Well, not to offend any Christians, and not to start a whole other debate, but I for one believe anyone who holds a belief in God, (...and yes, I'll go out on a bigger limb and say my God may be known by many names to many different people) will find their place in Heaven.

What I find notable is the fact that these were given to the people BEFORE CHRISTIANITY EVEN EXISTED!

The Ten Commandments (a.k.a. Decalogue) are accepted by Judaism, Christianity and Islam as a summary of some of the more important rules of behavior that God expects of humanity. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10co.htm#img

Well to avoid repetition, let's just agree to disagree on this issue because you and I have different views as to what constitues "a religion", especially if its based on what our society has deemed as being "secular".

That truly is an ENTIRELY different thread JAM! ;)

I am an athiest. I feel alienated and uncomfortable when references to religion are pushed upon me by our government.

Hmmm, you may be on to something! ;)

a few points
 

I will probaly regret this but...

1- The 10 Commandments were given to Moses at Mt Sinai and are therefore JEWISH.
2- Before there was nothing besides Catholicism a theologian said that the 10 Commandments did not apply to the Jewish-Christians as they were known, so to say that they are Judeo-Christian is incorrect. Only those Commandments the Church said applied now do, which makes the whole 10 Commandments argument moot.
3- As a law student if I have to hear the separation of church and state argument from a professor 1 more time I will scream!!
Swearing on the Bible (new or old) in court is a violation, as is the monument in the Alabama courthouse.
4- As to why Christians are "presecuted" for their beliefs- I hate to say this, but it's the Christians who are the KKK, the Christians who fought in the Crusades trying to change the Muslims into Christians and it was the Christians who built gas chambers and killed 11 million people- Jews, Gypsys, and other "non-believers" in the Holocaust.
5- Along those same lines, it is the Christians who found some obscure quote in the bible that gave them cause for slavery.
6- Again, it is the Christians who are being "picked on" b/c they throw their religion in your face and tell you that you're going to hell if you don't believe what they do!!!

The 10 Commandments in the Alabama courthouse is a violation of church and state- that's the bottom line!
As a judge, the Ala Supreme Court justice knew this and violated the rules of Judicial Conduct by violating those rules. He then went further and ignored the order of the Supreme Court of the United States- that's called anarchy!!
We have laws in this country and it is the job of the judges to enforce them. If he only chooses to enforce those rules he wants, what's to stop him from no longer enforcing the Amendment abolishing slavery?

Done ranting!!
CAS
PS- I will not answer PMs.

well done!

It's time to lock the thread.
 

If we're going to descend into equating Nazism , the KKK, etc w/ all of Christianity and twist history to do it (very tenuous allegories at best) then this thread is over the line and I'm calling the moderators to have it locked/deleted.

Those of you who claim Christians are bad for whatever reason would do well to check yourselves for bigotries of your own.

I dont see anything wrong with this post. 2017law did not attack anyone, just made a few statements that are somewhat if not all accurate.

2017law, I do not follow your premise...at all

2- Before there was nothing besides Catholicism a theologian said that the 10 Commandments did not apply to the Jewish-Christians as they were known, so to say that they are Judeo-Christian is incorrect. Only those Commandments the Church said applied now do, which makes the whole 10 Commandments argument moot.
I'm confused by your point here, or at least by what you are trying to say. Catholicism is a rather new religion, there has always been SOMETHING besides Catholicism...and a theologian's words-in my opinion-takes a back-seat to God's words.
4- As to why Christians are "presecuted" for their beliefs- I hate to say this, but it's the Christians who are the KKK, the Christians who fought in the Crusades trying to change the Muslims into Christians and it was the Christians who built gas chambers and killed 11 million people- Jews, Gypsys, and other "non-believers" in the Holocaust.
:confused: This sounds similar to my 3rd grade lesson in "sets and subsets".
.5- Along those same lines, it is the Christians who found some obscure quote in the bible that gave them cause for slavery.
Point 2 and 5- Part of the reason we have so many Christian denominations is due to people trying to interpret God's Word.
Plus, it is my very humble opinion that you crossed the line of this threads decorum...
Your post-this is again IMHO-is not a valid argument. You have drawn parallels with sweeping INdiscrimination.
It also seems like a tad too much emotion emotion and conjecture. More like a Christian Bar-B-Q than an argument one would hear in a debate.
Adduncan-I guess if they can lock a thread centered on Southern rush they can sure lock this one. It would be a shame. It has been nice to have a mental stretch...while it lasted.
edited "cause I missed THIS jewel-6- Again, it is the Christians who are being "picked on" b/c they throw their religion in your face and tell you that you're going to hell if you don't believe what they do!!! :eek: Now this is just flat out wrong.

Sigh.......... :(

Don't you just love SWEEPING generalizations? :rolleyes: This is no different than saying "people who support the removal of the monument are ALL atheist" :rolleyes: . How silly!

I with adducan on this.........

UH OH...I see John http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/uhoh2.gifhttp://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/uhoh2.gifhttp://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/uhoh.gif:D

The wonderful curiosities of prejudice. Religiophobes are just are ignorant as homophobes. Those wicked 10 Commandments may jump on someone, and....

In hope of getting this back on track....
 

Your thoughts, please........

I was serious about this question. :o Because frankly this concerns me and not only from a Christian standpoint, but just in general. Say what you will, in this litigatious society some other group of people will be challenging other symbols (regardless if they are considered "secular" by the general public).

2017law,

I have to agree that you've gone over the line.

I will agree with two points. The Ten Commandments, given to Moses, were for the Jews. Maybe not Jewish, but given to them.

Not being a lawyer, it still seems to me that the Alabama case in question is clearly in violation of the law. Whether that law is good or bad doesn't matter.

The rest of your post is a little far out there.

I think the 2017's argument was valid. Harsh, yeah, but you need that sometimes. Burning a cross on some one's lawn is pretty harsh too.

for the record
 

For the record I am not religion-phobic. My closest friends are of all religions.
The bottom line of my argument was that according to the Constitution of the USA the monument is a violation of the law. As for being too harsh or generalizing I have been the victim of all sorts of prejudice for being Jewish. You try being in a minority, it's not fun. As for early Christianity I have studied it greatly and early Christian theologians did say that the 10 Commandments and the Old Testament did not apply to Christians- hence why you don't believe in keeping kosher. The only Commandments that apply and the ones that the Church has said you do.
Like it or not, it's the truth.
CAS
PS- If you want the thread closed by all means go right ahead. The truth hurts.

The only two commandments that I can see that also exist in legal form are "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal." The rest aren't directly found in American laws.

To continue with 2017law's point -- nobody is saying that all Christians are evil just because of the KKK, Holocaust and the Crusades, and if you read it that way, then . . . sigh. But the fact of the matter is that certain religions have more of a precedent than others for killing in the name of their God. Christianity has struggled with that issue, and now Islam is struggling with it today. Others have as well. Whether or not it's legitimate, Christianity has a reputation for being a religion that persecutes (as does Islam, whereas Judaism has a reputation for being persecuted).

Thanks sugar and spice. I think you are everything nice :)

And maybe some Chemical X so you can be like the powerpuff girls.

I was thinking about my past lives the otherday. I really hope I was never a great prophet of any religion, because if I was, I would have been wrong, obviously if I'm back here, and now all those people that followed me and still worship me today would be totally screwed.

Let my clarify that last post, what I was trying to say is, My bad for East Germany. I won't let it happen again.

Yeah, go me. Why not just piss off everybody at once? Why bother to spread it out over a long period of time so that your puplicist can at least try to cope with it? Jerk.

I'm running for President. State voters suck.

HoneyKiss asked what can be done to mend the fences, and I see mostly accusatory rhetoric. Many of us - whichever religion! - would like to see some inner healing in the United States, and the hate that's been spewed on this thread in the name of the Lord and the Law is plain nasty.

What we need is to completely define (or redefine, your pick) what separation of church and state means.

If it means that the government will have no dealings with religious matters, then any lawsuit saying that someone in a private company was discriminated against because of their religion would be thrown out. Any and all symbols & traditions of ANY and ALL religions, current or former, would be thrown out.

No one would swear or affirm on the Bible. No statues of Blind Justice. No mythological creatures, no Buddhas, Krishnas, Vishnu, Star of David, Crosses, Crescents, Stars, etc etc in any governmentally funded parks or buildings. No meat could be served in a governmentally funded cafeteria lest Seventh Day Adventists be offended. But - since Janists believe that even tubors have feelings, that would mean no potatoes or carrots in any governmentally funded places, either! Thousands of children who currently go to daycare centers that happen to be in a church, temple or other religious building would have nowhere to go.

I could go on and on, but I think my point is made. Most of us WANT to get along - but not at the risk of religious freedom.

Thanks Honeychile

And while I can understand 2017law's post due tot he fact that he himself has felt personal pain, that does not excuse the fact that sweeping generalizations of acts that were committed by SOME Christian does not discount the entire religion or the people that support.

Plus, it is certainly not like the Jewish are beyond reproach. Who was it again that cried for the murder of Jesus? Who rejected him? Since we are talking about the truth let's talk. :rolleyes: I have centuries yet to cover.

As I stated earlier, SWEEPING generalizations do nothing to further the discussion or answer the question.

I get what your saying. For tax purposes, we should consalidate religion? I'm in.

Oh....god damn!:eek:

Oh nevermind, I see what you did.

I am the Iconlast. I will destroy all religious monuments. And not just the obvious stuff. I will find the Holy Grail, and destroy it. I will find the shroud of Turin, and destroy it. I will visit stonehenge, and destroy it. I'll find the spear of destinity, and break in half. I'll cover the ark of the covent in baby powder and mail it to the post office and everyone will think that's its anthrax and that will force them to open but Indy and his girlfriend will look away in time.