One of the founders of Gamma Phi Beta's father was a Methodist minister. :D

I have many religions in my family. I was raised Catholic. There were too many things that I didn't agree with in the Catholic church (like being a flaming advocate of a woman having control of her body and her reproductive right). Also I have many gay friends and I had issues with the views on gays and homosexuality.

I have a lot of family members who are AME and Baptists. I have seen too many "so called" Christians that preach one thing and do another...total hypocrites (including a lot of members in my family)

I didn't get married in a church (neither one of us are religious) and I think that might be one reason my estranged father did not come see the first (and probably) only daughter get married. (I am the youngest of 3 girls and I have a brother)

Had MAJOR issues with folx that say: "if you don't worship X way, you are wrong and are going to hell" (or whatever) :rolleyes:

I am not going to tell a person how to worship and

So yeah I am not really down with organized religion at all. I consider myself spiritual more than religious. Kinda bordering on agnostic

I'm Catholic in the South and haven't "walked away" per se from the church, but I don't go nearly as much as I should.

I keep reading about how all the other Catholics have had terrible priests & experiences but I guess I have been lucky not to have experienced that stuff. The only problems I have had are with the type of people who go to my church, but it's not so bad I would stop going. I guess that is one of the good things about being a Catholic in the South, you have to have good priests since Catholicism isn't huge down here.


Just my $.0135694 worth,
Mark

Isn't it a little more complicated than that? There are others whose beliefs about what happens in Commnunion are much like Catholicism's -- Anglicans, particularly Anglo-Catholics particularly come to mind, as well as the Orthodox. Lutheran and Presbyterian/Reformed beliefs are, in some ways, closer to the Catholic view than to other Protestant views.

The way it was always explained to me is that the Eucharist is a sacrament of, among other things, unity. To a Catholic, that specifically means unity in the Church -- being in union not only in belief but in union with a bishop who is in turn in union with the bishop of Rome. To take Communion in a Catholic church when one is not a Catholic implies a unity that does not exist.

The classical difference between the Catholic Church and most Protestant churches in this regard is that the Catholic Church would insist on unity (as described above) before communion, which would then be a sign of the unity that has been achieved. Meanwhile, most Protestant (mainline, at least) churches would insist only on the unity brought about by baptism, maintaining that taking communing together would lead to unity in other areas.

'Course there's always the renegade. Ms. MysticCat and I were taken quite by surprise once when we were invited to a neighbor's son's First Communion at a local Catholic church. The parents told us to be sure to go up for communion with them, which seemed odd, since they knew we weren't Catholics. But right after that, during announcements before the Mass began, Protestants were specifically invited to take Communion. We've been to that church other times for special services (such as funerals) as well as regular Masses, and always that invitation has been made. Friends who are parishioners there told us once that the bishop had told them quite a few times to stop it, but since the priests were Fransicans not directly under the bishops authority, they just kept saying "we'll think about it."

I was raised in the Protestant church. I stopped going when I was 18 because I felt it was forced upon me and feel that most people in my particular church were all preaching BS because they would be all nicey-nice love thy neighbor during the sermon, but as soon as the sermon was over they were all in the back of the church gossiping about each other. Plus they were always nagging about money. One "elder" in the church told my mom when I was away at school I shouldn't be a member anymore because I hadn't been there in awhile giving to the collection plate. I feel being a Social Worker is doing my role in being good and helping people. I don't feel I need a "God" to tell me that.

It's that, plus it's the transubstantion issue to an extent - not all of the faiths view it as communing with Jesus. I'm really really terrible at explaining this, and I've tried on GC before.

I think my biggest issue is that Protestants simply don't have the same belief structure we do - while we may agree on many many things, ultimately, we think there are two different ways to get to Heaven, and that's a pretty big difference.

Then again, according to several US Bishops, I shouldn't be taking Communion either. ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong:

During communion, Catholics believe in transubstantiation meaning there is a *moment* in which the physical bread and wine turn into the body and blood, while keeping the physical characteristics of the former.

LCMS Lutherans believe that the true body and blood is in and with the bread and wine, always. There is no magical moment of change; the bread and wine are not just symbols of the body and blood, they are both things (bread/body wine/blood), always.

Some other denominations believe communion is symbolic in form and meaning, the bread and wine are only reminders.

And (again, correct me if I'm wrong) Catholics believe that not only the faith in Christ's death and resurrection but good works are also required to be saved; that the doctrine of the Catholic Church can be decided on by pope, the church and various traditions within the church along with scripture; and the submission to the authority of the pope to be a "true" member. (I found this info on the lcms.org website)

Mark I have had a similar experience as you. My parents baptized my brother and I Catholic but didn't force us to attend church afterwards. They both had rather strict religious upbringings and in a sense, walked away a bit. My mom still receives communion if we do go to church but my dad just sits back. The rest of my extended family is Catholic but beliefs aren't thrown on us because we don't go to church on Sundays. My grandma wants her grandchildren to all be married in the Catholic church (even though my older cousin and I have said we don't really want to be) but I'm not told I'm going to Hell every time I say something against Catholic belief.

And I guess that's why I didn't like traditional Catholic churches. I felt guilty for being there. Luckily, my Catholic high school teachers weren't too archaic. They had their beliefs but at least they let us ask questions. And some professors even questioned our OWN faith. It was an interesting experience.

I didn't attend masses during college. I went to something called "Celebration" once in a while. Basically it was a church that played out like a Christian Rock show. We sang worship songs for about an hour. No communion, no homily... just singing. And people got really into it.

These days I find myself at the Catholic Newman Center. It's not a church... more like a rec hall. But there is a traditional alter and decor. I like it there because it still follows tradition but with a couple additions. Last night at the student mass, we meditated instead of the priest giving a normal homily. But the community is strong and partly around my age. I wonder why I didn't go to this place before. And I feel welcome and questions seem welcome. So I found my place.

As a general proposition, more or less right, with some omissions.

Catholics believe in transubstantiation as you have described. It should be noted, though, that "transubstantiation" should be distinguished from belief in the "Real Presence." "Real Presence" is the doctrine that the Body and Blood of Christ are "really present" in the Sacrament. "Transubstantiation is one way of describing the specifics of the Real Presence, and is the way taught by the Catholic Church. The "moment" would be when the priest says: "This is my Body.... This is my Blood."

Eastern Orthodox also believe in the Real Presence by saying that the bread and wine truly become the Body and Blood of Christ, but don't try to define it any further, believing that it is a mystery that cannot be explained or described. They also would reject the idea that it happens at a specific moment, saying rather it occurs during the fairly long Eucharistic Prayer in the Divine Liturgy.

All Lutheran churches, not just LCMS, would ascribe to the Real Presence by teaching that the Body and Blood are, at least during the celebration of the Sacrament if not always, present "in, with and under" the bread and wine.

Presbyterian and Reformed churches ascribe to the Real Presence by teaching that, while there is no physical change in the bread and wine, the Body and Blood of Christ are nevertheless joined in a spiritual manner (how is a mystery) so that in communing, the true Body and Blood are actually received as well as the bread and wine.

The other standard Protestant position would be, as you describe, to consider the bread and wine as symbols, thus teaching no belief in the Real Presence.

I'm going to leave these to a Catholic, but I will say that as someone fairly familiar with Catholic teaching, these strike me as rather generalized oversimplifications or even distortions of Catholic teachings.


Thus endeth the lesson for the day. ;)

MysticCat

Thanks for the more thorough explanation! I didn't want to speak for the other Lutherans since I only know for sure what my Synod believes.

Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation which means "the bread and wine are actually transformed into the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, with only the appearances of bread and wine remaining." If you do not believe this, you should not receive Communion in a Catholic Church. It's not hypocrisy. It's doctrine. It's not like the priests are handing out snacks. It's the Body and Blood of Christ. I have attended weddings at Lutheran and Episcopalian Churches and would not consider receiving there because it is not my faith.

If you are really interested in who can receive Communion in a Catholic Church, here is a good website.

Roman Catholics also believe in faith and good works for salvation and the infallibility of the Pope.

To answer the question the thread poses, I never walked away from my faith. I didn't attend Mass for many years, but now I do. I have also been fortunate with having good priests.

The Pope as a man is not infallible - the Pope as an office is. Papal infallibility when the Pope makes a statement "from the chair" -- this has only happened 2-3 times. Ever.

I'm not Catholic but I went to Catholic high school and I asked a priest what was required to get into heaven and he said it was by faith and works. I wasn't asking for my own personal benefit since I believe something else, I was just curious what they believed. Not all Protestant churches go against this though. Many still believe in works for salvation. As I've said before, I go to an independant Baptist church and the main idea there is that salvation is through faith only in Christ. Nothing can be done to earn it, because he already paid for it. Anyway, I'm not trying to covert the masses here, just tell you what we believe. I know there are many different views.

I think that there are some very positive things about the Catholic Church, but other things disturbed me. For example, the sexual abuse scandal wasn't just a matter of a few disturbed priests. The church leadership sometimes ignored and covered it up. Then when that became no longer an option, there was a move to scapegoat homosexual priests, which didn't seem fair either. Some of my friends are gay, and it's bothered me that the Church seems to lack compassion for homosexuals. I'm also unimpressed by the stance on birth control. Cardinal Trujillo's comments about how condoms didn't reduce the spread of AIDS were especially appalling, given that AIDS is a huge problem in sub-saharan Africa.

Oh yeah, and I find people like Fr. McCloskey to be pretty scary too, although you have to carefully read what he's saying: http://www.frmccloskey.com/

Evil and suffering are not of God. Once again, theological issues are so hard to discuss on the computer.

As an Orthodox Christian, my view of women in Christianity might be different from others. I've never had a "persecution complex" or felt like a woman was a second-class citizen since the role that women played in Christianity is always mentioned. Women were the 1st to see the empty tomb and tell the disciples; female saints are honored; and, most importantly, through a woman was salvation brought to the world.

Tom, just so you know, the Orthodox Church is "Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic."

I still believe in God and I still go to church and stuff, but lately Christianity has been turning me off! Why?

1. Many of the people who claim to be Christian. :rolleyes: I know just as many fucked up people who claim to be Christian as those who aren't.
2. The view of men and women and their roles.
3. THE OVER-RELIANCE ON FAITH!
4. The belief that Jesus is the one and only way into heaven.

I'm really trying to gain my faith back, but it isn't working at all! It is so strange that everytime I go to bible study or something, the more I want to run away from the religion!

Have you ever thought of trying a different religion? I don't know if everybody "shops" for religion like I do, but when I still believed in God, I got into Baha'i because it made more sense to me and I just don't really get Christianity even though I was raised protestant.

well, let me weigh in on this topic!!
 

i was raised a southern baptist, but never was baptized because i did not like the church my family attended, i did not hold with their beliefs and did not want to be the hypocrite that my friends who attended the church were. in college i visited mainly methodist and presbyterian churches and found them to be somewhat compatible with my beliefs. i was baptized in the presbyterian church.; so were my two children. my husband and i felt that we needed a change and we visited and then joined the unitarian church. we were members of the largest unitarian church in america, all souls, in tulsa, oklahoma, the bible belt. all souls had a new england look to it and was very traditional. when we moved back to florida, we visited the local unitarian church several times, but this church was waaaay liberal and for a while we were unchurched. we are now back to the presbyterian church. is it perfect? no, but i don't think that there is a perfect fit out there.

What turned me off? Being told I was going to Hell because my religious views are a little more...liberal than some peoples'.

Man look at all the catholics.

I too left the Catholic religion. I went to a private catholic school all my life till college. We had to go to church in school and every sunday or satan would come take your soul, or so my parents made me believe that.

I left because well I was so tired of the same. My husband went to Methodist church and when I went their when I was a senior in HS I just was like wow this is so different. They didnt say the same thing at every mass. I could literally recite what the priest would say the whole mass with the exception of the homily and reading.

I didnt like the fact all through school, grade and high school, they made it seem like everyone else would be going to hell for not being Catholic and every little thing was a sin.

When I came to college I realized I believed in God but I really didnt believe in all the strictness of the Catholic church. I was tired of how they thought they were the only ones and how they were better than everyone, so I left it.

I cant say Ive found a new religion to follow. We moved to the Cleveland area and havent tried out any churches or anything. Like I said before, I believe in God and I do my own thing. Just cause I dont go to church, I dont think Ill be going to hell for that. I pray and everything. I just havent found that spark or whatever. When I find it, then Ill pick that place to call my religion. Right now to me it seems like each religion thinks they are the right ones and I really think none of them are better, but all the same.

MTSUGirl, you have hit the nail on the head!
 

The challenge is finding a church home with believers that will enhance your spritual growth instead of stifling it, and that will challenge you to grow in your walk with Jesus.

It's the pious works that we do (the religion aspect, hence the numerous Christian denominations) that obscures the relationship and leaves many believers disillusioned and disappointed.

May God continue to bless you for your insight and desire to continue and deepen your relationship with Him.

HAHAHAHA I knew this was somewhere on GC. My boyfriend's dad is a WELS pastor. Since everyone on GC knows my political views, and let's face it, I am a feminazi, I think their church is straight-up ridiculous. Anyway, ISUKappa, tell me more about your type of Lutheran. The boyfriend is not overly happy with WELS and I think he knows we're not going anywhere if he stays in that, but he hasn't really looked for a new church too much yet.

Dionysus, I will be praying for you. :(

Funny you mentioned this, b/c my pastor has been doing an awesome series on faith and unbelief, which he started back in November, and will be continuing on over the next few months. PM me if you are interested in getting some tapes on this series, which I will send to you free of charge and postage paid.

In the meantime, have you considered seeking a church home with believers that walk the walk as well as talk the talk?

PM me if you want me to elaborate.

I am a Unitarian-Universalist.

I was born and raised Catholic. My parents, particularly my father, are very conservative Catholics, and I was put into CCD classes and pretty much told that the Protestants were going to Hell. I become a feminist, pro-choice, and supporter of gay rights and pretty much became an atheist. I'm still an atheist, but I have a community of kindred spirits. I really love this church-because no matter what creed or non-creed that you follow, you're welcome.

MTSUGirl and Rain Man pretty much sum up my viewpoint, too. I've been to several different churches/houses of worship, so I feel that I've made a sincere decision, not one based on my family's way of life (even though they followed me! :) ).

Wow, I just kind of stumbled on this topic and I'm glad I did. A lot of interesting viewpoints. I am yet another Catholic who "walked away from the church" for many of the reasons already mentioned. It's nice to know I'm not the only one because for a while, it sure felt like it. Who knows, maybe I'll be back there, I think I just have to continue my search and not just stick with something because it's what I was brought up to believe.

I went with my family to mass on Christmas Eve (if it'll make them happy for a moment) and the Pastor got me so angry. The pews were full and he decided to take up a second collection to reduce the parish debt (understandable)... BUT he looked at the basket afterwards and said, "THAT'S IT?! YOU SHOULD BE GIVING TO YOUR CHURCH FIRST AND YOUR FAMILY SECOND, CHRISTMAS ISN'T ABOUT MONEY AND GIFTS." I'm sorry, but that's over the line. What about being grateful for what is being offered?! :confused:

I once walked out on a church service which passed the basket around THREE times! I understand the first, was a little strained for the one for missions, but left before the third basket got to me. I tithe (as does everyone I know who attends this church), and if they can't manage on that, they need a new accountant!

We usually have two collections. The first is for the upkeep of the church, and the second is for something different each week. This past Sunday in NYC the second collection was for victims of the tsunami. People pulled out their wallets and checkbooks. I never saw so many twenty dollar bills in the basket. Usually, the second collection is for the local schools or charities for the poor.


I never walked away from my Catholic faith, but I didn't attend Mass for about a decade. When I returned to Mass, I felt a sense of inner peace and calm that I had never felt before. I guess it was a matter of timing.

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is still on the conservative/traditional side of Lutheranism but is a bit more in the 21st Century than WELS. Women have the right to vote in congregational matters and can hold an office in the church body that stems beyond Nursery and Sunday School. (I think my parents' church even has a woman Treasurer, oh the HORROR!) They cannot serve as Pastors, but there are many women in the church who go on to become DCEs or Deaconesses and lead through those veins.

Depending on the church, services can run from Straight-from-the-Lutheran-Worship traditional to tambourine-and-trap-set contemporary.

We believe in the Real Presence of the body and blood in and with the bread and wine at communion, and ask that all communicants believe the same. Usually, only LCMS members are able to take communion at an LCMS church and they do not commune while at other denominations. (The huzbin and I have been attending an LCMS church in town since March and have yet to commune because we didn't feel comfortable doing so until we had had a chance to talk to the Pastor, which we just did before Christmas.)

We believe in the Triune God--God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit; each a separate entity but of the same essence.

We believe that it was by God's Grace that he sent his Son to be our Savior, that through Faith in Christ alone we may be saved, and that the Scripture is God's infalliable word and should be the sole rule and norm for Christian doctrine.

A lot more information is on the LCMS website (www.lcms.org).

My sister converted to Catholicism when she married her husband and says, to her, there isn't much difference in the base beliefs between our church and Catholicism.

I saw this thread, read it all, & felt that I had to insert my .02 cents. First of all, there are a lot of people who have issues with the Catholic Church. I too am a Catholic though I don't practice as much as I should. However, I feel that I must raise one point that has been neglected. People walk away for many reasons. I never walked away. I just felt that I had to explore other faiths b/c I too went to a Catholic school. I enjoyed it there but when I was old enough to start questioning certain aspects, I decided to experience other faiths to see what else is being taught. I went to temple w/a Jewish friend, a Pentecostal service, Methodist & Baptist services, Mormon services, & to a service w/some Jehovahs Witnesses. I learned that while beliefs may be different, there is an element of truth to every faith. We may not agree on certain doctrines but I also feel that unless you start a new religion w/your own rules & doctrine, there will always be some part of your faith that you don't necessarily always agree with.

LCMS vs ELCA
 

In theory, ELCA is very similar to LCMS, except women are allowed to be pastors. In practice, that may be another story. :)

Also, re Communion, here's a very good explanation of what we believe (consubstantiation) vs Roman Catholic (transubstantiation).

http://www.fact-index.com/c/co/consubstantiation.html

GP, if you came to the Lutheran Church downtown here, I think you'd be shocked how "Catholic" it is. I always say Lutherans are Catholic Lite, hold the Mary and excessive guilt. ;)

Re: LCMS vs ELCA
 

I would tend to agree with you..

I was raised Episcopal (long story about how my parents arrived there). I always described it as all the pagentry of the catholic church...none of the guilt!

What would expect for a denomination founded because the king wanted a divorce? Zero abasement :)

GP just isn't a big fan of WELS for a number of reasons, ie:

1) They think Catholicism is a cult and the Pope is the antichrist.
2) They think women should be totally submissive to men and aren't allowed to vote in the church.
3) "If your husband wants ________, give it to him, he is your earthly master."

Um, no, no, and HELL NO.

Hahahahaha. I love religion, it's great stuff.


As for me -- I wasn't raised in a very religious family. My father's agnostic and my mother's lapsed Catholic, so the few times I went to church growing up were with friends or my mom's parents (actually, I even went to church camp for a week when I was ten). Around the time that I was 11 or 12, I just realized that Christianity didn't make sense to me. I've been all over the place on what I believe since then, but I know that I don't believe in Christianity or most of the other major religions. I've been calling myself a deist since I was about 14, because my religious beliefs align most closely with that. I studied a lot of religions this summer and realized that I agree with the main precepts of Buddhism, but I'm not really sure that I'm ready to commit to any organized religion, so I'm going to stick with what I have for now.

I tiptoe around the borders of Catholicism and peer over the fence into Reform Judaism!

Catholicism makes me feel "at home" since it's what I was raised in, but the beliefs of Judaism really call out to me...

I cannot tolerate a faith in which women are not deemed worthy to preach and serve, in which my reproductive rights are battered and threatened, in which homosexuals are seen as an abomination, and abortion unaccepted...

I am not saying this isn't applicable to other faiths, but this is what I know....

Re: LCMS vs ELCA
 

Meh. Y'all are a buncha long-haired hippy freaks with your women Pastors and your "we let everyone commune with us!" ideals. But you still rock the jell-o and the hot-dishes, so ELCA can't be all bad.

:p ;)

why i left the catholic church...

i went to catholic school grades k-8. i switched from one school to another in grade 7.

1. age 8- got in trouble on a monday for not attending church the day before. when i said that my parents didn't take me, the nun told me i should have walked.

2. age 10- we were discussing the israelites being called the chosen ones and i asked if they were the chosen ones, then why do we (as catholics) say that we are the only right religion and everyone else is going to hell. i got in trouble for asking.

3. somewhere before grade 7- we had a children's mass on the first friday of every month which was solely attended by the children of the school, the parents of the kids we were
readers and maybe a few little old ladies. the homily was all about how jesus wanted us to give more money to the church. the priest actually related it back to the bible.

4. age 13- i had already switched schools and was becoming a little more comfortable with this school's take on religion. then, a nun, who i totally respected until this incident, told us in health class that if a woman is raped and gets pregnant it is because she enjoyed it. i just about fell out of my chair. this was the last straw for me.

today, i am a "maria-ist." essentially, i believe in god and jesus. i believe that god is not in a building, but is always with you. i also believe that you have to be a good person 100% of the time, not just the 45 minutes you are in a church (as many people believe.) i have felt drawn to judaism, but have not done enough research to decide if i truly would be able to convert.

So, does one wonder, is a Relegion a Communist, Pinko Prevert conspirsicy to under mine the relationship of of the Eveloution Movement as what is The Hot Topic for the Schools Systems in Kansas. :eek: :o

OOh My God, who said God did what he did in 6 days and rested on the 7 th.

Gentiles figure Sunday is the Day for rest.

OOH My god, who told God how long a day was?

OOH, is there really a boat on top of Arrafat? Or what ever!

Well, I guess it is all Bull Shit!

Beleive what you may, it is in the eye of the beholder!:)

I stopped calling myself a Christian/Baptist about 4 or 5 years ago and became a free spirit in search for another way. I still attended church and then I stopped attending a little while back. Since then, I've been doing research and finally found another religious path to take. My reason for leaving Christianity is because they aren't about God anymore and I realize they never were. They spend too much of their time criticizing and judging people for what that do and what they believe in, that it takes away the purpose of being a christian. And also, as I did my research I realized that there was something that I never did take within myself into believing that Jesus was the only way and never did I ever believe nor treat him as he was God himself. Therefore, the Holy Trinity never made sense to me and I realize that even as a Christian, I never believed in it. So that be the case, I now reject the Trinity. GOD is GOD, and any other being is not.

Imperial1