We must both be struck with a bug. I found myself agreeing with some of your posts the other day on a different thread. It's the end of the world! Let's both run for Congress... lol! We'll bring the good ole boys club together... maybe not.

Look I just wanted to point out that the US significance in WW2 (and most definately in WW1) wasn't the be all and end all that most Americans beleive it to be (by this I mean the average person on the street). It is a nationalistic myth that has been influenced mostly by film and TV (think of a big US produced movie or show that showed people other than the US fighting). Canada has the same nationalistic myths too; such as the militia fighting of the US invasion in 1812 (they supported the Brits, the militia sigificance has been over-inflated), and most media productions reflect this.

Yes the US had a very significant role in WW2, but so did a number of countries. Prior to it's entry into the war the US made significant contributions in material to the UK and USSR, but so did most of the other Allies. As for the Brits and the French being thankful; of course they were, their industries had been severely damaged, their manpower greatly reduced, and their economies in the hole from the war effort..... the Marshal Plan was what helped put Europe back on it's feet, and I'd feel pretty damn appreciative of that aid.

So to sum up the US was a significant combatant in WW2, but not the primary one (except for the Pacific theatre).

OKAY! FIRST...moe.ron, I know that you tend to be an instigator, and you have succeeded. While I care little for your opinions on why the war is happening, I would like to thank you for not coming right out and calling my husband a Bush-worshipping-baby-killer.

As someone who has seen Iraqi people FIRST-HAND, his enthusiasm and belief in what he is doing in Baghdad grows everyday. However, you won't see that on television or read it in your newspaper. Father's come into the streets and beg the soldiers to marry their daughters to get them away from a life of degradation, abuse, and nothingness! (This was the same in Afghanistan while my nephew was there.) Men volunteer to join the US Army, women bring meals, and children ask to do the soldier's laundry. But, maybe you're right...perhaps they were content in their lifestyle!

I have enjoyed reading this thread mostly because of the historical value. I enjoy history, however, war involved history tends to bore me. So, thank you for the education.

To others, and you know who you are, you're support for our soldiers AND what they are doing is greatly appreciated!

aj

If you think that moe.ron is instigating something I think you are taking his posts the wrong way, but then again maybe not.

Second, simply because someone chooses to oppose the war in Iraq doesn't mean that they don't support/worry about the men and women that are over there. I assure you that most and I would hope all Americans would support the troops no matter how they feel about the war.

I understand your husband is over there and I also have friends that have recently returned while others are leaving. Some of these friends did not have enthusiam that grew daily, in fact some of them thought that they were getting no where at times and felt almost helpless while other American soliders as well as Iraqi citizens were being attacked. Another one of my friends was glad to return because he couldn't handle being over there any longer, his enthusiam wore thin.

I guess it just really depends on the soldier but I heard there was an increase in soldiers in Iraq killing themselves and I'm going to try to look for an article about it.

I would like to ask where where I even applied that your husband is a baby killer. I opposed the war because of the internationl implication of the future. Unlike most people that opposed the war, humanitarian reason was not on top of my list. I understand war is needed. In fact, it is an extension of internationl relation (war in term of international war, not civil war, though one can also debate that civil war is an extension of local politics.) I fear that this war has open the pandora box on reasons for war. I hope to God I'm wrong.

This is the quote that I was referring to in which you basically...in my understanding...said that the men and women fighting this war are merely tools of the geopolitical machine. When you were in Angola and Congo did you believe in what you were doing? How did it make you feel when people made statements like those non-supporters?

To Damasa...oh lord...don't even get me started! I'm so sorry that my husband believes in what he's doing! 'Support of the Troops' was debated on another thread, so I won't go into it on here. As, I have VERY strong feelings about that as well. I suppose that living on an Army base, dealing with military people, and working for the government has left me a warped, naive sense of what the truth is.

Additionally, you mentioned Germany. After living in Germany for two years, the attitude depicted is not the feeling that I received. The younger population desperately wanted things to be different. The soldiers doing gate guarding on our base were eager to get involved in anything more than just checking ID's. The younger people do not agree with their president, however, the more aged population gets the say. As was told to me by my Germany friend, "German youth (up to about 35) are NOT encouraged to vote." This is kind of off the subject, but offers yet another perspective that you won't see on tv.

aj

I accept your apology.

Yes, because I was distributing foods to the local populatoins. I was not armed, but was shot at.

There was no non-supporters for my mission. So this question doesn't apply to me.

I wasn't trying to get you started, believe me, If I was you would know.

I was just pointing out that not all soliders feel the same way that your husband does (this isn't a bad thing or a good thing). I never said you sense of "truth" was naive or warped, those words didn't come out of my mouth.

I come from a very large military family as well as being surrounded by the same so I know the lifestyle. I just wanted to point out that not all soldiers feel the same way your husband does, I didn't want people who didn't know as much to get a "warped" view.

As for your thoughts on Germany, I don't know what to say about that except where did you live while in Germany? The feelings on young people getting involved can be different depending on the region you live - much like the U.S. Yet, I've never lived in Germany for a prolonged period of time but I do hold dual zitizenship there (Germany, U.S.).

moe.ron: I didn't apologize for anything, I still think that what you said was pretty shitty! Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine!

Damasa: I live in Frankfurt, and most of what is shown on TV is from Berlin or Munich. Furthermore, I didn't say that all soldiers felt the same way. Everyone is different, and everyone is able to cope with situations in different ways. (Two of the suicides came from people stationed on our base.) Additionally, what my husband sees in Baghdad is totally different than what my friend's husband sees in Tikrit. I'm just concerned with all the negativity that has been spewed on this thread. That is NOT support. With your military experience, you should understand that. For every negative thing we hear or see, there are several positive things that happen that we will not! I'm just really sick of everyone focusing on the negative! My main beef was with the 'support of the troops' comment, I have already made my feelings very clear on that.

I'm also curious to know what people think the future would hold if the US had not made any action in Iraq.

aj

I agree 100%

If I wanted to instigate, you would know. If I called your husband a baby killer, I would say so. I don't go around the bushes. Again, I expect an apology for accusing me of being an instigator and accusing me of accusing your husband as a baby killer.

As for war, why do you think we wage war? There are 3 main reasons. I will exclude the self-defense because that will involved 100% of the war. Instead, I will focus on the cause, the effect of war.

1. Ideology. War has been waged on ideology. Though, most of the time, ideology is being used to cover up for number the following.

2. Resources. This is perhaps the oldest reason for war. Since the beginning of time, we have fought each other for land, and natural resources. Often time, governments use ideology to legitimize the war for resources. One can look at Palestine as a good example. Both side use ideology for the battle over land.

3. Sphere of influence. This can also use ideology to legitimize this. Vietnam War is a perfect example of a battle over the sphere of influence. It was a battle over influencing south East Asia.

4. Humanitarian purposes. This is very rare. There have been a few cases. Bosnia is perhaps a good example. I would not call peace keeping as a war because they sent there after a war is wage. So I would preclude the East Timor operations or most of the other operations in Africa and Asia.

I gather that the Iraq war is #3. You see, AEI has produced a paper about 2 to 3 years ago wanting to changed the Middle East. They content that changing it has to go through Iraq. It also help that most of the AEI people are former Bush I administration officials. When GWB won the election, many AEI people were put into power. Hence, the plan for the Iraqi war was waged before even September 11. They follow the premise of the 60s theory of the domino theory.

Part of my hostility about the Iraqi conflict is that

#1. It was illegal. Resolution 1441 does not give authorization to invade the country. It threatens Iraq with future resolution to authorize the use of force. There have been only 2 Security Council resolutions which authorized the use of force, the Korean War, and the Gulf War Pt. 1.

#2. It sets bad precedent. Pre-emptive strike is illegal, under the UN charter and international relations. Also, it now gives the green light for other nations with past grudges to settle. China is making wave with Taiwan. And I know damn well that they are looking at this pre-emptive strike in Iraq as a legitimate strategy against them.

Now you know why I’m against the war.

I never said that you said that he was one! And, you ARE an instigator! You instigate reactions by what you are saying! It's not necessarily a bad thing...how come so sensitive?

aj

That quote seems to me that I have accused your husband of "a Bush-worshipping-baby-killer." I didn't even know you were married, maybe I read the post wrong. Whatever, it's all good. The terrestrials balance is back again.