Gina_lynn:

Thanks for sharing that bit of Delta history! I love it when we can freely exchange information and ideas! I am going to be digging in my AKA archives and asking older sorors for additional information about single-letter chapters.

Any guess why HBCUs didn't get the "triple A" distinction, especially at a time when much of the black academic talent was centered at these schools? Btw, I do find it interesting that a handful of white schools: Harvard, U. of Chicago, etc. where churning out black graduates at the beginning of the 1900s, even while the schools had policies barring blacks from using university housing, dining services and the like.

DANG!!! See how much I miss when I don't log in in the afternoon? Very interesting everyone. It seems as if the question concerning SGRho was answered already, so I'll leave it alone. But I think everyone's right about how interesting it would be to know more about out first chapters in depth. Geez, if only I could be as enthusiastic about learning World history as I am about Greek history. Could you imagine?.... Nah, me either. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
PEACE: Proper Education Always Corrects Error
SoloRHO

Now Positively, No no no no....the Alpha's didn't start BGLO's. Their founders started APhiA. Respectfully each BGLO founders for whatever reason founded their perspective organization. If the Alpha's started BGLO's then that is saying that WGLO's started APhiA. Notwithstanding, unless APhiA's founders are still living, no Alpha or AKA can soley reserve the right to speak on the issue because no living member existed or coexisted during that time. Most of the ones in school today are between the ages of 18 and 26. But, there is some information that some members(not all) of BGLO's are familiar with that expresses the nature of the original founding of BGLO's, and that is in the "East".....Above all speculation it is a fact that the Honorable Founders of all BGLO's were motivated by the "Light". Period. It might be confusing to many and that is to be expected, but it exists to this very day and unless you are on that level you can only state unsurities. This statement is my fact and no fraternity member or sorority member who has seen what I have seen can or will dispute my words. Even your own soror if she either sits or looks to the "East".

Now a bit information: Study the founding of APhiA and the reason thereof not APhiA.

Now Positively, No no no no....the Alpha's didn't start BGLO's. Their founders started APhiA. Respectfully each BGLO founders for whatever reason founded their perspective organization. If the Alpha's started BGLO's then that is saying that WGLO's started APhiA. Notwithstanding, unless APhiA's founders are still living, no Alpha or AKA can soley reserve the right to speak on the issue because no living member existed or coexisted during that time. Most of the ones in school today are between the ages of 18 and 26. But, there is some information that some members(not all) of BGLO's are familiar with that expresses the nature of the original founding of BGLO's, and that is in the "East".....Above all speculation it is a fact that the Honorable Founders of all BGLO's were motivated by the "Light". Period. It might be confusing to many and that is to be expected, but it exists to this very day and unless you are on that level you can only state unsurities. This statement is my fact and no fraternity member or sorority member who has seen what I have seen can or will dispute my words. Even your own soror if she either sits or looks to the "East".

Now a bit information: Study the founding of APhiA and the reason thereof not APhiA.

Sir i did not mean to say that they founded every frat and sorority in the bglo movement http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif i didn't say that, my bad if it came off that way, of course they didn't, they just started the MOVEMENT http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif In terms of speaking on a subject, unless you are familiar with the intricate history of Alpha (a member, i don't mean where they were founded, colors etc. its deeper then that) or were there when the Jewels founded Alpha then it is best not to speak on it, otherwise it is pure speculation, that's my point, and again i will leave that along because i am not an Alpha Man. I know every bglo's has its own reason for its founding, that is why i did not try to address them i spoke on AKA. So what bglo are you representin?

I am glad to see that people try to research and post some history. I have to disagree with the origin of Black Greek Letter Organizations. I am a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated.We were founded at Cornell University December 4, 1906. At the time of our founding..our Jewels felt a need to have a fraternity for Black college men. The opportunity to join white fraternities would have not served thier purpose. What will SIGMA CHI, SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON do for the Black community. Gina Lynn why didn't you join DELTA DELTA DELTA or GAMMA PHI BETA...You had that opportunity. The doors were open for you. Why DELTA SIGMA THETA? The doors of the white fraternities and sororities at the time when our organizations were founded did not welcome us. My founders knew what they were doing. Creating a organization to uplift the Black Community. I cannot speak for the later fraternities on there reasoning to start another when A PHI A was already around. We started out of a need.

First of all, thank you APhiA rep for giving us the real deal. We should all be well aware of the necessity for the founding of APhiA and other BGLOs as well.

Gina Lynn, damn, what is UP with the misinformation? I can see you giving us what you know of other BGLOs, but how do you continuously give out the WRONG info about your own Delta Sigma Theta? You should know that there was no Delta chapter at Butler U ever. There is a citywide, but that wasn't established until 1925. Also, your comment about Delta policy of only approving chapters for triple A rated schools? Triple A? In Search of Sisterhood *a book that anyone can buy in the store* distinctly states that schools had to be rated A. Here's the excerpt:
p.92
"Under the influence of Sadie Alexander, Delta, nominally at least, only accepted chapters at institutions that were rated "A" by the Association of American Universities, the North Central Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools, or the Northwest Association of Secondary and Higher Schools."

Did I miss two A's? Please, back track, and do not post things unless you know them to be true. It makes people wonder what kind of young ladies are being brought into Delta? Apparently ones who don't know the info. Thank goodness I know better.

Good day

Perhaps the "history version" was meant to state they were the first "new" BGLO "founded and established" on Butler U's campus.

The truth is AKA was only "founded" once...every other chapter was following the foundation of Alpha chapter...new charters...but not the "Mother Pearl"...as we say at Howard.



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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

First, I would like to direct you to the post following the one that you chose to highlight, where, like a woman, I acknowlaged my mistakes. Secondly, it depends on what reading you use to find the A to AAA comparison. Some school rating systems used a system that started with A, others used one that started with AAA and that compairison had to be accounted for. It's similar to the way that some schools are on a 3 point scale while others are on a 4 point scale.

And as for your (completely unneccesary) linkage of my mistake to all of the ladies in my sorority, I am sorry that you haven't had the pleasure of meeting and being wowed by my sorors in your area in a way that would make it unneccesary to base your whole opinion of over 200,000 women based on a single post. You should seek them out and see what wonderful things they were doing. I would write you personally, but, yet again, such insightful and uplifting information has been provided through an UNREGISTERED USER.

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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown

[This message has been edited by Gina_lynn (edited July 19, 2000).]

I belive the "Light that shines in the East" that Dirty Bill is referring to is that of the Masons and Eastern Stars.

-well, this had been good!

-i thank each of the people who posted tidbits of info about Delta and AKA and Alpha and SGRho that one might not normally know.

-to say that Alpha started the 'MOVEMENT' of foundations of other BGLO's is a little misguided. first of all, as we all know, the first fraternity founded was Phi Beta Kappa, founded at the College of William and Mary, and the first sorority [if i'm not mistaken] was Alpha Delta Pi, where it was was founded escapes me right now... but anyway, those organizations set the precedents for founding organizations that embodied the spirit of fraternity and brotherhood and sisterhood. maybe we should recognize them, instead.

-i cannot speak as an authority for Alpha, Kappa, Omega, or Iota, but as far as Sigma is concerned, our founders wished to create a fraternity that embraced and emphasized the TRUE spirit of fraternity, as understood by the ancient Greeks, as well as for the uplifting of the black community as a whole by emphasizing it's role as A PART OF the community instead of APART FROM it. the initiator of that dream, A. L. Taylor had a grand design for a fraternity.
-what i have come to understand about Kappa is that it started out as kind of social support group, Kappa Alpha Nu, but the administration wouldn't let them organize, so they met secretly off-campus, thereby forming Kappa Alpha Psi.
-what i have come to understand about Omega is that it started out as a bible study group for the black professors, and in time it turned into Omega Psi Phi fraternity.
-what i have come to understand about Iota is that they started out as a mock-Greek org. in the 60's. back then, mock groups like Groove Phi Groove and Wine Psi Phi popped up. and then there was I Phelta Thigh, which some members then took steps to organize a fraternity that was afro-centric and family and ethics oriented, thus Iota Phi Theta.

-like i said earlier, i don't claim to be an authority. ask somebody, 'go back and do more research' http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

-i'm out.

- i missed wraping my point up from early in my last post... in conlcusion, Alpha was the first surviving BGLO [Sigma Pi Phi was the first established], founded out of necestiy as stated by A_PHI_A_MUCHI_11-5-95_#3. Each subsequent BGLO was founded out of a necestiy as deemed so by their founders.

-i'm out

Group, I have to apologize for my ignorance, but are you serious? Wine Psi Phi? I Phelta Thigh? Is that for real??? I don't mean to disrespect ANYONE. I just really wanna know. Hook a sistah UP!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif)
I find it hard to believe that Iota Phi Theta and all that they stand for, as a member of the Divine Nine, was once "I Phelta Thigh". Sorry ya'll I just need some clarification. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif)

SoloRHO
PEACE: Proper Education Always Corrects Error

I don't know about the Iota Phi Theta/I Phelta Thigh bit, but I can vouch for the Wine Psi Phi bit

Wine Psi Phi and their sister sorority, Beta Phi Burgundy has been classified by some as a subrosa group. These are organizations who are social and drinking is their "purpose?". In 1977 a brother of Wine Psi Phi died as a result of drowning while drunk? (I don't know the specifics offhand, but I do know it occured in Tennessee).

For more info on these two subrosa groups, read Wrongs of Passage or Broken Pledges, both written by Hank Newer.

Hope this helps.

THanks RainMan.
I definately will look into those books.
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif)
SoloRHO

Solo I have heard of Groove phi groove and since you are on college club too, I know they have a board in there under the greek life message boards, I'm actually gonna cheack it out tonight so I'll let you know what I find out

Actually, I've known about Groove phi Groove SFI and Swing phi Swing SFI for some time now. My best friend is the president of his chapter of GphiG. What threw me for a loop was the Wine Psi Phi org. I had never heard of it. But I will definitely follow Rain Man's lead and read those books. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif)

Where are you all getting your information? Some of this just simply can not be from documented research.

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Director #2
LMAC
Spr 99

As I mentioned before, I got my research from the books "Broken Pledges" and "Wrongs of Passage" by Hank Newer regarding the Beta Phi Burgundy and Wine Psi Phi bit. If you were referring to someone else's post, I apologize.

DON'T BELIEVE ME? CHECK IT OUT!

As I mentioned before, I got my research from "Broken Pledges" and "Wrongs of Passage" by Hank Newer about the Beta Phi Burgundy/Wine Psi Phi incident. If Director DST99 was referring to someone else's post, I apologize for being on the defensive.

DONT BELIEVE ME? CHECK IT OUT!

Da Rain Man


[This message has been edited by Rain Man (edited August 07, 2000).]

Rain man, if your research is indeed documented then I was not referring to your posts. Those who can't back up what they say are the ones I'm addressing. It's all good on this end boo!

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Director #2
LMAC
Spr 99

I guess i'll give my two cents on this matter. I will say that as far as Delta was concerned, we were not founded b/c we couldn't join other GLO's. My founders saw a need for change in the African-American community pertaining to the treatment of Blacks during that time. They journeyed on quest to conquer social injustice for the Black people. Their main goals were not to just start an organization just to fit into the GLO's organizations and/or standards, but wanted to make a difference and a change in they way of life for Blacks. I seriously doubt that they were concerned with being a part of a GLO just because it was "cute.". I suggest reading "In Search of Sisterhood" by Paula Giddings for littler more clarification on this matter.

*********************************
Yes, for those of you who are wondering, Groove Phi Groove does exist. They also have a sister organization, Swing Phi Swing. I have visited their national websites and I heard that there are some ladies working on getting a charter of S Phi S on my campus. I don't know how true that part is, though. G Phi G expressly rejects a GLO or BGLO classification. Their legal name is Groove Phi Groove Social Fellowship, Inc.

I've heard A Lot about my beloved fraternity in this thread! I just want to clear up some things along with my frat earlier in the thread.

1. Alpha was founded out of necessity due to racial oppression and a NEED for brotherly bonds among men

2. All BGLOs were founded out of a need to serve the black community

3. While it is true that there was a burgeoning black middle class, only one of our founders was a part of that! The rest were primarily poor...educated, but poor.

4. ALPHA did do something special on December 4, 1906...it founded a fraternity via a prestigious college institution...which prospered and grew to develop into an organization that sustained its members through college...and aided the BLACK community. As I've said before on other threads, Sigma Pi Phi is NOT the same...it was neither founded to serve in this manner, nor does it continue to serve in that capacity...Sigma Pi Phi is much more like the Bone and Skulls of Princeton (it's a different kind of society.)

5. Our organizations in part were founded out of a need to serve Black Communities on predominantly white campuses....as anyone can easily see by charting our histories...many of our oldest chapters are at prestigious white institutions because it was at these schools that black folks could not live in housing...assemble...and did not have support...Almost every BGLO history will show that white faculty was in support becaue Fraternities and Sororities would give black people their own community structure! A structure that the college was reluctant to provide!

Howard is one of the only HBCUs to allow Greekdom to flourish...almost all HBCUs were reluctant to have these organizations because they thought it would splenter their campus...and cause division along color, class, and friendship...As example, AKAs and Deltas didn't come to Spelman until the early 70s

I want to talk more...but am afraid that I am always too longwinded

06 to my cold cold cold bruhz of Alpha Phi ALpha,
PHI-SKEE to those lovely ladies of Alpha Kappa Alpha (said with emphasis),

and much greek love to fellow fraters and sorors in the Black Greek Family,

I am,

The Ice Cold Kreator

Ice....Did not oppression continue to flourish after the founding of APhiA? It is robbery to imply that other BGLOs came about soley for community service. To say that eliminates every other frat and sorority that came to be after APhiA from having a humanitarian objective(which encompasses all aspects of service). Starting an organization of brotherhood on a college campus in 1906 did not serve the masses of black people that were suffering, only a revered few that were privilaged to attend college. Furthermore, there weren't even hardly any HBCUs around back then anyway. Also, with the secrets(history) that are involved in the initiation process, no man or woman can understand the true composition of any BGLO, and that remains a fact to this day. Masonry was the instrument of measure that was utilized by your founders to create your fine organization(period). Masonry preexisted and coexisted among blacks from day 1, well before APhiA was thought of, but it was not soley open to the college environment neither could it be exploited there. So, the precept to impliment some similar system was acted upon by forming APhiA. Masonry and Eastern Stardom was very active in African American culture and servitude. No! There wasn't a NEED for Brotherly bonding as you state, because if APhiA was that source then it would be open to every man and not just college students/grads and people of prestige. Masonry is open to all men of moral character who humbly seek the "Light."

Now, if there wasn't really a "Need" for other BGLOs after APhiA, then after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 APhiA should have disbanned because their purpose no longer existed.....that is unless they just wanted to do community service. And from my knowledge all BGLOs were created before then.

The Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Southern Christian Coaliton....all during the sixties....did far more to break the yoke that was on African Americans....they gave their lives(some were in frats but most were masons). So, you and your sorors can boast for all of the esteem and recognition of having been the first BGLO fraternity/sorority founded by and for whatever reasons, but unfortuneately there is no award for that. The reward is to perpetuate that which it was based on and that can be found in every BGLO.

And that's the bottom line........

Who preceded the Black Panthers, Southern Christian COalition and others...Pioneers. Without the epic struggle between men such as W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington, and not to mention Marcus M. Garvey. BGLO's were formed in response to the times, they were not formed to tame the evils of oppression. But to give blacks a voice. Your remarks are lucid but a little diluted. Nothing that happened in the sixties could have occurred without what happened prior. Each period of time was one which saw the evolution of a people. Sometimes, as in the sixties, the movement is swift and grand...However, more often than not, movement is incremental. Those incremental movements occur every day and should be recognized. There is no bottom line because the only true bottome line is death.

shdytl

Hello,

I said I wasn't going to post.....I made myself not respond for a pretty good while, but I decided not to hold back my thoughts.


Dirty Bill Clinton,

I don't really understand WHAT your response was. I actually read your response twice, and to you I still say .....WHAT are you saying? I see alot of words and that's all. Where did you get your info.? You referred to Alpha Phi Alpha, Masons, and the need for brotherhood in "those days."

Are you a member of Alpha Phi Alpha?

Are you a Mason?

Are you old enough to really know what was needed in that period of inception for BGLOs?

Just some questions? I look at people's credibility. Where's the research? Are we talking just to sound informed?

Dirty Bill...

there was no implication that all the organizations didn't serve a NEED!!!

I just said that ALPHA was at the forefront and it formed out of A NEED!...secondly, never underestimate the role that ALPHA has played in the community and the role model that ALPHA has played in abetting both the Black sorority movement and the Fraternity movement!

You are confusing my words...

Thirdly, many Greeks are and were members of those organizations like Black Panthers, N.O.I., etc. ...our organizations are not the only things that we were involved in

also...IN 1906...almost every HBCU had been running at least for 10 years!!! So your information is wrong...

NO one is downplaying the role of OUR Organizations....but NO ONE should downplay the role of ALPHA....National Representatives of all of the other Orgs. were recently at the ALPHAs Convention and said, "If there had been NO ALPHA, there might not be XYZ (us) (Sorority or Fraternity)!"

Pretty profound for THEM to say, what you are trying to dispute?

I'm out of Ice COLD time....

Much love to my Bruhz...06!
Much love to my Sisters...08!
Much love to the BGLO family...hold up the light!

I am,

The Ice Cold Kreator

OK.. wait! It seems that many of us are being swayed by our own propoganda! Hello!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Aren't we taking ourselves a little to seriously???

First, let's all remember that every single fraternity and sorority out there is two things: 1) exclusive and 2)social. Somewhere, someone got his/her friends together to form a club, that only certain people could join after passing certain tests. Sure, most of our founders had loftier principles they wanted espoused, but let's not get so high and mighty to think that's all our organizations are about. BGLOs were formed to fill a SOCIAL void. Something was missing socially in their lives. Hey, there were plenty of civic organizations they could have joined to strengthen their communities, but they chose to form GLOs instead. Sure...this idea is not NUMBER ONE in our organizations' mission list, but it's there. Remember the "Sisterhood...Brotherhood" ideals????

My sorority means the world to me. It always will, BUT I'm not dilluded enough to think it is the "end all, be all" nor was it founded to be so. Anyone who thinks that needs to get a life! (or at least get into the real world)

While I cannot speak with 100% certainty about any other BGLO, I know that my organization was not founded to merely satiate a social appetite. It was formed to meet a need of African American students on a predominantly caucasian campus. I feel that it is my duty to remember that, yes we are social but we take greater pride in our community service activities than our partying. I am not self-diluted in preaching the high standards of my fraternity. I am also not blinded with visions of grandeur to realize that there are problems which persist, some that we have made.

That sounds social to me. Social doesn't just mean boozing it up, dancing, and picking up girls/guys. It sounds to me like among many other things, blacks in the day needed a better/calmer/more relaxed social atmosphere than they had on this predominantly white campus. Feel free to put me in my place if I'm wrong.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

I understand how that sounds social and I am grateful for the manner in which you replied. In other chat rooms I've been in that would not have happened. I am not naive enough to say that the organization did not fill a social need to a degree but its primary focus lies w/civic and educational duties.

The social need of BGLO's has always been second to the communities needs!

I agree with Frater Hypothermia...what may look like social space may be for the greater good of the campus/community. You can go anywhere in the country and find out that BGLOs are really (and moreso) about Community Service! In our organizations, there is an obligation to serve the community as well as organize around the ideals of brotherhood.

But even if you look at our programming...you will notice that even our social programs will have a double purpose.

I can vouch for ALPHA, that our social experiences were only heightened by our community service (as a shared experience of our brotherhood)...

Just one mans opinion,

06,

I am,

The Ice Cold Kreator

So would you say then, that your org. is closer in function to APhiO than an NIC fraternity?

At my chapter, we do our fair share of campus/community work, but we also have a lot of social events. For the most part these are two separate parts of our programming. Maybe that's something we should work on though, doing more social events to benefit our philanthropy.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Yes, That's who I'm talking about.

NIC = National Interfraternity Conference, AKA, IFC. These are your "traditional" GLO fraternities.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Thanks for the clarification.

Thank You for the luv Ice Cold Kreator. I hasad a question about your first sentence in your reply Corbin Dallas. When you say APhiO are you referring to Alpha Phi Omega? Could you clarify what you meant when you referenced NIC?

ICYTRE, Where did I get my information? Where did you get yours? A pledge line and a frat history book? I am known and accepted amoung bretheren and fellows...Have been tried, never denied, and ready to be tried again...TRY ME! having said that....I am a MASON. I have been raised from a dead level to a living perpendicular on the square. My age is over 27, and I am very much so informed.
My information comes from a much higher source than APhiA history. I refuse to try to discuss your stuff so quit confronting me with it.
You say that I just speak words because your knowledge is limited to pledging in a frat.
You know the frat but not the orgin of the frat. Do you really think that the orgin of fraternities started in 1906? I hope not.

Ice,
What I was explicitly referring to was that before APhiA, Black men and women were already in a fraternity/sorority(Masonry/Eastern Star) doing the stuff that you say I should not underestimate. There are far more Masons and Eastern Stars than any organization. And, I am sorry to inform you that they have done a lot more than APhiA prior to APhiA's inception(ie.UNDERGROUND RAILROAD). In fact ask some of your bruhs who are Masons, because they are my frat bruhs also. Some of your founders were Masons. I don't need to be an Alpha to know simple info.

None of you can challenge me on any of your history because it is not a secret. Your ritual may be, but not your history.

Masonry encompasses all that you do. ALL.
Where did your founders get the grips you use? The three stage process? The Egyptian mystical system? What does the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd stage ellude to. What does the number 3 ellude to? What is your grip called? What does that ellude to? What are the perfect points of entrance? What is light? Can you solve the riddle of the sphynx? Black and Gold is not new...we wear black to bury the dead and light illuminates all for the revealing of knowledge and prosperity. Some of you Alphas question that which is already answered. You should not find favor in boasting about 06 & 08 and who was started first and so on. It is difficult for you to understand because you are blinded by misdemeanor issues. APhiA, the first BGLO....Cool....If it had not been for APhiA....xyz...would not existed. That makes a lot of sense. Plenty of Blacks died for the existence of Masonry. APhiA didn't compromise what Masons did. Masonry existed amoungst slavery and abject humanation in the early 1500's.

No my comments aren't dilluted, I just don't have enough time to teach a dot com club about stuff they fail to accept.

DirtyBillClinton,
You appear to be informed on some things. (keyword is appear) First of all, Alphas have never begun to attempt to take anything away from the Masons. We know that fraternities and sororities are rooted in Masonry. The question is, where is Masonry rooted? Africa? Europe? This might not be the proper avenue of communication for this topic or even to be discussed with me. I can only go by what I see, and to be honest, I don't see what Masons are doing in today's society. Once again, not taking anything from your organization, just conversation. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Dirty Bill,

No one is not giving your orgnaization credit...

But Alpha IS something Special...and while our founders maybe Masons...THEY ARE Still ALPHAs...

Do you know if they were Alphas or Masons first?

Secondly, unlike Masons....black Greek organizations require a degree of education.

I refuse to argue with you about the merit of ALPHA...

Our organizations are not solely based on yours...even though we do have our roots there...BGLOs do something a little different.

Call me when the Masons start doing mentoring to today's troubled teens. (not as individuals, but as an organization)

And another thing, you can't know my organization like I know it!!! It's just not possible! -- unless you are a member!

Holla at me Icytre!-- I'm trying to hold it up!

06,

Ice Cold Kreator

P.S. people always hate...when Alphas say we are first...we are...just deal with it...it's not an arguable point. Its a point of FACT!!!