I understand that concept and do not argue that, however, unless something was scheduled on the fraternity calendar, or was a topic of discussion as an organized function recorded in the minutes, or organized as a fraternity event by the President or other Exec. Board members, a case like that would not hold up in court.

Yeah, all the fraternities that have been sued because a member drank himself to death after a birthday party or some other unofficial function had to be on their master calendar as well, right? It doesn't have to be a part of official business to be an event. It just has to have the presence of a few of the members (not even really that) and the influence of the organization.

Can someone please explain to me what "intake" is?

A couple of you keep talking about it and I've never heard of that term..

Thanks.

Membership Intake Program = New Member Education or Pledging

Unfortuantely, I must agree. Legal decisions can be bizarre these days. And this branding involves letters! Why not take a shot at the chapter or national organization?

Right or wrong?

I asked a good friend of mine who is a Kappa if he had ever been Branded and what he thought of it!

He emphatically stated "It is the dumbest damn thing that I could think of".

An Omega friend I asked He showed me his.

Of legal age or not, it is the impropriority of having a Greek Letters attached is the problem in todays P C Society.

It still leads to possible law suits that could bankrupt an Orgaization.

Risk Management is a serious thing.

An "Adult" (18) can say, I did it of my own free will, well, the School and The National may look at it differently. These YOUNG ADULTS are members of both the School and The Greek Organization.
The whole idea is if the school or the Greek Organization looks down on this, they will be GONE!

Law suits make all involved very nervous!

Some really do not give to good advice or thinking on this.

It's a shame...the Kappa brand is so sexy!

I'd rather my son got a small brand, than a tattoo.
 

I'd rather my son got a small brand, than a tattoo.

He has a right to choose, and he has the right to annoy his father.

Re: I'd rather my son got a small brand, than a tattoo.
 

And,when in the mood, he will find every possible opportunity to do just that.

Re "The Duck Rule"
 

There is an easy way to beat the argument that an event wasn't an official event because it wasn't on the calendar or in the minutes:

"Mr. President, if you had an activity that you thought that the general fraternity would not approve of, would you still put it on the calendar/"

"No sir"

"The branding wasn't on the calendar, was it?"

"No sir"

"So you deny that you were trying to hide it from your national fraternity?"

It's an argumentative question, and the Judge would throw it out, but itis the asking of the question that the jury often hears, and not the answer.

Re: Re: I'd rather my son got a small brand, than a tattoo.
 

:D .....that's what makes this a great country.....LOL

Re: Re "The Duck Rule"
 

he shouldn't answer the first question to begin with. It's self-incrimination (against the 5th Amendment).

You cannot compare this event with branding. Jamaica and raves have nothing to do with Beta. Someone getting a brand with Beta Theta Pi obviously involves Beta. Particularly because I would imagine, in most cases, it's difficult to brand yourself. And somehow I doubt that the majority of brands are done by legit tattoo/body modification parlors. If a brother is branding a brother or pledge, or a pledge is branding a pledge, how can Beta not be somewhat implicated?

ktsnake, I agree with you. Really, really good risk management means not only making sure you're not breaking the law, but not doing anything that would make anyone THINK you're breaking the law. I wouldn't want to call my national office and tell them that we were branding each other, either. Not because of hazing laws, but because I actually care about the reputation of my chapter.

Everyone who has said they'd been too concerned to tell their Headquarters, are you forgetting that you are partial owners to the INCORPORATED organizations? There should never be too much concerned that you couldn't call your Headquarters to simply ask if there are any national rules against you getting your own brand. Even your president doesn't "own" your organization any more than you do.

FYI: Branding is not now, nor ever was, a Sigma Chi Fraternity program.

okay i personally see nothing wrong with branding. its not much different than a tattoo and i think its better than a tattoo in that it has more meaning. even though the skulls made it look REALLY painful. you brand your body when you get a tattoo. you face nearly the same fears with tattooing than you would with branding. they are both painful and can both get infected.

Local chapters vary greatly (with my organization at least) and I have no reason to believe that Sigma Chi would be much different.

Here is where you use common sense.

Yes you have every right to do it.

Yes you can do it on your own and not as part of a program and not haze.

But should you do it?

I would say no.

The world is unfair. Sometimes you make sacrifices.

Why not encourage people to do what they want over summer break or back at home...wherever just to move that perception away.

It's not always about what is right or wrong but the perception.

-Rudey

Since when did it become against the law to be branded? Just because a Beta brands a "B" on his shoulder, doesn't mean its a Beta event and Beta (HQ) can be held responsible for any infection/loss that may be a result of the brand. Unless something was forced upon them or they were made to do it or it was a requirement for entrance into the org....etc., the org. cannot be held accountable. If someone chose to do this on their own, they're the only ones who can be held accountable.

But, if what you are saying is "If you affiliate with a GLO, and something randomly happens where someone else is injured, that person can sue that GLO because you are a member of it", then I guess your thoughts are correct.

But, I don't believe that.

ETA: I know a kid, who branded an 'Omega' on his shoulder when he was a freshman in college. He then proceeded to initiate into Phi Delta Theta. Then, he found out that the 'Omega' stood for Omega Psi Phi, and not 'something cool that his football and basketball playing idols' did.

Can Omega Psi Phi be sued for this kid being a dumbass? Absolutely not.

zz,

There is some very good advice above. Sometimes you just have to understand how things can happen, how life (and law) is sometimes unfair, and go with it.

If you want to take a chance, just be ready to accept the consequences. Heck, chapters do that every day. That's why we have a Risk Management forum.

And that's why we lose a lot of chapters.

Delt,

I am an alumni, and give all the encouragement in the world to my undergraduate brothers, that if they want to brand their letters into their skin, fuck-in eh, go for it.

When it becomes part of the pledge process, then we'll talk.
When it becomes part of initiation, then we'll talk.
When pledges are forced to do it to prove themselves, then we'll talk.
When pledges or brothers are pressured into it, then we'll talk.

Otherwise, as a grown adult if they choose to do it on their own, go nutz.

I wholeheartedly agree that chapters vary. For example, what Chapter A does before or after meetings may be different than Chapter B's. Yet ritual, new member education, pledging, initiation et al. are generic to that fraternity and it's chapters.

As such, what individual members of a chapter may do - either together or separately - would not be part of that chapter's programs. It might be part (peer pressure perhaps) of that chapter's or even the campus experience - Greek or otherwise - but not a program.

For example, getting good grades and building bonds with your brothers are part of the whole fraternity experience. Yet neither "Hey, after the chapter meeting we are all going to the library to study. Want to come?" or "The legal aged members are going to the popular college bar for responsible drinking, please join us if you like." would be considered part of a chapter's program.

When it goes to court -- then they'll talk.

I don't care if they want to get branded. I, and others above, simply are pointing out the potential for serious misunderstanding and repercusions.

In both of your two examples, nothing bad happened. There's a saying in the legal field: "We'll throw mud and see where it sticks". Often, in these types of cases, it goes back to the organization. If your chapter is having a get-together (not a party on the calendar) at someone's house and a member or even a non-member ends up getting drunk, walking outside and being run over by a car, you (as in your organization) can be sued -- this has actually happened and the chapter was held liable). If they end up getting beat up by NON-MEMBERS they can be sued.

If a few of your pledges decide to do a "power hour" (consume a quantity of beer every minute for an hour) and one of them dies of alcohol poisoning.. guess what? In all likelihood, your organization will be sued and lose some money.

Just as if a chapter has a culture where a lot of members get brands. If one of those brands became infected and a limb were lost, guess who the lawyers are going after? Most likely, it'll be the organization with millions of dollars in assets and a fat insurance policy.

As DA said, we're not talking about what is right or wrong. We're talking about what good risk management is.

Yes, if a person decides to do this on their own free will, say over the Summer (which is what I would encourage if this was something that happened in my organization) -- and do it ALONE, fine. If 2 or more brothers go and have it done -- and especially if a majority of members in your chapter have had this done, I'd say that it's not a huge leap to implicate the organization.

Basically, I think the saying is" If The Shit Hits The Fan", it is going to stick on any Brother/Sister of a particular Organization.:(

Do I agree with what happened to the KS at two schools, PKA, LXA at others No I do not.

But, this Just points out what the true situation really is.

Alfred U. NY, a Local did something that got ALL Greek Organizations taken of Campus.

Did that Help, Hell No!:confused:

They are still gone, that is it period, GONE!

maybe i'm just really not 'in the know', but where on earth do you get these done?

Like... how would a chapter have access to, say a Sigma Chi crest branding iron?! or the letters or whatever.

Since it seems like other fraternities have done this, where do they get them? Is it something that was custom-made and just kept in the chapter storage room? or can you go to a tattoo-parlor-type place and have that done?

:confused:

To be clear, I was addressing the comment that the branding appeared to be part of the chapter's programs. I may have missed it, but nowhere did I read that it was part of the chapter's program.

Moving forward and with respect to risk management, I do agree with the "throw mud at it" analogy. (Something I've heard before as well.) And frankly, the reason I used the two examples I did was that these two events could also be considered hazing and or risk management issues. Think forced study hours and forced (power hour) drinking. Yet if done voluntarily and responsibly, then there isn't an issue.

At this time we don't know enough about the situation to really make a judgment call regarding hazing or risk management. But from what the original post said, and from Internet research, it seems like so far the only issue is with a pissed off farther.

Which may be bad enough for the son.

Coathangers on the stove, baby.

I think you're talking about Micro-Management and calling it good risk management.

I understand how this works and the points your making, afterall, we all know Kevin Bacon, through someone who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone.

But, EX cannot be held liable, for example, if this kid was hanging out by his pool one day, tossed the coat hangar on his grill, and branded himself, just because he is a EX member.

They might if this was a group norm and he was doing this in order to conform.

ahhhh... I was thinking like cattle branding .. a'la "The Skulls" (movie)

still coat hangers on the stove.. ouch.

Ah, we could go all day about this.

PS, I beat a suit alleged against my chapter by the police/IFC/University, because I, the chapter president, personally held a party at my home (not the Beta house), and there were Betas there. Some catty sorority girls were also there, which turned into a Panhell. issue due to recuritment...parties...beer...rushees...blah blah blah. It was tried as a 'Beta Event', and they had their asses handed to them.

So, your assumptions are not always true.

And just about once a week, we read about something where my assumptions are true.

"not always" does not equal "never" -- that's my point. I'm not trying to argue absolutes here. Just that in *certain cases* branding can represent a risk management issue.

that is a method but there are branding irons in the most widely used version of various fraternity and sorority brands

Thanks for saying that - I think we are on the same page now. :)

ZZ-Kai-

Yes, we are of the same mind on G C, but if a majority of your Greek organization are attending, normally in the eyes of the school, it and they will consider it a Chapter function in spite of all you have to say.

That seems to be the norm anymore, and I think has been stated in previous posts, that when X numbers of a certain group attend a party, it can be so considered to be such in their eyes.

Sucks tho!

Risk Management has become such a Strong ideal that it can put anyone in jepordy:confused:

The same thing will apply about branding, if a majority of members of said Greek Organization have been branded, the assumption will be that it is part of the Ritual or what ever.

Oh, by the way, you can find branding irons with Greek Letters all the time on ebay:mad:

There was even one with LXA on there and I wrote them about it. It was taken off.

TV Show: how to Brand
 

Thurs. night, on one of the few channels not yet devoted to Poker Tournaments, there was a show about branding, tattoos, and piercing.

Several Omegas, each with big decorative Omegas on their arms, showed how they were made by bending a coathanger and heating it with a blowtorch. Seemed very simple, and the brands were professional looking - if you like that kind of stuff.

The Omegas repeatedly said it was not hazing, since they all wanted it done.

The story continued, showing branding artists who heated a metal piece, and then used the piece to create body designs.

I think a great income-generating business in the future (probably in the Microsoft class) will be tattoo removal. Currently in the local alternative newspaper tattoo ads outnumber tattoo-removal ads about 10 to 1, so there's plenty room for growth.

HM hoosier, I just wonder why that would be?:rolleyes:

Better put a tattoo with mom on it, but if you stand on your head, it spells wow!:p