I also have another good link that has info on these jobs. It's vault.com

You probably have heard of it but if you haven't it gives you a simple understanding of the firms and the work. The people on the vault message board are usually undergrads who are still competing for jobs so they're a bit cut throat.

Also just to stay sharp for any interview or just for the sake of being sharp on a daily basis, I'd recommend seriously thinking about every problematic situation in your life and coming up with some sort of methodology on how you would approach it now to solve the problem. With banking, you have to be confident. At the same time you have to realize you are nothing coming in and need to support those higher than you because you're only an analyst right now. I think a good part of what makes bankers confident is their ability to see a problem and not shying away from it but diving in.

For trading do math in your head. Go to the bathroom and do long division. I'm not kidding - it works and you can be confident with being under pressure when you have a few seconds to do those silly things in an interview.

For consulting, do the problem solving but be more creative with it. One of the old questions that nobody asks anymore is why manholes are round. So come up with creative answers and try to involve math in there somehow. Try to estimate how many people in the US have cable TV.

Edited to add a couple things for banking:

Generally what an investment bank does is generate large amounts of money for a client (because no commercial bank gives out billion dollar loans), take a company public and releasing IPOs, or helping companies merge (M&A). Those are the three product groups we concentrate on. When you raise capital you do it by creating bonds for a client to ensure the maximum benefit to them. I don't think M&A was a big business generator for banks until the likes of Bruce Wasserstein stepped up to bat.

The 80's were filled with incredibly innovative M&A deals...some of it just pure brutality with firms hiring private investigators to weaken the leadership of a company before helping their client in a bid for a hostile takeover. I guess that's what inspired movies like "wall street" (coincidentally one of the saddest movies ever). M&A for the last couple years has been down. The banks cut their M&A staff heavily because of that. Lately though M&A is picking up and banks are hiring larger analyst classes (good news for any of you undergrads).

And for banking and consulting you have to be able to present well and sell like none other. You're sitting with a top guy at a company, why the hell should he follow through with your recommendations? You have to show him your bank has incredible spreads that can help them. You have to talk about the talent on your team and what you can do. You're not some slow kid who graduated with a marketing degree and is wondering when he'll be able to use the term "brand management" ever. You are the MAN/WOMAN!!! Act like it.

Below are some simple news links on Reuters that are free where you can see just a glimpse of what's going on:

IPO News

News on Raising Capital through bonds

Mergers & Acquisitions News

-Rudey

Yeah, it would have. We had that covered until my director level position was eliminated in a merger of two "corporate giants."

We were able to live pretty much the same as we had, but it bit deeply into savings, etc. Fortunately, we didn't have to invade retirement savings, stocks, 401k, etc. (The government has taken care of that for us recently, though) As it turned out, any of the four "highly selective" schools where he was accepted would have put us in serious debt, so your point is well taken.

Of course, at my age, finding a comparable job with comparable salary is a challenge. Age descrimination ain't fun. After working those very long weeks, nights, weekends and holidays in TV when I was younger, it doesn't sound like much fun anymore.

Thank goodness for National Merit.

That's not always the case. My father was around for almost everything, never worked an 80 hour week in my memory (granted, he was a bit older than I plan to start a family), and he was able to pay for college and grad school for my sister and I--without any scholarships or financial aid.

You seriously don't have to live a fast paced lifestyle during your youth, and when your children are young, to assure a comfortable lifestyle for them.

i want to work a minimal amount of hours for obscene amounts of money. i don't want to deal with customers, but i will deal with 1 client a week if i absolutely must. what would this wonderful job title be? i won't need bonuses, dental/health, or many other perks if the amount of money is really profane.

Own a subway.

-Rudey
--Just sit back and enjoy the profits.

That's the kind of job I want. Where can I find this magical job?

Subway...weren't you listening?

-Rudey
--They make more money than Tim Hortons.

Then what am I doing here...?(can't say because I'm actually at work) :D

Minimal Work
 

A few months ago, during the Refi. boom, the mortgage industry was at some of the best rates seen in the last 20-30 years. Loan Officers were making a tremendous profit margin while people were refinancing their homes at killer rates. This would have been a great job because even amateurs who had not yet established realtor contacts or developed a pipeline & infrastructure were extremely successful. The market has since begun to steer towards it's reciprocal but continues to be very volatile. Rates are still better today than they were a year ago. Many loan officers, especially those in smaller mortgage companies, usually work their own hours and/or work from home even. Best Wishes, Boodleboy322

but rudey, we gotta have my fucking timmies!

I don't know, i'd much rather have the cash to be driving an M3 (you know they have formula 1 style paddle-shifters now?) at 25 than a C 600 when i'm 40. For me, i'll sit on my pretty boy looks... hoping for that elusive sugar momma.

Perhaps...the sugar mama thing sounds good, too. It'd be a blow to my self respect, but pride is for the poor. Besides, having Paris Hilton on my arm would help stroke my ego back to way above normal. I don't care where it's been before.

Don't bad mouth Freedom Hilton. I love her. And if you saw the girls bankers roll with, your mouth would drop. These are Paris Hilton to the max. American Psycho has some of those girls. But usually those are the coke head bankers.

-Rudey
--Nick, I didn't know they had that on the M3. My buddy has one with an incredibly modified engine but we're pretty sure his family is involved with some international crime syndicate.

How would you describe the "mold" of these banking firms? (Goldman, Credit Suisse, Merrill, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley...just to name a few..)

Yeah so could you just name any and every bank while you're at it? :)

Goldman - Hey I'm a nerd and proud of it and would take a stabbing for the firm. I think regardless that I'm great.

Morgan Stanley - I'm "white shoe" great. This is actually a disappearing mold though.

CSFB is a bit European and Merrill and JP tend to be a bit more diverse except certain product groups have nerdier former accountant types, some have frat boys, etc.

The mold is hard to describe. It varies by firm, region, product group, industry focus, etc. These firms all look for the same things but there is just something that makes you look like you fit in with them and that's when they hire you. That's why most IB's do not give you quant tests. Only UBS and HSBC did that with me and only Deutsche asked me to talk about modelling. It's all personality after they realize you're smart.

-Rudey

which firm do you work at?

Sorry, I don't reveal certain personal information.

-Rudey

I can understand that. You wouldn't want all the GC ladies stalking you at work. ;) :p

According to Fed Reserve Analysts:
 

Salaries: The combined salaries of workers in NYC employed in the Securities industry is 20% of all earnings in NYC. I don't think this figure includes bonuses since a bonus isn't considered salary, and I have no idea who makes most of their income from salary but it isn't us.

-Rudey
--That's another reason to learn about this industry; we carry the world's greatest city on our backs.

I really need to get a big money job. Rudey, where should I start? Should I get an MBA? I really want to make some changes in my life.

I'd try to get into a school with a big name - top 10. MBA is a worthless degree if not for the networking connections. I'd look into pub pol/international studies type programs as well. Then schmooze and land a good job. The programs tend to look more favorably on people not straight out of college.

-Rudey
--I'm personally looking at Woodrow wilson right now above everything else because of one of our regional banker's experience there.

This guy made $50 million trading in England last year:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori.../66814/1/.html

-Rudey

I've seen a few sources on this guy. One article quoted it at 70 mil., 20 in cash and 50 in stocks/options. Ahhh goldman sachs....

I'm pretty sure it's at 50 with the bulk being options and not cash. The guy runs the exotics desk in london pretty much and really has a lot of brains and control they say. The rest of the desk is phd level people type geniuses and this guy is the biggest one there. I hear he really gives a lot of crap to the lowers and has a lot of control over who trades so if you end up in gs exotics you end up getting a lot of crap if you're not incredible.

And it's not really normal goldman stuff - this is more prop based and I think he pretty much acts as his own hedge fund.

-Rudey
--Man I wish someone would just give me a couple hundred million to play around with.

Right.
I'm assuming we was working under a commissioned salary, how much would he have earned for GSCO to get that bonus, 4-500 mil? Would he be entitled to any other benefits, such as being named a partner? I made reference to goldman, because they seem to have a disproportionate share of these guys.

I can find that info out if you really want but generally these guys - specially the ones doing prop, tend to have low salaries. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a salary less than 150K only and then rest of it was bonus.

GS actually doesn't have that many of these superstar guys. These types tend not to stick at investment banks - even at one of the top ones like goldman. They move onto one of the more established hedge funds (as opposed to the mom and pop hedge funds that close after a year or two). At the end of the day, working for citadel or sac would provide larger paychecks I would think.

-Rudey

Naw, that's not necessary. I figured the returns were substantial because i heard this guy had a complicated system focusing on high returns.

The year just ended for analysts.

Corporate finance and M&A had a much better year than previously. HSBC have 0 bonuses the previous year - that's how bad it was. The numbers range from 15-35 for 1st years (55 base) and about 15-50 (65 base) for 2nd years. I'm really amazed by how quickly M&A picked up steam actually and wonder what they'll do next year.

Public finance products are much more stable and had a phenomenal year just now and when private sector financing projects were done, municipalities still issued bonds and notes. The lower interest rates led to more municipalities entering into complex deriviatives and swaps with variable rate functions and refunding of previous debts. Next year, supply will definitely be lower but if you're a market share firm, it won't affect you. Analysts earned from 10-30 (45-55 base) and 20-50 (65 base) from the ranges I saw.

It's actually going to get more interesting as the financings get more complex and for us in fixed income munis, the election really does present some interesting opportunities hopefully.

-Rudey
--I wish some of you would get interested in this stuff

Being an analyst sounds better than my crappy school. How would I make the switch?

Rudey, I'm interested.

Network into it for your situation, if you really are interested and not just pulling my leg. Lots of people who work in entertainment companies, pharmaceuticals, healthcare, etc. come into those respective groups at banks. It is exciting. I really don't know of a job that can compare.

Also, I don't know if I said this earlier but there are 2 analysts. All people straight out of college are called analysts. I have heard of junior or assistant analysts and I'm guessing those are not the brightest bulbs that are there simply to fill a spot but i have no idea what their role is - probably paper pushers. Anyway then there are analysts who analyze certain things. For example equity research analysts watch over companies and are on tv a lot giving their opinions on performances. That is their occupation and not their position. Technically they work for an investment bank but aren't bankers either.

Someone with an architecture background or real estate, could work within real estate groups or on the housing sides of municipals. I personally am not the biggest fan of housing but then again I'm a general banker and chose not to specialize. I mostly work along the coast, (primarily along Eastern) and somehow also get a lot of sports and stadium type deals too.

-Rudey

"And for banking and consulting you have to be able to present well and sell like none other. You're sitting with a top guy at a company, why the hell should he follow through with your recommendations? You have to show him your bank has incredible spreads that can help them."

Im interested in this profession. Im graduating in May with a Marketing Degree. Also if you arent at one of the top 20 business schools how does one enter the field? Also where can you go to gain more information?

I posted a lot of links in here about banking and also links to job websites like vault.com where I used to spend hours researching.

Truthfully, if you haven't gone to a school that is represented at it is harder to get into. But I guess it's about how badly you want it. I did consulting and banking and found that right now banking is more in tune with what I want from life.

You can ask questions and I'll try and help out.

-Rudey

Right now Im looking at these websites and seeing what types of jobs I would be qualified for in Boston or DC. Im going to live in either of these cities when I graduate. If I have any questions Ill certainly post.

I was wondering, what are the top schools for the jobs that have been discussed in this thread?

Essentially Ivy+ are targeted heavily (basically the Ivies and schools like Stanford, MIT, Chicago, and Northwestern. From state schools I would say a couple have decent shots like UVA, UT Austin, Berkeley, UMich, and UCLA but they're not really recruited that heavily.

The rest of the schools are outside of the recruitment schedules. Basically that means that the huge firms won't be at your school giving cool presentations, taking you to dinner, all that jazz before interviews.

Even within the target schools, some firms refuse to visit certain schools. My school wasn't good enough for certain firms (Blackstone didn't recruit from our undergrad class) and firms like Bain stuck heavily to New England schools.

Now what do you do if you're not in a target school? The biggest thing is to network. Meet people. Get your name out there and then you can possibly get an interview spot. Of course it is a lot harder, but it will be worth it. The other thing you can do is get your foot into the door with a small boutique or regional. Some boutiques are considered extremely prestigious (hence they recruit at only 1 or 2 schools) and are lead by incredible bankers that are very famous but most are just small shops where you won't be exposed to that many great deals, BUT you'll learn to trade and can work hard to get into a good business school and use that to get into a better firm.

-Rudey
--Good luck!

Banking Firms
 

I work at the corporate headquarters of First Horizon Home Loan Corporation in Dallas. PM me if you're interested in learning more about the Mortgage Banking Industry. Regards,

Well, I want to go to med school, and into primary care to boot. So that means not enough money to pay my loans with no chance for a life until I'm 35. Maybe I should ditch and go into Pharma?

Only if you want to....Its hard being poor for a long time, but if you love what you do, it's easier. My chosen profession's salary is based pretty much on how much money you bring in through your grants for research. No grants, no money. Lots of grants, lots of money. There is a baseline salary at most institutions, although its not exactly a salary to brag about, and certainly not anything like what financiers make. Big pharma can be good money if you have the qualifications and how to get up the corporate ladder, but its not guaranteed, and though it can be comfortable, it'll rarely be as much as some other jobs I can think of.
I can get you starting 411, though if you're interested ;)

This thread is about banking and consulting really. Pharma incomes can't compare - maybe to consulting but not to banking. You should create a special thread just for that.

-Rudey

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/bu...lazard.html?hp

September 27, 2004
Lazard Is Near a Public Offer, Executives Say
By ANDREW ROSS SORKIN

Bruce Wasserstein, the big, brash Wall Street deal maker, is at it again.

Mr. Wasserstein, who runs Lazard, the private investment bank known for its privacy, is hatching a plan to take the company public and buy out its longtime chairman, Michel David-Weill, according to executives briefed on the plan.

Mr. Wasserstein, who has been quietly negotiating the details of a deal with Mr. David-Weill for months, revealed the outlines of the proposed transaction on Friday to the firm's partners at a special meeting at its New York office in Rockefeller Center, the executives said.

The initial public offering could raise more than $3 billion and may be registered in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission within the next several weeks, the executives said. The offering would bring an end to the secrecy and mystery that has long shrouded Lazard, a firm that is said to be beset by chronic infighting and defections and whose finances and internal workings have never been laid bare.

Already, there appears to be dissension among the firm's partners, who have begun to express worry and frustration that Mr. Wasserstein does not plan to divide the proceeds of public offering equitably, the executives acknowledged. The executives added that there was also nervousness among some of Lazard's best-known bankers that the company's public filing would expose an embarrassing truth about its finances: its asset management group and its restructuring unit bring in the bulk of the firm's profit and help support what it has long advertised as its franchise - its high-profile mergers and acquisitions advisory business.

Richard Silverman, a spokesman for Lazard, declined to comment yesterday.

Under the terms of the proposed transaction, Mr. Wasserstein would use a large part of the proceeds to buy out Mr. David-Weill and the firm's other nonworking partners, the executives said. Mr. Wasserstein has been in a heated battle with Mr. David-Weill and the other partners for almost two years over the amount of money he committed to pay some recently hired bankers as an inducement to work at Lazard, the executives said. Those payments have greatly eaten into the profit distributions that Lazard makes to its nonworking partners, they said.

Because of long-simmering tension between Mr. Wasserstein and Mr. David-Weill, who can veto the plan, the executives said that the deal could still collapse or be postponed at a moment's notice. The final details of the transaction still have to be completed, the executives said, raising the possibility that new sticking points may emerge.

For Mr. Wasserstein, a millionaire many times over who is the firm's second-largest shareholder behind Mr. David-Weill, the public offering, if completed, would be his second major payday in less than five years. Mr. Wasserstein sold his firm Wasserstein Perella & Company to Dresdner Bank of Germany for $1.37 billion in 2000 at the height of the stock market bubble. Mr. Wasserstein has used some of his wealth to build a media mini-empire on the side. Last fall, he bought New York Magazine from Primedia, which is controlled by Kohlberg Kravis Robert & Company; he also owns American Lawyer and The Deal, among others.

The public offering would also be a big payday for some of Lazard's bankers, many of whom Mr. Wasserstein offered equity stakes in addition to enormous bonuses as a carrot to join the firm. The list is a who's who of former First Boston bankers with whom Mr. Wasserstein worked in the 1980's, in the heyday of the takeover boom. Those bankers include Gary W. Parr, Charles Ward, Michael Biondi and Jeffrey Rosen.

One issue that appears to be unresolved is how long Lazard's bankers would be "locked up" that is, forced to remain at the firm before leaving and selling their shares in the firm. Mr. Wasserstein had been criticized after selling his firm to Dresdner because many of the firm's best bankers, including him, quickly took their money and fled. In the case of Lazard's offering, the bankers could be locked up for as long as three years, the executives said.

Mr. Wasserstein, who joined Lazard Jan. 1, 2002, and has put his imprint on the firm by breaking down many of its fiefs and redeploying bankers, is hoping to take advantage of public investors' appetite for shares in financial services firms.

This spring, Greenhill & Company, a New York City boutique investment bank, raised $87 million and has a total market value of about $735 million. A Lazard public offering could be the biggest among investment banks since Goldman Sachs's initial offering in 1999, which raised $3.7 billion. As it happens, Goldman Sachs will be the lead underwriter on Lazard's offering, the executives said.