What good news... I'm so happy for you! :)

Hopefully, this situation will be resolved soon. Best of luck!

It really sucks that you found out how much people liked you the *hard* way, but I think it's fair to say that you've made quite an impression, and therefore rock. :)

Crossin' my fingers for ya.

The Final Encore
 

OK, folks, the word came in tonight.

Long story short, there was some argument from within the chapter whether they were in favor of AI at all or not. FYI, there was NO indication to me that there was any kind of conflict over anything. And **if** I am permitted to pursue this org again, I have to wait YEARS. One year took enough out of my psyche. So like I said earlier, the journey has come to an end.

As I promised way back when, here is my entire AI journey story, with names included.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once I learned that AI was even a possibility, I went back to square one and researched every woman’s GLO I could find. I clarified specifically for myself what I wanted in an org, and what I wanted to contribute. I came up with this:
1) An organization with structured collegiate AND alumnae involvement, so there could be a chance, now and in the future to mentor young people in college. (I’m really big on teaching, always have been.)
2) An org with alumnae already established in the area. Alumnae are the people I’m going to be working, identifying, supporting, and networking with. Therefore, I figured it would be frustrating to be initiated into an org if there are few to no other alums in the area.
3) A national philanthropy I could relate to personally. This is pretty broad but socializing is only one aspect of the sisterhood I was looking for—making a positive difference in your community is (IMHO) essential to any public org.

It was a struggle to pick just ONE org to pursue, especially because I could identify with something in each org. But eventually I settled on Delta Delta Delta to pursue first. TriDelta’s philanthropy is children’s cancer research, literally right up my alley. They also have chapters (collegiate and alum) reasonably close. And I couldn’t help but be attracted to an org founded by fellow Boston U students. ;)
With CP2K’s help, I drafted an introductory letter and sent it to national. Within a couple of days I received a wonderful email from a national coordinator who told me the name of a local alum chapter prez. We talked on the phone, even, to discuss the process, exchange some information—and learned that the prez would be contacting me. Given that it was the end of the year (2002) and that meant holidays and Founders’ Day, I didn’t expect a response on the spot. Finally, in February I sent a polite “reminder” email that I had not heard anything yet. That month brought a cheerful phone call from the local alum prez. It was a blast; we knew some of the same people, had similar interests and I thought we were off to a great start. She promised to round up some other alums to have lunch and “get to know” each other. (Let’s be real, this is an interview, but I knew and expected that.) We kept the month of March open for this.

March came and went.

And then all of my phone calls went unanswered. So did my emails. Even to the contact I made at national.

Absoultely nothing, for MONTHS of patient waiting. Now I may be naïve in some things but I do know when to take a hint. DDD was not to be my home and it was time to move on.

For all of you alums and future alums out there: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!! Getting ignored is insulting to the PNAM and reflects badly on your org!!! It is entirely possible that I made a poor impression at some point. Or maybe the chapter wasn’t in favor of AI. Or maybe she didn’t like someone I was close to. I’ll never know, because no one ever told me.

----

OK, moving on to GLO number 2, Gamma Phi Beta. Again, met the criteria I set for myself: philanthropy is camping for girls, another activity very close to my heart. Same process, contact national, state my intentions, and ask who to contact. Now these people are on the ball! Had several possible groups for me to talk to within 24 hours, and a request that I contact them again if they don’t write back. Another 24 hours and I had an email back from the prez of the nearest alum chapter with an invitation to their upcoming dinner party.

This dinner party was the first chance I had to see an alum group in action. Very welcoming group, and gracious to this new visitor. This was the first time I saw the depth of the sisterhood bonds—spanning across nations and generations and the differences did not separate them. The youngest there was in her 20s, the oldest over 80! The defining moment, where I felt I could truly understand what a lifelong sisterhood was, was when they sang their grace before dinner. All of these women, from all over the USA, with a 60-year age span, all knew the same song. Each one learned it in a different time and place, and attached different memories to it, yet it still meant the same thing. It’s hard to explain but that moment crystallized what I was pursuing in my mind.

I didn’t think it went too badly for an initial visit. In fact, it didn’t go badly at all. But…as incredible as it sounds, there was no big mental “click” that let you know that this would be the place to settle in. I can’t put my finger on what was missing, but I didn’t’ feel I could try to put roots down until I had looked at other orgs I was interested in. After the summer was over, I hadn’t heard back from them. Maybe they felt the same way. But in this case, I got a fair first-shot and everything about my inquiry was handled promptly and with dignity. Absolutely nothing negative here.

----

Another GLO I wanted to meet was Kappa Alpha Theta. Both of my sisters-in-law (who are essentially sisters to me except that we have different parents) became members in college and they made it REALLY clear that if I wanted to pursue Theta, they would pave the way. I didn’t know much about them until my SILs directed me to their website and shared their own experiences with me. I was surprised to learn how active they are in my area and their support of CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocates). Another issue I have experience with and a love for.

My younger SIL put in a phone call to a buddy of hers at the national office to inquire on my behalf. You have to know Cindy to know when this woman wants something done it would take a nuclear explosion to distract her. The national officer, however, discouraged her from putting me through the AI gauntlet w/ Theta. It seems that Theta is one of those orgs that is on the “closed” end of the spectrum when it comes to AI. (Not making a judgment on whether that’s good or bad, just saying that’s the way it is.) According to my SIL, their criteria for AI came down to the following:
--a faculty member or wife thereof of a college/university
--someone from a colony that was chartered as Theta after she graduated
--when there isn’t enough alumna support in the area
--a celebrity

In my case, I happened to live in a city with one of the strongest Theta alum chapters in the org, so they didn’t “need” to AI me. I never ended up meeting the chapter. To Cindy, that was enough of a nuclear explosion to throw her off the scent. I wasn’t happy about that, but I greatly respected the fact that they were very up-front about their policies and didn’t mince words or mislead me, even inadvertently.

----

The last org was a surprise even to me. Around April-ish of this year, there were a few threads running about why post-collegiate women are interested in Greek life. I posted on a couple of those, hinting at some of the very personal things I put in my introduction letters. I received a PM from someone I now consider one of my bestest buddies asking if I would consider her meeting her org, as she thought there would be a good match there. I’m thinking, “hey, sure, what could it hurt?” I sent my intro letter to her colleague who had quite a bit of experience with AI. Time for another meeting with a new group.

Do you know how it is, when you come home from work, you drop your briefcase, kick off your shoes, pick up the mail, and grab something out of the fridge, without even thinking about the actions because you are so accustomed to your home you don’t have to put any effort into it? That is what this meeting was like! Being in this stranger’s home with 3 dozen new women was like walking into my own home with people I’ve known forever.

CLICK!

Everyone there was positive about AI, even if they were just hearing of it. At the end of the night my new friend who escorted me to the meeting fielded all of my questions and asked me to contact her if I wanted to go forward with the process, acknowledging that I had been exploring several orgs looking for the right fit. I decided to go ahead and process the paperwork. Summer passed, and the pursuit continued into September.

Unfortunately, you know the rest of this story as well. What was originally received very positively by the chapter, and even by at least one member of EO, was shot in the foot by a regional officer due to some conflicts within the chapter that I am still not clear on.

This was Delta Gamma.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beating a dead horse: I'm dead tired, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, the works. I haven't felt like this since I split up with my first serious boyfriend--after we had talked about marriage, our parents had met, etc. I don't have the energy - the guts - to do this again.

As time passes, that may change. I just dont' see it at the moment. It's humiliating to get THAT many rejections over that amount of time. I'd wear myself out if I got into the "what's WRONG with me?" thinking. If an org came to me to meet them, that would be doable, but we know that isn't necessarily a reasonable expectation. I do want the bonding that only a GLO can provide. I just don't want the process that goes with it. I feel like I've been hazed.

Again--thanks everyone. I honestly mean it. I really will get to all of those PMs, I promise. And I will still promote Greek life in whatever humble way I can. (Just this past Thursday evening I got into a conversation with a kid from the Boston U development office--I told her that every day I wish I went Greek and if she still has the chance to not let it go by!)

We'll see what happens as time goes by. I'm not going anywhere, just in low gear. Feel free to PM or email.

{{{GC}}}
Adrienne

wow.

I'm sorry, A. I really am.

I'm also not convinced this is the last chapter....

I think HotDamnImAPhiMu took the words right out of my mouth.


:(


<PNAM Hugs>


.....Kelly :(

Hey kittyuk, maybe we can make Adrienne a member of LBS?

:p


.....Kelly :)

Frustration and depression is like the Sun going down in the Western Sky!

Hope Springs Eternal as the Sun Comes up in the East.

While your travels have proved fruitless so far, never give up Hope.

As has been said, AI is such a new thing to many Greek Organizations and hard to comprehend for that who have only seen Recruitment at the Collegiate Level!

Just take a break for a bit and a second breath, count to 10 and dont give up Hope! :)

adrienne,

thank you for sharing your story with us. i know that your road was long and difficult. if i were in the same situation, i would definately take a break from pursuing ai. give yourself time to heal and then who knows what will happen. i am truly sorry that you have been through so many ups and downs.

Adrienne,

You know all too well how I feel about this. I feel as if we've shared the pursuit of Alumna Initiation together, even though we researched different groups. You are a phenomenal woman - and whatever charitable/social organization you decide to devote your time and talents to will be made richer for it. You should be commended for your resillience, openness, and tenacity. It speaks volumes to the kind of woman you truly are.

To All the Sorority Women on GC:

If your organization does not have a standardized, carved in black-and-white policy on Alumna Initiation - fight for one. We alumna initiates know all too well that the process can vary from city to city -- hell, it can vary from initiation to initiation! We know and understand the NPC policy on mutual selection. But I get the feeling that the membership process for collegians is more firmly structured than it is for alumna initiates. This lack of structure and inconsistency is frustrating for the PNAM and for her sponsor. It shouldn't have to be this way.

Take the time to educate your members on alumna initiation. If you are a collegian, bring it up in your chapter meetings. If you are an alumna, bring it up at alumna events.

If you are an alumna initiate - let everyone know WITH PRIDE that you are an alumna initiate of your organization! In a way, it's kind of like coming out of the closet for gay people - people are more tolerant and less ignorant of things when they know someone personally who has gone through the process.

My heart is breaking for Adrienne right now, as I'm sure are all of yours. We always tell PNMs that things happen for a reason, and maybe this happened for a reason - maybe there's something greater out there for you that's waiting just over the horizon. Good luck to you - and know that we are always here for you, no matter what.

Adrienne,

Thank you for sharing your story with us.

I scarcely know what to say. You've been through a lot in your pursuit of AI. Maybe the best thing for you to do is take a step back and regroup. Don't close the door entirely! There are still 22 more NPC groups out there (well, 21 since AEPhi doesn't do AI), or maybe a non-NPC group is right for you.

Take care. :)

First I'd just like to say that I'm sorry, Adrienne...it sounds like you've been to Hell and back on the scenic route, and I'm really impressed that you've kept your positive outlook on Greek life. Thank you.

However...this makes me wonder. What would happen if a collegiate PNM was treated like this (i.e. made to think that she would likely be initiated into an organization when that wasn't the case)? Now, I'm not faulting the individual organizations, since a number of factors could've been working behind the scenes and it seems that not a lot of people are really familiar with how AI works. But I do think it's sad that alumnae initiates aren't given more respect, because I think AI is a good thing.

Thanx, Sistermadly. I agree the NPC as a whole has a lot to learn about AI and I think the first place they should go for their lesson is the NPHC.

But in addition to the points you made in your post, there's also the issue of enforcement, if that's the word. In my situation, while most people I met were in favor of my induction, there were allegedly a select few who chose to circumvent the (extremely well-publicised) processes and standards for their own agendas. My potential contributions to the fraternity and my feelings were not an issue for them.

In addition to setting policy and guidelines, it's also a matter of changing hearts.

Adrienne

Sigh...
 

I am just heart broken reading your thread, but I just wanted to encourage you, please don't give up. Take some time to clear your head, as you have been saying, but please don't give up.

I am so sorry. Please know that the crew on GC is here for you.

This just makes me so sad, and I agree that NPC groups do have alot to learn about AI. Even in my own organization, I hear about drastically different attitudes on the subject. I pledged in a community that LOVED alum initiates (DZ & Alpha Gam constantly initiated women from the community), and even today, I am sponsoring 2 women for AI, in a town that doesn't have a collegiate chapter. But I've heard of alum chapters in towns with established groups & collegiate chapters that aren't so open-minded about it...women who have trouble understanding why anyone would want to be initiated as an alum.... I am often surprised by the number of times we've discussed this on Surfing Sisters where someone will mention they're sponsoring someone, and people will post that they've never even heard of the possibility of AI.

I guess its just going to take some more time...even for those orgs that strongly encourage AI, to make it more mainstream & less unusual.

Adrienne-you have put so much energy into your search--I can't even come close to knowing how this has made you feel...and I can't speak for everyone, I've never met you, but your diligence is commendable. Keep your chin up, take a deep breath. We're here for you!

:(
 

Adrienne I had so wished to call you my sister and all of this still leaves me feeling :confused: :eek: but mostly :( X 10. I wish all of this would have worked out. :(

Re: Sigh...
 

Adrienne, I just want to echo what was said here. My heart is sad for you-take some time for yourself to heal and recouperate-but you would be such an asset, please don't give up!!

Re: The Final Encore
 

Hi.

Re: Re: The Final Encore
 

Hey.

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433...2/68134491.jpg

That link doesn't work, there's an "L" in front of it. :)

Here's the link - http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=48423

you also may want to look at
this thread

Yes, after shopping around at several other GLOs, she was offered membership in a GLO she hadn't even considered. Sounds a lot like AI for the sake of AI to me.

If that is the way you want to view it...is your prerogative.

Personally, I don’t see it that way. A member of a GLO after some time and heartbreak, Pm’ed her with an opportunity that I think most would explore, I am sure they knew her situation. It looks like she fit with the AC and the rest is history. AI is about getting into that organization, but its also about fitting in WITH THE ALUMNAE CHAPTER, no matter how much you know that a GLO is for you, if you don’t fit with the AC you are not going to be offered the opportunity to pursue AI in that org. PERIOD.

Am not going to argue the point, I keep repeating myself. As much as AI and new member recruitment is not the same, in a lot of ways it is the same. I see nothing wrong with looking around and finding the group that fits you and the group believing that the potential AI fits them. She made a list, unless you know 100% that her org is not on that list, you can’t say…AI for the sake of AI, that is an insult to her, me and a lot of AIs and potential AIs.

Untilyou walk a mile in someone’s shoes, you can not say you know what they’ve gone through.

We can also agree to disagree.

Yes, but, isn't that how it ends up for a lot of AIs? For example, when we installed our colony as a chapter at Greensboro College, we initiated some faculty members as they would become advisors. AFAIK, these women had not previously considered joining a sorority, and the opportunity was dropped in their lap.

I don't know if they had previously looked into AI with AXiD or even with someone else, and quite frankly, I really don't care. What matters is that they are now my sisters and they are volunteering their time to the sorority, which is more than I can say for the rest of the girls in my own pledge class who, after only four days of looking at the five other sororities on our campus, chose Alpha Xi. It's obvious that unless an unexpected invitation is extended to an AI, some women have spent years pursuing the group they want.

We constantly remind our PNMs that it's a mutual selection process. Well, I think it's safe to say the same holds true for our AIs.

To everyone who is against "sorority shopping" -- in your opinion, how many groups is too many to look at when searching? Should our AIs only pick one group to pursue, and if it doesn't work out, so be it?

Thank you, ms_gwyn.

I've been MIA for a few months now due to pregnancy and other life issues (including holding a new office in my AC). I only noticed the recent AI drama when I got an automated email notice that people were adding to this thread.

You're right, there is a lot of insulting in those latest posts. But insulting AIs (including me) is just the tip of the iceberg.

Valkyrie et al are also insulting:

• sageofages - Pam Backstrom, a former national chairman who had investigated me quite thoroughly before asking me to consider Phi Mu. She was also my guide through initiation.
• Both the Alpha Pi and Theta Zeta collegiate chapters of Phi Mu. Both of which were willing to sponsor me. (Please read the "A New Hope" thread for the reason why this process began in one city and ended up in another.
• Both the Houston and Greater North Fulton alumnae chapters who were willing to sponsor me for membership.
  All of the above knew the details of this pursuit, including in these posts, and all of them had met me in person.

And most of all, they are insulting.....

• The National Council of Phi Mu who ultimately made the decision to issue my bid.

That's a lot of insults to lob around at people you've never met, or even PM'ed! (No, none of these people approached me with their issues. Suprised? I'm not.) The two eldest individuals involved in this little tempest in a toilet bowl are both Alpha Phi AIs. I wonder what part of the Alpha Phi creed this behaviour falls under?

So if there are any PHI MUs who doubt my sincerity as a sister and the process that got me there I'll be at the new HQ dedication at the end of September. Feel free to cross-examine me to your hearts' content. As the content of these posts confirm, I've never had anything to hide. I don't need to rely on e-courage to make my point.

Now since my OB has advised me to lay off the stress, I'm out of here. Those who know me know how to contact me.

Adrienne Duncan
President, Greater North Fulton Alumnae of Phi Mu
www.northfultonphimu.com

The example you provided with faculty members being initiated is nothing like what we see here on GC. And I'm not insinuating that AIs can't be valuable, hardworking members of the sorority. I personally am very proud of the AI DGs that I've met on GC. Hell I'm proud of a lot of the AI women on GC.

I guess it seems that some bad apples are spoiling the bunch, perhaps? We see lots and lots of women who research, use the correct avenues, and use our favorite buzzword - discretion. But not all are like that and I think that's what has been bothering a lot of GCers about the AI forum.

In response to your question: "Should our AIs only pick one group to pursue, and if it doesn't work out, so be it?" There is nothing stopping a woman from persuing AI at a later time with that org. If you loved basketball, if it was your favorite game and basketball was in your heart but you got cut from the team, would you suddenly take up cheerleading? No, you'd work on your game in the off season and come back for try-outs next year.

Actually being contacted by the org and invited to meet the women is EXACTLY how AI is supposed to work in an ideal situation (which nothing is ever ideal). That is the preferred method.

It would be a little different (at least for me personally) if the woman contacting her had been part of a group who had already said no, but I doubt this is the case.

Ok, here is how I would recommend someone approach AI who is looking at it without an inside "pull". That is without knowing someone already in the group.

1) You research all 26 of the organizations and narrow it down to the few (4 or 5) that have values that mirror yours or speak to you.

2) Determine if those groups do AI. If it's a group where AI is VERY rare and you don't personally know a member of the group then I wouldn't waste the time.

3) You find out if those orgs have alumnae chapters near you. If they don't, then what's the point.

4) Get the contact info for those groups and contact them. Develop a list of questions that will help you further narrow the groups.

5) Attend an event if possible, but don't waste their time if you are still undecided.

6) Find the ONE that you want and devote time to that group getting to know them.

My AC requires our AI's to attend a number of our events to show their commitment. If that woman is doing the same for a number of groups, she's going to be VERY busy.

Maybe it's b/c I haven't been on GC as long as some others, but other than mshoole (who we don't even know if she ever WAS initiated), but I haven't seen any "bad apples." Who are they?

A very good explanation.

It does and can happen.:)

To may proof of the puddings on GC!

She was not.

Thank you for providing me with a way to clear that up without my being unnecessarily mean. :)

Don't worry. She has a history of insulting others and making false claims. She has put down GC before and is a pro at playing the victim.

-Rudey

Hold up.

HOLD. UP.

Adrienne, you know I consider you a friend an ally, and I held your hand through a lot of the stuff that happened prior to your becoming a Phi Mu. But you were TOTALLY out of line by questioning the Alpha Phi Creed. What is in that Creed and whether or not members of my Fraternity live up to that is none of your concern.

I understand that your feelings were hurt. I get that. But as I said in a message to you earlier, the actions of individuals should, in NO way, reflect on the mission, policies, and procedures of Alpha Phi International Fraternity.

Damn. Don't go stepping on my crest, and I won't go stepping on yours.

Valkyrie just bumped your thread,she didn't write it. People are going to see perceive it how they want to perceive it good or bad. That is totally beyond your control. Looking at the replies directly after she bumped it,there were two totally different interpretations. Aries just provided a correct link to a totally different thread.

Neither of these instances gives you any right to question the creed of my organization and whether or not any individual member lives up to it.

Wow. Never have two little words accomplished so much insulting!

you open this can of worms

Now the above quote that you posted was a thank you to me and also a response to the person that I qouted (in terms of the word insult).

I BROUGHT the word insult in the picture, not directed at you, because you never clearly stated your pointed bumping of this thread. The intention is clear (but I could be mistaken). I understand why mshoole (or whatever) link was posted, but WHY was this thread bumped in the first place?

I will not speak for adrienne as I am not her and I hope she doesn't stress too much over this getting real ugly real quick. But the assumption made was uncalled for especially when if you read the other like that I posted.

I for one would love to hear your story of AI, if its in a thread, I would love the link.

(not directed at you personally, because I don't go after people, I go after posts)

But a lot of people have become very self-righteous in the context of this discussion (AI) and I have noticed it mostly coming from AIs, I would love to read your stories (I have read 1 that I know of off the top of my head).

You go after posts? So are you saying you'd like to hear my post's AI story?

ETA: You're right. I didn't state my intent when bumping this thread. So what? I'm not obligated to explain why I do anything. If people want to read into that and ASSUME things, they're welcome to do so.

In all honesty?

Yes, I love to hear how women found their home....is there anything wrong with that.....

but you still didn't answer my original question...I would also like that answered too.


In any of my posts in pertaining to this entire AI discussion, have I attacked anyone? If I have, I will admit that I am wrong, I have no problem doing that.

Also if you'd rather take it to PM's that is fine.

It doesn't need to continue in this thread....

Wait. You're asking me a question that you want answered, but then say it doesn't need to continue in this thread? I wouldn't rather take it to PMs because I have no reason to answer your question in the first place. Why do you care why I bumped this thread? Why do you think I owe you an explanation? I'm really not trying to be snotty -- I just don't understand why it matters to anyone. Are you over in the D&R forum asking James why he bumped about 900 threads the other day?

no...but that thread is silly and humorous


With all the hoopla going on in this forum...I know there is a reason and I suspect WHY you did this....I find it really strange that you don't want to be honest and answer a question that caused a lot of stress on the creator of this thread.

But again that is your prerogative.

And the reason why I wanted this go to PMs because there really is no reason for this discussion to continue in a long dead thread that should not have been resurrected in the first place.

And I was also being sincere with wanting to hear your story, I have no ulterior motives in wanting to hear how you found your place in the wonderful sisterhood of Alpha Phi.

Oh and you're correct that you don't owe me an explanation. You owe that to adrienne. You can do that publically or privately. That is up to you.