Alpha Delta Phi has never had a chapter at Washington & Lee. Delta Upsilon had a chapter at Washington & Lee from 1930-1971.Psi Upsilon had a chapter had a chapter from 1970-1974.
I wonder if either National was contacted by the ex Sig Ep's before AD PHi was contacted.
DU mentioned reviving the W&L chapter in a magazine article in 97or 98.

I wonder if the SIGEp/ADPhi situation is a natural result of National Org's being readier to suspend chapters without a smoking gun.

Delta Tau Delta also had a chapter here, the Phi chapter. ATO *might* have... not sure... they were founded in Lexington.


My understanding is that ADPhi was contacted because of some connections the then SigEp brothers had.

First off, I wasn't trying to be rude, if you perceived it that way. I'm just trying to explain our campus culture (of which I do not approve).

I'd say yes to this one. The school tries to enforce it but the hazing is kept well underground. The things that ARE out in the open are not, however, reprimanded (ie dressing like pirates to class). In my mind, if they really wanted to prove it though, they could.

Definately. No fraternity here wants to see hazing end, except for maybe 2-3 of them. The IFC would take action and does take action if violations are found, but they seldom are "found out", and those that are found are usually minor.

On the contrary, I think most parents are opposed to hazing. I've only met one pro-hazing father. There is a sense in which, though, most people who come here do expect to pledge. Guys find out pretty early that there will be hazing involved. Parents generally get lied to. Most parents I have met are adamantly anti-hazing. And by no means does the school promote hazing to parents. It doesn't even promote Greek life in its admissions policies.

Well, yes, to a degree. No one wants to be beat to a pulp, but most support hazing to a degree. 80% of guys here pledge. And the "best" fraternities are the worst hazers.

This statement sums up what's best and worst about W&L all at once. We must diversify and reform our Greek life, but we should keep our Greek and other important traditions.

Well... not sure about the emotional implications. I feel that a lot of that gets repressed until graduation, or it turns into a drinking issue. Alcoholism is a definite problem here! :( Alumni social pressure is key. The top 4-5 fraternities are NOT going to get kicked off for any length of time or suffer any consequences so major as to permanently damage their standing.

I've never seen a case that came to a Virginia legal system. I've seen 2-3 cases that went to the IFC for minor things. I know of one case where 6-7 brothers resigned from a house to avoid any complications (that was an alcohol poisoning issue).. I know of a few broken bones, etc, but I don't think those were ever "found out"....

In short, it's all hidden. Everyone knows it's there, but the fraternities don't want to change, most other people are too scared to rat them out, and the school doesn't want to tarnish its reputation or lose alumni support by revealing it or closing chapters.

I don't want this to turn into a W&L hazing thread. That's not what I meant this as.

An article came out in the non-online school paper today.

The gist of it is that the NIC will hear SigEp's complaint against ADPhi this week. SigEp does not believe that it released the members of the Virginia Epsilon chapter.

If I can find the article online I will, but I don't want to retype the thing. Actually my little sis is the news editor of this paper and wrote the article... so maybe she could email it to me! :D

breathesgelatin -- I didn't think you were being rude in any way, and I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought that. If I did, I truly apologize.

Ooooh OK! I can be super-sensitive sometimes! :)
Really though, it is worth be sarcastic about the hazing here and the lack of restraint by ANY authority--IFC, University, etc.

Back to our regularly scheduled chat!

Why should they need a release in the first place?

If SigEp can expell the members at will then why can't members drop out at will?

SigEp International is coming off as a immature ex that dumps you. Then when the ex hears you are dating someone new, they want to get back together, but you tell them no. As you are trying to walk away the ex is holding onto your leg and being dragged down the street. The ex is shouting, "it's not over til I say it's over".

It has to do with completing the proper paperwork...sure you can drop at will, but you can't just "disappear", either you or the chapter has to send paperwork into HQ as documentation. (At least that's how AST does it, and I'm sure every other GLO does something similar as well....)

Because under NIC by-laws, Alpha Delta Phi cannot initiate the guys in question unless and until Si Ep's national headquarters confirms in writing that those guys are no longer members of Sigma Phi Epsilon. Alpha Delta Phi and the W&L Sig Ep's apparently maintain that the letters sent to all of the W&L Sig Ep's from Sig Ep headquarters satisfies the by-law; Sig Ep apparently is maintaining the opposite. If Sig Ep is right, then the Adelphians initiated the W&L guys in violation of the NIC by-laws.

True...also, we don't know exactly what the letters said. They could have said "You are officially released from membership in SigEp" or they could have said "The W&L chapter is officially closed. Unless otherwise notified, each brother is granted alum status." Who knows what the actual wording is?

MysticCat81
Senior Member

Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 532

quote:
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The two fraternities that left the NIC last year are Phi Delta Theta and Kappa Sigma. Over the years, quite a few well-known inter/national fraternities have left the NIC and rejoined later.

It has to be remembered that the NIC is quite different from the NPC. The NIC has little if any "governing" authority and has little ability to make binding policy for its members like the NPC does. Rather, it is mainly an advocacy and support organization for member fraternities. Policies like the one that prevents Joe Blow from being initiated by a second fraternity until Joe's first fraternity confirms that he is no longer a member exist not because the NIC has imposed it per se, but because the member fraternities have agreed to the policy as a condition of membership in the NIC.


__________________

Not quite. Like you said on your previous post the NIC has little if any authority.

To my understanding, they were granted alum status. The brothers wanted to REJECT that offer of alum status, so they sent in letters to SigEp HQ explaining that. SigEp nationals has yet to acknowledge these letters.

True, but...

To go the source, section 1.a of the NIC's by-laws states:

a) Fraternity Membership. To be eligible for membership in the Conference, a fraternity must:
...
(3) Be mutually exclusive of and in competition with other general fraternities, meaning that no member fraternity shall initiate a member of another fraternity until such time as the second fraternity shall have been formally notified in writing by the national office of the first fraternity that a candidate for membership in the second fraternity is no longer regarded as a member of the fraternity.

Pursuant to the NIC's constitution (Article X), violation of this provision could be grounds for sanctioning Alpha Delta Phi; sanctioning could (though not necessarily would) include expulsion from the NIC.

I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not happywith this comparison of my national fraternity. I seriously doubt SigEp HQ would act petty or immature toward the W & L former SigEps or ADPhi. I would imagine that HQ's taking this position because of insurance and paperwork problems. It might possibly be a risk managment concern-since they didn't go alumni, they could possibly still be considered members of SPE. But, since they are still a functioning fraternity chapter (the guys are holding rush, etc.), HQ is concerned that they are now open to liability, since the guys could legally still be considered SigEps, (because the offer of alumni status was rejected) but SigEp HQ has no control over the chapter or any way to limit their liability, since the guys have "affiliated" with ADPhi.

In Phi,
SigEp653

If SigEp is worried about insurance, risk management or whatever then all they have to do is stop making excuses and officially cut the ties and let the members go with ADPhi.
SigEp is acting petty. They don't want these guys but at the same time they are trying to prevent them from joining a different national fraternity. That is lame.

Re: Re: W & L Situation
 

Yeah, I can still be mad at them for breaking their oath. You can hate someone as much as you want, but this doesn't give you an excuse to break your word to them. The guys at W & L gave their word of honor to abide by the oath, and if they break it, they are without honor and not worthy of my trust or friendship as a fellow SigEp. When I gave my word of honor three years ago to abide by the oath, I gave my word to all of my SigEp brothers. they did the same. It would be an insult to all that SigEp holds dear for them to break their word.

In Phi,
Sigep653

W & L Situation
 

i don't agree with you madmax, but like I said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I also don't think that everyone knows all the facts of the situation, or what exactly the reasoning SigEp HQ has for what they're doing. (I know I certaintly don't, I've just been guessing.) So, I guess we'll see what happens.

in Phi,
SigEp653

Re: W & L Situation
 

OK. If you don't agree with me then do you agree with SPE's own policy on termination of membership? According you SPE's own policy, there are two ways to terminate membership:
A. Resignation
B. Expulsion.

The chapter has resigned in writing by all accounts. SPE HQ has even acknowledged the fact that the members resigned in writing.


The members should send a certified letter to SPE HQ and the NIC restating their resignation and a copy of SPE own policy on termination of membership and then go on their business as ADPhi.



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SIGMA PHI EPSILON FRATERNITY



POLICY ON TERMINATION OF MEMBERSHIP





There are two options for a brother who wishes to terminate his member_ship, and both must be handled through the chapter where he was initiated or the chapter where he has subsequently affiliated. The termination of membership cannot be handled by Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters until it has been considered by the member’s chapter.



RESIGNATION — A member who wishes to voluntarily terminate his membership in Sigma Phi Epsilon may resign by petitioning his chapter. His petition for resignation must be accepted by the chapter and forwarded to Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters with a resignation statement certifying that the member is not indebted to the Fraternity and is turning in his membership credentials. This resignation form must be accompanied by an extract of the chapter minutes wherein the resignation was accepted, along with the life membership card and membership certificate.



EXPULSION — A member may be expelled for being indebted to his chapter for a period of 60 days, by a majority vote of either the chapter or its alumni board.



A member may be expelled for reasons other than indebtedness only through a trial. Trial procedures are available from Sigma Phi Epsilon Headquarters.

Is there an Alpha Delt on here? I believe their national office is looking to expand and is willing to take on the added risk because they don't have too many chapters.

-Rudey

Re: Re: W & L Situation
 

There goes the problem, according to the policy, the resignation must be accepted by the chapter. Since there is no chapter to accept the resignation, ergo, the resignation can not be accepted until a new charter is established.

OK, no *official* word yet, but word on the street is that in the NIC hearing about SigEp's complaint, ADPhi was nationally censored. The chapter at W&L will thus not be an ADPhi chapter.

As soon as I get more info I'll post.

Ok... I've heard some W&L people are browsing this thread... So let me clarify a few things!

Do I think that it was right that SigEp lost their charter?
No.
I have a lot of friends in the chapter. They are awesome.

Do I think they have an uphill battle to acheive recognition?
Yes.
I knew it would be difficult because of our administrative climate, as well as the sentiment of our local IFC.

Do I think SigEp nationals was kinda crazy?
Yeah.

Do I think that the chapter was strong?
Yes.
They had good numbers and a real diversity of guys. They were/are definately one of the most progressive groups on campus.

Do I think that SigEp could probably justify itself in its actions to some degree?
Yes.
Every chapter on my campus, and many of the chapters I read about on GC tell stories of great chapters that don't necessarily manage their risks appropriately. It can happen to any chapter, and one thing my chapter strives for is for strict risk management because we're aware of the dangers to ourselves and we don't want to risk our charter.
What I'm saying goes for almost every fraternity chapter I know--not just this particular one. Many chapters have done things for which their nationals could justify themselves in taking charters. A very watchful nationals especially...