Re: Re: Re: General Reply...
 

No, I don’t think that these rumors are intended to keep AOII off campus. I am referring to a larger general problem of bashing another group to make your own look good.

Snaps to Tippiechick for the best post of the day.

Let me start by saying I think it is BS everyone has slammed this new GC member. He was not the first person to mention the witchcraft and appeared to me to only follow-up with his experience while he was at FSU...

FSUSigEpAlum... Welcome to GC... see the way it works around here... if your first post is not something we think you should state then you get slammed! :D You must know that your first post should be "Hi, I am John Doe, from City, I was an XYZ at University between 19xx-19xx. :D I am not saying I agree with anything you said.. I personally do not think there is anything to agree with or disagree with... You seem to me to merely be stating an opinion or insight from your expereince at FSU. And I do not believe you were the first person to bring up the witchcraft incident. So GC, before we scare off another new member to the board, lets try to understand what he is saying... means... etc.

And yes, you probably did take up too much of your time with this subject.. however, GC will reel you in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hard to understand what someone says and or means when they keep changing their story...

zzzzzz @ thread
 

As an AOII and the granddaughter of an AOII at FSU - actually it was Florida State College for Women when she was there - the best thing we can do with this conversation is return it to the main thread - and that was FSU Panhellenic Extension INFORMATION - not rumors, dis-information or rehashing rumors, rude remarks etc.... so let's let by-gones be by-gones and consider this a fresh start -

I for one think it is amazingly exciting that FSU is opening up for expansion, I have friends in three sororites there now - and my brother is in a fraternity there now..... and I have heard nothing but wonderful things about that greek system - which is hard for me to admit since I went to UF! I of course hope that AOII gets the offer - but I wish the best for whoever goes there. I am sure that each organization presenting understands the time, energy, and resources - both human and financial - that will be necessary to make their newest chapter a success - and as a member of my organization's colony development team I can say there is much of all of the above needed. Let's wish them all luck and pass on as much INFORMATION possible that will help not only the chapter chosen and the FSU greek system but the Greek world in general.

ok that is my two cents (remember you get what you paid for) and i'll step off my soap box.....

as a good friend of mine always says, Onward and Upward and leave the rest behind!!!!

Tasha

Tippiechick, That could be true... I will be honest and say I did not read everyones posts through... including his. What I did read... read to me his opinion or observations from his time at FSU. All said Panhellenically, A&As

wow - why is it that this site seems to latch on to certain new members like a starving dog with a bone?

i myself don't particularly like posting on the open forums for this very reason...

it's amazing to me how quickly some individuals are to lash out at others-

and NO I'M NOT REFERING TO JUST THIS THREAD - "I am referring to a larger general problem of bashing another person's posts to make your own look good, " and this (at times) hypocratic overemphasis of being the most "panhellenic" GCer on the site.

what's the point of having an open forum if only certain opinions are really welcome?

::steps off soapbox::

- marissa

aopirose - btw, modifying your quote wasn't an attack, i simply liked the wording and felt that it fit well with what i was trying to express...


edited to add - welcome to GC FSUSigEpAlum, hopefully you stay around!
:)

*round of applause*

Joins ZTAngels in applauding Angels&Arrows...

Back to Our Regularly Scheduled Thread
 

So I was thinking about housing, and what's important about housing. I broke it down into 5 categories:

Location, location, location. The house really needs to be in an area that is confined. This makes acquiring a house difficult. No one has stated who currently owns the former AOPi and AZD houses. I'd like to know. The new greek park is 2 miles away from the nearest sorority house. That won't work.

Exterior Looks: Not important, and no correlation. The Theta house looks like a 1972 dental office complex. The Thetas at FSU are awesome. The Sigma Kappa house is beautiful. They folded twice in the last 20 years.

Interior Looks: Somewhat important. It just needs to be presentable, but maybe the ladies at FSU can offer more insight.

Sleeping Capacity: I think that this may be very important. DZ used to struggle to make quota in their house. It was a very pretty house, and had the smallest sleeping capacity of any FSU sorority house at under 30 (26?) Then they did a renovation/expansion of the facility, and it became the FSU sorority house with the greatest sleeping capacity (over 70.) DZ hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, struggled since, and talking with my active chapter brothers, they are now held in high regard. Several even told me that DZ is their favorite house.

Parking: I think that this might also be important, and overlooked. KD is highly competitive, and has less than a dozen parking spaces behind their house. They also own a lot, used as a parking lot, across the street. Sigma Kappa had a parking capacity of 4 cars when I lived in that house.

So, from my observations, a house is needed that sleeps over 35, with parking in a good location.

The most important thing is that whoever colonizes, succeeds. If this colonization fails, it may be a while until another sorority is invited back on campus.

Why do you think its important for a new sorority house not to have a chpater in greekpark? I am not sure that it would be a disadvantage to be in a new chapter facility in the midst of some of the strongest men's groups at FSU (assuming the stronger groups are the ones with more members and building the new houses).

1) It would be difficult to coordinate logistically during rush
2) It would appear that the new sorority is in a very, very distant location. This greek park might be next to FSU's campus in 25 years, but its not close to it today.

I just found this thread...
 

I will be attending the forum on Thursday night. I know several people that are attending this evening.

A few facts:

Tri-Sigma and Sigma Kappa were not forced off campus. They voluntarily closed their houses due to financial and membership considerations. They both own their houses and lease to fraternities at this time. There is no final word on which fraternities will be moving to the new housing area, but the word on the street is that only the fraternities will be moving there, not the sororities.

Gamma Lambda did petition for associate membership in PH a few years ago, as preparation for their request to expand, but were voted down. This October, PH voted to expand the campus independent of Gamma Lambda's request.

My personal opinion is that a historically inclusive or non-sectarian fraternity (such as AOII, SDT, AEPhi or DPhiE) would be a good fit for the FSU campus.

I know that AOII has over 100 alumnae in the area. SDT, DPhiE and AEPhi have very few or no alumnae in Tallahassee. There are smaller, yet good sized, alumnae chapters for Tri-Sigma, Sigma Kappa, AXiD and APhi.

In addition to Gamma Lambda there is another local on campus, Delta Zeta Nu. There are also 2 multicultural and 1 Latina sorority and 1 Asian-American sorority on campus. There is obviously a need for a group that is historically more inclusive. I don't think that the "Jewish" sororities need to be filled with Jewish girls. On some campuses with those groups, very few of the members are Jewish in that chapter.

I urge everyone here to keep an open mind, do not spread rumors and be supportive of the expansion process as a whole.

Edited to clarify the alumnae statement.

Barb--

I respectfully disagree with the comment that D Phi E has very few alumnae in Florida. D Phi E has very strong chapters at UF, FIU, FAU, and Nova Southeastern and more than 1700 alumnae in Florida. That may not seem a large number, but Florida is the fourth largest home to D Phi E alumnae, and as such, would be a lot of alumnae in terms of our sorority. That being said, I can understand where everyone comes from in terms of the larger, southern sororities and their numbers. D Phi E, being younger than most groups, means we won't have 10,000 alums anywhere.

Hope that helps explain our side :) I'd love to come to FSU, and think a non-sectarian, inclusive sorority would certainly be welcome on the campus. Be sure to keep us updated!!

This might answer some of the questions posed above. The old AOPi house is owned by Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity. Sig Ep will be moving to the new row, and it is likely that the University will purchase the old house from them. At one time the U. wanted the property for expansion of an Arts Center, but that may have passed. I don't know if the old AOPi house is recoverable for use as a sorority house.
The old Alpha Xi Delta house is owned by Lambda Chi Alpha; they also have a house under construction on the new row. Lambda Chi intends to sell to a developer if possible. The house is probably not recoverable for use as a sorority house.
In response to some unfortunate comments that have been made about several of the sororities, let me say that none of the sororities who left did so under any bizarre circumstances. They all wanted to succeed. For the most part, what happened was very simple: some sororities built new houses or underwent expensive expansions in the 1960's and then got caught in a financial trap during the "hippie era". Low membership, more than anything else forced the houses to close their doors. On a very competitive campus with strict formal rush, once a sorority's membrship drops dangerously low, it's very very difficult to build it back up.
I respectfully disagree with Russellwarshay about sorority housing on the new row. The houses are limited to Greeks but not to fraternities. At one time that location was considered off campus, but today it's not. The new row is walking distance from the footbal stadium (there's a back bike path that comes out by The Doak), and the U. is going to provide regular bus service. Some of the eight fraternity "rental houses" will turn over in the next year providing opportunity for other fraternities and sororities. Someone already pointed out that it would not be a bad thing for a sorority to be located among some of the best fraternities on campus.
Not all the sororities at FSU are within easy walking distance from each other; that's why formal rush is conductd in phases. A new sorority or two on the new row could be accomodated. The price is right: for a $20,000 refundable fee, a fraternity or sorority can have their own brand new 2,500 square foot brick clubhouse with their own 3-storey 48-person brick housing unit.
We have nearly 40,000 students and the majority of them are women. I wish PanHellenic would consider allowing more than one sorority to colonize here.

She didn't write "Florida", she wrote, "area." Did you do a DB pull, for members in a 50 mile radius for Tallahassee, from your home, off of the DPhiE servers, in the middle of the night? :rolleyes:

Florida is a big state. The driving distance from Key West to Pensacola, is greater than Pensacola to Chicago.

I think that a DPhiE NO (I think shadokat is an NO, if not, she's at the very least a VERY active DPhiE alumna) would know better that you or a non-DPhiE. Seriously Russ, please chill out on this thread, you are not the god of sorority expansion at FSU- don't attack and/or b@tch out anyone who doesn't agree with you.

ETA: DphiE has 5 chapters in FL. I'd venture a guess that some live in that area. AOTT also has 5 chapters in Florida.

According to the AOTT website, there's not an established AA in the Tallahassee area. I can't tell from the DPhiE website, there's not many AAs listed.

oh but didn't you know that he is the all-knowing on all things greek and is right in every thread he posts in? and bitches out everyone that disagrees with him?

Why don't we wait for Heather to get a DB pull on DPhiE alumnae in 323xx. If its more than 100 (which is what she had an issue with in Barbara's thread), I'll apologize. Otherwise, maybe, just maybe, I might now a thing or two of which neither of you are aware, and then Dani, you can chill out and back down.
If you don't like what I post, just put me on ignore. Otherwise, if you can show me where I've made an absolute statement, and I've been wrong, show me. You can't. I've never had an issue with you, but you just had to publicly attack me. Nice.

I meant alumnae in the Tallahassee area. The last time I requested a listing from your nationals (for Alumnae Panhellenic), I was told there was no-one living here.

Russ, you're an intelligent guy and often have a lot of insightful things to say. However, the manner in which you go about doing them often clouded the benefits what you have to say could potentially have.

Correcting sorority members about their own sororities (this is not an isolated event) and being rude to anyone that does not agree with your opinion is disrespectful and unfraternal. Please think about how the manner in which you make your comments reflects upon you and your fraternity- especially as a NO of your fraternity. The constant sarcastic comments, and "i'm right and you're wrong" tone of your messages to anyone who doesn't agree is not necessary. You can respectfully disagree with someone without such tones, sarcastic comments, and rolling eyes smilies.

Yes, you may know something about the area. But other people might as well. I know you went there, you know a lot about the area. But you also don't live there now. Add to the fact that you're a fraternity member, and not a sorority member, and they are two very different things when it comes to expansion. The issue is not so much with what you know, it's how you're expressing it.

Russ, while your post is mean-spirited at best, I was making a point that we do have alumnae in Florida. Being from Philadelphia, I don't know how far it is from Pensacola to anywhere, nor at this point, do I care.

As kddani said, I am a DPhiE International Director. I do have a listing of my own of the # of alumnae in every state, which is where I pulled 1700 from. For the information of all who care, we have 87 alumnae in the "area".

Now Russ, take the chip off your shoulder for a few moments. 87 is fairly close to 100.

As I stated in a previous thread, your representation of Phi Psi is definitely not representative of the fratnerity as a whole, and thankfully I've met plenty of other Phi Psi's who are really fabulous people and more than make up for your unpleasant attitude.

And Barb, sorry for misunderstanding the word area...I just thought Florida and not your direct community. :)

No problem. I'm surprised to hear about there being so many alumnae in the area. As I stated before, when I requested a list from your nationals in order to get DPhiE involved in Alumnae Panhellenic, I was told there was noone here. :confused:

Please feel free to contact me off-list regarding this - I'd love to have DPhiE represented on APH. We have many groups w/o local chapters on the council, several serving as Exec Officers.

Barb--

I put a call in to one of my "Peeps", and I'll try to get you a few names to contact via email.

Hopefully it helps!!! :)

Barbara, does Gamma Lambda have a website and if so, do you have a link? All I could find were the blurbs about them on the JSU & Hillel pages.

If the group chosen is one that is historically Jewish-interest, do you think GL will attempt to join them?

Gamma Lambda does not have a web site that I know of.

I don't know their intentions regarding expansion since FSU-PH is not opening up the campus specifically for them. I do know that at least 3 of the 8 groups that submitted proposals are aware of Gamma Lambda and are interested in the group. MOre than that, I cannot say.

While AOII does not currently have an active Tally AC, we are working with area alumnae. It is important that we have their support to serve as resources for the new group. I am sure that any group without an active AC is doing the same. It almost goes without saying for those with active ACs.

I had no luck finding Gamma Lambda’s either but I did find one for Delta Nu Zeta. www.deltanuzeta.org It looks like a pretty nice group.

Edited to say that I just tried the DNZ link again and there's nothing there. They did have a very nice site up last week. Hopefully, it will be up again.

33girl, I don't know if you have livejournal but there is an LJer who is a Gamma Lambda and a member of the sororitygirl community there. She would probably be willing to answer questions for you! She seems really sweet.

One of my babysitters is a Gamma Lambda pledge.

I went to the Extension Forum last night and it was a very well-run event. The PHC is taking all comments, both pro and con, into consideration and every house on campus has been studying the expansion packets in detail and will be voting on Tuesday to select which 3 groups will be coming back to present in April.

The diversity issue is a BIG one and I think that the current groups on campus realize that. They are all very aware of Gamma Lambda's hard work overall and their desire to bring a historically Jewish group to campus. The recent proliferation of cultural groups on campus is also a big incentive towards inviting a more inclusive NPC group to campus.

I'll know more on Tuesday after the Panhellenic meeting & voting.

Question
 

Could they not bring more than one at the same time, since their markets are substantially different? I would think bringing in a Jewish-emphasis sorority would be fine, but would do little to solve the problem of too few "general interest" sororities. Do the 'multi-culturals' also have to go through this extension process, or can they just appear as they will? Thanks.

Article from the FSU newspaper
 

Sorority Survivor

Panhellenic Conference will expand, but only one sorority will be chosen.

Florida State University's Panhellenic Conference began the process of expanding its ranks Tuesday, receiving proposals from eight groups that want to be the next memeber of FSU's Greek system and debating the measures that will be used to pick the group.
The conference, made up of the 14 sororities already on campus, will choose from Alpha Epsilon Phi, Alpha Omicron Pi, Alpha Phi, Alpha Xi Delta, Delta Phi Epsilon, Sigma Delta Tau, Sigma Kappa, and Sigma Sigma Sigma.
"We want a house that will mesh well with our community," Panhellenic Extension Chairperson Wendy Hall said.
During the discussion, characteristics such as recruitment, national and regional support, philanthropy, leadership and housing were cited as important criteria. The group also agreed that the new sorority would also have to be competitive.
Members of the Gamma Lambda Jewish Sisterhood, Hillel and Alpha Epsilon Pi, a historically Jewish Fraternity, were present to persuade Panhellenic members to vote in a historically Jewish sorority.
Gamma Lambda, which currently has approximately 50 members, has been at FSU for four years but still doesn't have national support, so they did not apply for Panhellenic membership, Gamma Lambda President Hillary Offenberg said.
But three of the sororities that are applying - Delta Phi Epsilon, Sigma Delta Tau and Alpha Epsilon Phi - are historically Jewish sororities. The latter two were both previously on campus at FSU.
Offenberg was optimistic that a Jewish sisterhood would get the nod.
"I think there's a strong possibility, because there's such a huge need for it on campus," she said.
Other memebers of the Jewish community also spoke on why a Jewish sorority should be brought to campus.
"One thing that Florida State prides itself on is unity through diversity," Alpha Epsilon Pi member Ryan Saul said. "We unite under one thing: that we are all different. And by bringing in something that is different we can only strengthen our University."
According to Hall, the FSU sororities will look through the informational packets that were submitted by the eight sororities wishing to be selected. There will be another open forum Thursday of this week to further discuss any details, followed by the submission of each sorority's top three picks.
When Panhellenic meets next week, it will announce the top three choices overall and extend an invitation to those choices to come to FSU and give a presentation on why they shoud be selected. The presentations will occur some time in April, Hall said. After that, the winning sorority will be chosen.
The process is new to Panhellenic. The conference had never been charged with this task before, so Panhellenic representatives spoke with other universities who have gone through the process of expanding and took away ideas to work with, resulting in the current method.

Alpha Phi would rock at FSU- We need more ACC Chapters. They would have the total support of internationals (there are two chapters in FL, that in my opinion, ROCK) ALso, its not that far that htey can have events with other chapters in the ACC (like a pre rush fun week at Wilmington or Miami)

Alpha Phi is also super awesome up north and out west. Girls from those regions would also be attracted to Alpha Phi.

Re: Question
 

Because even if a historically Jewish sorority is chosen, they'll still be doing rush with all the other NPC groups. If it was still a case of no one but Jewish women being allowed to join those groups, they probably could bring on two.

The multicultural sororities have an entirely different rush process so they don't have to go through Panhellenic.

And someone needs to call the paper and scream that D Phi E is NOT historically Jewish!!! (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Re: Re: Question
 

And add that FSU is home to their Iota chapter.

Re: Question
 

I don't believe they want to add 2 groups at the same time. The multicultural groups aren't part of PHC, so they go through approval via the Student Affairs/Greek Life offices. There is currently 1 national Latina, 1 national Asian-American, and 2 multicultural sororities.

Re: Question
 

I agree with Firehouse. Also, bringing on a Jewish sorority (and that is how DPhiE is perceived in this region, especially if DPhiE is interested in this local) might create problems, if that is the only sorority being brought on. It is doubtful, but not impossible, that a Jewish sorority will become a 120+ woman organization at FSU. I just don't believe that there is the demand. All of the active NPC chapters take Jews. As do the fraternities. When I was active, we had only one Jewish fraternity, and they had less than 20 active. Other historically Jewish fraternities have popped up at FSU in more recent years, and they have either folded, or they took a non-sectarian aproach to their chapter culture.

What happens if this local is allowed to affiliate with an NPC group, and they can't hit total? Do we wait another 15 years before another NPC group is allowed on? That would not be good for FSU's greek system. Also, I don't believe that refusing a local, that uniquely fills a market niche, is in anyone's best interest.

I hope that Gamma Lambda proves me wrong in my assessment about their ability to become a fully competitive NPC group. I also hope that the FSU Panhellenic reconsiders only adding one group. What would be so terrible about allowing Gamma Lambda to affiliate with a NPC group, and become a full member in FSU's Panhellenic, while simultaneously allowing another NPC group to recolonize? As long as that second NPC group has resources for housing, they will be able to succeed.

BTW, multi-culturals operate more like NPHC groups, so they don't need Panhellenic's blessing.

One key point, and a favorable one, that came out of last night's meeting is that historically Jewish does not mean exclusively Jewish. This point was brought home by a FSU Grad Assistant who is not only an SDT alumna, she is a former Leadership Consultant AND is not Jewish. There was a great deal of discussion of how, on other campuses in FL, SDT chapters are 1/2 & 1/2 (ie. half Jewish and half non-Jewish).

Barbara

Thanks 33girl & aopirose for your corrections to the article. Russ, yes D Phi E has historically Jewish roots in FL at U of F and somewhat Miami. But both of those chapters have become more 1/2 and 1/2. I know that D Phi E would certainly want to attract quality women of any affiliation.

barbara,
 

please keep us posted as things begin to transpire. it is an exciting time at fsu!!lisa