I think that they were trying to say that she left for rather banal reasons ($$) rather than a Big Moral Statement.

I agree...I don't think that people in the north "hide it better" There are african american members of some of the sororities at my school and it is totally a non-issue. I cannot believe that this is such a big issue at that school, so for a person from the south to say that racism isnt any more prevalent in the south than the north is just joking themselves. I am just glad i am from a place where people are accepted for who they are!!!

This thread looks like *almost* like a rehashing of the Civil War and the sixties. We'd all like to think that we all lived in a perfect little world wherever we live. Unfortunately, this is not true. I wish it was, but how to obtain the perfect world would be argued and rehashed over and over again. That's good because that's the beauty of America. We have the right to argue about issues. But, to tell you the truth, much of the Southern states have moved on from their racial divides. I am not denying there have not been times when racial issues haven't come up, but they come up everywhere around the United States. It's nationwide, not just a regional atrocity.

I live in South Carolina and went to a high school that had 1200 students where maybe 2 or 3 students were hispanic and approximately 30 black students. The rest of the students were white. I lived in a community which the houses were fairly expensive (i.e. minimum $100,000 houses). Even the older houses were considered top dog houses because of how well the owners kept them up. Most people drove around in brand new cars whether they were a Chevrolet, Ford, Mercedes, or BMW, etc.

When I went to college, my first experiences were, yes, a culture shock with so many people from different races, etc. I truly believe, correct me if I am wrong, a lot of college freshmen that are fresh out of high school and haven't lived a very extensive life are, indeed, in culture shock. There are some older adults who've experienced culture shock in recent years.

Keep up the arguments! Remember this is our American right!
;)

I agree... even if the writer of that particular comment was trying to make a point that she didn't leave for a "Big Moral Statement" she could have said something like 'she left for reasons other than alleged recruitment proceedures" or something!

I'm not sure it was appropriate for a former member to make up lies about my sorority.

well, all i know is i went to college in georgia where all-white sororities existed on my campus
when i walked through the rush doors of several 'top' sororities, i heard gasps like they weren't expecting me to be black
first, i had letters from 3 sororities that most of my family members belong to
i had one of the highest GPAs of every rush class
i was already doing volunteer work at one of the sororities philanthropies
the first day, i was cut by all but 2 sororities
and the next day, after the rush parties i told my rush counselor that i was dropping out
when she came back from telling the director, they all came to my room because i didn't get invited back anyway
and they wanted to make sure that 'i was okay with that'

i know that i didn't get in because of the whole race thing
my plan was to go to a northern school, get in one of the sororities that was on that campus, and go back down there and say 'hey, remember me?'
but i didn't
i figured that they weren't worth my time anyway

and it's funny to note
i transferred to a northern school and went through rush as a 2nd yr sophomore
my GPA wasn't even that great(i think it was a 3.0)
and all of the sororities were clamouring for me
i did decide to join one but after having a horrifying experience
i dropped out a week before initiation because i couldn't get past the fact that this sorority in the south had dropped me
thank goodness, i found Phi Sigma Sigma

You mean you are black LOL!
Girl, that is more class than most girls at 18 have!

I have a friend, who is black, in another sorority. She went through formal recruitment once and was dropped by all of the sororities. She went through again and received a bid from ADPi. She is the first black lady of that particular ADPi chapter. You know what? She was elected as the executive panhellenic representive the first time she could run for an exec position (which was almost 2 years ago). Do you want to know what position she's finishing her term as of now? PRESIDENT!

I am at a very southern school and this is proof that not all southerners are racist pigs. I know northerners just LOVE poking fun at our so-called "acceptance of racist individuals".

In fact, the racist pigs are INDIVIDUALS of the South, NOT the whole crop of southerners. My friend isn't my "token" black friend. I don't have token friends. Otherwise, they wouldn't be my friends. I have TRUE friends which is more than a lot of people can say whether they are in the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, or West coast.

I'm so glad for you too!!!

Edited, based on Adrienne's sound advice, to remove my own snide and passive-aggressive comments... except for the snide comment above.

Ah, passive-aggression. There are so many ways I can slam that approach I can't pick just one.

A couple of corrections, dear.

Your assumption is wrong, I am not from "the south". I was born and raised in New Jersey where I learned about discrimination by being on the receiving end of it. So there's no misunderstanding, New Jersey is NORTH of the Mason-Dixon line.

I also never said anything about the relative prevalence of racism--I DID say that it happens all over, it is just expressed in different ways. Did you even get to that post before shooting off your own?

I've lived long enough and travelled enough and lived in enough places to know that generalizations about racism and where it occurs have plenty of exceptions. I also know that similar incidents of racism get covered by the press differently depending on where they happen.

It isn't necessary to be snide and passive-aggressive in these discussions.

Adrienne
:rolleyes:

Sugar and Spice, please believe me, as one Southerner on GC, that I take no offense at all when people want to talk about racism in this country in general and in the South in particular. Of course we still have problems, some serious problems, with racism here -- I'd have to be a fool to deny it. And without question, we have a history rife with racism and racial injuctice -- I'd have to be a historical revisionist to deny that.

But what offends me and others, and what often derails these conversations (and, yes, what makes me defensive) is the "holier-than-thou" attitude that we often (not always, but often) hear (read) from those who don't live here -- the "Thank God I live somewhere enlightened and not in the racist South" comments.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that some of us Southerners get way too defensive if the words "racist" and "South" are even used in the same paragraph. I hope I am not one of those people. But frankly I have little patience with the South-bashing types (and I appreciate that you are not one), who in my view are simply making themselves feel better about racial prejudice by replacing it with regional prejudice.

the fact still remains that she was dropped the first time
why does it take 2 and 3 times for black girls to get into sororities?
well, it doesn't matter. . .i was on my executive board within 3 months of my initiation and the next year, i went on to be vice president
i dont want to be president. . .i'm too opinionated and i want my vote to count

and if sororities are so worried about their precious images, tell them to quit playing and dancing to hip hop music at their socials and mixers
because most of that music is made by black people

If I Had My Druthers...
 

I'd much rather deal with the overt brand of discrimination that exists in the South (and this is coming from a Southerner, mind you) than the more benign discrimination that exists in other parts of the country. At least in the South when people don't like you/don't want you, there's no hemming and hawing. You know it, you know how to deal with it (usually by laughing at them) and then you move on.

Oh, and while we're trading anecdotes about the liberalism of the Midwest, let me tell the story of a good friend of mine who, when his family moved to Atlanta from Wisconsin, was told to "be careful in (n-word) town" and "watch your back, keep your doors locked, and stay away from (n-word)."

Playing tit-for-tat gets us nowhere. Racism sucks. Period. That being said, I often wonder if there's any real purpose in threads like this on GC? We all have our firmly entrenched positions, and y'know, it's great to trade them and all, but do you (we) honestly think we're going to convince someone to change his/her mind based on something they read on a message board?

Entertaining is one thing. Connecting through the bonds of sisterhood is quite another, apparently. :rolleyes: But even this is nothing new - think back to the 50s and 60s where white kids could dance to music by black artists on American Bandstand and other shows, but black kids weren't allowed to appear on camera, or if they were, they had special "negro days".

Yeah, they'd be used to ride the subway or to play skee-ball! :D

(Okay, okay, bad attempt at humour. Sue me. :D)

For the 1865th time, nobody means that every single person below the Mason-Dixon line is a racist. We mean that there are generally more individuals down South who let their racist tendencies shine. I think part of this is that the South is much more traditional and conservative than the rest of the nation.*

*Note I did not say this was a bad thing, I did not make fun of it, I made a statement which can be and has been backed up by facts, studies, polls, etc, etc, etc.

I was afraid of this...
I started talking about a sh*t stirrer who ran to the Crimson White and the thread gets hijacked with the North vs South BS. :rolleyes:



I agree with this. And there are some parts of the M-D line that I would not be caught dead in.

ie: Bensonhurst section of NY, South Boston, Northern Idaho (well I am glad that the neo Nazis got kicked out of there)

But those are just 3 places

Now back to the friggin topic!
 

This was posted today in Crimson White
http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v.../3f73ec29751ed

This should shut miss thang up!

International chapter calls allegations false
By Megan Nichols
Senior Staff Reporter
September 26, 2003


Gamma Phi Beta's international headquarters denied Thursday that its UA chapter committed any wrongdoing in the process of accepting a black woman and integrating the Capstone's traditionally white sororities during last month's Rush.

In a press release sent to The Crimson White, Gamma Phi Beta's international headquarters said it inquired into allegations reported in Wednesday's edition of The CW and found them to be false.

Former member Stephanie McGee made the allegations against the sorority. She claimed to have observed abnormal procedures when black freshman Carla Ferguson of Tuscaloosa was offered a bid. McGee said only 10 executives were allowed to vote on Ferguson's bid.

McGee also said she believed Gamma Phi Beta rigged Ferguson's acceptance so it could acquire a spot in the Machine, a select coalition of traditionally white fraternities and sororities designed to influence campus politics.

Repeated efforts to reach McGee for further comment were unsuccessful Thursday.

The international chapter's press release said a collegiate leadership consultant from the international organization was present during all of Gamma Phi Beta's Rush activities.

The consultant confirmed that sorority members followed proper procedure, the release said.

"We followed the voting procedures set forth by our International Rules and Procedures, Carla Ferguson meets and exceeds all of our standards of membership, and we are very proud and happy to have her as a sister in Gamma Phi Beta," said Sunnie Corcoran, president of Gamma Phi Beta's UA chapter, in the press release.

Rebecca Beardslee, director of communications for Gamma Phi Beta's international chapter, said she was unprepared to say whether the collegiate leadership consultant was present at all times during Rush. She declined further comment.

Repeated attempts to reach Panhellenic Association President Heather Schacht for comment were unsuccessful Thursday.

Tim Hebson, assistant dean of students and director of the Office of Student Judicial Affairs, said Thursday the University is not planning an investigation into the allegations surrounding Gamma Phi Beta's Rush.

"[The allegations] are totally not valid, and we've already talked to their international person, the chapter adviser, the members of the sorority, and there is just not any credible evidence to do anything at all," he said.

Hebson said the University would launch an investigation into the matter if any further evidence comes to light.

He said the University would investigate if a student files a complaint with Judicial Affairs, but no complaint has been filed thus far.

"At this point there are no plans at all to investigate the sorority," Hebson said.

Now sis, you know I love you and everything, but if you post a thread that has even a hint of a race-based theme on GC, this is what happens.

My suggestion? Let the whole Bama thing die. The less attention we pay to Carla Ferguson and her new member period, the happier I'm sure she will be. As long as we keep treating integration as a big deal (in 2003, no less) the more people are going to keep treating it as some sort of peculiar anacrhonistic Southern tradition.

ummmm.....

I don't think we (as in GC) are the ones writing a zillion stories about it in the Crimson White. But it's a Greek related story that has been put out there and therefore, we (as in GC) are discussing it and the effect it will have on Greeks nationwide.

I agree with what you are saying, but I think you are telling the wrong people.

I meant the "royal we" - including those muckrakers at the Crimson White. We may not be writing them, but we sure are paying a heck of a lot of attention to something that should not be a big deal in 2003. And trust me, if I were an alumna of the University of Alabama, I would have a lot to say to the people there. But seeing as how I'm not connected to the school in any remote way, what difference does my opinion make? What difference do all of our opinions make? Sound and fury, yes - but in the long run, what significance does it have to greek life on that campus?

I guess I'm just ticked off that Carla Ferguson is being viewed by a lot of people here and at Alabama as "the Black Gamma Phi" rather than just a Gamma Phi. It boggles my mind that in this millennium, this is considered news.

Re: If I Had My Druthers...
 

True... I wish sometimes people would just let me know that they don't like me because I'm black instead of smiling in my face like they are my friends and talk about me behind my back...

I really hate it when it becomes the North vs. the South discussion too. There are A LOT of places I seriously won't go to that are in Michigan(day time or night time)! Actually I can count on one hand how many cities I would even feel comfortable living within Michigan. There is a lot of improve ment that needs to be done EVERYWHERE in America.

Just a question... i'm sure the young lady who was admitted in Gamma Phi Beta at UA is welcomed... however... I wonder how "welcomed" other minorities (not just black) would feel if the number minorities who came out to rush went from one or two to twenty or thirty....

Re: Re: If I Had My Druthers...
 

Then maybe it wouldn't be such a friggin big deal. I did read somewhere that there are Asian-Americans and Latinas in some of the groups at UA. How many, I don't know.

Re: Re: Re: If I Had My Druthers...
 

It might not be a big deal... but from MY experience... It's ok when there are only one or two minorities in certain groups (I'm not just talking about fraternal organizations) but when the number increases from 1% to 20-30%, then people stop being so welcoming...

oh OK, I understand. thanks for clarifying. :)

Re: If I Had My Druthers...
 

I think it's ridiculous to assume that "benign racism" exists only in the North and "hostile overt racism" exists only in the South. I've seen incidents of both all over the United States. One of my African-American teachers said she feared for her life because of her race more in Indiana than any other state she'd taught in. There are plenty of benign racists in the South (and plenty of people who aren't very racist at all!), and there are plenty of hostile racists in the North.

But the fact of the matter is that we aren't seeing nearly as many incidents like this one happen in the North as we are in the South, at least not within the Greek system. Why is that?

The South has race issues. That DOESN'T mean that the rest of the country doesn't.

Well, why dont we all get over this shit, Yes, I did not stutter!:)

We have been through this a lot of times!:(

I am not Racist, hell, I dont like anybody!:mad:

Did any of you know that some one was of a different pigmantation from the name or the Greek Letters? DAHA!

Nope, did you?
Some of the pettiness of color clouds a lot of minds, but why does it have to be on here?:rolleyes: If you do not like my phylosophy, then you too may kiss my Rainbowed ?:cool:

Is there still racisim going on!? Will it still go on? Will We be bigger than it?

If you dont like I am a Honkey Pig, or a Gentile, or a Round Eye, or a what the hell ever, F**Kyou. I am a person who Cares, do you? :confused:

Each and everyones Self Importantance is getting underwhelming!:p

I have been notified by several people that they may drop out of GC. Why, just for this same S**T.. I have been thinking of it also, but why should I let of Bunch of Snakes run me OFF!

YOU EACH MUST MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!

In OR Out!:confused:

You are a guest here, that is all!:)

Re: Re: If I Had My Druthers...
 

Seeing it -- especially from the perspective of an outsider -- is one thing. Living day to day in BOTH regions as a non-white person is quite another.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If you haven't walked in my shoes, you haven't lived my experience (nor have I lived yours). I think it is fair to say that in cases of racism or perceived discrimination, perspective is EVERYTHING.

Oh, and FWIW, I never said that the discrimination that exists in the south is only hostile. One of the most interesting experiences I had was with an old white woman who kept calling me 'gal' -- and couldn't for the life of her figure out why I found it offensive. Did I fly off the handle? No. Did she? No. It was a very genteel exchange - but it was still an overt case of racism.

I've had folks in the South tell me to my face that they don't like coloreds/nigras/blacks. They were as polite as they could be about it - but at least they were up front. These days, I don't sense that kind of willingness to express bigotry from the Northerners I interact with - instead, it comes out in more subtle ways, like saying no more apartments are available when I go to look at a place, but suddenly the place is available when my (non-Black) husband goes to look. That is what I meant by the distinction. I hope it clears it up for you.

White_Chocolate,

I had to go through twice and I am white. :rolleyes: So what was wrong with me?

Maybe they thought you were obnoxious.

He he he

I was the first African-American to pledge AOII at U of Illinois in the Fall of 1985. The local newspaper did a story on me after I initiated. I remember thinking, "I hope this isn't such a big deal 20 years from now." I had the same accusations made by people who were not asked to pledge AOII. They figured that somehow an affirmative-action plan was the reason I got in and they didn't.

But for people who were taught and ignorantly believed their skin color inherently makes them superior to someone, this is the only rationalization their brain can muster. Most people simultaneously believe that "all men are created equal" and "I am better than you because of my (fill in the blank-race, religion, socio-economic background, hair texture, whatever.)


It didn't bother me too much because I grew up in a small town with integrated schools and always had more white friends than black--that was my environment. Pledging AOII didn't surprise anyone who knew me, but for a campus where most people grew up in more homogenous environments, it was different.

Overall I had a GREAT experience and I'm still involved in my alumnae chapter. I knew going into it that it would be an educational experience for a lot of people, myself included.

I really prepared myself emotionally before making the decision--things like the possibility of being ostracized by both black and white greeks, people staring when I wore letters, and well-meaning people making dumb remarks. Then there were social issues--like dates for dances. Finding blacks who were comfortable going to an AOII dance or dating white men. But these weren't new issues--I'd been dealing with them my whole life.

I'm sure this woman thought about or already had been experiencing these things. Anyone who has ever been the "only" in a group is painfully aware they are different. It's a matter of comfort level with that.

Re: Re: Oooooh, I'm mad now!
 

Sugar and Spice, you are DEAD on the money! I followed the story fairly closely when it broke and some of the posts on the Crimson White's website were just FRIGHTENING! I had no idea that such racists losers still existed, let alone considered themselves members of decent society!

My heart goes out to Ms. Ferguson for enduring what must continue to be a difficult situation and the hate inflicted on her by bunch of closed minded a**holes!

I suggest a mixture of one part to one part:

Hater Ade with Pimp Juice!:)

Pimp Juice one may ask?

Born in Kansas City and Bottled in St. Louis!:D

Maybe that will make a better tasting drink?:p

If this story ends up being true, this is quite sad. The sorority that took her should be proud of her. I most certainly hope so. Do you guys know if she's still in the sorority? I might have missed that in the article.

If she is still in, I hope she becomes president of that sorority because she could really shake things up at that school if the story is true.

As I have said earlier, it's a shame Northerners and others like to look at the South as a group in general rather than as individuals. The South has overcome the racial divides it experienced in the 60's and in earlier years. I mean look at Charlotte, NC and Atlanta, GA! You also have Memphis, TN (which brought everyone Elvis, by the way) and Columbia, SC. It's a shame people can't get over something that happened almost 40 years ago (i.e. Civil Rights Movement) or even 150 years ago (i.e. Civil War). They're over and done with! Let's move on!

Excellent point. Folks love to talk about how oppressed black southerners are, but you will find more blacks in positions of political leadership in the South and Southeast than you will in any other part of the United States. I'm not sure I agree that the slavery and the Civil Rights movement are things to be "gotten over", but to say that life is terrible just because black women may or may not be admitted to NPC chapters south of the Mason/Dixon line is kind of a myopic view.

1. The "story" (if you can call someone printing the opinions of a former member of an organization who was not even present for the events she is describing a "story") is not true. Not one bit of it is true, even down to the number of members on the executive board of that chapter.

2. The sorority that "took" her IS very proud of her. Carla is a beautiful and intelligent young lady, as are the other members of her pledge class.

3. She is still in the sorority's new member class. I posted earlier that she will be initiated on October 16, along with the rest of her pledge sisters.

We need to listen to what GammaPhiBabe has to say. She is THERE with that chapter; she knows what happened and what is media-driven crap. We've all seen how one disgruntled member can drag a chapter through the mud for her own reasons (that AGD at UGa a couple of years ago), so some people need to quit believing that just because a paper published something it's true.

Hijacks that ramble off into insults and generalization about the South aren't serving any purpose except making the GC Southerners angry. I don't know one Southern GCer who's anything but thrilled that Gamma Phi pledged Carla--so why do some people feel compelled to keep making comments about racism? We are behind her. Lay off.

Congrats to her!

I don't think anyone isn't listening to GammaPhiBabe. If anything, it seems that most of us dismissed the allegations McGee made as being based on jealousy or ulterior motives (hence the title of the post). There has not been any negative comments against the Gamma Phi chapter. We all know the general ineptitude of most campus newspapers, especially those with a strong anti-Greek bias like the CW.

I don't see any insults or generalizations about the South on this thread, and I was born and raised in the South--so I imagine that I would be pretty sensitive to it. I'm just not overly sensitive to it, and I can see where my home region needs to make some progress. :)