Re: Re: Religion vs. sorority/frat
 

Thank you for making it plain.

My answer was scripture based. I did not inspire or write the scriptures, therefore I did not say that there was something wrong, the scriptures did, you would have to take that up with the author and finisher of those. Do I believe that the Bible is the infalliable Word of God? Yes. Do I strive to live by it? Yes. I am ashamed of that? No.

So if Jesus doesn't like it why are you all up in Greekchat yoking yourself with "unbelievers"?

Biblically speaking, yoked means "in covenant with", not "in association with."

It is not a sin for a Christian to associate with unbelievers. Jesus did that all his life. He did not, however, make a binding covenant of any kind with them.

"Bad association spoils useful habits"

Scriptural reference please?

(not disagreeing, just needing the scripture that supports this so that I can understand the context in which it was taken)

1 Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits."

One scripture I will never forget. My mom used to throw it on me all the time when she didn't like my friends, LOL.

Even the demons know Christ and shudder in fear...

You are getting a hard time because you are posting on the AKA Avenue like you are all-knowing about the Christian Bible and telling my Sorors, sisterfriends, fellow greeks and visitors about being unbelievers in Christ.

Folks are getting upset with you because they are seeing you as a "Bible Beater" trying to thrash our heads into what it exactly says in the scriptures as if you are the foremost Biblical Scholar.

The masses of people on GC do not enjoy that. Most folk are on here to have a good time and a lively intelligent discussion of relevant topics that affect us today.

Then you quote chapter and verse to us as if some of don't know anything. And GC folks fail to appreciate it. Moreover, you are posting on the AKA Avenue where it could get a different reception in Greeklife or ChitChat boards.

Also I fail to see where you are coming from. Why do you feel this way? I know what the scriptures say and I read them differently. So what most folks are asking you here is why are you saying what you are saying and how come you feel the way that you do? And you remain steadfast at repeating the same scripture to us that we already know...

That is why you are getting a hard time.

^^^ I agree, Soror.

^^I agree too, sistergreeks.

First of all I never claimed to be an expert on the Bible. AKA Avenue is where the thread was so that's where the post was. I didn't say others were knowledgeable or unknowledgeable. I think it's just a case of someone having a different point of view and others not liking it. So if I am to be persecuted because I quote a scripture, then so be it.

Can someone please tell me when I said anyone was an unbeliever? Now if you are referring to when I brought up the scripture that says be not unequally yoked... is AKA or any of the BGLOs limited to Christians only? Last I checked they weren't, therefore, there is an unequal yoke. In the same post, I also said that I didn't believe that it was negative to allow other faiths in. I personally believe diversity is important, but people will read what they want to into things.

Why do I feel what way? Are you asking why I feel that SOME Christians think BGLOs are wrong? The reason I feel that SOME Christians think BGLOs is because of their intrepretation of certain scriptures. Personally, I do not have the rituals of any org so I cannot confirm or deny the presence of idol gods, symbolic or otherwise, however I do believe that if it is apart of an org, then it is idolatry which is a slap in the face to God. Personally I do not believe in hazing (because as I said, I feel as though Jesus took a beating great enough to cover my sins), but I know that all chapters don't haze... should the entire Greek system be brought down because some people can't get it together? No, that is unfair and unreasonable.

Now as far as why I am on Greekchat. I was bored one day and came across the site. I said to myself , "Self you can post here and be entertained." Myself replied "you are right, let's type." Trust me, this is not my ministry. I am working on other things... like helping people get basic necessities like clean water!

As far as talking to "unbelievers." I do not know who is an unbeliever and who is not. I take it since you identified yourself as one, then that would be you. If a Christian's responsibility is to spread the gospel across all the lands, then clearly it is necessary to speak to non-believers. While I do believe that sometimes the choir does need preaching to, the focus needs to be on saving souls that are lost or have never been introduced to Jesus. Therefore it would be my job to speak to non-believers to share with them the love and knowledge of Christ.

I know people come on here to have a good, light-hearted time but saving souls and ministry is not a light-hearted funny topic unfortunately. Some of you are trying to make it sound as though this is the only post I have made. I also posted somewhere about TV shows. I've posted about music. Those things are light-hearted topics. And I am sure there is at least one other out there who will agree that not EVERY thread on this board is meant to be amusing, funny, kind-hearted, witty, etc.

As for this particular thread. This is something that I had been dealing with but hadn't actually recieved an answer from God (because as many of you have so warmly let me know, things can be left up to an intrepretation). I thouht about joining a BGLO a while ago but life happened, recently it came to mind again, but at the same time, I am very serious about my walk with God and don't want anything to compromise that. During my undergrad years I was not serious about my spirituality, therefore this wasn't really an issue. I mean I knew about God and identified myself as Christian but it wasn't until I'd graduated and had some experiences that I really became a Christian... not because of what I was taught by my parents but because of what I KNEW for myself.

Now that I have answered your questions, can someone please answer mine (that despite numerous dissections of my posts, people have seemed to skip over).What exactly are the Christian principles that BGLOs were founded upon? This is not about the founders being Christian or pastors, or missionaries or whatever, what principles of the organization are Christian?

Are you saying Jesus never associated with non-believers or sinners?

Strongbeauty, that was ON POINT!!
 

Strongbeauty, you and I are =====>HERE<========, in more ways than one.

Like yourself, I have also echoed the same basic points to the folk here on GC on more than one occasion through the years, and like yourself, no one received it, thus the good fruit had fell to the ground.

The basic problem is not with your approach to the people here on GC, far from it. Heck, you and Fred Hatchett are as different as night and day; the contention you have been receiving is IMHO hearts being convicted, while Fred's MO was through persecution. And it was for that reason that he was banned.

The challenge for us as Christians is for us to receive ministry that sometimes does not tickle our ears and actually challenges us to take our walk with God to "the next level". What I am hearing on this thread that disturbs me is that the Bible and God's Word "is all relative" (read: subjective thus subject to personal interpretation). Therein lies the danger. God's Word is absolute, black and white, clear as crystal, and non-negotiable. When we are confronted with that, combined with the conviction it provokes in our hearts, it naturally causes us to get defensive. Hence what you have been reading throughout this thread.

Bottom line, as long as we want to get goosebumps and a good feeling while being ministered to, we will never grow and mature spiritually and will miss out on what God's will is for us.

You don't take candy to cure a cold or flu, why do you want a good feeling message to cure a spiritual ill for what ails you?

No one is persecuting you. I know I can only speak for myself and what my thinking about the matter is. I just do not understand why you are here telling my Sorors, sisterfriends, fellow greeks and visitors this information.

How are you checking this information out? By going to the International HQ websites and seeing what has recently been posted for membership requirements? You call yourself intelligently minded, so my question to you is, do you think that seeking information in the manner you are stating makes you the foremost authority?

No, I have asked you direct question and you quote me something that comes right out of some literature you carry on yourself... Which to me sounds like again you have done very little research and investigation on your active choice to pursue your religion and beliefs. I don't know, nor do I care, really... But, to have a legitimate discussion, I want to know WHY YOU FEEL that Christians ought not belong to BGLOs? Because that is how you are coming off in here on the AKA Ave...


Yeah, right, I have always stated I am a "unbeliever"... :rolleyes: Like I have spoken to numerous Christians and other religious groups and questioned their systems of faith... Yeah, I like to do that... That's me alright... You've definitely got me pegged!!! Wow, thanks for the insight into my soul...

Judgemental are we??? Perhaps???

Maybe you need to use the search function on GC and review my posts... I don't think I recall ever renouncing my Christian beliefs or professing another faith... Maybe I have and didn't realize it or I just don't come up under the close scrutiny of following under your dictates and grand design how Christians ought to be... I apologize of falling short of your glory...

Now this is the most intelligible statements on your whole cathartic free flowing of ideas. These statements I can use and discuss.

I disagree that the ONLY responsibilty for Christians is to spread the gospel across the lands and to speak to non-believers. I read the Bible differently from you. I think that taking right action, with right hearts and minds, speaks volumes from where I stand without saying a word. For me the "tongue is a powerful weapon..." Folks need to be mindful with what they say to each other... What does Proverbs say about a "wiseman" and "speech..."--like on several different verses... And I try to live my life like that...

Isn't it interesting that there are many ways to come to God... Maybe God designed it that way? One man's visit is another man's journey? I don't know, but I find it interesting... It is my understanding that what worked oneway for one man may not necessarily work that way for another man... God knows His flock... Does that mean everybody else MUST know that grand Design? I reserve my "jugdment" to God... Something about surrendering the will, I think?

I know I can only speak for my Sorority, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. The question you ask is about ritual. What is ritual? How are rituals decided? Who stated they will become rituals versus one that will not...

With that being said, I can say with confidence and my Sorors will be fine with this information I am sharing with you and everyone else, that there are entire books of the Christian Bible that are a strong part of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.

Which ones, you may ask... Well, do your research outside of the internet or maybe God will give it you if you pray and ask...

If you re-read my one-sentence post that somehow confused you, I didn't say JACK about Mary's son. I specifically said, (speaking slowly so you don't get off track this time)

FIRST...CORINTHIANS...CHAPTER...15...VERSE...33... SAYS...BAD...ASSOCIATIONS...SPOIL...USEFUL...HABIT S.

I don't twist the scriptures and read extra stuff into them like you and (most other christians) do.

Wonderful. While it may be your focus in life, the focus on Greekchat is not "saving souls that are lost or have never been introduced to Jesus." Wrong forum.

I'd rather hear the stones cry out...

^^^^ You sound as if Jesus is not welcomed here. I know or hope thats not what you mean, but thats how you sound. No one is even preaching the gospel, although if they were, what is the harm in that, especially here, with an organization that you all say was founded on Christian principles that uses Christians books in its rituals according to other posters on this board. The only thing people did was answer the question on why some Christians, whether greek or non-greek, feel as if greek life wasn't for them. Why does that hit so many chords? It would be different if people were starting anti-greek threads saying all greeks are evil and I know Minister Fred Hatchett sp? hit a few nerves but no one did that, they just gave scriptures. Whats so bad in that??? I understand you all have zeal for your organizations, whats wrong with people having zeal for Christ?

***Remember, the posts/ideals reflected on this forum...ALL GC Forums are those of INDIVIDUALS, NOT the organizations they are members of***

Well I am not the keeper of the GreekChat gate, so it really doesn't matter what I welcome. Did you think the anti-greek views of hypothetical overzealous christians would go over well though? I understand that you all are saying that you are just relaying the views of those hypothetical people, but sometimes the messenger can't dodge the bullets.

You all are posting as respresentatives speaking on behalf of those hypothetical christians, and we are replying with our real life personal views. Don't take it as a personal attack, it is an attack on those beliefs/views. If our questions/comments don't personally apply to you say that...None of you "representatives/messengers" have denied having those same views so maybe some of the replies have been worded as if they are personally to you.

Nobody has said that there is something wrong with having a "zeal for christ" but when your zeal brings you to the point of making judgments about others that is a problem. When your zeal leads you to preach as if everyone is ignorant of the scriptures then it is a problem.

Most wars have been started/justified by overly zealous christians...

ETA: HTH did I get in this thred anyway. I usually don't discuss religion...oh I know, I came in to co-sign one of my fav. sorors...nevermind.

Let me say proudly in case I misspoke that I am a Christian, very happy to be one. My big thing is that no one said it was wrong or cast judgements on any of the greek organizations, they just quoted scripture and their interpretation of that scripture as it applies to their life. That was basically answering the question. No one assumed anyone was ignorant or the scriptures posted, but someone had to not have known where this was coming from or else this would not be a thread. I wish everyone peace and blessings regardless if I don't see things exactly as you do. Everyone's personal walk in their spirituality is there own at the end of the day. Everyone doesn't believe that the Bible is the infallible word of truth and even those who do believe might not do everything in the bible, including me. Just because people have different views does not mean we can't coexist peacefully.

I agree :)

Explains alot

what do you mean?

Since you are quoting chapter and verse on me, then I will answer...

Yes, I made a vow to refrain from ill will toward the members of my Sorority. And yes, I pledged by heart, mind and strength to be supreme in service... And yes, I see no connection on my interference from God... Because, if God wanted to change it for me, guess what will happen??? And God has gotten a hold of me quite a few times and had to put me in places of pentinence as punishment for my sins... But joining my Sorority was not a punishment.. It was a chance for me to use my Sorority as a conduit to express my true potential in the manner that Christ has asked me to do...

Hey, some folks can take my statements how they want them do. I really have yet to care... I know that some of things I have done in service under the banner of my Sorority could NEVER be done in the Church...

Such as HIV/AIDS ministry, outreach and education to teens and young adults...

And the stats are there about how the African American church has done a POOR job toward those who suffer from this devestating disease in the United States...

So much for being all "Christian like" as folks like to profess and witness their faith of...

Wow! You know most Christians?
Im impressed.

You could do those things at a Church but like you said who cares. You are doing service as you feel convicted too. I hope that all the professing Christians endeaver to be Christ-like. Be blessed.:)

I'm sure. :cool:

NewBee, when did you stop being interested in becoming a Greek? What changed your mind?

StrongBeauty & NewBee, do you only object to BGLOs or does your displeasure lie will ALL GLOs?




*Printed largely since my questions always seem to be overlooked....*

I answered 2 out of 3 questions, thats not bad. I stopped being interested in becoming a greek in 2002, after extensive research in not only the NPHC orgs, but the NPC sororities and some service and other locals as well. As my first post on this topic stated, one of the reasons is because of the unequally yoked verse. Another reason was finding out that most greek organizations black, white, or in between have roots in masonry, which I was already "weary" of, if nothing else than just because of lack of knowledge. (Thats a whole different topic but suffice to say being an OES is not for me either, and you have to be a believer to join...) The only thing I can say is that is how I felt GOD dealt with me through prayer and seeking His will for my life. I was convicted not to pursue membership.

I just want to say that I dont "object" to any greek organizations or find displeasure in them as you put it. I wouldn't be on here if I didn't find some type of entertainment from them. How I apply the scriptures however to my life means that its not for me and this would apply to all greek organizations that allow non-christians, not just BGLOs. It doesn't mean that I don't respect what they do for the community, or that I think that they are hellbound. I feel that you can learn a lot from people with veiws different than your own, and I can say that occasionally when I pick up my GreekChat addiction from time to time, I always learn something new, whether it be the latest celebrity news, or suggestions on styling natural hair.

:( :( :( :(


I didn't really expect anyone to answer (although the question was not solely for members of Alpha Kappa Alpha (just another observation during my brief time here on Greekchat... members of orgs can view and post on other org's pages). To my knowledge, AKA is not the only one that states it's founded on Christian principles. That would be like the American public expecting Dubba W to tell us where the weapons of mass destruction are located.

I have answered your first question already. Secondly, I do not have an issue with ALL GLOs because there are Christian GLOs and professional GLOs. I also do not necessarily take issues with those that do not claim a faith base. If an org claims to be founded on or based on certain principles, then the expectation is that they will keep inline with those principles. You can't have it both ways (James 1:8- "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways"). The only displeasure I have with the Greek system as a whole is hazing.

Just as a question, how do you know what sort of values a GLO professes if you are not a part of it. You would not know what values my GLO professes as you have not been pledged or initiated into it.

You my be preemptively judging (and we all know what the bible says about judging) GLOs without joining them.

ETA: this isn't only directed to you but to anyone who feels this way.

If you were founded on Christian principles, there would be no need with withhold what those principles were. Being initiated should have nothing to do with it. Christianity is for everyone, not just a select few. Stop running behind your org's shield and just tell us. Jesus wasn't secret with what His principles should be, if you are inheriting His principles, neither should you.

Frankly, that was a piss-poor attempt to evade the question. Do better.

Another "smoke-and-mirrors" word: Judging. What I see happening here is that someone is trying to hold you accountable to follow the Word of God, and no one wants to receive it, so they throw out the word "judging" to avoid the issue.

Accountability is NOT judgment. All that has been happening is that some non-Greek Christians are holding folk here to a higher standard in Christ and the point of contention is that some folk here aren't willing to humble themselves to receive it.

Let's stop playing games and just open ourselves to receive the Word, even if it is not always something we want to hear.

Nobody here is judging anyone.

I didn't want to jump in this discussion, but this isn't hard (or it may be a sarcastic question, I don't know). So let me understand something.....you would join an organization without A CLUE (even a general one) as to its values or purpose? :eek: WHOA! I'm sure you went into rush with a general idea or at least got the impression as to values/beliefs of the houses you went to. I hope so....

Granted as a non-member, a person will not know EVERYTHING, but you can get a good idea from a variety of ways. I mean, granted, I don't know the "ins and outs" of the interworkings of the United Way, but I can make a pretty good judgement based on its website, history, public outreach, etc.

Also, I would like to think that if a person was attempting to join an organization and as they were going through the "process" discovered things that made them uncomfortable (for whatever reason - be it religion or otherwise), they could still walk away....or at least I would. But there are some that are not willing to take that chance - to walk into a situation with serious issues/questions that are left totally unadressed. I can't fault them for that.

No, but I also don't have a problem joining an organization that is not Christian based. I have no problem having sisters who aren't Christian. They are family. And just as I wouldn't turn my back on family because of their religion, I wouldn't turn my back on my sorority.

Quote:

Granted as a non-member, a person will not know EVERYTHING, but you can get a good idea from a variety of ways. I mean, granted, I don't know the "ins and outs" of the interworkings of the United Way, but I can make a pretty good judgement based on its website, history, public outreach, etc. Also, I would like to think that if a person was attempting to join an organization and as they were going through the "process" discovered things that made them uncomfortable (for whatever reason - be it religion or otherwise), they could still walk away....or at least I would. But there are some that are not willing to take that chance - to walk into a situation with serious issues/questions that are left totally unadressed. I can't fault them for that.

I can't either, but they could ask questions and they would probably get satisfactory answers. Hatchett used to demand that GLOs give HIM a copy of their ritual so that HE could determine if they were ok. Being told that it really was ok wasn't enough. If a PNM or interested party isn't going to be satisfied with the answers given by members of a GLO thats fine, but don't turn around and judge all members of the GLO, and others, because of it.

In short: if we're Christian and in a GLO we're not having a hard time justifying it, it's OK.

/Catholic so some people wouldn't consider me Christian anyway

"Judging" in terms of faith only...
 

Drolefill,

Fred Hatchett is another matter because no, he is not the final authority as to what is ok for everyone.

Faith/salvation is a personal issue and if a believer thinks that joining a GLO will compromise that or cause them to stumble (for biblical reasons/scripture that speaks to them and their needs), then that doesn't mean that you are somehow being "judged" because you didn't have that issue.

I don't see how by Strongbeauty or NewBee giving THEIR reasons for not joining as "judgement" to you or any other Christian that did. Just like by you and other Christians joining a GLO doesn't automatically discredit their personal reasons or means that you are "judging" them (as being close-minded or wrong).

It goes both ways.....

I have no problem with those who choose not to join, and do not judge nor fault them for that. Only when those come and question our ability to be Christian and Greek, not in a inquisitive manner but in a disapproving manner.

I think people are understandably annoyed by those who say we are "yoking ourselves to unbelievers" and how can we do that and still be Christian. Quite frankly I've spent 22 years being Christian without ever worrying about yoking myself to anything. Joining a GLO is a personal decision. Let those of us who are Christian do it without being criticized by others.

I'm not really upset... just bugged by it.

I'm bugged by it, too...

Right and churches and spiritual leaders (ie organizations for the purpose of argument) are always 'keeping in line with christian principles? There is never any corruption in churches, huh? I could run down a list of common problems in churches that aren't in line with christian principles but that does not discredit the fact those churches, ie organizatios, were founded on christian principles.
You are sounding like a "double minded man" right now. Apply those same standards thats you are applying to "the greek system" to your beloved church.

Let the "real" church, say a-a-a-men (singing the tune)..