I'll keep my carbs. All I really eat are pasta, fruits, veggies, fish and chicken. My body can't handle a lot of red meat so if I cut out my carbs there wouldn't be much for me to eat.

What's been "Replaced"? It's all still there. The only thing I know that some places are replacing is certain fats.

-Rudey

I do low carb and lost 20 lbs on it last year. My whole family does atkins "lifestyle" which makes it hard not to at my house. The problem is you can't go off of it...it's a LIFESTYLE (as I learned the hard way in my first year of college).
As to which diet is better (low cal vs low carb) I think it all depends on what works for you and what you can live with without driving yourself crazy. I did read somewhere though, that people doing low carb are actually losing weight because they are eating more protein, so they are fuller after meals and dont snack and therefore eating less calories than they usually would...dunno if thats true tho?
Russel Strover makes good low carb chocolate candies and I just tried the Hershey's "1 carb" choc. bars and thought they tasted fine (keep in mind I haven't eaten reg. chocolate in a long long time) As for other food that are being marketed as "low carb" such as chips, chocolate, ice cream, etc...the whole point of a diet is to get away from this junk food anyways? I guess thought if you need the occasional "fall of the wagon"...these would be better than eating the real chips/choc/ice cream...:D

Why do you care???

If someone wants to go on a mud booger diet, because they feel like that's going to help them loose weight... Then let them!

I don't understand why everyone feels like it's their business to impose their views of how to loose weight to someone who is overweight... Can someone explain that to me???

Would you tell someone who can't walk how to walk???

Or tell a man that's bald how to grow his hair back???

Honestly though!

I'm on Atkins because I feel it's right for me. And so far, it's worked really well!

I had two options, loose the weight and chance something bad will happen to my health... Or stay overweight and know something bad will happen.

Uh, I choose to stay on Atkins.

If you don't like it, don't do it! Simple as that. Go on that mud booger diet, I won't mind!

I don't care what kind of diet someone chooses to follow. The thing that bothers me, though, is when I go to restaurants that keep expanding their menus to include all kinds of food for people on Atkins, but they never, ever come up with new vegetarian options. It gets old after a while seeing all the mud booger crap when I'd just like some nice grilled tofu or something.

Perhaps if you could convince more people to become vegetarians, then more restaurants would cater towards them?

-Rudey

I totally second that!!

Also....

Don't knock it until you try it! And if you never try it and never plan on it--then you cannot judge anything! Do not tell us how to live!

I am healthier now than ever and guess what--I still eat junk and maintain my weight--I just do not eat as much junk as I used too!

THANK YOU.

My mom makes fun of me for doing that, but 1)I'm saving about 300 calories by drinking a large Diet Coke instead of a regular, and 2)once you're used to diet sodas, the regular ones just taste gross!

Well, it matters what the public thinks is an acceptable diet becuase obesity is the largest public health problem in our country today. It costs our health care sysem millions, and costs us precious years of our lives.

There isn't a lot known about the "ideal" way to eat. What most nutritionists, and doctors agree on is vegetables, fiber, water, and not over eating (or, conversly, slightly under-eating).

1)Actually I realized this from an article that was recently on Yahoo news, which I will post right after I post this. The guy has a GREAT point.

2)I *personally* believe the healthiest, safest, and best way to keep weight off in the long run, is the traditional way: cut back on refined carbs, eat more whole grain bread, etc, follow a low-fat, low-cholestoral, low-sugar diet, and excersize regularly. This way, you are not eliminating anything important from your diet, you are learning to make good food choices and proper portion sizes, and making exercise an important part of your life. All three doctors I asked said Atkins is VERY unhealthy and just reinforces people to make bad food choices.

I know many people who have done Atkins and most of them have told me it made them feel like crap and they gained the weight back.

I just wish the South Beach Diet could become bigger than Atkins, because it teaches good eating habits and about good carbs vs bad carbs.

Found at: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in623260.shtml

'Da Vinci Diet' Digs Carbs

PORTLAND, Maine, June 15, 2004

(AP) A baker who lost nearly half his customers to the low-carb craze has tapped Dan Brown's best-selling novel for an Atkins alternative called the "Da Vinci Diet" that he hopes will bring people back to bread.

A little math theory kneaded with biblical lore from "The Da Vinci Code" has transformed Stephen Lanzalotta into a dietary sage, answering the "carbohydrate question" with a series of lectures promoting a diet he has followed for decades to maintain a muscular 160 pounds into middle age.

Admittedly, he is neither a nutritionist nor a scholar - his background is in biology and biochemistry. But Lanzalotta argues that people have been eating bread for too long for it suddenly to be the reason everyone is fat.

"Human civilization and grain have ties that go way back. No municipal society evolved without grain, no matter what it was," said Lanzalotta, who kneads his dough by hand like ancient breadmakers. "Not that I believe bread is one of the most sacred foods, but it is one of the most important things we can eat."

Lanzalotta argues that bread forms the building blocks of the body and, in moderation, can lead to more stable moods, clearer thought and a rock-hard body, right down to the washboard stomach of a Renaissance statue.

The Da Vinci Diet is not published and is revealed primarily through the baker's lectures. It consists mostly of Mediterranean foods - the foods ancient thinkers and artists ate. Fish, cheese, vegetables, meat, nuts and wine, in addition to bread - none are taboo at Da Vinci's table.

In his diet, Lanzalotta uses a complicated formula he created that relies on the value of phi, a number discovered by ancient mathematics, used to build the pyramids, and featured prominently in Brown's book.

The value, 1.618, is known as the "golden ratio." It has long fascinated artists, philosophers and mathematicians.

Taking into account factors including body type, the diet typically breaks down to 52 percent carbohydrates, 20 percent protein and 28 percent fat. That's fewer carbohydrates and more protein than current federal guidelines.

The formula also can help people choose the right foods without turning a finicky eye toward the bread humans have consumed for the ages, Lanzalotta said.

A little suspect? Maybe.

In his book "The Golden Ratio," Mario Livio, an astrophysicist and senior scientist on the Hubble Telescope, discusses the history of the number. But Livio questions whether a diet based on it is better for the body.

"I'm not surprised in the sense that the golden ratio has been incorporated into many things," Livio said. "But to claim that we are tuned precisely to the number, I don't think there is particularly strong evidence."

Lanzalotta is not alone in looking for a carbohydrate-considerate way to eat, said Dave Grotto, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association.

Grotto agrees with Lanzalotta's claim that most new "Atkins friendly" processed snacks on grocery shelves are mostly nonnutritive filler - low-carbohydrate cookies and treats that critics describe as tasting like cardboard.

"The bakery industry has been in essence turned on its head," Grotto said. "But the truth of the matter, we eat because we enjoy the taste of food. And some of that gets lost in translation in low-carb foods. Some of it is God-awful."

When low-carbohydrate diets took off amid an ever-fatter population, Lanzalotta was spending hours researching food, exploring radical dietary regimens, and finding ways to incorporate bread to make it healthy.

He actually understands why low-carb diets work and appreciates the discipline involved. The diet has its strong points, he said.

"I'm not suggesting that we eat more bread," Lanzalotta said. "I'm just trying to look at the problems with eating only meat."



By Ryan Lenz
©MMIV, The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

AMEN!!!
It's not like there's a small number of vegetarians out there anymore, and it's certainly not something new...

I haven't been able to comfortably eat foods high in protein and/or fat since I had my gallbladder removed. But in response to the original comment, there's a reason we crave carbs. It's because we need them so much! However, I've come to the conclusion, after much research (mind you, this is my personal opinion!) that grains are not as vital a source of carbs as fruits. In centuries past, grains were a relatively quick and easy source of calories in a world where starvation abounded.

These days, most of the nutrients and fiber found in whole grains can be found also in vegetables. And the carbs found in fruits is much easier for your body to digest than the carbs in any kind of processed foods (I'm talking sucrose and other loveliness like that).

So, I've found that the California Food Pyramid works best for me and my circumstances. Fruits and Vegetables at the base, High Fiber Cereals and Grains as well as Starchy Vegetables next, then Protein from Plant and Animal Sources and finally Taste Enhancers (Rather than Fats, Sweets and Oils).

This Pyramid reflects the way our bodies were designed to work! The USDA Food Pyramid is terribly unhealthy!!! Consider that it was created by THE GOVERNMENT, obviously putting emphasis on those agricultural areas in which the U.S. is most heavily involved.

I would stake my life on the fact that following the CFP will result in the slow and steady weight loss deemed healthy by doctors and nutritionists (I mean for healthy people!!).

For real!! My personal trainer tried to tell me that eating more protein would make me lose weight. No, he didn't say eat fewer carbs - he said carbs give me energy to work out! :rolleyes: People are out of control!!

With regular activity, a woman's body should receive no more than 6 ounces of protein per day. With increased physical activity, the number goes up - but so does the carb count. I completely understand why low carb/high protein diets make you lose weight and are VERY successful in this venture. However, don't kid yourself into believing that the calories somehow change and the protein can possibly have fewer calories per gram than the carbs! :p

actually protein does have fewer calories per gram than carbohydrates....(basic biology/thermochemistry) b/c of the natural fibers/indigestable material.
ratio is 4:9

I apologize for being nitpicky but I think its fat that has 9 calories per gram, while carbohydrates and protein each have 4 calories per gram.

One thing no one has mentioned in this discussion yet is that among other health risks, high protein diets put a LOT of stress on your kidneys - something that is produced when your body breaks down protein is processed/detoxified by your kidneys, so more of this substance = more stress on your kidneys.

I'm convinced that in terms of overall health and weightloss, its best to eat loads of fresh fruits and vegetables, lean protein (grilled skinless chicken, seafood, tofu, etc), wholegrains, and low-fat dairy. (My mother's best friend is a nutritionist and she backs me up on this one). I agreed with whoever said that many obese people say they have tried tons of diets and they are still fat, but in reality they haven't learned about exercise or portion sizes or whatever. I'm not saying all obese people are like that, but certainly a significant portion of them!

So I guess I like my carbs - provided they come from fruit, dairy, wholegrains, or chocolate (my major source of refined sugar... but its SO GOOD).

I went to a nutrionist a couple summers ago as Atkins was beginning to move into the spotlight. She is nationally recognized as one of the leading experts in her field. She told me the problem with Carbs is not they in themselves a problem, but like everything, we eat three to five times daily the amount we need and THAT (the extra) becomes fat. Carbs do not just turn into fat if they are being used!!!!!
One of the biggest problems with this was the low-fat food craze. The manufacturers replaced fat with carbs. So you thought your fat-free cream cheese, mayo, salad dressings were all making you skinny. No they were increasing your daily carb intakes to way too high levels and turning into fat. She told me that I need to introduce MORE fat into my diet because I wasn't eating enough, and I was eating entirely TOO many Carbs.
The Moral of the Story: CARBS are not the Enemy. Too Much of anything is not a good thing. (Sorry Alan Jackson) We as a country need to stop over eating and failing to indulge in some self-control.

There is only one correct, long term proven way to lose weight.
Burn more calories then you consume.

The thing I missed the most while being on Atkins was fruit and being able to eat all the salad I wanted. I could have eaten all the turkey I wanted on it but I'm one of those people who needs her salad every once in a while! I love those big salads at the fast food places now, and I couldn't imagine that being all of my carbs for the day!

Anymore I have reduced my carbs, but at the same time I'm not doing Atkins. I'm trying to reduce my overall food intake which seems to work out better than if I was cutting carbs. It's slower but it will probably last longer! :)

Carbohydrate: 4 cal/g
Protein: 4 cal/g
Alcohol: 7 cal/g
Fat: 9 cal/g

Though, with the push toward low carb/high protein many food companies are trying to make that Carb: 9 cal/g more believable!!

Absolutely, but one thing that low carb diets save you from is table sugar. That is one of the most poisonous things we ingest on a regular basis!! It wouldn't be so bad to have a little at a time, but, USFSDTAlum, you're absolutely right about the low-fat craze introducing WAY too much sucrose into the population. That destroyed the delicate balance of insulin in everyone who participated which, I'm sure, didn't help with weight loss! So, high protein hurts your kidneys (and raises your blood pressure, cholesterol and sodium intake) and low-fat/high sugar damages your blood in other ways. Both toxify the blood and can destroy organs over time. And that really is over time unless you're already unhealthy.

Re: I Like My Carbs
 

Once a couple of summer's back when I was really getting loopy about weight loss I tried the low carb/no carb deal............became very tired and irritable and was hungry all the time.

I enjoy my carbs and eating whatever in hell I want to when I go out and eat (thus part of the fun of going out to eat). Further more, one needs a certain amount of carbs in their diet for energy (otherwise your body begins to break down things it shouldnt and thus causes ketoacidosis which is very bad). One should hear what my Nutrition and Physiology intructors say about these diets.

The number of vegetarians is small, otherwise the marketplace would offer more vegetarian options.

That's true. The percentage of true vegetarians is something like 3% of the population. However there is a growing market for "flexitarians" or people who eat meat only once or twice per week and welcome good vegetarian meals into their diet plan.

I read an article on comcast.net (It's not there anymore) about vegetarians being able to do the South Beach Diet. They said they just skipped the intake phase. It seems like all that would entail is eliminating empty and simple carbohydrates and making sure you get lots of non animal protein. I'm pretty sure that's how a vegetarian should eat anyway.

Re: Re: I Like My Carbs
 

I am not disagreeing with you on this one....but on South Beach this only happens at the beginning of Phase 1. I was tired, grumpy, and verrrrry sluggish...but after 3 days I had my energy back! I was just detoxifying my body from the bad carb addiction! I am back on Phase 1 until I go on vacation in a week--boy oh boy I hate the tired-grumpy feeling....but I have already dropped another 2lbs!!!!!

ETA: And for those of you who think it is bad--I do not see a problem with my dinner tonight being a steak and kidney bean salad! mmmm mmmm mmmm Plus I can eat as much of that as I want for dinner tonight!!!

Re: Re: Re: I Like My Carbs
 

With all due respect, that's one of the scariest things about some diets. You should NEVER be told that you can eat as much as you want of anything!!! Everything you ingest must be done in moderation. That's the only healthy way to eat.

It is ok though for me! Because thanks to the diet I am a very little person now and eating as much as I want is not very much! Also, remember your body does not recognize the amount of food you eat until 20 min after you start eating....so if you eat slow and in small portions...you will not get as full or overeat!

People who go on diets like the ones already mentioned seem to have problems w/ moderation. They either go all out or get on some crazy self-deprivation kick and neither one can be sustained healthily for any amount of time. Table sugar is bad, but one spoon of sugar in your coffee once a day isn't going to make you gain 50 lbs. Nor is sucrose/sorbitol/saccharin/Splenda very good for you either. When in doubt, just go w/ limited amounts of the real deal rather than all this Olestra and Nutrasweet crap. Anything that causes "anal leakage" isn't going in MY mouth.

This is why I eat butter, and stay away from margarine. I go through about a stick a month, so I'm pretty moderate. :)

A Scary Thought
 

...The Bottom Line
Although short-range studies have found that low-carbohydrate diets can produce weight loss, no study has demonstrated that such diets are safe or effective for long-term use [11-14,16-17]. Atkins advocated his diet for more than 30 years and stated that more than 60,000 patients treated at his center had used his diet as their primary protocol. However, he never published any study in which people who used his program were monitored over a period of several years. Scorekeeping can be done simply and inexpensively by mailing an annual questionnaire and tabulating the results. Why do you suppose he never did this?...

Full Story

And a breakdown

One more thing that irked me...Atkins said that people who have had their gallbladders removed due to gallbladder disease (which just means gallstones) would just need to restrict the amount of protein/fat they eat at one sitting. Ummm...basically, I'd be starving myself unless I ate dozens of times a day - and starvation would just increase my ketosis!!!! AAAAAA!

I totally agree swissmiss! Anything natural (in moderation) is bound to be healthier than something swimming in hormones and chemicals and pesticides and Lord knows what else. Of course I eat mostly organic - some things (such as chocolate, and alcohol) I make exceptions for. But its all free-range organic chicken, nothing with pesticides or hormones or antibiotics. I can taste the difference between organic and conventional, although unfortunately its really only possible to eat organic in the house - restaurants don't really cater.

Re: A Scary Thought
 

The problem with studies is that you can often find studies for everything like how reading makes you want to buy a cat. Unless it's from a reputable source it's nothing. And places like the AMA and very reputable medical journals like JAMA have put it out there that they are good diets that should be considered. So it really doesn't matter what irks you or what research you pull up from "quackwatch.org".

-Rudey

Re: Re: A Scary Thought
 

Very well. Here's what the AMA said in a report from Fox News:

...the American Medical Association dismissed Atkins' diet as nutritional folly and Congress summoned him to Capitol Hill to defend the plan.

Labeling it "potentially dangerous," the AMA said the diet's scientific underpinning was "naive" and "biochemically incorrect." It scolded the book's publishers for promoting "bizarre concepts of nutrition and dieting."

Full Report

Re: Re: Re: A Scary Thought
 

That was in 1973. Good job. Keep trying. Next time actually read what you write. And since you like supporting my point (from the same article):

"This year, his approach was vindicated in part by the very medical community that scorned him. In February, some half-dozen studies showed that people on the Atkins diet lost weight without compromising their health. The studies showed that Atkins dieters' cardiovascular risk factors and overall cholesterol profiles changed for the better."

-Rudey
--Those internet searches work so well for people with reading difficulties.

Atkins worked for me and for many people I know. We didn't eat a dozen eggs, a pound of butter, or pounds of fatty beef daily.

Re: Re: Re: Re: A Scary Thought
 

Now read it.

Anyway, it doesn't say that the AMA, specifically, accepted the diet.

Besides, why do you feel the need to reply to my posts and not the other posts about the dangers of high protein diets?

By the way, the AMA does not recommend any high protein diet and, as for JAMA, the articles are by medical professionals but are not in any way endorsed by the AMA.

I have absolutely no doubt that it contributes to weight loss!! I also lost weight with the Atkins plan. But I have major concerns about the effects of weight loss on this plan.

ETA: In support of what you said and contrary to popular belief, you CAN eat PLANT protein on Atkins! You don't ever have to eat red meat if you don't want to.

My mother's friend started Atkins in the early 1970s due to a family history of heart disease. No one in his family lived to the age of fifty. He is now nearly eighty and suffering from the heart disease that ended the lives of his siblings when they were in their forties. Fortunately, he can now benefit from medical advances that weren't around when his siblings had the same heart problems. Some people might use his condition as evidence that Atkins causes heart disease. He thinks that Atkins helped him to delay the inevitable and extend his life by over 30 years so far.

I agree that moderation is key with any diet. The problem is that people don't realize that there is more than just one phase in Atkins. In phase two you slowly increase carbs intake by 5 grams per week. After two weeks of phase one, you can bet I was dying for some fruit so I ate the sweetest strawberries ever grown. I slowly incorporated brown rice and whole wheat bread. Now that I am the weight that I want to be, I eat almost whatever I want in moderation.

I'm not advocating low carb diets for anyone. Just sharing. :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Scary Thought
 

You italicized "in part" - "vindicated in part". It wasn't "barely vindicated", it was "vindicated in part"; you can make that "vindicated by 1 part this and 2 parts that".

I have replied to other posts and not just yours. Get over yourself. If you want to make this an issue about you go for it.

The AMA doesn't recommend any diet that I know of. And I didn't say the AMA endorses JAMA articles. You don't even know what the AMA is and its function do you? By the way JAMA is the Journal of the American Medical Association and AMA is the American Medical Association.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Scary Thought
 

Where was there any suggestion that I didn't know the difference between the AMA and JAMA. Of course, I know what they are.

So, where is it that I "always refer to" my brain damage? And, it has been horribly insensitive of you to continually use my ABI to attempt to discredit what I say. The fact is I have a degree and I'm going on to a graduate program so, while it has been a tremendous struggle, I have learned to live with ABI.

It might be of benefit to you to learn a little about ABI/TBI or hear from others who have suffered brain damage and have lived to tell about it. Brain damage does not equal stupid, rather it means that certain functions of the damaged brain aren't as efficient as a healthy brain. And, in many cases, the people who have worked hard at learning different ways to deal with their ABI will not appear to have any problems on the outside. But, that doesn't mean that their damage is still not a daily part of life.