From the alpha Sigma Alpha website... and I'm 99% sure I could find the same thing at any other NPC org's website.



Auxiliary groups, commonly referred to as little sister and big brother groups, are inconsistent with the concept and philosophy of all National Panhellenic Conference (NPC) sororities and North-American Interfraternity Conference (NIC) fraternities. Their existence may very well jeopardize our status as single sex organizations.

Members of Alpha Sigma Alpha will decline to join fraternity auxiliary groups.

Big brother organizations are inappropriate to the mission and purpose of Alpha Sigma Alpha, therefore, chapters shall not establish men's auxiliary organizations or individual big brother relationships.

A girl that I was good friends in high school was a little sister for a FIJI chapter in Georgia in the early 90's (90-92-ish). I hadn't spoken much to her after I went away to college, but at some point she just totally lost her marbles and developed a very bad reputation. She then tried to sue the fraternity for equal rights as a member of FIJI. It was really sad, but she was so desperate for attention.

I guess I'll go ahead and comment here along with ya'll :)

I'm a lil sis to a fraternity (won't way who) and a Sweetheart (duh ;)) to another. I have 2 lil bro's through my sorority's Lil Bro program and I love 'em!

Now, here at Rio lil bro/sis organization are a pretty big thing. Strange thing is, is that rush for lil's has a bigger turnout than our official rush for members. :rolleyes: :p I know that my sorority has had active Lil Bros since 1984 and have had no real trouble with them. I don't know if it's just here or anything but I know the sororities have had MUCH less trouble with our auxiallary groups than the fraternities.

Oh, just a side note, GLO's here do allow their lil bro/sis members to wear letters. However, each group has their own rules concerning it. (As in, with us we only let our guys wear the letters w/"lil bro" underneath them, or some groups only let them wear the letters in certain colors, etc)
--Kayla

I know what little sisters are..but what exactly is a "rush girl"...someone to hang around their tent/house while they do rush? What do they exactly do, hand out drinks, snacks, tell them to go XYZ??

Yes, that was the idea. Also, it seemed that many of the "Rush Girls" went on to be Little Sisters -- so I guess it was a trial period for that.

Pretty much.

The Sig Eps at my college asked each sorority to come out on a different night of fraternity rush. We pretty much just sat around and looked good. :) We talked to the rushees, helped make them feel more comfortable, etc. I personally didn't say, "Oh, you should join Sig Ep, they're the best!" or anything like that, and I don't recall the brothers asking us to say that. It was mostly to make them look good b/c they had a large amount of hot women in their house I guess. ;)

As a Pike little sister I went out to the house during rush and talked to all the rushees. That's how I got my little brother -- he was a rushee, ended up pledging Pike and picked me since I had rushed him.

I guess I have to repeat myself:

There is a very, very, VERY huge difference between an honest to God little sister program where they have a rush, a pledging period and basically function like a sorority, and a sweetheart type recognition that h_n_l is describing. They probably shouldn't call them "little sisters" though because (as shown by this thread) people get the wrong impression. They are sweethearts. Sweethearts are obviously OK with NPC groups as any international fraternity sweetheart I've ever read about was an NPC member.

h_n_l is not in an auxiliary group. She is a sweetheart. SO SHE IS NOT BREAKING ANY ALPHA SIGMA ALPHA POLICY REGARDING THIS RULE, and the initmation that she is is not appreciated.

Icecold is right when she says this:

That is to say, the brothers of XYZ cannot make women participate in a pledging process to obtain any kind of recognition by XYZ.

Can we put this one to rest and stop trying to make everyone else look guilty for something perfectly innocent? Thank you, drive through.

While I really don't think it's hugs_n_ladybugs's fault that this particular fraternity or campus uses the incorrect terminology, I also don't think it's fair to chastize us for knowing the correct terminology. It is only later in the thread that she mentions anything related to sweethearts. Little sister organizations are against NPC rules, and so when I see the phrase "Lil' Sis", this is what I (and everyone else in this thread, obviously) assume we are talking about. If the thread had been titled "Sweethearts" or if the initial post had mentioned sweethearts or anything CLOSE to sweethearts, the following contents would have been very different. This is evidenced by the fact that there are probably several threads floating around here about sweethearts and they are full of positive comments.

Yes, there is a huge difference between being in a Little Sister auxiliary group and being a sweetheart, but it was not at all clear what hugs_n_ladybugs meant.

I agree, but I will say that once a fraternity starts naming more than one individual (as in a "court") it starts coming close to being perceived as a Little Sister group.

I agree with this. I also really liked your story about being a rush girl for Chi Omega. Although I don't think there is anything wrong with the official title of Sweetheart, when it comes to devoting any of my time or resources to helping another organization recruit members, I'd have to say that time would be better spent focusing on improving my org.

I was addressing the posts that came AFTER hugs_n_ladybugs clarified what she was talking about. This issue was over and done with till the thread was bumped.

In other words, read the thread before you put your two cents in.

Wasn't trying to make anyone else look guilty, attempting to post for clarification, I guess I just added to the confusion, didn't mean to.

I would like to address this. I wouldn't say fraternities feel a *need* (i.e. have to) include women during rush per say. As you pointed out, there is a chapter on your campus that only allow brothers at their rush events and they do well. And that is all well and good for them.

However, on other campuses, having sorority women help out is not only allowed but a nice touch as it were. Something more akin to Babs and Mandy - The Omega Name-tag Hostesses from "Animal House" - than say Paris Hilton in a tube top and Daisy dukes "going wild". But to be clear, the chapter sells the brotherhood to the men rushing, not the women.

Generally speaking there is a big difference (rules, guidelines etc.) between IFC rush and NPC recruitment. Please note that even the terms generally used are different. i.e. recruitment for sororities and rush for fraternities.

Generally speaking, fraternity rush is all about getting as many of the best men that fit with your chapter that the chapter can. In most cases, there isn't anything like house total or quota unless it is chapter imposed. So any advantage a fraternity chapter can use - be it having sorority women "help", having live bands, or having a barbecue - is going to leave a better impression than those chapters that don't have anything "fun".

And I bet dollars to donuts that if you were to ask many men, that they might find the concept of the NPC formal structure for recruitment a tad bizarre. Quota and house totals? And the whole skits and making get well cards out of elbow macaroni at craft night. I tell you what. I bet if an NPC chapter *was* allowed to have well dressed fraternity gentlemen politely escorting the PNMs into the chapter house and waiting on the PNMs, it would leave one hell of a positive impression on those PNMs. And yeah, that's one of the reasons why NPC does not allow men. To give an 'unfair' advantage to any one group.

Which goes back to the difference between IFC rush and NPC recruitment. It is *ok* to be different and "not equal" - as it were - during IFC rush. Those men who enjoy the certain events will rush those chapters. Those who do not, will go elsewhere. Which may be why there are often more fraternity chapters on a campus than sororities.

Viva la différence.

edited for spelling

Rules, rules, rules!
 

I AGREE! (Sorry I had to edit your post a bit but I only deleted paragraphs for brevity and NOT to change the context!!!)

My boyfriend goes NUTS trying to figure out the concept of sorority rush. While it may make things more fair and civil for the girls it's a mind-boggling process. It prevents them from just doing whatever the girls might honestly like to do because everyone has to do the same thing.

While I like that concept of fairness it does take a certain amount of fun out of being able to freely express your org on campus any way you want to (within reason), it seems. (This is from the perspective of a GDI...)

I see the guys doing a lot more stuff and since they have less strict rules overall (not just during recruitment) they don't have to cut through red tape to just be themselves. While the girls have to worry about things that may seem just plain odd to outsiders. (Keep in mind that I fully accept and understand the concept of the rules as I am planning to rush in Fall), but it'd be so nice to see everyone stop worrying and just have a good time! Of course everyone is not able to be as responsible and sensible when left to their own devices, hence the strict rules, but I believe (or I'd like to believe) that the majority of people in general have common sense! :) ;)

what's really been funny is during rush, the fraternity guys will straight out say to girls, "You should go ABC...they can't tell you that because its dirty rushing, but seriously, you should be an ABC!". The guys can have freshmen in their house playing video games during fall quarter, they can straight out say "you want to pledge us?" to guys...drives me NUTS! We can't so much as say Boo to girls without getting accused of dirty rushing. I can't think of any guy on campus here that didn't get bidded by the fraternity of his choice...it's a lot more about the rushee's choice of chapter.

I was a little sister at Phi Delta Theta. It was a wonderful program, and I'm not happy to learn that these type of programs are being phased out.

We did have little sister rush. It was very similar to "informal rush" at a sorority. We went to a parties, got call-backs, went to the second round, etc.

We had a brief "pledge" period where we got to know the guys, and were required to make a paddle and have everyone sign it. We turned in our paddles, and then at our initiation, the president of the Little Sister organization gave them back to us along with a Phi Delta Theta pin (letters, no shield). We also were allowed to order Phi Delt letter jerseys with "lil' sis" (and your name) on the back. And-- we had our own composite.

We were treated like gold by the brothers. We didn't bake cookies or serve drinks. We were pretty much spoiled by the brothers.

Once a week, we had dinner at the Phi Delt house with the brothers.. and of course, we were invited to their socials and parties.

I had a "big brother" too.

We had a mixture of sorority and non-sorority members in the Little Sister program.

I feel fortunate that I was able to be a part of it, and am saddened that so many women must now miss out on the experience.

At the school where I currently advise, one of the NIC groups has a little sister group that was very active. They have meetings, the girls do all kinds of things for the guys, etc. The guys actively recruit the women.

Here is where it gets frustrating......the guys tell the girls NOT to join sororities because their group is free and they can get more benefits from them! I actually had a conversation with the guy who is basically the chapter liason to the little sisters and he is 110% convinced that what he can offer these girls is more valuable then anything sororities can give them.

He reaps the benefits of his fraternity. Why would he think that a woman could not reap benefits from a sorority???? Needless to say this is an ongoing frustration with this NIC group!!!! The worst part about it... Our NPC and the NIC have historical (national) roots together, yet we have to compete with THEM for new members. What's up with that!?!?!

trish, if you speak to this guy again, you might remind him of the benefits he is afforded by being a member of an nic fraternity, and the benefits those women are missing out on by being discouraged to join a sorority. after those women graduate and go out in the world and find jobs elsewhere, will there be an alumnae chapter of this little sister organization in her new town that she can join? does the little sister orgnization offer the opportunity to apply for scholarships to attend graduate or professional school? does the little sister group have chapters at other schools that come together every year or so at conventions where they experience sisterhood and friendship? does the organization further the cause of women?
does the organization allow the women to make their own decisions or are they merely pawns of the fraternity,i.e., do the women decide who will organize the group, do they choose their own members? and just hang in there-he will eventually graduate!

You may want to make the chapter aware that having a little sister group is no longer acceptable per NIC Standards. (see below) And if they don't comply ASAP, let them know you will be addressing this issue with their HQ. I'm sure neither the chapter nor their HQ would care to be presented in a bad light.

Calm down...
 

Wow, people get way too worked up over this stuff...

It really isn't that big of a deal...

In fact, it can be a great thing...

I'm very close with my little sisters, my big sister, and her whole house!

If you take it seriously, it honestly can be a very positive thing...


Hurts no one - is totally consentual - and actually helps build positive relationships!

So regardless what is wrong with helping to NIC Fraternitys?

Isnt expansion of Greeks the main thing?

Yep...
 

You said it Tom...

It amazes me how people get worked up over it...

PEOPLE, IT'S A POSITIVE THING... Stop treating it like it hurts people...

Re: Calm down...
 

If it has been *your* experience with little sister/brother organizations that they "hurts no one - is totally consensual - and actually helps build positive relationships!" then more power to your chapter and campus. However, that may not be the case for everyone else. Please see AXiDTrish and FSUZeta posts above as to how it hasn't been positive for others.

Regardless, the simply reality is that both the NIC and NPC now frown upon these types organizations for various reasons.

As I posted, I'm all for having women - Greek or otherwise - help with fraternity recruitment etc. I just personally do not see a *need* for these type of little sister organizations when you have the whole sorority system to hang out with.

There is nothing wrong with sororities and/or coeds helping fraternities with rush. I'm all for it.

However, I am not for fraternity expansion/rush (via little sister orginizations) at the expense of sorority membership. As is the situation at the school where AXiDTrish advises.

I love Nicole, our newest Dream Girl. She is a Delta Zeta. :)

The biggest problem with it is that (as has been stated numerous times in this thread) it puts ALL of our organizations at risk of losing their single sex status. If some groups have members of the opposite sex, then we can all lose our ability to remain single sex tax exempt organizations. Fraternities, sororities, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and a few other select groups fought to be able to discriminate by gender and got formal rulings to ensure that we could stay single sex organizations. Formal "little sister" groups such as the former Lambda Chi Crescents were banned for very good reasons. Our GLOs spent big money on lobbyists and attorneys to preserve our single sex status. If we lose it, we will either have to allow members of the opposite sex to join our organizations or we will lose our tax exempt status.

Additionally, the less formal lil sis/big brother type arrangements were used for what we termed "cross-hazing" when we started cracking down on hazing big time in the late 80's/early 90's. Then everybody could say "We don't haze our pledges", while allowing other groups to do it for them.

Rules don't come from nowhere. It's helpful to understand the reasons for them.

Dee

The 2 CA's from the NPC groups have gone to the Greek Advisor about the little sister group (it is a mini-org versus a "sweetheart"), but my approach was different. The other NPC group has been competing with this group for years and they pulled the lil sis org card.....

However, there was an incident where the President and brothers of the NIC group brought girls out from Orientation (a HUGE no-no at this school), had her "smuggle" alcohol into a concert event, putting the girls in unsafe positions driving drunk, and I will not mention other scenarios (use your imagination).....there is ONE reason I know about this.....the upcoming freshman put her whole experience, in detail, on livechat.com!!!

So, in our discussions with the Greek Advisor, I brought up the risk mgmt factor. There were multiple things that she described that were dangerous and could have negatively impacted her, the NIC, the Greek system, and since she was technically at a university sponsored event, the school! I expressed concern over her well-being versus the lil sis org. In her little journal, she outlined how the NIC was recruiting her and telling her no sororities, which she previously expressed interest in.

Sorority women help men recruit anyway, help them plan, hang out, etc....why work against the Greek system with a dysfunctional group like this one? Had this young woman stayed away and joined a chapter in the fall she could still hang out with all these guys and supported them perhaps been a sweetheart (one per chapter), but she would have support and a safety net for herself as well....

Ok, sorry, off my soapbox. Thanks Guys!

:)

Well said.

I think the idea of having multiple sweethearts and not trying to detract from sorority numbers is just fabulous. I wouldn't wish harm on them, so why not just work together? (well, where you can) I will say the idea of fraternity cling-ons still just makes me a little ill, but that's me. :) I can say that my chapter has gotten a number of new members because of our relationships with fraternity guys. To hang out there, on an anti-greek campus, it means you have some level of acceptance of the system.

To Be honest, LXA Dropped Cresent Girls for the fact that at that point in time there was a worry of intergating He and Shes in Greek Organizations.

But unless The School or Pan Hellenic has problems, I dont see anything wrong with Ladies helping Gentlemen.

It can be a plus showing Greek Solidarity.

I agree...Ladies can help the gentlemen, but the gentlemen should help the ladies too by encouraging participation in female Greek orgs.

I'm just a bit curious as to why it is accepted as being offensive to attack other GLO's on this forum, yet it seems to be OK to attack a Little Sister organization. The interesting thing here is that those who are launching the grenades have never been a little sister. How can one know what it's like unless one was in the organization?

As I mentioned before, I was a "Little Sister of the Shield" (Phi Delta Theta). I was not some piece of bait for rush (as some people have implied here) in fact, I didn't even attend their rush parties-- nor was I a "cling on" of a fraternity...

...AND nobody ever discouraged a Little Sister from joining a sorority. In fact, it is my experience that the exact opposit occurred. Young women who had never been directly exposed to the Greek system learned what "brotherhood" was all about, and what "sisterhood" could be for them. I saw a number of young women in our Little Sister organization go through rush AS A DIRECT RESULT of their good experiences in the program.

Being a little sister does not take up much time unless you want it to. Every activity is optional. Our once-a-week dinners at the house were optional (and they were free, by the way), the trips to the beach were optional, the parties were optional, and EVERYTHING was optional.

I was not a "cookie baker," nor did I ever hand out drinks at parties. I never was asked to clean the house, or do anything for that matter. That's not what we were there for. We were there to be a part of their "family." We were welcome to attend all of their social functions, sit with them at football games, and... they helped us if we needed it. One brother got one of the little sisters a job interview at his father's company. And conversely, one little sister helped tutor some of the pre-med brothers for their organic chem exam.

In summation, it was a wonderful way of meeting new people-- both male and female. It was never intended to REPLACE sororities, but rather, they were a complement to them.

I realize that as a forum, all sides of the issue can be discussed. I only ask that those disagreeing with the Little Sister organizations do so with respect. Please attack the idea, and not the membership.

blueangel and any others.

I apologize if any of my remarks were taken as an attack toward you and or your involvement in/with your little sister (little brother) organization. That was not my - and hopefully not anybody else's - intent. I was addressing the current status of these organizations with respect to NIC and NPC.

While I'm not sure if little sister organizations were even common at The University of Kentucky (UK) (I know we didn't have one), I did grow up in a college town where little sister organizations were prominent with many (most?) chapters. And I have many women friends who were little sisters there and at other campuses. Some were also sorority women. All were treated with dignity and respect. So I do not doubt that your experience was anything but wonderful, fun and rewarding.

However, the reality is that now both NIC and NPC frown upon these types of organizations because of legal aspects that may be inherent by the very nature of these types of organizations.

If I may paraphrase AGDee's previous insightful post. Currently, little sis/bro organizations can put all single sex GLOs at risk of losing their single sex status. And if that happens, it may very well mean that single sex GLOs will either have to allow members of the opposite sex join and/or perhaps lose tax exempt status.

You know what? I can honestly claim with all sincerity and conviction that I wasn't hazed. Yet I now know that some of the activities that I participated in are now considered hazing and or possible risk management issues. As such, while I do not think there is anything wrong with certain types of these activities, I do not/can not condone them now. Because I want to insure that our organizations continue to exist.

I can also claim with all sincerity and conviction that little sister (little brother) organizations served as a wonderful addition for many chapters and all members involved. Yet I know that little sister/brother groups may be a liability - now. And it is unfortunate, but now I can not condone these organizations for the similar reason as before. Wanting to insure that our organizations continue to exist.

Again, please accept my sincere apologies if my remarks offended you.

edited for grammar and spelling

I am a Lil Sis of a local frat down at my college. Also my girls have a lil bro program, but we are also local too.

I agree with BlueAngel. Some little sister programs were wonderful and women made lifetime bonds....some were just kind of there...some were full of power struggles and made the Greek system look horrible...some were only there for the men and parties. Kind of like, umm, sorority chapters.

As far as little sisters also pledging a sorority, on my campus some of the LS groups were allowed to and some were not. They knew that when they pledged the LS group and that was their decision. I know that there were some women who disaffiliated from their sororities to be little sisters, and vice versa.

Thanks, TStevens for your clarification. I realize this is a "hot button" issue, and I appreciate and understand your point. I just find it very unfortunate that our overly-litigious society can ruin such a good program.

I would think that even without a Little Sister organization, an individual who tried hard enough could sue and perhaps win the case against single sex Greek organizations. That wouldn't necessarily mean the demise of GLOs, although it would force a restructure. They would be forced to move off-campus and go completely private.

I hope that doesn't happen, but it may with OR without Little Sister organizations.

Cant remember if it was about the same time that some schools were trying to intergrate He/Shes into GLOs, but LXA did away with the Cresent Girls, our little Sisters. They had Pins and everything. It was a pretty big deal and had Girls from all GLOs and non GLOs.

A the legality of it all.:rolleyes:

Ah, the good old days were when things were much simplier. Without hazing though!

Co-sign.