A comment from a prospective:

The problem is that if the PNM is doing her job getting her recs to all the houses of her school as y'all have suggested, the NPC affiliation is requested on many of the rec forms. This isn't just on my mom's sorority's form but on several other sororities' rec forms that are on the national websites. So even if on the college's recruitment registration form it only asks for NPC legacy affiliation yes or no and how the PNM is related to the NPC member ie sister, daughter, the nonlegacy sororities will know if you are a legacy to a specific house on campus because it will be on the recommendation forms sent to the chapters.

Exactly the problem!!

I had one person who was doing a recommendation for my daughter say that she would make a note that she would be open to all sororities on campus, not just her legacy.

This is what got me to thinking in the first place! :eek:

Not sure if I needed to make it clear that the recommendation was for a different sorority.

Five of my daughters have rushed and pledged. When the next 4 rush, we'll make sure that only their legacy sororities will know they're legacies. We want them to be judged on their own merits and not cut by some sororities because they're legacies to 4 others.

It used to be that being a legacy meant something but honestly, I've seen so much recruitment pain in the last 6 years as the number of legacies grows. So many sororities blow off cutting the girls--"maybe her mom was an ABC 25 years ago but we get to pick our members and she would fit somewhere else". I saw an incredibly rude email written from a chapter advisor to an alum whose younger sister was cut--along the lines of "we chose our girls, your sister wasn't one, so too bad for you". The thing is, these legacies who are cut are honestly no different from the ones they pledge. Our family might know 2 very similar girls rushing at the same school and the ABC legacy will be cut by them and her best friend, who has the same values and grades and looks and activities will make it in.

I wish I knew the answer to it all.

I love what sororities have to offer a girl...unity, friendship, philanthropy , a sense of family, etc...but I truly hate the process of getting in one!

I love that idea! Can you please let us know the exact phraseology? This would help when writing recs this summer.

I can't believe the advisor let the alum know that her sister had been cut by E-MAIL! :eek:

One positive about revealing legacies to other groups is that this lets the other groups know that the family understands Greek life and the girl will be likely to pay her dues and be a contributing member because she has probably heard about it all her life.

A note on what to say on recs:
If I know that a girl will be openminded in recruitment, I usually say "Susie knows a lot about the benefits of sorority life because of her sister/mom's sorority experience, but she is excited about creating her own Greek experience and is really pumped about meeting the DGs during recruitment." Just something to say that she is excited to look at every house, not just her legacy house.

The chapter didn't let the older sister know at all. The PNM called her sister, who had been waiting by her phone during recruitment and was excited because she'd heard no bad news from the chapter, and told her she'd been cut. The older sister contacted the chapter and the president pretty much hung up on her, though the caller was not unpleasant and only wanted to know why she hadn't heard anything.

Older sister then found the chapter advisor's email address and emailed her. The advisor was quite defensive and sent the rude email that pretty much played off their failure to contact her. I think that the sister then emailed her national group, forwarding the copy of the advisor's email, and never heard back.

I doubt that the older sister, who was very active while in college (also in Rho Lambda and Order of Omega), will ever be an active alum.

That's nuts. I mean, the least they could do is call her if they've got the nerve to cut her sister. I don't know what I'd do if DG cut my little sister and didn't even call me... but I know I'd be livid about it.

I wonder if that is the same chapter at UGA that "forgot" to call my sister's friend's mom when the friend was cut during recruitment.

Some NPC groups specifically do NOT tell the legacy of the PNM when they cut the PNM in order to protect the PNM's privacy.

Before you jump to too many conclusions, you should check DGs policy towards contacting the relative of a legacy PNM. Gamma Phi leaves it to the PNM to contact the person.

My chapter's policy was always that we had to contact the relative first and we were told that this was a national policy.

With the huge number of legacies going through recruitment, and the large number of PNM's at recruitment at some schools, when are these phone calls and emails supposed to happen? At schools where I have assisted with recruitment, chapters (not just ADPi) often don't finish with membership selection until after midnight sometimes... and PNM's have a very early "call time" to come and pick up invites for the next morning.

And why are the alumnae owed a phone call or heads-up to begin with? Are professors supposed to start calling parents when their child is habitually late to class?

As someone who sits through the selection meetings every night, every year, makes sure the invite lists are correct to turn in to Panhellenic by the deadline (typically 5am for us), gets my kids off to school in the morning, then is back at the Chapter house for the next round of parties with a smile on my face and trying to look like I had more than a few hours of sleep, yeah there is no time. Not with the number of legacies we now have going through Recruitment each year. (Side note: Is it any wonder I end up sick every year after Bid Day?)

Sure it would be a lot easier on a campus where only a few legacy PNMs were going through. But that's not the case on a lot of campuses, particularly SEC schools. Auburn is the most extreme example of this situation I know. I heard that the ADPi Chapter last year had 1 1/2 times quota worth of legacies going through. What was quota at Auburn last year? Something like 80+? (Sorry, don't remember) There's no way anyone in that Chapter could make around 100 phone calls. That is the primary reason by ADPi stopped requiring Chapters to call the alums when their legacy PNM is released.

As a Mom myself, I know it's got to suck big time! But as an Advisor, I'm grateful not to have to make all those calls. If someone calls me though I'm more than happy to speak to them. They probably will not like what I have to say because I'm not going to violate the confidentiality of our selection process.

I do my best to explain the difficulties in the process. I find that email Carnation spoke of to be appalling. This is our sister who is hurting and angry at her sorority. That email just poured salt in an open wound. I try as best I can to be supportive and explain the situation. It doesn't help much, but most of the time I think I've been successful at helping her get over her blinding rage.

I also instruct my Pres, Recruitment Vice Pres and every other officer to direct these calls to me. I will not allow my officers to be abused by angry alums which is often what ends up happening. The officers don't understand what they can and can't say, nor are they skilled in grief and/or anger management. Most of the time the active would end up in tears and the alum would still be boiling. I need my officers focused on the task at hand for the next round of parties. So I take on the responsibility of dealing with these difficult situations.

What about the alums that go to recruitment? I know of a few instances where an alum has travelled to her old school to "push" a girl through...or worse, make sure one doesn't get through.

Nothing infuriates my daughter(an active at an SEC school) more than an alumnae who vetoes(no recs) a girl that the other actives like and want, and there is nothing they can do about it. She related a story once where a very nice girl that they all liked, had a rumor spread about her in a small town. An alum that was present at rush and had heard about it, and believed it, refused to listen to the actives when they told her it wasn't true at all. My daughter says that they are the ones in the sorority now, and they are the ones who have to get along with this new sister...it should be their decision, not the alums , about who they are going to be spending their time with.

I do think being a legacy should mean something though...at least get them another round so that the girls have a chance to get to know them and see if she does fit in...but just because she is a legacy should not be the final determining factor.

You make it sound like alumnae are involved with MS and voting? What? Or are you saying that they are just trying to exert influence?

At UGA, I've heard stories from several chapters about alums coming into the house during work week to say good or bad things about rushees to make them vote for/against the girls. We never had that happen during the formal rushes when I was there, but I can see how it might frustrate a chapter for an alum to just "drop by" to try to influence voting.

Apparently, they write an "instant" rec and mark "not recommended" on it...if this happens, the GLO cannot take the girl no matter what. So the actives never get to vote on her. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Is this a local?? I don't know of any NPC that would have a policy like this!!:eek:

I don't think there are locals at SEC schools.

I didn't think so, but then again, I've never heard of alums vetoing a PNM either.

Isn't it standard that Alums and actives can write letters to the recruitment committee if they have prior knowledge of a questionable PNM?

Yes, but I don't believe that it completely cancels out the actives (or commitee) even being able to vote on the PNM, like the poster indicated.

I think that depends on the organization and/or situation. I know for a fact that one of our alumnae members vetoed one of the girls on our bid list due to some unknown reason. The rush chair and the alum had a screaming match over it; our advisors sorted it out..and the alum won.

This is exactly what happened in my daughter's sorority, which is a well known NPC GLO by the way. They got her to the 2nd round as the rush chair and alum continued to fight...but the alum refused to budge on her "not recommended" and was the pnm was pulled off the list. The girls never saw her to vote on again.

I know that there is one local, Xi Delta, at UGA. They are a pretty big group.

do we have a poster on here from Xi Delta?

As with every difficult situation it's almost impossible to comment without knowing the specifics. Instead I'll say I investigate every No Rec received.

Is it a major issue or a minor one? Is it a rumor or fact? I call that alum and find out exactly what is going on. I see if we have any actives that are from the PNMs hometown/area and see what they know. I try to find other alums in the hometown/area that might be able to shed more light on the situation. If I don't know the alum that wrote the No Rec, I see if I can find someone who does in order to get a better take on that alum's character judgement. If applicable, who wrote her rec(s)? I call them too. I talk to the actives that have been recruiting the PNM and really like her.

It's time consuming and difficult because I have to protect the confidentiality of the alum and the reputation of the PNM. So my questions are usually general such as "Polly PNM is from your hometown and she is going through Recruitment. Do you know her? How well do you know her? How long have you known her? What can you tell me about her? Do you think she would make a good sister?" If there is a problem with a PNM, most folks will say something without me having to ask point blank or having to say where I heard it from first.

After all that, I have a meeting with my other Advisors and my Province Director. As a group we discuss the findings and make a final decision. Just as no single active is able to issue a bid, I believe no single alum should be allowed to deny one without a thorough review. Fortunately we don't get too many.

Yes there is a member of Xi Delta here. Here screen name is Xidelt.

So if a PNM beats out my daughter for Homecoming Queen or cheerleader, I can screw over that PNM by giving her a "No Rec." Wow. This sounds like a situation where some rules were contorted.

You can only go by what your sister says and hope it is the truth...