you - to realize how the guy (or girl, whatever people) is communicating with you. Thats what I meant by setting standards, not creating limits or rules - don't limit yourself to only dating one guy who follows certain 'rules.' He still might be a really big jerk. If he can't use his brain in trying to spend quality time with you in however you feel most comfortable, then, whether its 1963 or 2005, he's probably not worth your time.

So XOMichelle, I agree with you mainly but I take a different route in getting there. And slowly but surely I am moving toward real dating but I still get hives thinking about dinner at a restaurant. Its a baby step process.

So yes, we do agree, however I do put a huge value on communication- being very clear is very good. If I like someone I will tell them -- I never said I didn't. But you don’t tell people every single day, especially in the beginning. Going out to Chili's and communicating aren't mutually exclusive-- in fact my prior point is the communication is doubled. Verbal +nonverbal= very clear signal.

I guess it just depends on what you like to DO. I like to go out -- with my friends as with anyone else. Restaurants are fun, hiking is fun, bars are fun... if a boy tried to make me sit at home I'd get bored and split. I mean, the only reason I own a television is because someone gave me one!

Although I still maintain that most boys respond to hanging out differently than they do to activity- based dates!