Re: Re: ???
 

YES.

Perhaps that also happened with Phi Sigma Sigma but it definitely happened with AOII too (Source: NeonPi, from a phone conversation that we had when I was living in the T.O. and she was living in the 'Peg)

people are going to join what they want to join, and go where they feel comfortable. if a multicultural org is where they feel comfortable, more power to them. why should white greek organizations worry about appealing to minorities when their focus was never really geared towards minorities in the first place? and why should they worry about appealing to minorities when they should focus on finding good members regardless of color?

Because some groups want to better reflect their surroundings. A non-GLO group that I am involved with, for example, would like to reflect Toronto rather than a certain segment of the city. If we want to look like the city's make-up we have to like have ten times as many minorities!

it looks like you want to focus on getting minorities vs. quality members. if you try and recruit more minorities, but your pledge classes are still predominantly white....will you think you have failed in some sort of way?

historically white sororities do not (in general, if i'm wrong...correct me) have national programs geared specifically towards the benefit of minority people. specifically recruiting based on race reeks of tokenism to me. that's like the bruhs making me just because they wanted a filipino bruh.

This non-GLO group I'm involved with usually gets its new members through the connections that actives have. I guess most people there don't have close-close friends who are minorities (you don't want to just approach someone at work and say "do you want to join this org?")

that's great, but in the greek context that we're talking about....white GLO's really shouldn't be specifically gearing their methods of attracting new members because they are minorities....especially if that's not the organization's focus to begin with.

This group isn't trying to get new members just because someone's a minority either, but we'd just like to somehow reflect our surroundings. We don't want to get women who aren't ready to commit to service.

that's good to hear, but this thread is concerning multicultural GLO's.

That seems to be the reason for the development of SOGLOs (Sexual Orientation GLOs). And it makes sense- find a GLO where you feel comfortable. If that means being with more people like you (ethnically or sexually), so be it.
But personally I consider it a means for the minority group to isolate themselves from the rest of society. I know most people would disagree with my opinion- but how can misinformation and others' opinions change when a minority group keeps to themselves? My guess is my opinion is biased on being from a campus with less than 9% racial/ethnic minority and what the administration considers a strong-level of homophobia.

Hey all, can we be sure to put a "historically" in front of white/black/latino/etc.????

It's hard to have a unified front if you are so dispersed throughout an organization.

why? y'all are historically white.

Our membership may be historically white, but that doesn't describe the character of any NIC or NPC organization of which I'm aware.

No one sat down and said, "lets start a white fraternity." If you read the public statements of NIC or NPC organizations' values, no where is "white" anything mentioned (at least with regard to race or ethnicity.)

Calling us "white" is insulting because it shows that you are either completely unaware about what we are, or simply don't care.

how is "white" insulting? y'all are historically white, and predominantly white. just the way it is. no one is trying to insult any of you. so instead of saying historically white, i'd rather just say white.

Its insulting, and very disrespectful, because you are redefining us.

If you take the time to read our values statements (creeds, etc.,) you'll realize that there is a better, and more accurate way by which to refer to us.

i think y'all are looking at the word "white" as disrespectful when it's not. no one is redefining anything...due to the fact that you're creed, values and what not will not change. y'all are called that due to the population make up of your membership, nothing more nothing less.

You may not agree with how we look at this use of "white, " but we are unanimous in our discomfort with that use. To repeatedly use it in this way, many times after these sentiments have been expressed, is nothing less than disrespectful.

ETA bad spelling

ok, understandable.

Speaking as a Black member of an NPC sorority:

Ok, we can all agree that NPC's are HISTORICALLY white organizations although not entirely (I'm evidence of that). All I think people are trying to say is that you should qualify it with "historically" instead of just white because that gives the impression that the org is specifically for whites. Hence the reason why I don't say "black fraternity/sorority", because it unfairly limits the organization.

And also, while I think diversity in our chapters is important, I do not feel it's appropriate to "target" minority women for that specific reason. I'm a Tri Sigma because my sisters felt I would make a good addition to the chapter, NOT because I would make it "diverse". I think sometimes that we as a conference need to let our organizations speak for themselves and not look at diversity as this quantitative thing that can be measured by the number of faces like mine on a composite.

And on the subject of why multicutural organization exist, people have different needs. Yes, NPC/IFC's serve a myriad of non-race specific causes (Children's Miracle Network, Make A Wish, etc) and that's great. Our organizations are changing as more and more women of different races go through recruitment. The values encompassed by NPC's are those that are shared by a universal group of women no matter their color.


THERE are many men and women who would prefer to join something that was FOUNDED on the core values of their culture and building their community up. As all encompassing as NPC's mission is, it cannot specifically address the needs of the hispanic/black/asian communities in the specific way that multicultural or orgs historically based in those cultures can. Those orgs exist to honor build and address the needs of men and women in those communites and for them to keep their "ear" to what goes on there while working closely with people of their own race. There is nothing wrong with that.

:)

Again, I love being in the NPC, it encompasses all types of women and charitable causes. But some women prefer to address the needs of their specific ethnic community and with the broadness of the NPC, she may be more likely to be able to so in an NPHC or multicultural org.

Simply put, the NPC/IFC cannot address the issues and causes SPECIFICALLY facing African Americans, Hispanics, etc. so that's where these organizations come in and I respect them. They have a very important and valid place in the Greek world. :)

Such a great way to put it! Thank you JocelynC!!

Jocelyn,

You make excellent points throughout your post. I offer a different bit of perspective as I am a college professor in Black and Women's Studies and not a memeber of any GLO.

I encounter students on a regular basis who are bi-racial, multi-racial or as jeni puts it "multiculturally-minded" and often b/c of the college administration's and/or the existing GLO's resistance to change, these students often don't have a place for them to feel accepted. I've witnessed several of these students become disgusted with the whole idea of Greek Life b/c no one wants to move beyond the black-white binary paradigm (I know, I'm a professor... in layperson's terms: American society's willful inability to deal with Asians, Latino/as and people of mixed race ancestry). NPC and NPHC organizations are both guilty of this.

I've seen NPHC (Black GLO's) assume that they should have a monopoly on Black students wanting to join their organizations...thus someone like Jocelyn is viewed as a "sellout" b/c she opted to go with a NPC organization. Likewise, I've seen white students who are Black Studies majors (at my institutition) who wanted to participate in NPHC organizations (1) are seen as "wiggers" by NPC groups and (2) hazed beyond belief by NPHC organizations they are trying to join.

The point to all of this is that no one should have a say in how you define yourself and the choices you make. Therefore, MCGLO's can provide viable options for someone who's looking for a different experience. This is not to say that MCGLO's are without their faults but if they provide a means for a student to feel more connected and improves their quality of life, by all means they shouldn't have to face this "old guard" mentality of NPC, NPHC or the highway. People are going to gravitate to that with which they feel most comfortable so why not offer a smorgasborg of options and let people make up their own minds (and live with those choices).

Our world is becoming more diverse everyday and Americans have some of the least globally and multi-culturally minded people in the world b/c we cluster in ethnic enclaves and never leave our comfort zones. If we don't start taking the time to learn about one another without using our lens to judge someone else's experience negatively, we are going have many more Iraq's (your generation's Vietnam).

PhDiva

Thank you for your perspective, PhDiva. You bring up points that have certainly been made in the many conversations on GC. The things you observed about NPC and NPHC groups are things that current members are trying to rectify. The more I think about it, the more I'm really starting to see the the birth of multicultural orgs came at a time when there was a lot of pressure on all Greeks to diversify (as they are still doing now.) So much attention to diversity would have certainly brought about the idea of multicultural Greeks as well as to set a welcoming stage for us to make our presence known.

I love how your first post was on this thread! :)

"The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers,but in men,in real brotherhood."-Bro. Walter H. Maszyk,Esq.

I've read with interest this particular thread,and I do agree that the changing cartography of "race" is having an effect on our social makeup, even in Greekdom. But we must not forget that this conversation predates recent history. In the '40s and into the '60s, "white" Greek-letter organizations, which had exclusionary policies were under pressure from shool administrations to drop them. Some of this occured because individual chapters wanted to initiate non-white members and ran head long into resistance from chapters in the South.etc. Among the NPHC-member groups, this was an issue also. In my fraternity,Omega Psi Phi, we struck from our Ritual and Constitution any reference to race, ethnicity,etc. The tone of "inclusivity" that is being touted among NPC- and NIC-member groups is a recent phenomenon. These organizations were not founded in a historical vacuum either!

Why MCGLOs??
 

I feel I've been out of the loop for so long...too long without my GC..:D

Well, after reading all the previous emails, I feel I can only give my 2 cents on why I started a chapter of a MCGLO

On my campus there were only 3 different type of sorority's (HW, HB and HL). I looked into each but felt that there had to be more than just this...why did I have to "pick" which single def. I wanted to join?

When Zeta Sigma Chi crossed my path, I knew it was what I needed. I wanted to share my culture (at the same time learn more about it...no one is the guru on being Mexican, French and Greek) and learn about others. I was in college to further my education and I didn't feel it only needed to be about what the University had to teach, but others around me....going out in the workforce wasn't going to be cookie cutter style, so why should my Sorority?

I'm proud of anyone who joins any org. and helps it reach a new level. I felt I could reach a new level with a MCGLO, plus since it was the first on the campus, I was opening the door for others to see what I saw.
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Sidebar:
Many years later, I see so many orgs that are HLGLO change form being all about the Hispanic movement and change over to promoting themselves as MCGLO, when in fact they are just (in my opinion) "mulit-Hispanic". I think this goes against what their founders sought after so long ago. I truly feel that they should stay true to what they were founded on.
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Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

I agree and I'm afraid it's this same mentality that causes non-MCGLO Greeks to sometimes become angry when an MCGLO joins their campuses. They feel that because MCGLOs promote multiculturalism, they are - in effect - saying that the rest of the Greeks are not multicultural or do not promote diversity.

As I've said, this is not the case. I truly believe that organizations need to remain tied to their founders' visions. If you are a HLGLO, HBGLO, HWGLO, HAGLO - etc. - be proud of your beginnings and realize that as you move forward, the face of your organization can change, but your purpose musn't.

Honestly, in my OPINION (please do not flame me!) the organizations that have stayed most on track, in this regard, are the HBGLOs, though I know there have been some minor issues when it comes to initiating non-AFAM aspirants. But, these are generally on an individual basis and are certainly not based in any national position on the issue.

Re: Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

You must be picking my brain Soror Preciousjeni. :D I've experienced this same thing.....

Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

CO-SIGN! There are too many LGLOs out there doing the "flip-flop" these days. I know of so many who have half the membership claiming to be MCGLO and the other half claiming to be LGLO. Along the same lines, there are several MCGLOs whose members will also try to claim LGLO. Some even tried to join NALFO. :confused:

Re: Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

Name names, dammit!

lol j/k

I hope it's not too late to chime in on this discussion. I become one of the founders of a chapter of my sorority because I wanted to start a GLO that not only had a diverse membership (racially, economically, religiously etc.) but was also devoted to promoting multiculturalism through on and off-campus activities. Being a multicultural sorority in Alabama is a struggle at times but I hope that our efforts will rub off on other Greek organizations that remain largely segregated.

Re: Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

This may seem so, but I encourage you to look at both Delta Phi Epsilon and Phi Sigma Sigma in NPC terms. Both of these organizations were founded by women who were not accepted into other NPC organizations because of their religious beliefs.

From the words of DPhiE's founders: Delta Phi Epsilon was formed to "promote good fellowship among the women students among the various colleges in the country...to create a secret society composed of these women based upon their good moral character, regardless of nationality or creed...to have distinct chapters at various colleges..."

In 1917, did these women say no African American women can join? Could be...it was 1917 after all, and I don't know what the African American population was at the universities where Delta Phi Epsil was, but as someone who has been involved in sorority life since 1993, and been an active alumna for more than 7 years, I can honestly say that our chapters are following these words of our founders each day. I can't remember one chapter I've ever been to that has been all white. Not even my own, which is located at a school with about 600 minority students out of 7,000.

But are we "multicultural"? I don't think that was our Founders' intentions...it was their intention to provide women a sorority that wasn't based on nationality or creed.

But enough of my soapbox :)

Re: Re: Why MCGLOs??
 

Oooh I know who you are talking about,lol.

But usually I hear from the members who aren't Latino/a that their organizations are multicultural. Interesting indeed.

It does bother me when I see a GLO that was founded as a HLGLO change from Hispanic Oriented to MC. My Org has many Hispanics that didn't want to joing a HLGLO simply because they wanted to expand their knowledge of other cultures and teach others about theirs. This is something I think HLGLO were seeing start to happen, so they came up with changing their marketing to MC.

I know memembers of such orgs that are considered "old school" and they have told me that they don't agree with this change.

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Honestly, in my OPINION (please do not flame me!) the organizations that have stayed most on track, in this regard, are the HBGLOs, though I know there have been some minor issues when it comes to initiating non-AFAM aspirants. But, these are generally on an individual basis and are certainly not based in any national position on the issue.


I agree with preciousjeni....the only GLO in my opinion that have kept their course since founding is HBGLO. Many others have altered their marketing or started meantioning that they accept all religions. This to me isn't MC. Again, just my opinion.

It does bother me when I see a GLO that was founded as a HLGLO change from Hispanic Oriented to MC. My Org has many Hispanics that didn't want to joing a HLGLO simply because they wanted to expand their knowledge of other cultures and teach others about theirs. This is something I think HLGLO were seeing start to happen, so they came up with changing their marketing to MC.

I know memembers of such orgs that are considered "old school" and they have told me that they don't agree with this change.


I agree with preciousjeni....the only GLO in my opinion that have kept their course since founding is HBGLO. Many others have altered their marketing or started meantioning that they accept all religions. This to me isn't MC. Again, just my opinion.]

This is all interesting. :)

Has anyone ever heard of an Asian oriented GLO changing over, so to speak, and proclaiming that they are a multicultural GLO?

Times, People, and Ideals Change.

If there is an idea, you go with it. If it doesnt work, then you modify to stay Viable.

To keep Your Ideals, do what is necessary to keep the Organization together and in operatation!:) :cool:

absoluteZChi, yes, that is your opinion, but if you have not walked in the shoes?:confused:

Times, People, and Ideals Change.

If there is an idea, you go with it. If it doesnt work, then you modify to stay Viable.

To keep Your Ideals, do what is necessary to keep the Organization together and in operatation!:) :cool:

absoluteZChi, yes, that is your opinion, but if you have not walked in the shoes?:confused:

I don't believe anyone is saying that ANY org in the Greek realm would intentionally discriminate (on the national level). The original post was regarding the existence of multicultural sororities that were founded strictly on multiculturalism.

Just wanted to point out that not all LGLOs did/do this! :)

My organization is a Latina sorority, period. We do not discriminate against non-Latinas, but if they want to pursue membership, they need to do so with the understanding that our focus is on empowering the Latina/o community, and that is not going to change.

No, not at all.

However, some LGLOs have decided to uphold the original ideals of their founders. Nothing wrong with going either way, as long as the ENTIRE membership of the organization knows what direction they are headed. Like I mentioned earlier, it is really sad when one member will say "We're LGLO," and another will say "We're MCGLO." That just looks like disorder in the family, to me.