And again, I say to you what I said to Rudey:
When has anyone on here said that we want politicians to address the "problems" being discussed in this thread? I don't expect politicians to take the crack pipe out of someones hand, make someone speak "proper" English or take better care of their children. What I do expect politicians to do is ensure that there is equal opportunity to education, housing, employment, etc... The only reason those tend to be "black problems" is because those basic rights are often not afforded to us. What other "black problems" does the black community ask politicians to address?

As far as Bill making his comments in front of a white audience, that's really not an issue for me. I guess I'm just wondering what the point is? To let us all know there is a bad element among us? Check... I think we all get that. So now what?

And I reiterate:
I just don't get how some of you on here sit around agreeing with the masses, posting slanted statistics, saying, "yeah, my race is in an awful state, isn't it?" Well, where does that place you? And better yet, what are YOU doing about it?

And I just don't understand how some of YOU sit around here disagreeing just to be disagreeing based on your emotions and not facts, are in denial about the urgency of the situation in the black community, and call anyone that addresses these issues head on without shielding the truth a sell out...uncle Tom or a more trendy phrase asking them "are they comfortable in their own skin" :rolleyes:

I'm not really taking sides, because you both have a point...but I think it is unfair how certain people can say certain things and get away with it...

Why is it that Oprah can have a show about black men living on the downlow and she is praised? Correct me if I'm wrong, her target audience is WHITE women in their 30's. Bill Cosby is both praised and criticized, but mostly praised. Buuuuut if any common black person shares their opinion about situations in the black community (that aren't positive) they are condemned. :confused:

This isn't my fight and I really am not concerned much between who your community sees as its leaders and how you want to help your community. Aside from saying that I will say that on here, and in my experience, I have experienced what I said about remarks about leaders. But whatever no skin off my back since I have my own community to take care of.

-Rudey

This never ceases to amaze me. Rudey, the only black leaders I'll ever need in my life are my dad and someday my husband.

Good for you. In my community we enjoy having leaders and are proud of our achievements outside of the family. Again, I don't live in your community or have personal attachments to it but it seems as if there is no community for you - just families.

-Rudey

Let's be clear here. We're talking about comments made my Bill Cosby. The comments he made were about the way our children speak, bad parenting skills, people stealing pound cake, expensive tennis shoes, etc... Are you trying to tell me that your interpretation of what most black Democrats want is someone to step in cure those types of ills? While I don't speak for all black people (contrary to popular belief), I think I can fairly say that that is ridiculous. Since you seem to be the expert on this, please outline for me what you believe these "black issues" are. Actually, that's okay, I just realized that I really don't even want to know, lol.
No, these issues aren't a secret at all and you and Bill can yell them from a mountaintop if you want. It just seems an ineffective method to me. DO something about it if you're so compelled to speak on it. Everything else is just rhetoric. We know there's a bad element. Now what?

Did you notice how I totally just skipped over that whole "white" spiel? I don't even know where that came from, lol.

So my argument has no merit just because you don't agree with it? Yeah, okay. How can you claim I'm in denial when I clearly posted that I'm aware of the many ills in the black community? I even listed some of them. Not only do I acknowledge them, but I make active efforts to alleviate them.
You like that, huh? You may as well make that your new siggy since it shows up in all your posts anyway, lol.

And for the third time I ask:
I just don't get how some of you on here sit around agreeing with the masses, posting slanted statistics, saying, "yeah, my race is in an awful state, isn't it?" Well, where does that place you? And better yet, what are YOU doing about it?

Anyway, this has been entertaining and all, but I have a life I need to go live.

i don't think one has to be a nationally known "leader" to be a "leader." you keep asking what she (and everyone else in your community) physically DOES to make things better. well, maybe right now they are doing something......by bringing up the issues, acting against the steretypes in their daily lives, and just being a living example. i don't think everyone needs to get a petition going or host a rally or be famous to be active in this fight.


but i'm just a lil white girl, what do i know?

If Lovespell and I agree on nothing else, I think we agree that the answers start at home. Therefore, if anybody needs to be doing the "leading", it should be our fathers and husbands (assuming they're leading down the right path). Clearly, living by example doens't do the trick, so I'm looking for alternatives.
You said it, not me. LOL.

Seriously, I'm done with this topic.

I guess I am a bit confused at to what you mean by "community" and us Black folks not having one???

I can leave my response short and to the point or I can give you a dissertation...

Let me put it to you like this... It is the old ideas of civil rights, which many key organizations are using to dismantle bigotry and racism. Those are the ones you see on TV...

The newer ideas may have RPG's attached to it with terrorist actions... But, those are a bit novel and can get one put into Guantanamo Bay...

Fortunately, a person of color who NEVER speaks out against improper imprisonment and injustice MIGHT not be harangued by those who officially represent the government. But is that any more of a democracy with the home of the free and the brave?

The fact is what does the US Constitution and Bill of Rights say??? How are the laws enacted and implemented??? Are there common ethical understandings rules and relationships that we follow??? I am not in this field, so I do not know. But the law has a way of affecting folks that were once disenfranchised, discriminately, regardless of education, rank and level of intelligence...

Just be falsely accused of anything... I have before... I would not wish that on anyone... And you do not talk your way out of Hell...

So, the "old fashioned" way of dealing with injustice was confrontational with marching onto Zion... A newer way is using violence... Yet a better way is to respond in Love... And you win hearts over, but you might lose your life for it...

I dunno what the answer is... But, I know that an injustice somewhere is an injustice everywhere if we say we stand for true democracy...

And President Bush was NOT democratically elected no matter how one slices the Wonder Bread...

Monet baby I meant that for me I can talk about the community as a whole and talk about leaders because that's my experience. I've also heard black folk talk about community and leaders. If someone on here sees this all as a just a bunch of families with fathers as the leaders, fine, but that's their experience.

As for Bush being elected Democratically, this thread isn't about that now is it? Regardless the system of checks and balances is quite a Democratic concept in our government - the oldest government in the world to my knowledge actually.

-Rudey

Just to let you know you've been chosen (out of a tight 2 way race) to be my fan club president ;) Congrats!!

A whole lot more than some of the other girls on here :D

I have nothing else to ad...other than "What she said!"

Why are people upset this wasn't posted in an NPHC forum? I thought some might enjoy it and I don't see this as an NPHC issue only. The only thing I can think of is that there would be more control over who sees it and what they can see.

-Rudey

i dont get it either. but methinks u're right.

Because, Sweetheart, nobody cares what they said about how bad it is for Black folks...

The question my soror is asking is why are you posting this topic in the News & Politics forum and hardly any of the NPHC organizational listings have any extensive discussion regarding what Obama and Cosby said???

Why are hardly any of the NPHC forums not discussing this topic, well, maybe we are sick and tired of hearing the negativity... Who wants to be told of poor outcomes and statistics all day... HAYLE, some of us work in highly charged environments and sometimes we want to let loose, have a beer and discuss deep topics as to which Kama Sutra position is the best... I dunno... DAYUM!!!

Some of us don't want to here what somebody who is not in our "realm" of reality start talking about "things" that only Black folks experience... And really, to put it bluntly, some of us just don't care... Especially on a Friday night... We might just want to "step in the name of love" or some chit like that... Who knows???

Either way, you can post what you want, where you want it and have those who are willing to discuss these items with you if they want...

The question still on some folks minds are, why do you care, anyway?

Do I care how blacks feel internally toward each other? No. I thought people might be interested in this article is all and might miss it. It wasn't on an NPHC forum. Why? Well regardless you didn't miss it just in case you wanted to read it. That's why I put the disclaimer up when I posted. Even if I had posted it in an NPHC forum, which one?? What about people who are interested in it and not in an NPHC?

-Rudey

The sad part is insinuations by a few people ruin this whole thread.

"I do not care about Those Folks" is short sighted and ignorant.

When did we all not care about each other?

I do not give a shit about race or relegion, just the person.

It seems that one person gets glee on pushing buttons with his/her comments .

Colony had 1 white, 1 Black and 1 Asian All Americans in my hearing committee to fight for their status! to keep the Colony Alive, I fought like Hell for them! This was what Greek Life is supposed to be all about! Intteraction of People Race and Relegion.

Is there some one who does not understand that?

Some people care about blacks when they tell them to go back to Africa.

-Rudey

I think the main problem lies in the fact that society at large is very calss and race oriented. It's the same reaosn we've been arguing over the best thing to do for "our people" for more than a hundred years. It's the same reason we have yet to come up with an answer.

Blacks have been expected to be one homogenous group that are like minded and share the same experiences and goals. That couldn't be further from the truth. I had to go through quite a few knocks to learn that, but I did. That's why discussions like this both bother the hell out of me and draw me in. There is no "black experience" other than the general results of being black in an upper class white society. (Anyone who disagrees that being black in America places you at a disadvantage is either a fool, a liar, or naive.) It took me a long time to realize there was nothing wrong with me if I happened to have more in common with the white person on my left than I did the black person on my right. I spent a long time not being "black enough" but during that time, I never heard of one white person not being "white enough" or an asian not being "asian enough." It wasn't until recently I while was going over a paper I had written for an African American history course that it really hit me: blacks are no more homogenous or unified than any other race, but we've spent a long time being told that we should be.

No one guilts an upperclass white for not uplifting lower class whites or from trying to seperate themselves form that negative aspect of the white community. If a black does the same thing, it's only helping keep us down. Choosing to associate outside of your assigned group is rarely loooked upon as badly by whites as it is by members of minority groups. Why? Because no one is telling them they're supposed to look out for each other.

Like I said earlier, more than a hundred years and the issues are almost still the same. Unfortunately the only way to really fix this problem would be to bring about a near impossible shift in attitudes and preceptions that affects every person in this country. The sooner people realize there is really nothing that holds anyone together other than artificial significance arbitrarily assigned to different genetic phenotypes, the sooner everyone can go about fixing their real problems.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion.........

You're right, then you, Shortfuse, should not post.

-Rudey

Sometimes I talk to myself too.

-Rudey

since irony is apparently lost on you, rudey actually made a pretty good point (at least as far as THIS PARTICULAR DISCUSSION HAS GONE) there - the candle was being burnt on both ends (by different people), which doesn't really fly in a true discussion.

Hey Rudey,

Honey, you can post whatever, whenever and whereever you want... All over the place... I really have yet to care about that isssue. Because, like you said, it is important to have some level of discussion of these topics, elsewhere... And maybe a few folks who are not Black, actually do care. :eek: :rolleyes:

I am still a little peeved about the "Back to Africa" comment though... ;)



But Tom,

Some folks, just don't care about people in general. Much less care about themselves... All one can say is oh well...




GRhinoUK,

Maybe in your world and reality, you may have never had to see the need for unification between Blacks. That is a current (I'd say in the last 25 years) development. However, during Segregation in the United States, Blacks at all levels (rich vs poor, educated vs uneducated, etc.) all lived side by side. Blacks in the United States had to live in their own communities, see their own doctors and eat in their own tables... They were never allowed to own property or do their own thing... The laws at the time dictated separate and equal conditions until the US Supreme Court dictated that it was unconstitutional in 1954...

That is what made it extremely important so that you can have more commonalities between folks of different ethnic groups... Because for SOME people, if they had it their way, you would not be using the internet today... You would not be able to say these items...




Lemme put it all to you like this: In the majority of the Black community in America, there is this "fear" of sanctioned covert government plots to utterly destroy the Black man--like the "Final Solution" was for Jews. I don't know what is fueling this fear or if it is real or not--'cuz for some people it is the PERCEPTION it--not the actual reality of it...

For Example: Why are there so many "myths" about HIV/AIDS in the Black community??? It was a covert plot by the government--yada, yada, yada... Either way, if Black folks are about 15% of the population in the US, then how come by sheer numbers, 10% are afflicted with HIV/AIDS--even with ALL the capabilities we have in the US--still there is a huge increase of new HIV/AIDS cases in the US Black Community???

That is what most avowed, practicing African American here on GC are talking about with those outside of the group and those African Americans that call us to task and question...





And Lemme say another thing to those Black folks that wonder why other Black folks don't like them... Personally, for me, I understand where you all are coming from... Been there, done that--I say. Because I am older, I have yet to care what other African Americans are saying about me. DAYUM, as my Grandmother said, "They talked about Jesus Christ, they sho are gonna talk about you..." Whether you are "comfortable in your skin that you are in" or not, it still hurts to be called a "sell out" to your face when you are probably being misunderstood for the most part...

But having been ostracized by my own while growing up, I have learned what makes us Black folks tick. It is a matter of watching the conversation and the level of what is coming out of their mouths for you to frame it to get them to where your thinking level is... But that takes several levels of skill and practice... I still have to work on it at my age...

But, why you all get so bashed for your statements in the fact that when you all say them, no matter how correct the statements actually are, you are still SEEN and PERCEIVED just as CRITICAL as those "demeaning" white folks or other races are to us, which make your "allegiances" be called into question... I.e., you are so quick to JUDGE us like Judge Judy when a negro says something, but NEVER when a white boy says something... There you go again, Uncle Thoming on us again--yada, yada, yada...

Nevertheless, the minute another Black persons says that to you, you all shutdown, become hurt and lash out defensively... But does that help your learning and proving your point?

One suggestion is, from my spiritual quest, is to respond in kindness... That is why Rudey doesn't piss me off for some of the things he says--like he can to so many others--'cuz I respond to him with humanity and kindness... The minute he slips up and says something in my opinion questionable--I ask what does he mean and usually, he clarifies it... That is why I respect him...

But, the flaming on here... Is it working? I dunno... Don't much care--especially when you have a mortgage to deal with... However, for kids, it is important... And when you've got young people, you really have to think about the broad implication of your statements... It is liken to not cursing in front of a two year old...

In case you were looking for some other black articles on AIDS:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/07/na.../07deaths.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/national/06aids.html

About the back to africa comment, I'm sure you know that I would never say that and I think it's shameful someone on here did so I left it in my signature with their name as a reminder.

Regarding my own personal image among NPHC members, well, I'll live but truthfully NPC, NIC, Latino, Latina, Chinese, Fukanese, whatever...everybody misinterprets my love on here.

-Rudey

Awwwwhhhh, Sweetheart... Don't hate the playa, hate the game... :rolleyes:

With Hollywood Shuffle interpretation: "But I luvvvedddeddd you... A hit may, ah two times..."

I will respond to this since it makes reference to a comment your Soror Bamboozled said to me. First I wish you could really feel me and understand me and believe me that it does not hurt me or bother me what she said (asking me was I comfortable in my own skin) or when Ladygreek asked me was my role model Clarence Thomas LOL! You can't hold the views I have and get offended easily. I don't look for acceptance from anyone, all I do is speak what I see to be the truth. I make reference to their comments because they are funny to me and because when people can't dispute what you are saying factually, they resort to personal attacks. The fact that people are all over GC PMing other folks, quoting my signature in various threads, and making snide comments about me lets me know that 1. what I say gets them to think outside the box and 2. The fan club was a necessity ;)

Anytime you espouse views against the norm, you are going to get attacked. Anytime you mention that you love Jesus Christ and evoke him into discussions, you immediately come under a microscope and folks judge you as if they are sitting in the throne room...but hey...its all part of it. The foolishness folks post on here about me rolls right off my back..and I'm laughing as its rolling off.

My post is off topic, but I responded because although you say you have a mortgage to deal with and you don't really care..your post did seemed well reasoned and thought out...

**BACK TO THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD**:p

Personally, I think Rudey posted this topic to get a handle on what is being observed by an "outsider" looking in and wondering why he is observing such behavior...

Aside from that, Sistahgirl, are you sure you are not really affected? Because this is not the first time or topic you have posted your issues about how other Black folks have treated you by what they said to did to you... And you are not the only one who feels this way....

And I think what Rudey is noticing, as well as many others who are critically astute is the on-going diatribes by other avowed and certifiable African Americans here on GC laying down un-researched ideas without factual basis and arguing without logically coming to a conclusion... While, ironically, most African Americans argue with cyclical reasoning skills rather than linear ones--but that is another issue and not the topic of this forum...

What some folks have issue with you and many others that are poppin' up into GC is that you are "airing Black folks dirty laundry" to put it bluntly. And you have most of the non Black folks agreeing with your observations. And one thing that Black folks do not like is being told they are wrong by the "man"--or whatever...

Now, you can feel like it is rolling off your back and that is the defensive mechanism you have chosen, but it is obvious that it really has not. Otherwise, you would not respond to snide or silly comments made by any of my sorors, your sorors or any of the D9 organizations...

Yes, it atrocious that some Black folks resort to personal attacks and cast aspersions on your character. You responding back to them to stupefy them, it is working? Does it help get your point across?

Blessed are the peacemakers... Or even, you catch more flies with honey than you do with salt...

All I am saying is, you do not have to put down somebody because they put you down to win your argument. Sometimes folks have to agree to disagree. Other times, if you know you are correct and the person is blatantly wrong, you have to teach them rather than embarassment. Or, if you do not really care and could care less, then hey, give up a mofo and GTFO on out...

Either way, you got to pick your own battles... It's the American Way!!!

Rudey isn't black so Rudey will never know. Rudey thought you might not see this article otherwise and just posted it for you.

-Rudey
--Rudey is sweet like sugar and if it rains tonight, will melt away.

I ceremoniously bequeath unto you The Race Card, with all rights, privileges and services to promote unity and friendship amongst the disengaged:

http://www.pete-online.us/Images/RaceCardSharpJack.jpg

Never leave home without it... And watch for identity thievery too... ;)

Please post that point, since you felt the urge to post.

Thanks for following my posts so closely to see what i say and when i say it...but to everything else you posted..i am really not interested in proving or convincing you or anyone for that matter that this "stuff" doesn't affect me....so you post what your views..and i'll do the same ;) The Love_Spell_6 will keep doing what she does...and my fans will continue to follow me from post to post :p

Have you figured out yet that the only persons that can criticize the black community (without backlash) are black democrats?..or those that think "the man" and evil Republicans are the cause or source for all the problems??

That if anything should be evident even in this thread. Lord help you if white folks agree with you! Now your viewpoint is somehow flawed. :o

You haven't contributed anything to this thread other than incomplete sentences that had nothing to do with the topic. Are you even black? Get the hell out of here white boy!

-Rudey

That was actually funny :rolleyes:

Well that sheriff that pull me over a few years ago doesn't agree with your accusation of me being white.


But back to Barak,

The 50 percent dropout rate is BOGUS. It paints a negative picture of Black America that just isnt' true. More negative crap is on the news about us everyday and Mr. Cosby(and any college educated person) should've known better before spitting that out.

To be honest, I'm not in the buisness of saying that blacks are evil which is exactly what people who believe that nonsense are doing. What's even funnier it's educated blacks who don't live around these areas making these WILD ACCUSATIONS. Alot of them marched and struggled in the 60s and 70s, got paid and rolled out. Getting a nice home is something I don't knock a person for. But it's sicken to hear these same people not giving a break to others who are going through what they went through not to long ago.

Are you saying that blacks in the 60's and 70's had an easier time making it, getting their educations and becoming wealthy? What do they owe today's generation of blacks?

No I didn't say that at all. But when those people had support groups coming up. I'm talking about older people in their neighborhoods who made sure they were going int he right direction and was getting that education. These people gave them contacts/money/support that they needed to survive. Kids today are thrown out to the wolves. Just right here in DC where the head of the household could be a 10 year old boy hustling to feed his baby brother/sister or both. The blacks of the 60s and 70s didn't have it easier but there were people their to teach them how to grow up to be men and women. People sacrifice time and money to make sure that they didn't have to face what they faced in the 30s,40s, and 50s.

Now to answer your second question, they owe the people who helped them along the way to turn around and help today's generation to make sure they're not lost, just like their elders made sure that they wouldn't be lost. The struggle doesn't stop just because somebody makes a speech and a few laws are passed. IT ends when we finally are able to do what Bro. King said in his speech.

I got one thing to say to Barak:




http://www.rundevilrun.com/postcards/fag.jpg