Yet, don't we all remember the little boy who's mother died trying to make their way from Cuba? Now THAT's a case where my heart cries out for us to save him. Yet, Janet Reno sent in ARMED MILITIA to tear him from his family and send him back home to Castro. It was a very sad story.:(

Reno looks hideous too. I think that if she looked beautiful every guy in the country would have supported that action but since she looks like a linebacker, I doubt even Clinton would support her.

Fast Food Nation is a silly book written by a silly washed up man. Regardless, the issue of taxation isn't what most people care about. It's the fact that these people make you uncomfortable. They sit next to you and make you uncomfortable. They play their music and it makes you uncomfortable.

Here's the catch 22: You don't want to have to spend money on their education and health costs but then again you don't want to have to spend money patrolling the streets when they're not in school.

-Rudey
--I think that anyone that sits to me and wears uncomfortable fabrics just makes me uncomfortable.

Bush plan grants rights to illegal workers
 

Bush plan grants rights to illegal workers
Elisabeth Bumiller, New York Times


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- President Bush will announce a sweeping expansion of the nation's immigration laws today that could give legal status to millions of undocumented workers in the United States, senior administration officials said Tuesday.

Bush will ask Congress to approve changes to immigration policy, arguing that they would make the country safer by giving officials a better idea of who is crossing the border, bolster the economy by fulfilling employers' needs and protect illegal workers' rights.

Bush's proposal effectively amounts to an amnesty program for illegal immigrants with jobs in the United States.

Under his plan, an undocumented worker could apply for temporary worker status in the United States for an unspecified number of years, with all the employee benefits, such as minimum wage and due process, accorded to those legally employed.

Workers who are approved would be permitted to travel freely between the United States and their home countries, the officials said, and would also be permitted to apply for a green card granting permanent residency in the United States.

Tim Counts, Minnesota's Department of Homeland Security spokesman, said Tuesday that his office has not received any information about the president's proposal on the local level and could not comment specifically on it.

More green cards

Administration officials said Bush would also propose increasing the number of green cards issued each year, which is now about 140,000.

In a nod to conservatives who oppose any reward to those who enter the United States illegally, Bush is including in his plan incentives -- such as the promise of retirement benefits and the ability to open tax savings accounts -- to entice the workers to return to their home countries.

Under Bush's proposals, workers in other countries could also apply for guest worker status in the United States, provided there was no American to take the job.

Bush also is expected to broadly discuss giving workers from some countries expanded access to Social Security benefits, sources familiar with the plan said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Bush's proposal, one administration official said, would "match willing workers with willing employers" and "promote compassion" by fixing what one called "a broken system."

Helping Hispanics

The president's proposals were designed to appeal to Hispanic groups, a critical constituency that the White House has targeted as Bush seeks re-election this year. The proposals will also be embraced by President Vicente Fox of Mexico, who has been lobbying for them for the past three years.

Bush is to meet with Fox at an economic summit next week in Monterrey, Mexico, where immigration will be a significant part of the agenda and Bush's proposals are likely to become a major focus.

But Bush's plans are likely face a tough fight in Congress, where conservative Republicans have said they consider programs like the one the president is proposing nothing more than amnesty for people who have broken the law.

Bush's proposal is closely modeled on legislation introduced last summer by Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Rep. Jim Kolbe and Rep. Jeff Flake, also Arizona Republicans.

The issue of undocumented workers is a major issue in the state.

"We are ecstatic that they are addressing this," Flake said. "We've maintained all along that you have to deal with both sides of the issue -- those who want to come to the country and those who are here now. We're very happy to see a realistic approach. We deal with it daily, and we have to have a rational policy.'

Immigrant advocacy groups say the president's proposal, known as a "temporary worker program" and outlined by senior administration officials Tuesday night, falls short of comprehensive reform. On the other hand, groups wanting to curb immigration say the president's proposal for a three-year temporary worker plan, rewards foreign workers who broke the law when they entered the United States.

"It's a two-step amnesty," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates strict immigration rules.

"It's not what the folks on the left want, which is a quick green card, but it is an amnesty nonetheless," he said. "It legalizes illegal immigrants and is going to increase the number of green cards so that people will be able to move through the system faster."

"Extremely disappointing," said Cecilia Munoz, vice president for policy at the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic immigrant advocacy group.

"It's a serious backtracking to where the president was two years ago when the administration was prepared to provide some kind of path to legal status," she said. "They're proposing to invite people to be guest workers without providing any meaningful opportunity to remain in the United States to become legal permanent residents. It appears to be all about rewarding employers who have been hiring undocumented immigrants while offering almost nothing to the workers themselves."

Jennifer Prestholdt, deputy director of Minnesota Advocates for Human Rights, said Tuesday she has guarded optimism about Bush's proposal.

"Any kind of serious and comprehensive reform of our immigration policy would be welcomed," she said. "As long as it recognizes that families need to be reunited and it rewards those who have been contributing to our country and their rights."

"It might just be election-year posturing" on Bush's behalf, Prestholdt said.

Staff writer Terry Collins and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

I'm unsure how I feel about this.
Awarding temporary status will probably make many illegals documented, which is more than we have now. We'll always have illegals here, if we can at least get them written down and tracked, well that's a step in the right direction.

I think the idea of minimum wage and other "benefits" awarded to u.s. citizens in an effort to entice them to return to their home countries is bullshit, though...as previously stated in this thread, the majority of illegals don't want to stay here permanently. They're already planning on going back, why do we need to give them further incentive?? I'm sorry but if we're going to give ANY rights/freedoms to illegals, English classes MUST be a priority. Yes, they do the jobs no one else will do....but how in the hell are you going to drive a car when you can't read the f**** road signs??? I'm sorry but speaking English is a HUGE issue w/me.

Why? You work at Value City!

-Rudey

OMG I hate you.









Marshall Fields is a very classy establishment.






And hey, just because they set up a computer with a lil AOL at the shelter, does NOT make you some big time financial guy!!!
--Jules


Shouldn't you be lining up for dinner right about now?

No dinner is in an hour Jules!

-Rudey
--By dinner I mean I'm selling my blood and eating the cookies and OJ they give after.

LMAO ok now I love you again. Who am I kidding- posting in this forum is just my attempt at backing up my ACT scores :rolleyes:

I think the new plan is ridiculous, as far as giving the illegal immigrants the GREEN CARD. WTF?! Do you know how hard it is for the LEGAL immigrants to obtain the Green Card? So the plan is encouraging all legal immigrants to become illegal immigrants in order to get the green card ...

SEND ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANS HOME!

Along with those who can't spell!

Sorry....too tempting....


I won't post my opinion because I am way too biased.

LOL .. .here's the "T"

Hey .. I spelled it right the first time, the last one was an accident

Nope, it's too late...I've already given the Migra your name and address....(and they sent their former Blockbuster employees, expect a knock on your door in 3.5 minutes).

HA! and I am hiding now ... :D

I have said on numerous occasions that the U.S needs to CLOSE the borders all together. The reason that internationals and Mexicans especially, are trying to come over here is because their own countries are less than "appealing". If we MAKE them stay in their own contries, they will build up their economies, healthcare, education etc. Look at how many international students come to the U.S and are the best and brightest from their country, end up getting a great job offer and a company sponsored visa. Now imagine how much good that student could have done if they stayed in their own country. Of course your home country is going to go to hell in a handbasket if all of the educated and wealthy nationals are in the U.S.

I have mixed feelings about the illegal immigration thing. I think of it this way, we were all immigrants at one point or another (unless you are a native to this land). I think each person's situation is different. Most people leave their countries because of war, poverty, governments, etc.. I don't think you can easy just ship these people out like we don't care. After all, america is supposedly the land of the free.

If they legalize them, do they have to pay back taxes or at the very least, current taxes?

America is the land of the free and you don't understand what that statement means I guess so you made no sense.

-Rudey

Rudey,

I have a good excuse. I am not american . In any case, How don't I not understand?

:cool:

The land of the free (handouts) is what it's becoming.

I have no problem with someone that wants to immigrate. I know the stories of most of my ancestors that came accross the ocean. Most involve stopping at places like Ellis Island. All followed whatever the normal immigration rules were at the time.

Now it is a little tougher to get in to the US legally. I have no problem with that. If you want to go try and be a citizen of any first world country, there are going to be some hurdles.

I'm 100% in favor of deporting illegal aliens that do not pay taxes and use government services. However, if they are just here to earn a living and support their family back home, I think there should be a visa for that. Hell.. provide them transportation in to the US! How many people actually born in the US do those kinds of jobs anyhow?

It's a land of the free in that there are so many freedoms here. The US, like any country, only has the interest of its citizens in mind. It is not in our interest to be giving handouts to people. Also many immigrants don't pay taxes which is what bothers me. It's not the people doing cheap labor and get paid under the table but the ones running stores that bring in 1 million in pure cash and still get financial aid for their children in college.

-Rudey

Ktsnake, the comment about america being the land of the free was a general comment.

I don't think that people should get a free ride at all. Of course, there would have to be some price to pay, taxes being one of them. But like I said, everyone's situation is different.

BTW, it's not easy trying to get a working visa in the states.

Obviously I am not talking about people making millions of dollars as illegal immigrants. Rather, I was reffering to the ones who come from war-torn countries, or countries with economical difficulties.

I think the working visa is one of the things Bush has recently put on the table for consideration. They are planning on making it easier for immigrants to get these types of jobs without federal interferance. The illegals are probably against this since it will force them to have to owe taxes. Will they pay? Probably not.

That's not neccessarly true. It's extremely easy for certain sectors of the job market (eg high-tech). All you need is a job in the US, and you'll get the visa.

At least, that's how it is here at UW.

Uhm most of the immigrants here are from countries like that otherwise they wouldn't up and come.

-Rudey

I just wrote my Congressman a letter about this issue today. I, for one, am sick of politicians bowing to special interest groups. If the President thinks that his immigration reform plan is so great, then I invite him to visit my neighborhood. It used to be a nice, well-kept, middle-class area until a few years ago when the booming construction in our county brought an influx of illegal aliens to the area.

The thing that has been occuring in our neighborhood over the past couple of years is this: a legal immigrant will buy a house and then send word to all of his/her family members in Mexico that it's safe to come over. Suddenly, a single-family home is invaded by 20 illegal immigrants and the house quickly gets run down because it wasn't intended to handle that kind of traffic.

Every day I pass houses that are poorly maintained. A duct-taped pillow covers a broken window in front of a house that is filled with numerous illegal aliens. I have to swerve around 12 cars and trucks that are parked on both sides of the road because the driveway is full -- and I know full well that the majority of the people driving those cars don't have licenses or insurance coverage.

Long-term residents of our neighborhood are moving out. Many of them haven't been able to sell their homes because they are too close to the eyesores that are the illegals' homes. So, instead, they are renting them out. Guess who's moving in? Yep, more illegals. It's a vicious cycle.

When I go shopping, I feel as if I'm in another country. To find someone who speaks English is a rarity. As an American citizen, I'm actually in the minority when I go to the mall nearest my home.

A friend who teaches in the local middle school is transferring to a new district next year because he's tired of trying to teach lessons to illegal kids who don't know -- and don't care to learn -- the language, and dealing with their illegal parents who complain that school information is not sent home in Spanish. One actually had the audacity to complain about the fact that our state doesn't offer college scholarships to illegal aliens!!

The sense of entitlement that I have witnessed is unbelievable. These people think that, just because they were able to sneak across a border, they should automatically be granted all the rights and privileges of a legal American citizen.

Meanwhile, we have Hungarian friends who have been waiting for years to get permanent residency status. They've filled out every form that is required of them, and done everything by the book. They have enough money to buy a home, but can't because they don't want to lose it if they are not approved for residency. They want a family, but are waiting to have children until they find out if they'll be able to raise them in America. They have made a point to learn English, and come over to our home regularly to practice it with us. They watch in disbelief as illegal immigrants all around them do all the things that they hope to do one day. And our government does nothing to stop them.

I personally think that President Bush is going in the wrong direction with his immigration reform plan. What we need is someone who will enforce the immigration policies that we have currently -- who will arrest illegals as soon as they are found and deport them back to their home countries. We need stronger immigration laws that will make someone think twice about sneaking across our borders, and we need to limit the privileges that illegal aliens currently enjoy.

Our schools and hospitals are being taxed daily by illegal immigrants who pay no taxes to help cover the services that they are provided. I am sick to death of it, and I'll vote against anyone who approves of the President's plan.

**Sorry for the rant, everyone. This issue just hits too close to home for me.**

Although you have a right to feel that way, would you feel the same way if they were from a "white" country?

-Rudey

In my area, the illegal immigrants are mostly Hispanic -- usually Mexican. I assume that's because it's easier for them to get here since they're the nearest country to us. However, I don't care what country they're from... If they're here illegally, then they should be sent home. If Sweden was on the other side of the border, and illegal Swedes were invading my neighborhood, then I'd have the same gripe.

I don't believe that personally but ok. If they were illegal Mexicans who kept the neighborhood looking nice, would you be against it? If they were Mexicans who spoke English and kept the neighborhood nice? If they were English, spoke the Queen's language, and kept the neighborhood nice would you still care?

What if it was just poor whites from another neighborhood?

-Rudey

I don't care if you believe it or not, Rudey. You're not living in my neighborhood, so you don't get to see the things that I see on a daily basis. BUT, to answer your questions...

If they were illegal Mexicans who kept the neighborhood looking nice, would you be against it? YES -- because they are here ILLEGALLY.

If they were English, spoke the Queen's language, and kept the neighborhood nice would you still care? YES -- because they are here illegally

What if it was just poor whites from another neighborhood? NO -- because they are here legally

I don't agree with ANY illegal alien being in this country. I don't care if they're black, white, purple or green. That's how I feel. FYI, I also have a huge problem with a guy that plays on my husband's soccer team. He's Hungarian and came over on a temporary visa. Right before he was suppose to be sent back home, he found someone to marry so that he could get a green card. He doesn't care anything about the woman, but stays married because he wants to be in the USA instead of Hungary. I don't agree with that, either, because I feel like he used a loophole in the system to stay.

If you only care about them being here illegally then why complain about everything else? Just icing on the cake?

-Rudey

Pretty much. Like I said in my first post -- sorry for the vent, but this hits really close to home.

Eh, but you saying it hits close to home is a problem of your neighborhood going down the bowl as opposed to an illegal immigration party.

-Rudey
--Do you see what I'm getting at or no?

I see what you're getting at. You're wondering why I named all the other issues instead of just saying "I think all the illegals should be deported" and leaving it at that.

The reason is that the other topics I touched on are things that piggyback on the larger issue of illegal immigration. Language barriers, the overtaxing of publically funded services, the problems that arise when illegals try to "hide" from the system by taking up residence with someone they know who is legal... all of these are sub-issues of illegal immigration -- and they are all happening in my area. They are problems that I have to deal with on a daily basis, and that's why I have such strong feelings about them.

Rudey - I do understand what you're saying - that would she be so upset if it wasn't happening in her backyard.

I get upset when I hear about anyone who is screwing our system - be it illegal immigrants of any color or people on welfare who keep having kids and live as a married couple but stay single to keep collecting welfare. Of course, I have to admit that a big part of the problem is that the system so easily allows itself to be screwed.

Yes but I don't think you're separating the issues enough. Neighborhoods change. A neighborhood with mansions becomes decrepit with poor people, drug users, and prostitutes. 20 years later that neighborhood has an influx of yuppies who fix it up and drive up prices. It would never have attracted poor people in the first place if there wasn't a demand for those people and attractive prices.

-Rudey
--You could always move to somewhere more "blue-blooded" where there aren't these cycles though.

I realize that you're playing devil's advocate here, Rudey. You make some good points. However, in the specific case of my neighborhood, it is illegal aliens who are causing the problems. You can do something about drug users and prostitutes in a neighborhood by calling the cops and putting together a neighborhood watch program. However, it's impossible to get anything done about the illegal aliens in my area because the government doesn't care. Try to get someone in to check on an illegal immigration complaint -- it doesn't happen. No one has the time to come and address the issue.

As for the comment about moving somewhere more "blue-blooded"... My husband and I work hard to afford our home. We can't move to a more upscale area because the cost of living is too high. And even if we could, why should we have to move out of our neighborhood because of illegal immigrants?? They should be the ones to move -- but no one is making them. That is my gripe.

No I don't think you can change a neighborhood like you think. There is only one good study on crime and that links neighborhood activism as the only way to counter it. It is neighbors that keep a park clean and green. It is neighbors that call parents to make kids stop hanging out late at night and causing trouble.

Now here are some things you don't mention. More than likely if your state didn't have even illegal immigrants the economy would start to flop. Have you ever wondered why some coastal states like NYC prosper?

You are trying to kill 2 birds with one stone. What you don't understand is that won't get you too far. If it were me and I cared about the things you did, I would a) work on my neighborhood by taking care of it with otehrs and calling the cops if a crime is committed and b) work to call the INS or whatever to get rid of the illegals.

-Rudey
--I'm not playing devil's advocate, just breaking it into 2 different public policy issues.

You say call the INS.

Did that, got nowhere.


You say work on the neighborhood.

We do that. We have an association that does all sorts of things for the neighborhood: clean-up days, garage sales, get-to-know-you meetings. Guess who never shows up? You can't go into someone else's yard and clean up their mess for them.


You say call the cops when crimes are committed.

We do. For example, gang grafitti started showing up on street signs in the neighborhood recently, so we contacted the local police to find out what we should do. Afterwards, we sent around leaflets to all the homes so that they could read the tips given by the police.

We have done everything that we know to do in order to keep our neighborhood going in a positive direction. But when there are more "For Rent" signs up than "For Sale" signs, then you know that it's a losing battle right now.

Where are my rose colored glasses?

So, X% of Americans are out of work and CAN'T find jobs.

But, this bill is to support undocumented workers who work in jobs that American's WON'T take.

Huh?