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Drolefille 06-06-2007 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by christiangirl (Post 1461906)
Administration TOLD us that's the rule, but I've never seen it written down, either!
http://www.snopes.com/college/admin/wait.asp

I suspect they just wanted you to show up.

AKA_Monet 06-06-2007 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvySpice (Post 1461623)
I have the greatest respect for HBCU's and the many extraordinary leaders they've produced, but what you're saying about the Ivy League just isn't true. As of 2005, the black graduation rate at Harvard is the highest in the country, higher than any HBCU. In fact, all 8 Ivy League schools have higher black graduation rates than the HBCU with the highest black graduation rate (Spelman).

http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blac...gradrates.html
Soror, based on my assessment of the article, it clearly states the following:

Quote:
For many years Harvard University, traditionally one of the nation's strongest supporters of affirmative action, has produced the highest black student graduation rate of any college or university in the nation. But for some unexplained and possibly immaterial reason, Harvard slipped to second place in 2004. But now Harvard's black student graduation rate has increased to 95 percent, once again the highest among U.S. colleges and universities.
and

Quote:
We come now to a most disappointing set of statistics. The graduation rate of African-American students at the nation's historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) tends to be much lower than the graduation rate for black students at the nation's highest-ranked institutions. Yet the graduation rate at a significant number of HBCUs is well above the nationwide average for black student graduations, which, as stated earlier, currently stands at an extremely low rate of 42 percent.

By a large margin, the highest black student graduation rate at a historically black college belongs to the academically selective, all-women Spelman College in the city of Atlanta. In fact, the Spelman black student graduation rate of 77 percent is higher than the black student graduation rate at 13 of the nation's 56 high-ranking predominantly white colleges and universities referred to earlier. Spelman's unusual strength shows in the fact that it has a higher black student graduation rate than such prestigious and primarily white colleges as Bates, Colby, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Claremont McKenna, and Carnegie Mellon.

Following Spelman in the rankings, the next-highest black student graduation rate among the HBCUs was at Morehouse College and Fisk University. At Morehouse and Fisk, 64 percent of the entering black students go on to graduate within six years. Hampton University, Miles College, Howard University, and Elizabeth City State University in North Carolina sadly are the only other HBCUs that graduate at least half of their black students within six years.
How many non-ivy league schools can compare to those like Harvard? And what actual statistical measurements are they ranking. Those rates of Black students graduating from a "Harvard" percentage compared to those Black students graduating from the highest graduating ranked "Spelman" school. And the numbers for comparison are suspect.

They obtained the data from the NCAA--National Collegiate Athletic Association and analyzed by the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education... I find it extremely convenient for them to obtain and analyze stats from NCAA then say it is Dept. of Education records. Dept. of Ed. does not = NCAA.

At the last 4 universities I worked in 3 states, the retention and graduation rates of all identified African American students had dismal results.

Or, that could be the thing about Harvard, once they admit you, they will make sure you graduate in something... It may not be your first choice in your goal, but you will succeed in something, even though it is "underwater basketweaving".

The HBCU's do not readily pass folks in classes, nor do they care about your ability to pay, on time, even if they have the financial aid check... I know my professors would be flunking entire classes... And don't skip class, or rather don't get caught skipping...

DSTCHAOS 06-06-2007 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by christiangirl (Post 1461906)
Administration TOLD us that's the rule, but I've never seen it written down, either!
The "15 minute rule" is a staple of most college classrooms. But it isn't an official administrative guideline but rather a generic guideline, of sorts.

Instructors have their own guidelines for student attendance and often tell students that they can go by the "15 minute rule" just because it's familiar to most people. Universities don't penalize students at the micro-level of class attendance. Instructors do.

The only time the administration of most colleges and universities have guidelines for class attendance is when it comes to inclement weather and holiday policies.

CrimsonTide4 06-06-2007 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltaheart (Post 1461898)
I too was a member of the no reservation or no room in the inn. I had to stay at the Bellmont for 3 weeks until students were dropped for non payment. No car (freshmen were not able to have cars on campus), no family (from California) and no room. I had to learn to adapt and adapt quickly. Southern taught me life experiences that I would have never recieved at any other college. I was pretty much sheltered through out my childhood years. The schools i attended were a melting pot. I lacked that Black experience. Although I may have complained about the experience while I was there at SU. I would never give it back. (even the long lines in Seymour Gym through registration)

Much love goes out to HBCU's who are building our youth today......especially go JAGS
Deltaheart, eh? Introduce yourself if you are a member of DST. We like to know who we're chatting with.

IvySpice 06-06-2007 08:50 AM
First, I have to identify myself as a non-D9 member. I chose this username before I realized that it might be misinterpreted as an AKA or Alpha Phi identifier. So please forgive me if I was misleading; I don't mean to misrepresent myself as a member of your great org.

Second, getting to the point :),

Quote:
How many non-ivy league schools can compare to those like Harvard?
About 20 of them, according to the article, plus another 12 or 15 small colleges. My original post was responding to a specific statement about the Ivy Leagues that was incorrect. The Ivy League school with the lowest black graduation rate is Cornell at 83%. This is better than the HBCU with the highest graduation rate. Even if you believe that Harvard is handing out degrees in "underwater basketweaving" to all comers, do you believe that about Caltech, MIT, Rice, and Notre Dame, all of which have higher black graduation rates than any HBCU?

My point is this. HBCUs are the best choice for many students for a long list of reasons, many of which satisfied alumni have already pointed out on this thread. But high graduation rates are not on the list. The majority of students at the HBCUs with the highest graduation rates (such as Spelman, Morehouse, Howard, Fisk, and Hampton could go to top-20 PWIs like Harvard if they wanted to, so it really doesn't matter to them that the black graduation rate at fourth-tier PWIs is pitiful. The students we're talking about are choosing between HBCUs and the Ivy League et al., and the Ivy Leagues are doing a very good job of graduating their black students. That doesn't mean it's wrong to choose an HBCU over an Ivy -- it just means that it's wrong to suggest that "piss poor" black graduation rates at the Ivies ought to be a factor in the decision.

Quote:
I find it extremely convenient for them to obtain and analyze stats from NCAA then say it is Dept. of Education records. Dept. of Ed. does not = NCAA
The NCAA is required to collect and report the data according to guidelines set by the Department of Education. That's why the data can be considered both NCAA and DoE statistics.

http://www.psu.edu/ur/archives/inter.../gradrate.html (scroll to the bottom of the page)

Do you have any reason to doubt that the NCAA information is accurate? I trust that the folks at JBHE know what they're talking about.

DSTCHAOS 06-06-2007 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1461909)
http://www.snopes.com/college/admin/wait.asp

I suspect they just wanted you to show up.
LOL. I advise people to NOT follow snopes' documentation of waiting times based on ranking. It will fail almost everytime. Most instructors don't care about ranking differences when it comes to students. We are at a higher ranking/power differential than undergrads and that's all that matters.

sidebar:
I had an undergrad professor who was late right before a big exam. We waited a while and left. He punished us by first chastising us via email, then at the next class session, and finally refusing to give us an exam review. Some professors will show up late and keep you extra long to make up for their lateness. Students really aren't REQUIRED to stay past the class time. However, I understand how students who don't have another class to attend or work, are afraid to walk out and potentially get penalized. That's bad ethics to try to bully your students and not ASK them if they are able to stay an extra 20 minutes to finish up material.

KAPital PHINUst 06-06-2007 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1461753)
I pledged and I graduated from Central State University. Across the street from Wilberforce University. CSU was so unorganized that most of the upper classman including me had to stay in hotels. I liked it though, because we had cable, air, and cleaning services.:D
What's up, Nupe? I was a student at Central State for one quarter (Fall '94). Yes, I remember that CSU was very unorganized, and when I had my books stolen, a student body mentality that really didn't promote academics over socializing, AND the fact that I had a 4.0 accum and they weren't gonna give me no scholarship(s), I had to bounce.

I remember the students having to live in hotels in nearby Springfield; I even remember visiting some of the students at the hotels back in '96 (btw, this was because they condemned 5 of the 9 dormitories on campus--the freshmen and upperclass male dorms, the jock dorm, and the nerd dorm).

But fortunately, this didn't sour my perception of HBCUs as a whole; I just realized that I attended a poorly ran HBCU at a bad time.

DSTCHAOS 06-06-2007 09:13 AM
LOL.

KAPital PHINUst 06-06-2007 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1461942)

sidebar:
I had an undergrad professor who was late right before a big exam. We waited a while and left. He punished us by first chastising us via email, then at the next class session, and finally refusing to give us an exam review. Some professors will show up late and keep you extra long to make up for their lateness. Students really aren't REQUIRED to stay past the class time. However, I understand how students who don't have another class to attend or work, are afraid to walk out and potentially get penalized. That's bad ethics to try to bully your students and not ASK them if they are able to stay an extra 20 minutes to finish up material.
I would recommend this for students who had several cancelled classes by any one professor (especially if you are paying tuition out of pocket).

Ask for a prorated tuition refund for each class session(s) that had to be cancelled by the professor. Why are you paying your hard earned $$ for a professor to NOT show up? That doesn't make sense.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread....

Infamous12 06-06-2007 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst (Post 1461948)
I would recommend this for students who had several cancelled classes by any one professor (especially if you are paying tuition out of pocket).

Ask for a prorated tuition refund for each class session(s) that had to be cancelled by the professor. Why are you paying your hard earned $$ for a professor to NOT show up? That doesn't make sense.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread....
*wish I would've thought of that*

DSTCHAOS 06-06-2007 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous12 (Post 1461951)
*wish I would've thought of that*

It won't work at every institution. :)

KAPital PHINUst 06-06-2007 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1461954)
It won't work at every institution. :)
Twist the right person's arm hard enough and long enough, and trust, it'll work at any institution.

If all else fails, bring in the heavy reinforcements:

THE NEWS MEDIA

(after all, colleges are businesses too, you want everyone to know you are getting ripped off, don't you?) ;)

DSTCHAOS 06-06-2007 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst (Post 1461957)
Twist the right person's arm hard enough and long enough, and trust, it'll work at any institution.

If all else fails, bring in the heavy reinforcements:

THE NEWS MEDIA

(after all, colleges are businesses too, you want everyone to know you are getting ripped off, don't you?) ;)
Like I said, it won't work at every institution.

UNTIL you jump through those hoops (you said "ask for" like it was that simple). And it still might not work after all of that.

Which is why most students won't ever think of that or won't have the desire to go through with it. Just like why people in the working world often don't complain about unfair practices and being ripped off or discriminated against. Too much intentional bureaucratic red tape. Universities and other businesses do that on purpose and know that people won't jump through those hoops due to time or lack of patience. That's why schools make tons of money off of unreasonable tuition and fee expenses every semester.

Missam05 06-06-2007 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubian (Post 60264)
I attend a Historically Black College in Texas, recently I caught up with some of my former high school classmates and we did the usual catching up, "Where do you go to school", "Are you seeing anyone" yadda, yadda.

Well, when I mentioned what school I attend one of the girls said, and I quote "oooh no I couldn't go there girl, too many Black people(yes she is African-American) I don't know how you put up with it" Needless to say I had a few choice words for her.
First of all I am very proud of my school and this young lady(and I use the term loosely) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif made it seem like I am settling for less. I was recruited and offered scholarships by "Ivy League" schools but I chose the one I did because I felt I would be more than a number to the faculty. While I don't feel I should have to justify my decision to her or anyone else, it still angered me that she thought she was recieveing a higher quality education just because her school is predominantly white. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Has anyone else out there ever dealt with this type of ignorance?

Luv,
Me
Always. As if an HBCU is less than any other school. I've learned to ignore their ignorance. I have what they have (quality education, good paying job, memorable experiences, etc.) and that's all that matters.

Drolefille 06-06-2007 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1461942)
LOL. I advise people to NOT follow snopes' documentation of waiting times based on ranking. It will fail almost everytime. Most instructors don't care about ranking differences when it comes to students. We are at a higher ranking/power differential than undergrads and that's all that matters.

sidebar:
I had an undergrad professor who was late right before a big exam. We waited a while and left. He punished us by first chastising us via email, then at the next class session, and finally refusing to give us an exam review. Some professors will show up late and keep you extra long to make up for their lateness. Students really aren't REQUIRED to stay past the class time. However, I understand how students who don't have another class to attend or work, are afraid to walk out and potentially get penalized. That's bad ethics to try to bully your students and not ASK them if they are able to stay an extra 20 minutes to finish up material.
Oh yeah, I wouldn't encourage it either. I think it's unfortunate that most teachers don't address what to do if THEY are the late ones in their syllabuses. Most people in my classes can't stay late, and if they drive from 45 miles away only to have a teacher not show up, they're way more pissed than the people in town.
I've always given the 15 minutes (although I know plenty of people who try to follow the rankings and stay a shorter period of time) and it's always been for a good reason, but I hate to see bad teachers abuse a class for it.

christiangirl 06-06-2007 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst (Post 1461957)
Twist the right person's arm hard enough and long enough, and trust, it'll work at any institution.

If all else fails, bring in the heavy reinforcements:

THE NEWS MEDIA

(after all, colleges are businesses too, you want everyone to know you are getting ripped off, don't you?) ;)
Forget the media...I'd call my daddy. We may not lilke each other, but he'll be there if there's a good fight involved. Most people have big momma tell administration about themselves, but Mommy CG is too nice. All my refunds seemed to straighten out within 24 hours after a call from my daddy. ;)


For real, I see what you mean. I think the administration scared the students into never calling the media, saying we didn't want to be responsible for more negative black images on the news, did we? So, we used to call the campus news station to cover our student protests and we were always able to work out some sort of deal when the cameras were there. However, as of last month, we no longer have a campus television network for "lack of funding." :mad: :mad: :mad: Should've seen that one coming, man...it was only a matter of time.

AKADIVA12 06-06-2007 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1459414)
This takes me back to the day went I when I first took my daughter to Howard. I scheduled myself stay the week at the Howard Inn next to the school. You HU alumni/ae know how long ago that must have been - LOL.

The first day was orientation and getting settled in her dorm room. She, a high school friend of mine whose son was starting there, too, did the obligatory rent the mini-fridge, by bedding and accessories from JC Penny, get cleaning materials, get a fan since there was no AC, etc.

The next day was registration. My daughter was like okay Mom I can handle this you should not have planned to stay so long. When i told her I wasn't leaving early she became a little disgruntled. And the fact that the dorm room looked like crap didn't help her mood.

Well we go to the Admissions Office to make sure all the money is paid so she can register for classes. We stand in a long line and the whole time she is like rolling her eyes with the attitude I can't believe I am here with my Mom--I'm not a child anymore. We finally get to the desk and lo and behold they had no record of my tuition payment--the dorm room payment, yes, the tuition, no. So we were sent over to another line. I am getting p***ed and she is getting scared. We are standing in line and I know I had THE LOOK on my face.

Suddenly a woman came up to us and said come with me and took us out of the line. She said I noticed your Delta necklace. I am a soror, how can I help you? I told her the problem, she searched found the info all in the matter of a few minutes. She then hugged me and told me if we needed anything else just ask for her.

Well, because of the delay, by the time she got to the front of the registration line which had wound around the campus, most of her classes were filled. I went back to the soror in Admissions, she connected me to the then Interim Dean of the School of Communications who was also a soror. Daughter got her classes.

Needless to say she was estactic to have me there the rest of the week. LOL

Hmmmm, I guess this really is more than just about registration at a HBCU. It probably also belongs in the 1913 thread, huh?
Okay I'm having flashbacks. The Howard University Inn, Dr. Merritt was the Dean of the School of C (as we called it then). Take me back to the early
90s. LOL.

I attended Howard as a grad student, and couldn't understand how students whose tuition was not paid up to date could continue to attend classes. After their tuition was paid they were "validated" and could receive credit for the class. I had come from a PWI and had never seend anything like it.

If I had it to do over again, I probably would have switched the order, HBCU for undergrad, PWI for grad. While I got some of the HBCU experience there was so much more to experience.

orighu 06-06-2007 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1459414)
This takes me back to the day went I when I first took my daughter to Howard. I scheduled myself stay the week at the Howard Inn next to the school. You HU alumni/ae know how long ago that must have been - LOL.

The first day was orientation and getting settled in her dorm room. She, a high school friend of mine whose son was starting there, too, did the obligatory rent the mini-fridge, by bedding and accessories from JC Penny, get cleaning materials, get a fan since there was no AC, etc.

The next day was registration. My daughter was like okay Mom I can handle this you should not have planned to stay so long. When i told her I wasn't leaving early she became a little disgruntled. And the fact that the dorm room looked like crap didn't help her mood.

Well we go to the Admissions Office to make sure all the money is paid so she can register for classes. We stand in a long line and the whole time she is like rolling her eyes with the attitude I can't believe I am here with my Mom--I'm not a child anymore. We finally get to the desk and lo and behold they had no record of my tuition payment--the dorm room payment, yes, the tuition, no. So we were sent over to another line. I am getting p***ed and she is getting scared. We are standing in line and I know I had THE LOOK on my face.

Suddenly a woman came up to us and said come with me and took us out of the line. She said I noticed your Delta necklace. I am a soror, how can I help you? I told her the problem, she searched found the info all in the matter of a few minutes. She then hugged me and told me if we needed anything else just ask for her.

Well, because of the delay, by the time she got to the front of the registration line which had wound around the campus, most of her classes were filled. I went back to the soror in Admissions, she connected me to the then Interim Dean of the School of Communications who was also a soror. Daughter got her classes.

Needless to say she was estactic to have me there the rest of the week. LOL

Hmmmm, I guess this really is more than just about registration at a HBCU. It probably also belongs in the 1913 thread, huh?

Ah the good ole HU days..... yeah, I remember those days fondly - but i learned alot during those days at registration - patience, negotiating, patience, networking, did i say patience :D

RitaMae1908 06-06-2007 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live_Wire17 (Post 1459377)
YUP! Jags baby!!
I'm so glad.. I went to Southern U...da dun da dun da dun da.. I'm so glad.. I went to Southern U...:D


On a more serious note...
I also was accepted to and offered scholarships to several PWI but decided to attend an HBCU. Both my parents are products of HBCUs so I figured if it was good enough for them, why not me? They're both successful and highly respected in their professions. I would not trade my HBCU education or my experiences during my matriculation there for anything, they ultimately made me the woman I am today. I can not say that I would have turned out the same had I chosen to go to a PWI. And contrary to popular belief I was able to find a job soon after graduating!

ladygreek 06-06-2007 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKADIVA12 (Post 1462330)
Okay I'm having flashbacks. The Howard University Inn, Dr. Merritt was the Dean of the School of C (as we called it then). Take me back to the early
90s. LOL.
I was talking about Janette Dates. Maybe she was the assistant dean and not interim at the time. But I do know at some point she became interim and is now the dean of the School of C.

My daughter started off in journalism, but the School added advertising her sophomore year, so that is what she majored in.

AKADIVA12 06-07-2007 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1462441)
I was talking about Janette Dates. Maybe she was the assistant dean and not interim at the time. But I do know at some point she became interim and is now the dean of the School of C.

My daughter started off in journalism, but the School added advertising her sophomore year, so that is what she majored in.
Okay, I didn't read thuroughly because I neglected to see interim. Dr. Merritt was/is a delta and was the dean when I was there. Dang I've aged myself even more. Oh well.

ladygreek 06-07-2007 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKADIVA12 (Post 1462497)
Okay, I didn't read thuroughly because I neglected to see interim. Dr. Merritt was/is a delta and was the dean when I was there. Dang I've aged myself even more. Oh well.
No same time period. Like I said Dr. Dates was probably the assistant dean at the time. She is who helped us.

AKA_Monet 06-07-2007 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvySpice (Post 1461941)
About 20 of them, according to the article, plus another 12 or 15 small colleges. My original post was responding to a specific statement about the Ivy Leagues that was incorrect. The Ivy League school with the lowest black graduation rate is Cornell at 83%. This is better than the HBCU with the highest graduation rate. Even if you believe that Harvard is handing out degrees in "underwater basketweaving" to all comers, do you believe that about Caltech, MIT, Rice, and Notre Dame, all of which have higher black graduation rates than any HBCU?
Most Ivy Leagues are universities with secondary degrees. They are calculating these numbers from the graduate school education. Most grad schools only admit those students they plan to graduate, period... It does not look good if they flunk students out in grad school. No where in the report I read indicated they only have Undergraduate numbers. So the comparion to HBCU vs. Ivy Leage numbers is unfair, even if we are talking the HBCU that have graduate programs. There are now ~10 schools: Howard, Meharry, Morehouse Med, Atlanta U., FAMU, Bethune-Cookman :eek: :D and I think Virginia Union. There are a few others, but I don't remember off hand. Spelman, since I graduated there and donate all my Alumnae money to, does not have a graduate school...

Quote:
My point is this. HBCUs are the best choice for many students for a long list of reasons, many of which satisfied alumni have already pointed out on this thread. But high graduation rates are not on the list. The majority of students at the HBCUs with the highest graduation rates (such as Spelman, Morehouse, Howard, Fisk, and Hampton could go to top-20 PWIs like Harvard if they wanted to, so it really doesn't matter to them that the black graduation rate at fourth-tier PWIs is pitiful. The students we're talking about are choosing between HBCUs and the Ivy League et al., and the Ivy Leagues are doing a very good job of graduating their black students. That doesn't mean it's wrong to choose an HBCU over an Ivy -- it just means that it's wrong to suggest that "piss poor" black graduation rates at the Ivies ought to be a factor in the decision.
But based on the total population that the Ivies have and graduation rates they claim in this report do not correlate with the numbers I have read or calculated. Yes, 8 out of 10 are graduating--but out a population of 100 where half drop out? That is an unfair correlation. This was a prospective study, after data was calculated and it was a cross-sectional. A snapshot is showing a pretty picture. But when you make the comparison to non-Af Am students, it is a poorer prognosis for self-ID'ed AfAm students.



Quote:
The NCAA is required to collect and report the data according to guidelines set by the Department of Education. That's why the data can be considered both NCAA and DoE statistics.

http://www.psu.edu/ur/archives/inter.../gradrate.html (scroll to the bottom of the page)

Do you have any reason to doubt that the NCAA information is accurate? I trust that the folks at JBHE know what they're talking about.
These rates are almost 10 years old. How are they significant today? Then they were developed by a nonHBCU school. Yet, still it is used as a marketing tool against HBCU's even if it is subliminal. "We have better graduation rates if you attend here vs. Spelman..." "Blah Blah Blah..."

And people buy into this "excellent education" at a quasi Ivy League school to make a misconceived quota one must fulfill. Well, with marketing and targeting like this without full examination of the data by professionals--and yes, I am one of them, to query significant questions, you dayum right I am not trusting anything these folks say at first glance. Also, I have young people coming to my office constantly crying as to the isolation they feel while attending these schools. No, I don't do these kind of formal research projects, I do more biomedical ones, but I still educate students and am forced to do Black College Professor teaching on these same students that I know still exists in the classrooms at HBCU's...

So, when I recommend schools to high school folks, I ask them, do you want to stay home, or do you want to go away?

Sugar08 06-08-2007 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1462441)
I was talking about Janette Dates. Maybe she was the assistant dean and not interim at the time. But I do know at some point she became interim and is now the dean of the School of C.

My daughter started off in journalism, but the School added advertising her sophomore year, so that is what she majored in.
Wow, Dean Dates! I was a journalism major at Howard... although I have friends who were in advertising.

Ceekit 06-08-2007 12:23 PM
My undergraduate experience was spent at University of Maryland (Go Terps!!) eventhough it was not my first choice. I thought that I was going to be attending Bowie State University because they were going to give me money for playing basketball. Well, they somehow ran out of money and I didn't see paying to play for them when I could get free tuition at the school that my mom worked at. It didn't matter to me which school I went to, as long as they had my major. However I did attend Bowie for grad school. I did see big difference in the administration and the attitude from the instructors between the schools but I don't know if I was just stereotyping or if it was fact.

Ceekit 06-08-2007 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA_Monet (Post 1462579)
Most Ivy Leagues are universities with secondary degrees. They are calculating these numbers from the graduate school education. Most grad schools only admit those students they plan to graduate, period... It does not look good if they flunk students out in grad school. No where in the report I read indicated they only have Undergraduate numbers. So the comparion to HBCU vs. Ivy Leage numbers is unfair, even if we are talking the HBCU that have graduate programs. There are now ~10 schools: Howard, Meharry, Morehouse Med, Atlanta U., FAMU, Bethune-Cookman :eek: :D and I think Virginia Union. There are a few others, but I don't remember off hand. Spelman, since I graduated there and donate all my Alumnae money to, does not have a graduate school...



But based on the total population that the Ivies have and graduation rates they claim in this report do not correlate with the numbers I have read or calculated. Yes, 8 out of 10 are graduating--but out a population of 100 where half drop out? That is an unfair correlation. This was a prospective study, after data was calculated and it was a cross-sectional. A snapshot is showing a pretty picture. But when you make the comparison to non-Af Am students, it is a poorer prognosis for self-ID'ed AfAm students.





These rates are almost 10 years old. How are they significant today? Then they were developed by a nonHBCU school. Yet, still it is used as a marketing tool against HBCU's even if it is subliminal. "We have better graduation rates if you attend here vs. Spelman..." "Blah Blah Blah..."

And people buy into this "excellent education" at a quasi Ivy League school to make a misconceived quota one must fulfill. Well, with marketing and targeting like this without full examination of the data by professionals--and yes, I am one of them, to query significant questions, you dayum right I am not trusting anything these folks say at first glance. Also, I have young people coming to my office constantly crying as to the isolation they feel while attending these schools. No, I don't do these kind of formal research projects, I do more biomedical ones, but I still educate students and am forced to do Black College Professor teaching on these same students that I know still exists in the classrooms at HBCU's...

So, when I recommend schools to high school folks, I ask them, do you want to stay home, or do you want to go away?
North Carolina A&T has a graduate school too.

Ceekit 06-08-2007 12:39 PM
I remember two things that bothered my while I was at Bowie. I have one professor tell me that when we take breaks, you should take your stuff with you because people will steal your stuff, and another professor told us that the bookstore prices were high because students were stealing books.

ladygreek 06-08-2007 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceekit (Post 1463290)
I remember two things that bothered my while I was at Bowie. I have one professor tell me that when we take breaks, you should take your stuff with you because people will steal your stuff, and another professor told us that the bookstore prices were high because students were stealing books.
Those professors told you the truth. Why did it bother you? It was the same at my PWI.

Ceekit 06-08-2007 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1463296)
Those professors told you the truth. Why did it bother you? It was the same at my PWI.
I never had that experience at UMCP and I figured that they were making it up. The books were significantly marked up. And I never took my book with me when I went to the bathroom.

Lyoness 06-08-2007 05:11 PM
This Is Why I Went to and HBCU
 
My mom sent me this. It's 2007 and don't forget to read the comment at the bottom. Same thing was going on at IU in 1999 when I almost went.

http://thepost.baker.ohiou.edu/artic...ews/20405.html

IvySpice 06-08-2007 09:53 PM
Quote:
Most Ivy Leagues are universities with secondary degrees. They are calculating these numbers from the graduate school education.
No, they are not. These are undergraduate numbers, not aggregated across the graduate schools. The link explicitly states that it refers to completion of four-year college degrees:

http://www.jbhe.com/preview/winter07preview.html

Even if you believe that the JBHE is, for some mysterious reason, secretly including graduate school data for the Ivy Leagues, that would not explain why PWIs such as Amherst, Wellesley, Williams, Smith, Hamilton, and Swarthmore, all of which have no graduate programs, all have (much) higher black student graduation rates than the highest-peforming HBCU. Amherst is almost identical to Harvard on this measure.

Quote:
But based on the total population that the Ivies have and graduation rates they claim in this report do not correlate with the numbers I have read or calculated.
OK, why don't you share the numbers you have read or calculated? What's your source?

Quote:
Yes, 8 out of 10 are graduating--but out a population of 100 where half drop out? That is an unfair correlation.
What do you mean? This is the number of entering freshman who receive a bachelor's degree within 6 years. If you drop out, then you're counted as not graduating. How is that an "unfair correlation"?

Quote:
But when you make the comparison to non-Af Am students, it is a poorer prognosis for self-ID'ed AfAm students.
JBHE addresses that issue in the article: it ranks PWIs not only by the black graduation rate, but by the differential between white and black graduation rates. Some PWIs, like Cornell, don't do as well on this measure, but 20 PWIs have a differential of 5 points or less. Mt Holyoke actually graduates its black students at a higher rate than its white students.

http://www.jbhe.com/features/50_blac...gradrates.html

Quote:
These rates are almost 10 years old. How are they significant today?
No, the JBHE data is from 2005. I cited the PSU page solely to support my point that the NCAA and DOE data are one and the same.

Quote:
you dayum right I am not trusting anything these folks say at first glance.
OK, then let's keep taking glances. Why is the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education "these folks" and therefore untrustworthy? What do you think their agenda is?

Quote:
I have young people coming to my office constantly crying as to the isolation they feel while attending these schools.
That's a great reason for those students to attend HBCUs. There are many great reasons. But higher black graduation rates compared to PWIs is not one of them.

Ten/Four 06-08-2007 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladygreek (Post 1462530)
No same time period. Like I said Dr. Dates was probably the assistant dean at the time. She is who helped us.
They are both still there, and both are great.

Ladygreek, you are just like my mom. I didn't have any problems with moving in and registration, but with getting one of my grades posted after my first semester. I tried being an adult with the professor, but she took her sweet time posting my grade. This went on for a few weeks into the spring semester. I gave up and finally let my mom handle it. They gave my mom the round around to but she called had Swygert's office directly. That grade was posted within a few days. Come to find out there was a clitch in the computer system (it had just gone online). We left about it now, but I was mad as heck at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA_Monet (Post 1462579)
There are now ~10 schools: Howard, Meharry, Morehouse Med, Atlanta U., FAMU, Bethune-Cookman :eek: :D and I think Virginia Union.
That's old school.:rolleyes:

Wonderful1908 06-11-2007 11:11 PM
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

PVAMU

I try to give my SWAC schools love but this is disgusting!

DSTCHAOS 06-12-2007 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyoness (Post 1463494)
My mom sent me this. It's 2007 and don't forget to read the comment at the bottom. Same thing was going on at IU in 1999 when I almost went.

http://thepost.baker.ohiou.edu/artic...ews/20405.html
I hope these types of relatively rare events aren't why you really went to an HBCU. :rolleyes:

KAPital PHINUst 06-12-2007 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1465279)
I hope these types of relatively rare events aren't why you really went to an HBCU. :rolleyes:
Co-sign.

One of the few times I agree with Chaos' posts.

Eclipse 06-12-2007 09:32 AM
re: graduation rates of HBCUs vs PWIs...

I know one of the biggest problems at my alma mater when I was a student and now is the cost. Spelman has one of the largest (if not the largest, I can't rmember) endowments of HBCUs, but when you compare it to a school like Emory Univeristy which is in the same city, it is peanuts. As a result, Spelman can't compete with the Emorys and Smiths of the world when it comes to scholarship dollars for deserving students. Those students either beg, borrow and..well, not steal ;) to pay for their freshman year, but then don't have the funds to pay for sophomore year, so they 'drop out' and impact graduation rates. My friends that did not graduate from Spelman, for the most part, did not do so because of the lack of education or their inability to master the classes, but many of them did not because they simply could not afford it. Many went on to graduate from state schools in their homestate.

I hope everyone on this list that is proudly proclaiming their love for their alma mater (especially those that went to HBCUs) are giving something to the school so currents students won't have to say "I would love to go to/stay at Spelman/Howard/Clark/Hampton, etc, but I can't afford to, so I will go to XX School that will give me money. Even $5 means that the % of alumni giving is increased and many major foundations look at that to determine if they will give. For those of us who have fond or not so fond memories of countless hours of standing in lines at registration, give a bit more so the school can upgrade the computers. LOL

DSTCHAOS 06-12-2007 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst (Post 1465290)
One of the few times I agree with Chaos' posts.
Aren't I supposed to be on ignore or something?

KAPital PHINUst 06-12-2007 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1465308)
Aren't I supposed to be on ignore or something?
When you start acting like a Kazodian, you go on ignore. Otherwise, I read you posts like everyone else's.

DSTCHAOS 06-12-2007 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst (Post 1465420)
When you start acting like a Kazodian
Interesting, seeing as though I went back and forth with you long before I knew what a KAZO was. :rolleyes:

KAPital PHINUst 06-12-2007 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1465424)
Interesting, seeing as though I went back and forth with you long before I knew what a KAZO was. :rolleyes:
And have gotten a lot worse as a result of Kazo; evidently birds of a feather flock together (:rolleyes:).

Yes GC, she's crazy about me. There must be something about that Crimson and Cream love :D

(now back to our regularly scheduled thread).


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