this is why
 

The other chapters closed quite a while ago, and I'd wager their old houses were also bought by the school or by fraternities.

The houses are now owned and used by the university.

ETA: I didn't realize that 33girl had posted this info.

Damn, just wrote a nice post but got booted oof line and did not get printed!:mad:

To shorten it, If Ole Miss. is that hard to Colonize, and it costs $$$$$$$$$ of dollars and the good ole girl system is as tru as some say, then why would a National want to be there except for the Prestige?:confused:

I for one who was trying to lead a Major Greek Organization would say" I will spend our Money" at other schools where we can get more for the money spent!:) More Bang for the Buck!

So let OLE MISS sit in their Nether Land and just surround them with Great Chapters. Let them come asking Me to Join!:cool:

Just out of Curiosity is Just "OLE MISS and Miss St. " But two Schools?:confused:

Ole Miss-->The University of Mississippi in Oxford, MS (1 hour south of Memphis, TN)

Mississippi State/MSU--->Mississippi State University in Starkville, MS

Southern Miss--->University of Southern Mississippi in Hattiesburg, MS, about 2 hours northeast of New Orleans and an hour north of the coast of the Mississippi (My sister transferred down there for her major and she loves it! There just isn't an AOII chapter there so she went early alumna.)

-------------------
And we do have a new philanthropic sorority, Omega Phi Alpha, they do not have a house but that way their dues are less and this sort of sorority appeals to women who find NPC Sorority dues to be too high.....

Ok the reason it couldn't be a chpater that has closed within the past about 20 years is because Ole miss seems to be soo competitive and sooo steeped in history that MANY MANY girls are legacy and or have a specific chapter in mind arleady when they start rush. When you have a system like that any "negative" (IE this chpater left campus already) is death to a new group. It seems to me they REALLY need to expand.. but, with a system like that it's really hard to break in for the above mentioned reasons.
Who know maybe some completely new sorority is really what Ole Miss needs... like an Alpha Phi, a group with a fairly large national base, but not necessarily in the south... of course it coudl fail miserably... BUT MAYBE enough women would find a new organization interesting and exciting and want to begin its history... I don't think it's VERY likely at Ole Miss, but perhaps it would suprise us. :D

Within the next few days the Office of Greek Life should have the names othe New Members of Sororities and Pledges of Fraternities listed on their site.

here is the site.
http://www.greeks.olemiss.edu/

Speaking as a coastal Mississippian, there were a lot of people from my hight school who went to Ole Miss last year. A majority of them planned to join a sorority, but I think most of them either decided not to do it, dropped out during rush, or didn't get bidded.

From what I've heard, it would be a virtual impossibility to start a new NPC chapter there because the other ones have been there for such a long time. Southern tradition and all that. :)

I would agree...and I would not want to see us fail at a school like that. I think that maybe once we expand to a few "lesser" schools down there and become stronger where we already are, then we'd have a shot at it, but I would hate to see us spend all that money and then not succeed.

I tried this site, and the first couple of days it said it was under construction. When I checked today, there was nothing about the bid list, no link or anything. The only thing there was something about registering your group for something.

Will they show the bid list at all? Where would it be if not at this site?

Gotta love Ole Miss Greek Life...yes they did have a link up last week but now they have their fundraiser there. I would think to just keep on checking back to see if they have the links up. I know some of us are still waiting on the ranks for the Spring 2003 grades to be posted!

Thanks!

Before it became the fundraising site, I did see the men's bid list. It only went through half of the fraternities before it showed an error message unfortunately. The list for the women wasn't up. Oh well.

Now the message is that the site is being updated. Maybe it takes a lot of time to type in all those names!!!

Well, maybe not..... Kappa Alpha Theta was established at Ole Miss in 1979, just less than 25 years ago. We are far younger than most of the other groups on campus. For the first several years, we had no house on a campus with HUGE sorority houses. We rushed in the student union on hideous orange & brown carpet :-(

We were the first Theta chapter in the state, so we had precious few alums close by for support. Our charter members had Big Sisters from the University of Alabama. Because so many Mississippi girls stay in state for college, many PNMs knew very little about Theta. They are raised from birth to pledge ChiO or Tri Delt or DG!

It was a lot of work at the beginning, but it CAN be done successfully at Ole Miss! Our new house was built within the first 3 years, which was absolutely crucial. The Theta chapter is among the strongest on campus.

Ok for those of us who go to rather small schools can you imagine having 250+ sistesrs? Quota at Morehead is 60...60 girls... we only have like 100 girls go through recruitment. I cant even imagine recruitment.. i bet it is HARD!!!!!Im still just in complete shock that this is possible. You know its kinda bad for those of us who go to small schools...it seems so unbalanced!! Here they have way too many and we have way not enough. The smallest National sorority at Morehead is Tri-Sigma and until they meet quota we cant raise the amount of girls we can pick up!

Sorry I haven't jumped in on this one yet...been busy w/ school...
It would be suicide for ADPi or ZTA to try to come back on because they were not successful the first time and that would always be hanging over their heads...

I'm not sure that a new organization could survive...the others are sooo established and many girls are legacies.

Truthfully...most girls going through have a sorority in mind...now once they get in the rush process they often change their mind, but they are all well aware of the reputation of each group...and all of the current chapters are so strong that I'm not sure a new one could stand a fair chance.

I agree that there are way too many members in the sororities at Ole Miss. It is very difficult to learn everyone's name...most people don't know everyone's name in their sorority...let alone getting to know them. Living in the house helps...but then again most of the houses only hold up to 50 or 60.

The new way of doing rush this year helped more girls get in a house, but it also increased the numbers. They go up every year. When I pledged quota was 60, I think. And this year when I am graduating it was 86, I think -with most houses getting around 91 new pledges. Still even with the numbers I don't think a new house could make it. Even if it were to be one that is strong in the south.

Any sorority, including those who have recently failed at Ole Miss, can successfully colonize there. Its very simple. From reading this thread, Ole Miss has the most superficial greek system in the country. Don't fight it, go with it.

This is the plan; Sorority X starts recruitment the day after formal rush ends. They only pledge up women who are drop-dead gorgeous. Not cute, not nice, but beyond pretty. They don't go for high numbers. 10-20 will do. Sorority X also buys letters for these women. Lots and lots of letters. They wear them everywhere, and within a few months of men salivating, and women complaining, they now have the reputation as the prettiest. Two months after the first batch of women go through, they recruit a second pledge class. Two months later another, and two months later another. Sorority X also invests the money into a house, and there you have it. A new, and successful Ole Miss sorority.

It doesn't quite work that way. Many of those pretty girls already have a sorority in mind that they want to join. Why would they join a colony when they can be an XYZ which is already established and a top-tier sorority? Also, it's not just pretty girls that make a chapter great. You need a well-rounded chapter in order to survive. A bunch of pretty faces won't keep a chapter going. The idea is to recruit pretty faces, leaders, girls on the honor roll, and girls who are good at sports. This mix makes a good chapter. Unfortunately, girls who excel at these things are usually already in an established chapter. At very competitive, southern universities like Ole Miss, it is hard to recruit these top girls because these girls will usually only want a specific sorority and naturally it is not the one that is colonizing.

What hottytoddy and ZTAngel said!!!!!!!


And that, my friends, is why it is so @#! hard for any new sorority to come on at a strongly Greek Southern campus.

Though your "plan" might work at FSU, I firmly believe it would fail at Ole Miss. Ole Miss greek system itself is not so superficial, it is based more on tradition and legacy. Most of the young ladies who attend Ole Miss are following in their mother or father's footsteps, and being a southern women, they happen to be naturally beautiful :). Mother's want their daughter's to continue on with family tradition. PNMs want to join the chapters they grew-up seeing on campus on those fall Saturday afternoons. I am well aware at FSU recs do not play as large a role in recruitment, as does beauty and clothes labels. At Ole Miss, recs, family tradtion, legacy, high school, church and finance's come before beauty (not that it is not considerd).

As I mentioned earlier: This year 92% of the 889 PNM's particitpating in Formal Recruitment were placed in one of the nine chapters! Quota was set at 86, which all nine chapters met! However, more than half of the sororities on campus took a pledge class of 90+ NMs! I am hard pressed to find another campus that can match the University of Mississippi's placement rate this year (and I doubt anyone else could on a campus with 500+ PNM rushing). I think that it is more likely that the majority of the 8% were released by the "ONE" sorority they had to have, so they dropped out, as opposed to being released by all nine chapters.

Recruitment is in October, most of the young ladies that are interested in Greek Life rush at that time. If we were to use your formula, less than 80 girls would be interested in the New Chapter... hummm, all nine chapters at Ole Miss are close to, at or over 200 members. You also have to think about the cost of a house... It is a large committment.

I am sure it is possible, however it must be a chapter that bleeds southern tradition. One that the PNMs mother was possibly in at LSU, MSU, Southern Miss, UT, UA, UAL or AU. Most of those chapters are represented on campus already. You also have to think about the cost of a house... It is a large committment.

Part of me thinks that the only successful way to colonize at Ole Miss is to have a mass transfer of selected current. top drawer ABC actives to Ole Miss, then colonize from there.

Possibly the most negative thing you'll ever me say about Alpha Delta Pi is that I will NEVER understand why they built a fairly modern chapter house at Ole Miss! It was shooting themselves in the foot with a bazooka! Ole Miss is Deep South values personified - tradition, tradition, tradition!

Yes. Many of these girls who go through recruitment at Ole Miss have known since they were in elementary school what sorority they want to join. It is because their mothers, grandmothers, sister, cousin, aunt, etc. were in this sorority. Because of this, a new sorority at Ole Miss must have a deep-rooted Southern heritage. The only sororities that are not currently on the Ole Miss campus that are considered big southern sororities are ZTA and ADPi. That brings us back to square one. Southern ladies would not join a chapter that has closed within the last few years; they would not want to be associated with that.

In other words, girls at Ole Miss would rather be in no sorority than the "wrong" sorority. If a dyed in the wool Pennsylvanian like me can figure this out it's a no brainer!

Oh well.

So, maybe this is a question we should just leave as is?

The specific culture at Ole Miss, although in theory expansion would be a good idea, would not foster the addition of another chapter. For better or for worse, the reliance on Southern tradition dictates that only a few organizations that are not already there would have a fighting change; even so, a large financial outlay would have to be made immediately.

I'm with 33 when I say oh well. L

Let's not beat this dead horse any longer.

As chapter adviser for AOII here at Ole Miss, I think that we are fine without another chapter currently. We need to work on our Greek and Panhellenic Relations first and then consider another chapter of a GLO. Yes, it would be hard without a house due to lack of land near other houses, but it could happen. I think without a house a new or pre-existing GLO, who has left in the past, could succeed if they marketed themselves to PNMs who perhaps cannot afford high dues. That is just my thought. I attend all of the adviser Panhellenic meetings and I can say that we are not getting a new GLO anytime soon. We are more concerned with other issues and other problems!

I was reading the comments from the link OleMissGlitter posted earlier. (that is, the comments people left the newspaper) It amused me that someone was griping about the fact that 92% of women got bids and it wasn't exclusive enough!! Anywhere else, you would see people moaning over the poor 8% that went bidless and how awful the system was for excluding them.

Just goes to show that this is a whole different animal!

I'm curious. Why does it seem that a chapter has to be at 200+ to be successful in the eyes the university. I guess I come from a different world, but my chapter is steady at 25, but looks at 40 as just too big. (we'd like to sabilize probably at about 35 in the next 5 years)

I guess what i'm wondering is why can't you have a sorority that doesn't fall completely into the 'southern' thing. Is NPC so stigmatized that it has become elitest? or is Ole Miss really that homogenous?

I honestly don't get it, nor do I fathom why you'd join a sorority system that seems so superficial in regards to tradition and reputation etc...

...I guess I really am a mid-westerner at heart, no matter how much I hate this flatness!

**edited cause i forgot to proof read and it wasn't what i meant.

This isn't coming from NPC or the national, this is coming from the Ole Miss student body. Chi O, Phi Mu etc certainly don't expect their chapters in PA to have 250 people. But they know if they don't have that amount at Ole Miss, the chapter will be looked on as not strong.

I'm sure there are some women from northern chapters on their national councils that feel the same way about it as you do...but at this school it's just the way things are, and to have a chapter there you have to accept it.

---by Little E

Little E, none of of the Chapters here are elitest and non-traditional. They each have rituals, chapter meetings, etc and they succeed in what they do, they just do it in a larger number.

You must realize that Ole Miss is based on traditions and these are traditions with a capital T. You have to look at the University of Mississippi as a whole. We have two sororities that are 100 years old, Chi Chapter of Tri Delta will be 100 in 2004 and Tau Chapter of Chi Omega was 100 in 1897; with the majority of our chapter being at least 40 years old or older, we have traditions that go far back into some families. In the state of Mississippi there are many universities but Ole Miss is the oldest and the first, 1848. Therefore, many Mississippians come here to continue their family's name and to continue their Greek heritages. (We also have many fraternities that are 100+ years old)

Each sorority might have 180+ members(some with over 200), but each carries out their sorority's ideals and reasons for existence with beauty, charm, intelligence, grace, and pride. At AOII, we have 190 members but we get to know our New Members as well as possible through our rituals, sisterhood events, and just hanging out at our house. All 9 of our wonderful sororities engage their new members and bring forth a feeling of sisterhood and love to their new members and members.
Yes, Tri Delta and Chi Omega might have been around for 100 years on our campus and AOII has only been here for 45 but we all still practice our rituals weekly, prepare our members to be the best they can be, and we are ALL very charitable. Just because we have 9 houses with an average of 190 members per chapter, does not mean we are fake, pretentious, not good members of our sorority, etc.


www.olemiss.edu

PS check our this former thread to find out how old are chapters are:
http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...5&pagenumber=2

Much of what you say is true. Its also true that less than 50% of women at Ole Miss go greek. Top flight women, who don't join a sorority can be found. Just go into the fraternities and ask the men. It really is that simple, provided that you have top flight recruiters.

This is the part that I think seems the most strange to me. I don't mean to diminish any of the chapters, I don't know them and cannot judge them, but this place really sounds like mars to me. I'm really sorry if my comments came off that way ( though i did edit afterwards to make sure that they were more what i meant)

But I still don't understand why all chapters have to be the same size. I understand a lot of women want to carry on family tradition, but aren't there women at Ole Miss who don't fit into the current system who might be better served by an NPC that was smaller and perhaps not so 'southern tradition'? It just seems like when you have something so steeped in tradition you automatically discount many women who may not have been 'right' (as determined by either the PNM or chapter) enough for membership in the major established orgs. I can understand if this group doesn't exist. But the image presented here make ole miss seem very homogenous.

I sort of agree with Russel here. There really is nothing that is impossible. Its just a matter of finding a way to do it. (and if any sorority wanted to pay me a consulting fee I would do it for them lol).

What I seem to be reading in this thread is that the traditional approach sororities have to a "Cold Start" won't work.

Having studied the way sororities and fraternities recruit I see the same problems, if the people don't come to us we really aren't that great at getting numbers to join. In effect: we don't recruit, we Rush. Despite all cute PC name changes.

I think we have been overly focused on the problems in this thread rather than the solutions. PErhaps we just aren't motivated enough.

Imagine someone was going to shoot you in the back of the head if you failed to come up with a successful plan to colonize a new NPC group at Old Miss. Do you think you could then? Or would you still deem it impossible?

Some quick questions.

Old Miss is 50% Greek?
Has 9 NPC groups?
Has first semester freshman Rush?

With thse elements it shouldn't be near impossible to at least place a 200 member starting group just based on sophomores juniors and seniors.

So stop telling us what you can't do, tell us how you could do. ;)

same size sororities
 

>>>But I still don't understand why all chapters have to be the same size. <<<

Sorry to hijack this thread, but Little E, please clarify something for me. Is there more than one NPC sorority on your campus? If there is, surely there is a campus total that all of those groups aim for. This is not a concept particular to Ole Miss, or to the "Southern Rush" that there is so much talk about lately on GC. On just about all campuses where there is a Panhellenic Council, there is an established quota and total. To remain below total is usually not good for the health of a chapter in the long run.
If you are on a campus where you are the only group, then I can understand why you don't have to be concerned about total.

Just mention that the chaper is endorsed by moe.ron, and it'll be the #1 chapter in about 2 hours.

My school could be the problem causing me just not fathom the world of Ole Miss. AST is the only national. We have a local that was started in 1896, then went DG for about 40 years till they had their charter pulled. We also have year old local that is requesting presentations as we speak.

So what is the rational for all chapter having to be the same size. I understand the equality thing. But people mention here all the time that there are small chapters in their system that are perfectly happy at a lower number than other groups, and still recieve enough support from their nat'l to continue in such a fashion.

I ditto this.

But I also think that, as men (and you, James, as a northern man), you shouldn't make too many assumptions on what sorority rush at an extremely competitive, traditional Southern school. If not run exactly right, there will be a lot of bitching from the other sorority women on campus and from alums that the new sorority doesn't have enough respect for tradition, that the girls in the new sorority aren't _______ enough (whether or not this is true is irrelevant, their reputation will get the better of them whether or not it is true), etc.

You're looking at sororities from a fraternity man perspective, which makes sense for a lot of northern or smaller schools. You assume that if the girls are pretty and fun and nice enough, they will be popular with the fraternities, which will ensure numbers success. It seems very clear to me, even as a northerner, that in the south this is not the case. You could very easily get many of the most beautiful and intelligent and nice GDIs on campus to join the sorority, and that would work . . . at first. But in rush the next year, the majority of typical Southern rushees (who seem to value reputation above all) would dismiss the new sorority as not traditional enough. Which means the new sorority would become dependent on non-traditional rushees and non-traditional methods of rush, which is basically equivalent to death at large Southern Greek schools. Winning over the fraternities and maybe the GDIs is not enough -- in the South you also have to win over the other sorority women on campus and the alums in the area, which would not happen if you are not making quota during rush. And you will not make quota during rush if you haven't got the respect of other sorority women on campus and the alums in the area. So it's a catch-22.

Perhaps the new sorority could survive this way, dependent on COB and non-traditional rushees, but they would probably never become a "successful chapter" at Ole Miss.

I agree with you that I certainly don't think expansion would be impossible. I think it would certainly be possible with ADPi or ZTA, even despite past failures. But it would have to be undertaken very, very carefully, watched over very, very carefully in its formative years, and would have to be strong from the get-go. If you can't get 200 amazing women to form the colony to start with, don't bother. Ditto on an antebellum sorority mansion and a sorority with a strong Southern rep.

Saying "It can't be done" is usually the prelude to a self-fulfilling prophecy. I challenge anyone to read The Art of War by Sun Tzu and then post here that it can't be done. The barrier to entry is high, but not insurmountable.

Kappa Alpha Theta chartered, for the first time, at Ole Miss in 1979. What has changed at Ole Miss in the last 24 years that now makes it impossible to colonize successfully?

I don't think that the problem is people not understanding Ole Miss, I think that there is a two part problem to the dearth of proposed solutions; Ole Miss greeks with no other greek experience, and non-Ole Miss greeks who are shocked at how extreme the Ole Miss environment is. The solution is there. Theta found it 24 years ago.

Sorry about that -- I had forgotten that ZTA's closing was so recent, so I agree with you in that respect.

But if ADPi's closing was not, I still think that they are an option.

* Edited to add:

In re-reading the thread: ADPi's closing also seems a little recent for a successful re-establishment. Perhaps in a few more years it would work out. DZ is still a possibility in a few years but right now they have other large colonizations to work with. You mentioned AXO -- what about them? I know they don't have the stereotypically strong "Southern" roots of ADPi or ZTA, but neither are they weak in the South. They remind me of Theta in that regard.

sugar and spice made a lot of the points I was thinking of...

Could you keep an NPC chapter running with a non-traditional housing situation and non-traditional type women and a non-traditional rush? By success, I mean could you break even, have enough women to run chapter business (IMO, 50 is plenty, and there could probably be more) and keep the interest up year after year? I don't know, that depends on how many people enter the school who would embrace that concept.

But I have the sneaking suspicion that if you are of that sort of non-traditional bent, your butt isn't going anywhere near Ole Miss. And how many people would want to be in an NPC sorority that would not give you the Ole Miss NPC experience.

So could the chapter successfully function? Yes, I think so. Would they be on a par with the other chapters? No. Would a national sorority want to be the "wannabes" of the Ole Miss system? Probably not.

What's changed is that Ole Miss has had 24 years to build up a reputation as a school that is not friendly to establishing new sororities. PNMs, sorority women, fraternity men, GDIs and alums have all had 24 years to get it into their head that Ole Miss has had ONE successful sorority colonization in the past 45 or so years. When Theta colonized that was not the case.

The longer a campus goes without successful colonization, the longer people have to start believing in the myth that this can't be done. And yes, this is a self-fulfilling prophesy. But those familiar with the LSU "Alpha curse" will understand how it works. In order to undo the self-fulfilling part of the prophesy, you will have to change the minds of the majority of the sorority women, PNMs and alums in the area before you can attempt colonization, and that will be tough. Not impossible, but tough.