Oh and how did some of you get so sensitized by life that you always look at the worst possible thing that can happen in any situation?

You are going to go absolutely batty when you are parents.

Some of you must be afraid to leave the house.

Do you have a thought process when you read accounts? Or do you guys just generally respond in an emotional fashion prompted by whatever PC buzzword is the fashion of the day?

I kind of an emotional sophistry where try to find small logical facts to justify a completely emotive reaction?

I see so little critical thinking in so many responses I begin to wonder if many of you are capable of detached analytical thinking and have fully formed criteria for judgement and decision making.

If they don't do it anymore its not hazing, and what do you mean pledge kidnapping not being an organized fucntion . . you mean every semester some brother would suddenly get a an impulse to kidnap a pledge on the spur of the moment?

IT depends on how they execute the project. I would imagine that going commando and putting a tied up blindfolded pledge in the trunk is hazing.

Having pledge brother number 1 sitting in mcdonalds eating while the others follow clues to come get him probbaly wouldn't be construed that way, unless there was a specific rule defining that as hazing. Kind of like making your pledges take an exam. Enforced memorization is defined as hazing.

Kayla, I'm sure you were not expecting half of GC to jump down your throat! :)

The fact is, though, that what you did could be construed as hazing - whether or not you intended it to be. The definition of hazing has gotten very broad in recent years. Even relatively innocuous things like requiring pledges to wear pledge pins at all times can be considered hazing because it separates the pledges from the actives.

I'm just saying be careful... next time your pledges are stressed out, have a spa night or something instead of scaring the living cr@p out of them. :)

There are certainly more positive ways to loosen up new members, and on most campuses, this would be considered hazing. Also, and this member of the campus police isn't that bright, their job could've been in jeopardy for taking part in a hazing incident. Hopefully folks will think twice....

I think why so many people start thinking about the worst possible scenario is bc thats how you usually have to think in most chapters.

So many people are so quick to cry hazing bc of events in the past that there has almost become this effect where everyone basically tiptoes around all situations and have totally changed so many events to avoid this.

I think a lot of times guys consider said events differently. Most girls will not tolerate the same types of things that guys will and are very self conscience (sp?). They do not like getting scared or feeling like they are judged.

I know that in just my four years as an active I saw so many many things change in our sorority since the day I pledged.

as for the original post.. i dont think that this is a real effective way to loosen up your pledges.. scaring them which this Im sure did to many is hazing. I dont know why in the first place your pledges needed to be "loosened up" but if they do need something fun to cheer them up.. i know i would always go through a slump midsemester.. then have something fun as a chapter.

hazing or not, that was one of the best practical jokes I have ever heard of! It's like a jamie kennedy experiment but not taped.

Interesting note, if those weren't pledges, but actives or even a group of her friends, this discussion would be different... but you all know that.

-M

Thank you for that comment XOMichelle and everyone else who didn't make that big of deal out of it :p

Just to explain some things, pledging is stressful here. You can be cut at any time with any reason. Please remember, Greek life is different on all campuses. Also, the girls were in their 5th and final week, you never know when you "will get in" around here, so they were ready to get pledging over with :p Some of the faculty found out about this the next day, they thought it was hilarious even and the parents wanted pictures, lol. We also keep a great relationship w/the cops around here (campus, county, & city) so they help out the Greeks here a lot.

Anyway, we all treat eachother like we really are biological sisters. I'm sorry but dag on, if you could wouldn't you like to mess with your sib's once in a while? ;)

PS: On the medical issues, we (unlike many other groups on campus) have our pledges fill out a medical form that way we know of anything that could effect them.

We take those bitches, blindfold them, and walk them through the woods.

But seriously, lighten up folks. I thought this prank was hilarious.

Agreed. I don't think it was hazing so much as it was just a really, really bad idea.

To relax our pledges, we just do what other people have posted - candy, movies, lots of hugs. We also invite them to some of our events so that they feel more like sisters. Like for our fall pledge class, one of the fraternities invited us to dinner at their house, so we brought along our pledges.

Ok, call me naive... Are there really NPC groups who don't let NMs know when they are going to be initiated? We were aware of it and were counting down the days! It made it so exciting. I could not imagine just waiting around to be initiated!

There definitely are. I know firsthand of people who didn't know. Actually, until I joined GC I never knew that groups were required to do this. I thought it was more of a choice that chapters got to make individually if they wanted to tell NM's or not. It all really boils down to how strict your national advisor is and how close of a relationship they have with that chapter.

the more i read on here the more amazed i am. the whole npc world is something i never knew about. i mean i knew that most greek orgs had the whole bid, rush system but the intricacies within it amaze me. i cant speak for all LGLO's but the ones that are on my campus (including mine) and on other midwest campuses are a whole nother ballgame. I had no idea when I was going to cross. For all we knew, it could have been as little as 60 days or as much as 120 days if not more. but i'm glad i didnt know. it made my process that much more interesting.

Lili

I'm sorry guys, but I think a lot of ya need to lighten up...

I don't know much at all of the qualifications of hazing... But honestly... To consider something like this as hazing is rediculous.

It was a prank, and a funny one at that... There was no mental or physical harm intended, it was done out of humor... It reminds me of the type of pranks I'd pull on my friends... You know... back to the shaving cream in their hands while a friend is sleeping pranks... Good times I tell ya.

I applaud the prank and if at least, it provided your sisters with something you can all laugh, joke and tell stories about in the future..

My 2 cents
-Matt

Okay James, you are probably going to bump me off this thread or delete my reply . But hazing is hazing ! I do realize that the sorority in question is not affliated with NPC, but even by university standards that practical joke can be considered hazing. I'm not trying to bash the sorority, but eventhough the pledges did fill out a medical form sometimes heart conditions can go unnoticed and undiagnosed. So eventhough her medical form stated that a pledga had no medical conditions that she knew of, the pledge still could of had a heart conditon and not even known about it . I have read about so many athletes that have died due to an unknown heart condition. Yes, she stated that the parents were unconcerned with the prank and wanted to see pictures of the event and it was a good thing that nothing serious happened, but remember the parents would have sued the sorority and those members would have been subject to criminal charges.

Hey I'm all for a little fun when it comes to pledges. We do our own little event that they think is activation and this year because of more stringent NPC and Greek life rules we might not be able to do them. But we would never pull a prank like that on our pledges.

And don't take this the wrong way, but I guess when your a local you can make your own rules and not worry about nationals.

I don't agree with the "what if Suzy Pledge had a serious medical problem and didn't know it" argument. If you follow that line of reasoning, everyone should treat themselves and everyone else as though they were made out of glass, and never do anything unduly exciting or strenuous, just in case you have a heart condition.
Should all atheletes stop playing sports, just on the change that they might have a heart problem, then? No, because chances are that they actually don't.
What if during Greek Sing your chapter had your pledges up there with the sisters doing the song-and-dance thing, and one of the pledges had an unknown condition and died? Would that be hazing? NO!!! Just a tragic accident.
My PSP chapter has our pledges do a mini scavenger hunt. If I had tripped, fallen, and twisted my ankle during that, would you call that "injuries due to hazing"? I certainly hope not! I would call that "Erin being clumsy".
I guess my point is that you can't go through everything saying "what if" about everything like that. If you did, would it be OK to take your chapter (pledges and all) to Six Flags for the day? "What if" one of them had a heart problem and didn't know it? Better not take them! If everyone followed through with that, no one would do anything for fear of the "what-if"s, and it would be a pretty boring life. People should do their fun activities without having to worry about random "what if"s that are out of their control.

FIPG Fraternal Insurance Purchasing Group

Yep, a lot of stuff nowdays is considered hazing. I think on some things (like a chapter wide scavenger hunt), I would look at the intent of the activity before I would call it hazing...but they didn't ask me when they made up the rules/laws/etc. (Don't get me wrong...if one of my chapters had a wonderful idea with no intent to actually haze anyone, but it appears as hazing, I would put my foot down and make sure it doesn't happen.)

Some people get hurt doing harmless things just because of their own clumsiness...and still sue. If I bust my butt in the parking lot of Kroger because I tripped over a buggy, what the hell do I have to sue about? I should sue myself!

All in all, I don't like all of the litigation happy people. Stuff happens in life....we gotta deal with it.

PsychTau

I'm not gonna cry hazing with this... but I just thought it was a bad idea.

i mean our new girls get stressed and all, but so does everyone else in the house. sometimes moreso. (our social chair was freaking out not too long ago.) When Kayla mentioned her NMs were stressed out, maybe it was from outside sources. School, boys, parents, money, whatever. And then to have to go to meetings and social events on top of that... hell i would be stressed.
Honestly, the way our program works is that while everyone is a sister regardless of "status" the new members run like a small committee within the house. They plan events like the rest of us do, participate in everything we do, help fundraise, etc. And they have tests and other requirements to complete as well. This prepares them for taking on future positions in the house and when their class becomes the majority on exec board, they know how each one of them works.

I think I just completely hijacked there... but point is, stress occurs regardless if you're a nm or an active alumnae. I may not agree with how this stress was released/relieved though.

We've taken the new girls TPing... as a house, not just their class. If you want a practical joke, this seems to be the big one around our town. That and stealing composites... which I don't understand but oh well.

I'm pretty sure ALL NPC groups have a rule about not telling when initiation is... and how long the process can be.
I know most of the locals at my school dont' tell.. ( I pledged one for a while) but I'd bet my bottm dollar that most NPC groups state that they are supposed to tell the date. We tell our new ladies the day they get their bids and their goodies and binder and reflections manual... the calendar is right in their binder with initiation date right on there. I'm pretty sure by strictest standards this incident is considered hazing... but really I think the def. of hazing has gotten *kinda* out of control.. but we've had that discussion before... and I really don't want to start the debate again. ;)

You're right, most, if not all, of the NPC groups do have a rule about telling NM's when initiation is, it's just that I'm sure we all know from experience that people don't always follow all the rules that are in place. Especially if your nationals advisor isn't strict or doesn't pay much attention to your chapter.

hazing...
 

I think that the practical joke was hillarious.... and if I had been in that pledge class, I would have loved it. Hazing is that hushed rumor that floats around campuses.... and when one incident occurs, all Greeks suffer.... but I think that more and more the line is being pushed to the point where having a sense of humor is bordering on the new definitions of hazing. If you had done this with some friends who were not Greek.... it wouldnt be an issue... it would be a great joke.... but the moment you do it with members or new members, the hazing flags go up. I think hazing sucks..... and you should never join an organization that hazes.... but you have to have a sense of humor too....

ok. there's absolutely no need to look up state hazing laws. geez.

while i don't think this was the worst thing anyone could do to anyone else, it was in poor taste. why is pledging so stressful for the women? that's the part i don't understand. what are you making them do that they are stressed out?

i think bringing possible heart problems into this is quite ridiculous as well.

but....with the way the greek system is scrutinized nowadays, any events like this make us all look bad

It's OK, guys! I'm glad that I now know the hazing laws from a variety of states, but it's not that big a deal. Would I have been bothered if my new member educator had done something like this to my pledge class? Well, I would've been pissed, but after a few years (once I got over it) I'd probably think it was funny. I think it's been reasonably proven that such a prank would be considered hazing for a National organization--I know it would be, because we had to stop innocent Big/Little scavenger hunts--but Kayla doesn't belong to a National sorority. I know, I know, we're held accountable for what all Greeks do, but really...one incident at one small college isn't going to make that much difference. Just my opinion. :p

PS. Yes, we were told the date of our initiation very soon after pledging. It gave us something to look forward to!

wow, im happy im not in your sorority

And I thank God every day for not giving ME brothers who go and tell random people to go fucking kill themselves.

:) ASSHOLE.

Re: hazing...
 

"Sense of humor" is a relative concept. As adults, we need to always keep that in mind.