((((hugs to all))))

therapy is SOOOO crucial, even if you don't speak, and just lay on the couch and catch a few zzzs (like me), having that space that you can call yours and feel comfortable enough to be totally honest and speak about what's going helps soo much

((((hugs to all))))

I'm glad that this thread is up. I was diagnosed with PTSD and severe depression last year, and it's a very difficult topic to discuss with people who just don't know or can't relate. I'm happy to know that I'm not alone and maybe we can get through this together.

yes, therapy is essential in combination with the meds. I have been anti-depressant med free for over ten years (after being on them for nearly ten years,) but I still make lay on that couch when needed.

I am in awe of you ladies. Thank you for sharing your stories. I am in complete admiration of your strength and courage.

When you are able to see clients, I will come see you! :)

I think there is silence because of "stigma" attached... When you tell folks, they can turn tables on you and throw it back up in your face. It has happened a dozen or so times in my life alone. That is why I do not talk to people about when I see similarities with my situation in others...

That happens a lot. For example, I have an acquaintance who shared her story with people she thought she could trust. When something seemingly unrelated happened, she was told "weren't you on antidepressants? That explains why you can't keep a man" by someone who was being messy. :rolleyes:

Also, many people don't know much about these conditions so they say things like what I mentioned earlier "just pray about it" when they are told. That can be interpreted as rather dismissive.

And you will get the Sistagurl hook up, especially if you can connect me with some pharmaceutical companies.. lol.. :)

It just scares me to think of how many of us (women, in general) are suffering NEEDLESSLY because we are SO worried about how other people will perceive us if they knew our secret. If those people look at you differently, then they weren't your friend to begin with.

Wow. Just. Wow.

Darling1, I remember those convos as well. ;)

I have to wonder if a lot of women don't say anything or seek help because they aren't aware that something is wrong. They think they're just "tired" all the time. Or being scatterbrained. It's almost as if you have to be suicidal to even consider having a mental health issue. Which my ex-boyfriend did mention to me once. I was trying to talk to him about how I felt and how it affected our relationship and he said, "I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like you're about to slit your wrists." I mean, dang, does it have to get to that point?

I can't expect everyone to understand cuz I don't understand all of it all the time. But I'm at least open-minded and willing to educate myself on it. Who knew I'd be all up in the DSM-IV, lol. But I guess I have to because I'm not trusting enough to trust what the therapist says. I need to research and see if she's right, lol. Especially when meds become involved. I need to be informed.

Ms Nikki by the time you are ready to see clients, I think the pharmas will know who are are already... :)

@bolded: Aside from sounding like my grandma and mom, there are "cultural" or "heritage" reasons why women feel that way. ;) When I say culture, I mean geography... IMHO, I do get beyond how people perceive me, somedays. Call it life experiences and getting older. Yet, our culture is one that relies on social nature for most people. It gives credence to our choices, it assists us in pursuing higher goals, then when we have tired from that realm, we move somewhere else hopefully beyond...

I don't know if women hide necessarily, I think they shutdown to less than expected. I think the research shows that men are more prone to actually go along "the act"... However, I do think women are beginning to catch up.

oh the stigma
 

the stigma and just general ignorance is why many communities keep mental illness behind closed doors. personally, i have had convos with my mother that have made me wonder why i opened up at all. recently, she called me about something and i was in the middle of dressing my child for school. i was irritated and a bit aloof--i simply wasnt trying to have a convo with her at that time. she called my husband later that day and in the course of the discussion asked if i were on my meds. i was so irritated and it hurt for a few reasons. the one thing i realized is that i shouldnt be upset. she is not in HER right mind and i have done alot of work to pull myself out of the depths of ptsd, bipolar, mpd, depression hole.

i feel that the crux of why many of us feel sometimes stuck in our respective illnesses is because we struggle to regain the control that was taken from us. one of the main reasons why i share my story is because it gives me back a bit of that control that i lost so many years ago. if people want to judge me because of my illness, i just shrug my shoulders--most of the time :). i am not my illness nor am i my experiences.

it is so important to be an informed consumer. do as much research as you possibly can. it was so frustrating at the beginning stages, 10 yrs back when i was struggling to find out what was wrong with me and then to find the right cocktail of medication that brought some normalcy to my life. having a supportive husband and i good therapist was very key.

I know how hard it is to FEEL like I am being heard and understood. Sometimes it is our tactics we are using. We feel strongly that what we are doing is the right course of action, when really it is too much or too little of those neurotransmitters and vitamins coursing through our brains that cause hasty generalizations and what might be considered irrational conclusions. It seems one practically actually has to get to the point of jumping to feel like they are being heard and understood. Most folks need validation and reflectiveness with assertive or less "accusations".

All this to say sometimes for some people it does have to get to that point...

Your ex invalidated your feelings... Feelings do not know the difference between right and wrong--they just feel. To master them, one has to reach a place of balance and then respond, it is usually through breath and the conduit of water.


When incidents or episodes happen to me, I cannot "place" me anymore--where is my "soul" or "essence" when it all happened. It used to be over there removed, but now, I am all up into the mix, right there when it happens--sometimes causing it!!! :eek:

And I, too have heavily educated myself. My path is different, I pursued an alternative medicine, except when one of the symptoms of Bipolar is extreme religiousity... So, I have to slow myself down and become balanced. I can do that now than when I was a kid... However, I still connect with my core of "therapi"--in fact, I just had to fire one of them because what she was asking me to do was fight for a cause I no longer believed in and it was fcuking with me... I chose not to suffer that battle and move on... Do I wonder "what ifs" or hayle yes... But, that's when I start counting simple blessings, like air... When it is overwhelming, that is when I place a call--normally when the "bad tapes" start reeling in my head... My core therapi group is on it, check my blood, talk to me, make sure nothing is off and send me on my way...

Overtime, it is okay and there aren't that many rollercoaster rides as their use to be. But, it is far from perfect.

For the Silent Observers
 

i jus thought i would post this as an option. this is a program that i found through my church and it has been beneficial so far. it is a safe and non-judgemental environment.



http://www.saddlebackchurch.com/celebraterecovery/

Looks awesome!!! How many people attend each of those sessions? How long have you all been doing these groups? Was it easy to set up in the beginning? I ask because I have not seen a lot of that up where I live and I was wondering why it has not been done.

I am sure the churches up here "in the community" have substance abuse groups, but they don't have co-dependent groups, etc.

My church started a health care ministry about 2 years ago. We are just now beginning to expand into mental health. :)

I am an informed consumer. I read about the medicine, its generic form (I *heart wal mart for its $4 prescriptions), typical dosage, possible side effects, when to stop taking it, etc.

My question is are the churches prostylizing in these groups?

For my church, no. This is for people who just want to learn about getting and staying healthier. If you choose to come to services, great, but we don't require anyone to do so.

Darling1,

My church has a similiar program. We also offer counseling, addiction recovery, and other mental health services as well (all from a Christian POV). I'm glad to see other churches address these issues too.

Some are.

i can only speak for my church
 

i believe the general set-up is like this.

the evening is established like a normal church service.

1. fellowship/dinner
2. praise and worship
3. reciting of 12 steps to recovery
4. teaching or testimony
5. serenity prayer reading

if you are a first time guest you attend a 1:1 session with a small group leader. the next time you come, regardless of when that is, you can participate in a 1-2-3 discussion. men and women are separated. in these discussions, you talk about issues surrounding denial, powerlessness and hope. these are all acrostics that are all associated with specific issues and scripture reading. you then move to an open share format. during the weeks where there is a teaching, the open share groups discuss a question associated with the teaching. if you are ready, you can then move into a 12-step recovery group and that process lasts 1 year to 18 months.

all of this is voluntary and based upon your comfort level. the snall group leader is charged with ensuring that what is discussed in the room STAYS IN THE ROOM. cross talking isnt allowed, you cant even pass someone a tissue. the point here is that as this is a GOD-CENTERED process, the holy spirit must be allowed to come in and do the work to help you heal.

on average there may be 20-30 people total; maybe 3- 10 people in a small group, depending on circumstance. the pastors here are adamant about ensuring the sanctity of the process, so much that one evening one of the pastors came in and reminded our group leaders that they will be pulled from their groups if they abuse the rules.

i've been a part of this process for about 6 months now. it has not been easy. the first day i came and just listened. i didnt come back for several months, mainly because of hubby's schedule. but i put my foot down and since there was child care, it made it alot easier. at one point i was so angry. there were people there who were so joyful--drug addicts, folks with hiv, procrastinators, folks dealing with abuse. i could not understand and was angry that i havent had that joy.

i think that because the pastors were so committed to this program and to serving not just the church community but the OUTSIDE community, it was not hard at all. all you need is the space and willing hands.

we are a model for many celebrate recovery groups and i feel that at some point ours will become the standard. what is also a factor i think is the 'doctrine' that we follow. i attend a church of god and we have a wholistic approach to teaching, something that i personally have not seen. i have attended, episcopalian, ame, united methodist, baptist and cogic churches. my church models itself after rick warren's purpose driven life.

part of why it may not have been done could be based upon the beliefs of other denominations.

this probably more than you wanted to know..lol but i have been blessed by my church and this ministry. it has given me something to look forward to and has added a new dimension as i rediscover ways to maintain my mental health. ive been back on meds for a month now and i have come to reailze that with having children, i have neglected myself and the systems that were in place prior to me becoming a mom, do not work anymore. i have to create new sytems and really start looking to address the root of my stuff. if i profess to be a christian and if i am teaching my children to be good christians, my husband and i have to set the example. right now this is the best way i know.

fantastic
 

one the biggest comments made is that "we are not here to save you". the celebrate recovery ministry just provides you with the tools, the support and unconditional love to help you through. i already have 1 accountability partner and i am hoping to gain more.

I don't mind the Health Ministries, because everyone should have access to qualified accurate healthcare. My problem is the churches in my area are not reaching out to those who need it the most because the people are deemed "undesirable"--i.e. homeless, drug abusers, sexual (whatevers), etc. Now, while some folks need prayer, they also need quality healthcare both physical and mental. But since both take time to heal and only Jesus Christ is known to heal in miracles, the poor people just cannot rationalize the time time it takes... If anything, we in the healing business should understand "time", but patient is a different matter...

How does your church deal with it? Do you all have revolving doors? Just asking?

We've just now started being more active in our immediate community. We TRY to get our members to take their own health seriously and to get members to share their health stories (prostate cancer, breast cancer, diabetes, HBP, etc). I cant say that we actively seek out "undesirables" but I am certain that we wouldn't not help someone because they chose not to be active in our church.

PM me, I have a way that works very effectively in my city... And I am about to write it up for Public Health Community Health study... I actually am collaborating with a few MPH's as well as healthcare professionals.

I don't know if "undesirable" is the correct word, but, I mean, how do you all deal with the fact about HIV and you know someone is in a "discordant relationship" (that's what the official language is)?

what we do....
 

our doors are open to EVERYONE. in my new member class, the majority of the members said that they attend my church for at least a year or more prior to joining. they were involved in ministries and other activities. what i notice is the norm for the celebrate recovery program is that everyone gets a listing of other CR programs in the area. so, on days that you need additional support or if your church isnt having CR that night, you have other options. from my best guess, half of the people who attend CR at my church are not members.

we have also rented out an apartment in one of the complexes across the street from us and that is where we have our clothes closet.

personally, most health ministries dont do enough. they usually do the little seminar here or there or are run byt some older members who can only do so much. maybe an occassional fundraising activity or do some sort of awareness campaign.

i agree with you, the bottom line is that more needs to be done especially for those who are lacking in affordable care and access to resources.

Well, with what I have observed in my last 3 years of running a Health Forum is that folks do not talk to each other. They fail to communicate. I think it has something to do with "Health Literacy". The physician or healthcare provider spouts off what the problem could be, the patient thinks they understand, but they do not, and is sent home, and the problem gets worse... One my sorors that has type 2 on insulin is dealing with that... The issue is lack of aggressiveness when the patient complains... You don't want to be surpass the patient's rights, nor do you want to do expensive tests that wind up as nothing, at the same time, you don't want to see gross pathological lesions because that means it is almost too late to treat...

Many patients get ER treatment for medical treatment, they are not seeing their primary care providers on a consistent basis.

The same is true with mental health care. Through ALL my experience, I cannot WAIT till I feel like "jumping of a bridge" to think now I need help... When the first inkling of "losing my mind" occurs or when the "bad tapes" play in my head, I am making phone calls... Even if it is a false feeling--I would rather see someone, professional, than to have it get to that point on the I-5 freeway... Because, by that time, the police are involved and they stick into psych ward for a 24-48 hour eval, with people that actually DO bash their bloodied heads against the wall...

So, I think from what I've read, were churches can really be involved is to lay the groundwork for Spiritual renewal, buttressing up that foundation, with the groups and the trained professionals--i.e. ministers have to have some level of mental health care training for their divinity degrees--I think it is like 400 hours...

I am reading this thread for the first time and a lot of what I am reading is shaking me up....especially a lot of Soror Ideal08's commentary about 'isolating'. I was diagnosed in '99 with severe clinical depression and acute panic disorder that became finally evident (after having several episodes of crying all the way to work and back home in my car, but putting on the lovely mask at work and at home for all to enjoy) when I woke up one morning and couldn't -physically couldn't- get dressed for work. I was off work for a year after that...meds and therapy and total, black hole, blinds-drawn, self-imposed isolation. ....couldn't (not wouldn't, contrary to popular belief!) answer the phone, couldn't answer the door, couldn't open mail, stopped seeing everybody, stopped going to church where I was a music leader, etc. Noone understood and I couldn't explain, so I was deemed as 'trippin', 'needing to pray more', 'selfish (??!!)', and 'needing to snap out of it'.

I moved out of state for several years about 2 years after the diagnosis to a place where I had no friends or family, just career ... brilliant career, but just career. (I am just now 'getting' that I was probably doing the supreme isolation act with that move) I have sinced returned 'home' after being gone 7 years (number of completion ;)) -- healthy, happy-ish, and eager to re-enter my life that's been on-hold lo' these past 7 years.... bought my house, cautiously re-connecting with friends/family, but feeling the need to isolate again a lot. Now that I'm back in the mix, so to speak, I am a bit overwhelmed with everyone's needs and expectations of me....which are probably 'normal', like to answer the phone, pick up my messages, call them back, come over, come over, come over and which should make me feel blessed that folk still wanna be bothered with me :o.... but it feels like so much I can't stand it.

One thing I have determined is that I am keeping it real henceforth. The mask is gone forever and I am living authentically, despite people's judgments, and hopefully they will understand..... like when my mom (who knows / didn't quite accept my earlier diagnosis, tho' she has a long history of depression -- undiagnosed, though) asked why I disappeared for three days recently and wouldn't call her back or answer my phone, I said 'I just couldn't bear to .... it was too much' ... she said 'you can't just pick up the phone .... was that too hard?...to which I answered 'Yes.' It was hard to be that straight, 'cuz I don't do *vulnerable*, but it sure felt good telling it like it was. For 2008, I'm keeping it real and KIM.

Sorry for my stream-of-consciousness rant, but this strikes a chord with me, especially now that I'm in a tricky transitional stage right now of re-connecting....and Lord knows, we strong black women don't discuss this kinda stuff much :rolleyes:. I appreciate this forum.

Much love and peace to all --

(((PrettyInPink777)))

Just keep talking, ladies. We ARENT alone and we DO need to talk about this stuff, to each other and to professionals.

This is a wonderful thread. ((((((((((((ladies in thread))))))))))))). Will post later. lol

I have so much to say, but I have to (1) take a nap and (2) get my thoughts together. But, Soror, we are >HERE<, believe me!!!! It's nice to hear from another 'isolator' b/c it is truly something folks don't (or can't?) understand.

(((((Soror PrettyInPink777)))))

BBL...

WOW....just wow to this thread...I'm on here like everyday so I don't know how I missed this......first I commend everyone here for their strength in sharing...you all have probably helped someone who hasn't gained the courage to share their stories yet...I've mentioned before that I work in mental health as a BAQP, MHQP, DDQP, and a whole bunch of other alphabet that all basically mean mental health case manager...I came into this field by accident but I fell in love with it because I realized how many people really have issues stemming from mental health...it was supposed to be just a filler job until I ready for medical school but now I have changed my entire career path in order to continue to serve in this field...BUT thats not the story...after a while of trying to figure out why I was so drawn to helping my consumers I realized that I saw myself in many of them...since I was a teenager I would go through bouts of defiance and anger....getting into trouble, fighting in school....then I would just want to be left alone and not deal with people for days at a time....I had been called mean, moody, and just bad for so long that I didn't know that there was a REAL reason for my behavior...although my diagnosis isn't severe, I found comfort in being able to place a name on something that had plagued me for years, and that had caused me to make many mistakes and bad decisions in the past...so now I'm focusing my studies on comprehensive mental health, my agency/practice will serve the total need of the consumer... physical and mental health....I want to focus on the African-American community and raise the awareness of the existence and frequency of mental heath disorders within it......

((((((((((((((((sorors))))))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((sistagreeks))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((GC others!)))))))))))))))))

:D

Do you all think that many AA women aren't diagnosed for depression because we are so used to doing it all anyway? Do you think we go to God, or other spiritual methods instead of seeing a physician?

BTW: I think I have suffered from depression for years but because of the fact that I have to keep it together for my family, it has manifested to other symptoms; ie. fatigue, weight gain, headaches...

thank you so much for sharing your story...
 

((((((((((((((((((((((((prettyinpink)))))))))))))) )))))))));)

I dont know if this information is useful or relevant to you but it may help someone. About 3 years ago i was dianose with depression. I would cry for no reason and couldnt stop. My doctor prescribed paxcil. I was on it for about 6 months total. And when I saw no difference, she increased the dosage. Still no change, increased the dosage. Still no change so she referred me to some other doctor who prescribed different medicine in addition to the one she was giving me. What wound up happening was where I would have crying spells and had difficulty getting out of bed that grew to full blown anxiety attacks until i passed out along with general anxiety. One of the side effects of the medicine was increased anxiety. the side effect of the medicine was much much much worse than my initial problem.

I implore people to do research and trust their 'first mind' persuing medical remedies.


This thread has been quite painful to read but i am determined to finish it. Still not ready...

Depression as a mental illness correlates with risk of type 2 diabetes. Since numerous AA generally suffer from type 2 when they get older, it does not seem inconceivable to me from my point of view.

The way mental health is treated is separate from environmental conditions vs. physical ones. Environment or nuture may play a HUGE role on mental health outcomes. But that does not necessarily translate into the acute physical outcomes, such as commiting a violent act, never leaving the house, isolating, crying spells for days in and out...

If left untreated, depression can and will cause secondary symptoms, like fatigue, weight gain and headaches...

Somewhere on GC, I posted the actual medical differentials of depression from MD Consult... Depression biologically is dysregulation of serotonin and norepinephrine release and reuptake in most cases.

Lemme help you a bit: When did you have crying spells? Did it follow your menstrural cycle? What about the periods you did not have spells? How was your moods then?

Draw out your issues for a month (meanwhile see your people) so that your healthcare providers can "track" it. The reason why that works is frequency and fluctuation. When you are in crisis, they stabilize the problem, then send you on your way to go figure... I KNOW--BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!!!

To have optimal care, you need to either fire your therapist and get one you can work with. In fact you need to interview them to see what their qualifications are and how to help you... I know my current therapist's education, clinical experiences and I pretty much asked her directly what my current issues are. For the times I have seen her, she has already assisted me tremendously... The one before her, I fired... And my insurance is a co-op HMO...

This thread has been very moving and painful.

I definately believe that AA's need to get therapy to help us deal with our issues. But I have a question. I realize that it could be me....but has anyone ever been in therapy and it not help but make you more deperessed? Thats what happened to me. I had tried two other therapists and one needed her own therapist and the other struck me as untrustworthy. I dumped them both after the first session. The last one seems really nice and I thought i was doing really well with her. But then, 3 months later, I felt more depressed than I was before i started seeing her because we were bring up old issues that i was trying to put behind me. And we weren't coming to any real resolution. I dropped her too.
Again....it could be me:D

See....that was what i thought, that it was cyclical. A certain time before my cycle I would be a pure fool. It explained why the meds didnt work. But they did those tests and came back negative. Also once i started to tell doctors the types of abuse i'd survived they deduced i was depressed. I may have been. I still may be. I dont know. I just deal with it now. I guess.

This is hard:(

Yes... Since I moved to my current location. It made me not want to work with them. Then I got a therapist who I started having to tell them my agenda of what I wanted to work on for an hour...

This is just my suggestion and not my professional opinion: You need to read more about your conditions and "group" may be a viable option for you. A nice 12 step program or there is another one. 1-on-1 might not work well for you because you might have some inhibitions about sharing your issues with close quarters...

The other issue is "mindfulness seminars" or meditation practice. More HMO's are "dallying" with giving these courses--they do cost, but might be worth it for you.

I would start with Dr. David Burns' books. There are good Christian books, like "Purpose Filled Life" and Dr. Gary Chapman. If you don't like those, I would then try Hayhouse books - that woman, Louise Hay--WOW!!!


Do you have it written down somewhere that a trained psychiatrist can easily review to assist you... Make them make copies of your complaints and your monthly tracker and ask them how are they going to address this for you. They pretty much give you compliance to your wishes...

Just because you are an abuse survivor does not necessarily say you have depression... There are roughly 10 symptoms and 6 of them must be fulfilled. It is generally the case for abuse survivors, which makes the group options probably very good for you, now. But, only you and your healthcare providers can assist you through this problem...

I would "visit" as many groups as I was willing to do so and find one that makes you feel comfortable. You are not required to say anything other than your name (which you can make up) and "I am just here learning about XYZ".

But the way to combat those "negative voices" or "bad tapes" is through talk therapy. Not sure why it works, but it does...

The last thing I suggest when you feel up to it, take a yoga class... You must find your center and balance...