According to your thought process, it's ok for men to sleep around but not for women because it's "instinctive".

Since it's instinctive for humans to want to reproduce at the age of 12 or 13, I guess we should see more middle schoolers knocked up.

Since it's instinctive for humans to be hunter/gatherers, I guess I should go kill the cows in the pasture down the street and bring it home for my roommate and me to dine on instead of going to the supermarket.

There are plenty of other things out there that are instinctive but what makes us modern-day, mature, human beings is that we can curb all these "instincts" and desires and be productive citizens of society. Calling a woman a whore for sleeping around (or saying that even those who don't sleep around are still whores) is wrong and I think it's lame to try to back it up by saying it's ok for men to do it because it's instinct. I personally would never be with a man who made it his goal to sleep with every girl he meets at some shady bar and I'd laugh in his face if he said to me, "Baby, it's ok that I sleep around. I'm not a slut. It's just instinct!"

Inherently, women don't always want to have sex? Hah. We do always want to. We just tend to shut certain men out when the sex is bad. ;)

Furthermore, I'm sad this thread has turned into another women-bashing thread where we've degenerated into calling all women whores and, once again, praising men who sleep around. I've gotten PMs and reported messages about this thread and, quite honestly, I'm sick of being called a whore just because I'm a woman. I am FAAAAAAR from being a 'whore'. If the discussion continues that all women are whores, I'm going to take out a big old lock and attach it to this thread.

Let's continue with the original intent of this thread which is 'Love Online'.

No more talk about chicks and whoreness....

But....

The reason why you don't see those 12 or 13 yr olds knocked up that often is because of sex ed and the goverment telling you this isnt right and you should wait until the "ideal" age it thinks you should start having kids. 100 to 200 years ago women did have kids that young. The reason why you don't see this anymore is because its not acceptable in our society. Sleeping around, on the other hand, is acceptable.

As for the hunter/gatherer comment; well, if you didnt have someone out there that slaughtered cows for you and brought it to the market place for you to buy...you'd have to do it. About 80 years ago most people in america had to do that if they wanted meat. And thats even if you could find it or afford to slaughter the animal being as we were in the great depression about 80 yrs ago. The grocery store is a luxury if you really think about it. Just because you butcher a cow, pig, deer, whatever it is...that does not mean you are not a modern-day, productive, mature citizen.



You'd never meet a man that would tell you that in real life if he wanted you. You know what they'd do? They lie to you. Happens all the time, everyday. Men lie the most, women tell the biggest lies.

You know what's funny about this disagreement? Cashmoney is right but women just don't want to hear it. Men have an instinct to sleep with as many women as possible...spreading their seed or whatnot. Women have an instinct too...to sleep with the man who has the best characteristics for providing for offspring. A man who is strong, healthy, can feed a family, etc. It's not a bad thing at all, it's just the way it is. I have heard though that men get the nesting instinct as well, it's just later in life (around 30). Or sometimes a man just meets a woman who blows them away and doesn't want her to be with anyone else but him. :)
Now obviously for any man to walk around and be like "it's just my instincts that make me an asshole" is just ridiculous. You do have free will to make choices in how you behave. But I don't really see the point in disagreeing with something that is perfectly natural...you just have to find a man who wants what you want at the same time and it's all good ;)

I met this really hot guy on line. Let me tell you, he was quite a stud and a fraternity guy as well. It didn't work out though because it turned out he was me.

lol...what does this have to do with what we are talking about? :p

Exactly!!!

You know what's really funny about this disagreement?














There's no proof for this concept anywhere, other than the 'common-sense' notion of men making millions of sperm and women only dozens of eggs. This is social conditioning at its finest - fitting the world to fit your views, rather than the other way around.

All people like sex, dudes, that's why we evolved into sexually-stimulated creatures. Societal issues provide the outside pressures. Humans don't use "instinct" anymore, just like we largely don't macro-evolve - you are misusing the word "instinct" to describe tendencies here if you think otherwise.

Here's another theory that carries just as much weight as any other: Anyone, male or female, would be a 'whore' if we existed in a vacuum (ie no one would ever know), and had unlimited access.

I see where you're going with this but you're way off base. The government is not trying to tell kids when the ideal time to have sex is...well okay maybe you're, but many countries do not have abstinence only sex education classes. Canada being one of them (unless you go to a catholic school). Secondly, the reason why women do not get married young and do not have children young is not because it's not socially acceptable. In some parts of the world it is socially acceptable. The main reason is because it is no longer necessary. People got married young and had children young because their life spans were so short. Many people only lived till the age of 40 or so. As medical science advanced, there became no reason to have a child at 14 because you weren't going to die at 40, you'd live to 70. So why not wait till you were 25 to have a child? As society "improved" behaviours changed. It is only later in developments that people decide that certain behaviours are socially inacceptable.

First off, condescension is unnecessary and not appreciated. Maybe that was unintended, but it came across that way to me. Secondly, i'm not a psych expert so maybe my use of words was incorrect. I was using the word instinct to generalize the behavior of most men. I don't think that a pattern of behavior in humans and in animals quite qualifies as anyone fitting the world to their views. I think that ideally (if the world fit to my views) I would like men (actually one guy in particular) to always be at the same place in their life as I am....haha ;) I'm not saying it's a license for anyone to be an asshole, it just explains a few fundamental differences between men and women. I'm not quite sure why you have a problem with that type of thinking, but if natural human behavior is different then we all think it is then please, explain it to us...

Has anyone else noticed this topic has strayed away from "love online?" ;)

We don't? Why then are little boys automatically attracted to/like little girls? Why does a boy ask a girl to be his girlfriend? Parents don't teach their 6 yr old that he is supposed to like little girls...it just happens. Parents surely don't teach their sons that they are supposed to stick the thing between their legs inside a girl. I understand where you are going with ur statement but don't you think it's pretty far-fetched to say we don't use instinct anymore? If someone is trying to kill you and you stop them, is that not instinctive? There are two kinds of animals in this world, predators and prey. Prey have eyes on the side of their head and predators have eyes on the front. We, as humans, are the ultimate predator on this planet. U think we don't still use instinct?

Think about this; In the business world it's either kill or be killed. Someone comes in with a better price/cuts the deal from underneath you/puts your livelyhood in jepordy, what do you do? You figure out a way to beat them. Don't you? Well, that is a form of instinctive behaivor.

abby,

don't be bitter cuz i turned you down for cyber sex. i'm so pimp, i gotta beat the GC hunnies off with my keyboard.

Its instinct to want to have sex. Or more correctly we could call it a drive.

So we have drives. Social conditioning often determines the way we express those drives.


As far as why marriage is delayed now. I think part of it is our evolving society . .. we are encouraging goals now other than settling down and making a family. And we are making them important enough to delay marriage etc.

If you lived iin an area of subsistence, no education, and little industry the idea of creating a family might be the major life goal.

The first world countrieshave changed that a bit. I am not sure its good or bad,

No condescending nature intended, dude, sorry if it came off like that, my bad.

Anyway - I don't think you see this pattern in most animals, as they mate for life, and w/out the 'tryout' period you see in humans.

I totally agree with your 'asshole' comment, but when you say "fundamental nature" you make a lot of assumptions, most of which you're basing on things you see in your everyday life. OK, that's cool, but how do you know you're not extending what people think is 'appropriate' into what is really 'fundamental'?

How can you be sure you're not extending these centuries-old views that men can be sexually liberated, while women must be pure, into some sort of 'natural order' that may or may not exist? I'm just pointing out that there's no proof for this theory at all, it's just conjecture. Perhaps it is correct - but perhaps it is a really backwards-ass way of looking at gender roles.

I'm not sure either way, but while it may seem obvious to say "men are bred for multiple sexual partners" I think that, from science, it's not that simple at all, and it brings in biases that we're born with (almost as strongly as any instincts we've developed).

Why do some little boys ask little girls to be their girlfriend, and then later make out with other boys? Why do they use the word "girlfriend" by rote, when their comprehension of the term can't be anything better than tenuous?

Maybe it's because it is partially learned behavior . . . you see males coupling with females, like your mom and dad or the people on the TV, so you emulate it. That's my point - and sure I was overreaching a bit with the 'no instinct' part, surely we have primal instincts such as your 'fight or flight' example.

I think that the view of males as 'sexual predators' is something learned from societal views on males, shit that stems more from centuries-old customs such as dowries and being a virgin on her wedding night than from hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. Humans are not the ultimate predators, but rather the utlimate omnivores, able to eat almost anything and use the only overdeveloped part of our bodies, the brain, to adapt - our eyes look forward, sure, but more than half of our teeth are flat, a classic herbavore trait. Here, I think we're using this overdeveloped brain to fit science into how we see gender roles play out, and not the other way around.

Then again, I might be wrong too - I just don't want people to think that this stuff is absolute science, b/c it's not, it can really go either way.

In the end, both you and Otter have given really good advice: do you and do it well, and when the time comes that someone else is at that some point, you two can do the couple thing too. That's the important part, not the labels.

I Recently Found Love Online
 

It can happen, and it happened to me. Not only is she pretty, but as a person, she's just so real.





Here are a few pictures of her:

http://tinypic.com/wjomc
http://tinypic.com/wjon9

HAHA! I CHERISH my internet love.

Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

Isnt that Mullet? :confused:

Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

I am LOVING this.

Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

Didn't you meet Bobbythedon on adultfriendfinder.com? Or was it Asianavenue.com?

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

nice to have you back! how was it in Tom Earps closet? Did he feed you atleast?

I don't think most animals mate for life per se. . . I don't know the stats on that.

Male pigeons create brightly colored nests to entice female pigeons. They mate for life. However, when the male pigeon flies off looking for food and such (work) female pigeons will allow enrico to pool-boy pigeon to mate with them. Seriously.

Female pigeons being sluts I suppose. Or at least unfaithful.

There is this cool spider . . . the female eats the males stocmahe when she mats with him the first time and then she kills him when they mate the second time .. . hard on the males.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

I heard Ashton Kutcher is having a hot party for New Years with all sorts of geisha hookers. Is your mom working the fondue table or will she be giving handjobs to the B-movie producers?

-Rudey

Cashmoney, James--

Brake on the nature vs. nurture thing...

There is no difference in the number of hemaphroditic snails that can sexually or asexually reproduce if you were to remove the snails "nads" and force asexual reproduction.

The reason why there is this "instinct" comment is based on chimp and gorrilla studies from 1960's. The male chimp cannot compete for females, therefore he fcuks everything in site. The female chimp releases eggs (or in estrus) every 20 days or so... So, survival of the fittest plays some role there. Gorrillas relatively mate for life--or there is polygamy--the male has a harem of 2-3 females. The females don't leave, ever. So the males don't have to compete in the wild...

The same with our "house mice" in the vivarium. Never mix up males with females after 18 days from birth--within 3 weeks, new pups will be born and you'd have to do something with them... Those are mice.

Only a few animals mate for life: One is a shrew. I believe another is a fish or a bird. And this has nothing to do with fewer numbers or length of pregnancy, etc., etc. No one knows why these animals mate like that when there are separate genders.

So, basically, we cannot apply animal behavioral models on human interactions because there is no concentrated predation by another kingdom of creature on planet Earth...

What is best suited to this kind of discussion is if old men don't have game, then why are all these "viagra-levitra" babies being born (of course to younger women)? So then Cashmoney, your arguement about tail and age goes unsubstantiated...

As far as older women liking various kinds of sex acts, the female libido starts at 20 something and ends at 5-10 years before menopause--premenopause for some women... Although the meneses may start younger and younger for some women, actual ovulation does not start until 11ish... Meaning, you don't have to have menses in order to ovulate. You can ovulate without menses... That's why grandma and great-grandma were physically able to have children at 12 years old and they themselved may have not actually had their periods... But this is not due to the "internal and instinctual reproductive fitness" of a human female, it was due to pedophilia and old farts raping little girls...

And human males do not "natually" want to "instinctually" want to have sex. That is a learned behavior. Sexually and engenderization starts in children by age 1 or 2... By 6, children are well aware of their sex organs because they have had to use them--as taught by their folks when they were potty trained at 2... Kids who like touchy their bodies may be every now and then may be one thing... Its the kids who love to masterbate on themselves and other kids that are what is at issue with your arguement... Ask the trained educators and social workers here...

So whoring is not a biological necessity. There is no logic for it as for reproductive fitness... It is a learned behavior taught by inappropriate behaving adults or teens... And that is what is so hurtful by your statement...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

the other day I was watching Lord of the Rings. Tell your mom I think she got screwed when she didn't get nominated for an Oscar playing Shmeegal.

monogamy is a learned behavior. even the rare cases of monogamy in the animal kingdom, like the elephant shrews, are not monogamous. shrews are more latent pair bonding than being monogamous. if you did a trading spouses Nature, they'd probably behave the same way with the new shrew. even monogamous shore birds have "infidelity."
the difference between us and them is emotion.

Moreover, some creatures have pheremones that induce estrus for reproduction... A human produced pheremone has not been unequivocally shown--but there are aphrodesiacs to take their place...

My main issue is providing a flawed logic in making things that occur naturally as the justification for why some human behavior occurs. One just cannot compare the two. Humans do not operate with the same physiological system as other primates and I do not know why that is... There are similarities. But the differences outweigh the similarities based on greater issues--i.e. smelting ores to build large constructions (maybe) that make the comparison to animals a piss poor argument and judgement call...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

Since we are on the topic of movies, I thought Charlize Theron really portrayed your mom well in Monster. It's always hard to get the overweight hooker roles down well, but she knew what she was doing.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

thanks, I'll let my mom know. btw she is still upset that you gave her herpes, but thats another story. anyways, I was at the supermarket checkout stand and I saw you on the cover of People Magazine arm and arm with the latin guy from Queer eye from the Straight guy. does your friend from Iowa know you are cheating on him?

hahaha... it went from talking about online dating to rudey vs. bobby and cash, james, and others talking about animal sex.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Recently Found Love Online
 

Are you calling me out for being gay because my boy Dennis Rodman refused to let you give him a blowjob?

-Rudey

Since this thread has completely strayed from the original topic, it is now locked.