I think you all aren't feeling me: I never said that one's decision to become a mother while young and not married is an insurmountable obstacle or "unforgiveable sin," so to speak. I also don't feel that by not extending membership to single mothers who are in college that I am saying go to hell! I'm just saying that I don't think it's a good example to set AND I think that mothers need to focus on the studies and family and working for their community. They don't need a sorority to do that.

I just don't understand why people feel entitled to join a sorority, A NON-ESSENTIAL, NOT REQUIRED part of the college experience. You aren't owed membership just because you're doing what you chose to do-be a mother, student, worker, etc. You can't be denied something you aren't owed in the first place.

I don't doubt that undergraduate single mothers contribute to their communities and families while juggling a great deal of responsibility. I'm saying that being in a sorority is not a right, it's a priviledge, and that those who choose new members to carry the torch should look carefully at the message they send when they choose people who CHOOSE certain life situations. Single motherhood is one of those situations, but I feel the same about academic mediocrity, sexual promiscuity and undignified behavior.

Oohlala: I would tell that young woman that yes, if she met the sorority's standards, she should consider it, but I would counsel her to wait until she graduates from college. Her focus in school needs to be on her family and studies.


[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited August 10, 2000).]

i would not recommend a pregnant woman pledging a sorority period undergrad, many many chapters do still practice forms of hazing/pledging/mip whatever you want to call it. the activities and time needed may not be detrimental to most but a expecting mother is easily at risk depending on the situation. again sorority life is time consuming, expensive, these things need to be taken into consideration. you need to focus on getting to know your line sisters, doing work and learning more about the sorority during this time. If you already have a child and you want to pledge then i say go for yours, if you can give it your all and still handle your mommy responsibilities as soror Chakalate has done then wonderful, especially with college women being so diverse in age and maturity. (oh by the way you are tight soror Chakalate, but you know this, cali in this piece :0) you have just as much right to persue AKA as the woman with no child but is not married and having sex as an extracurricular activity, in love or not, sex before marriage is a sin according to God. We are all sinners. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" with that said whether you got caught stealing or not, its still wrong. knowing all this the bottom line is what does the chapter want, and if the chapter is cool with it then so be it "pledge on", but if the chapter doesn't feel it will represent the image or values they are trying to uphold then you are out of luck. like my soror said AKA is not a right its a priviledge that comes ultimately down to the chapter vote and we need to respect that or find another sorority. some may feel for example that the gpa should be lower or higher etc. etc. but that's our decision to make and no non soror should be speaking on what the chapter has decided to have as its standard. that is my 1908 cents. good topic by the way.

Well said, Soror PositivelyAKA!

Discogoddess, I truly understand your concern with what message unwed parenthood is sending to our youth. But I'm not quite sure of what you would like for those who have gone that route to do.

To me, there is no such thing as 'glorifying teenage pregnancy or single parenthood'. It seems to me that people would rather have these people to fail and be poor examples than to excel. At least that way, I guess people would feel better saying "Don't do that, or you'll end up like (whoever)." The argument loses merit if (whoever) is succesful.

What you fail to realize is that a single mother will be the FIRST person to tell a young girl not to go that route. You probably have no idea of what we went through to get where we are. I can (and do) tell story upon story of sleepless nights and tears and heartbreak. However, I keep living and I countinue to SUCCEED, because that's what I'm supposed to do. A mistake is just that - a MISTAKE. It is not the end of the world. God blessed me to wake up the morning after I made that mistake, and I will continue to glorify HIM (not teen pregnancy, not single parenthood) until the day that he decides that my work here is done. And let me clarify what mistake I'm talking about, because some people continue to get it mixed up:
I made the mistake of having unprotected sex, not having a child. A child is NEVER a mistake, nor should he/she be regarded as one. God saw fit to bring life through me and regardless of the circumstances that allowed for that child's conception, God DOES NOT, HAS NOT, SHALL NEVER make a mistake!

You have to see past the act. Some of the strongest women in the world have been where I am. The world eats out of the palms of Maya Angelou, Oprah Winfrey, and Iyanla Vanzant. They have all been there.

Personally, I have never considere my self a single mother, yes I was a teenage mother, but not a single mother. My son has both of his parents in his life 100% and maybe that is why I was able to pledge and am still able to be a part of my organization actively.

But that is a completely difenerent topic, so i will get to what I intended on posting. Yes, i understand exactly what you mean when you say that what Ihave done may not be what will happen to others, but I don't believe I am glorifing teen pregnancy. I had a mind sey before my pregnancy that I kept after and during it and I know that is what made the difference in me. I will not ever go out and try to promote sexual sctivity or teen pregnacy, but I will try to be there for the young ladies who have had sexual intercourse and become pregnant to tell them that they can keep striving for their goals.

DISCOGODDESS SAID:

I am inspired by your story, Soror ChAKAlate, but I don't think by glorifying teen pregnancy and single parenthood we are helping to alleviate it, either. And I think we glorify it when we accept single moms on the undergrad level, regardless of age, and have sorors (and other greek women) parade their kids around at step shows, service
events, etc. What are we saying to young girls when we do this? That "hey it's okay to get pregnant, becuase I did it and still got in to a sorority"?

Soror no one is glorifying teen parenthood. I wish I had waited until I was older..like another young lady said people who have children early are the first to tell people to wait.

But we must face reality..the reality is that teens do have sex..whether we like it or not. I think it is commendable when young woman wait until they get married to have sex..if you did more power to you. But what do we say to those who choose to do otherwise, what do we say to those who did get pregnant, that their life is over. That they are ruined and fallen women. I am not proud of the fact that I made the unfortunate mistake of giving birth at an early age but what I am proud of is the fact that I did not let that mistake hinder me.

Soror I must say your understanding of our sisterhood is a bit different of mine..I didn't think the underlying requirement of our sorority was NOT to be a single mother. I thought that were more important considerations to make when we were selecting young women to be part of this prestigious organization. Aren't there more important ethical and moral standards?)

DISCOGODDESS SAID:
Not everyone can/will do as you and blutheatrics have done, so I don't think it's wise to hold up these examples, however inspiration and impressive they are.

I must differ I think it is wise to hold up myself and others as an example because you must remember that we are human..that none of us is perfect that we all make mistakes whatever there form. For those who do make the mistake of being a single parent it is important for them to know that the image of single parents as welfare queens is nothing more than a stereotype that there are women who hurdle that roadblock and overcome it. Why would any soror be ashamed to call a woman such as that soror? I mean I understand why you would think or even assume that an AKA women is "perfect." I mean it is hard to believe that an Alpha Kappa Alpha woman is not perfect because we come so damn near. (Smile..how do you put those smile faces in) But let's put conSkeetedness aside for a moment.


DISCOGODDESS SAID: AND I think that mothers need to focus on the studies and family and working for their community. They don't need a sorority to do that.

First of all I think it is presumptious for you to think that you know what teen parents should be doing that you can decide the appropiate measure of what a mother can handle in or out of college. But then you have the right to your own opinion. I don't know maybe you have forgotten the tremendous burdens that Black women have shouldered in this country..burdens that make single parenthood ad balancing student life seem trivial indeed.


DISCOGODDESS SAID:
I just don't understand why people feel entitled to join a sorority, A NON-ESSENTIAL, NOT REQUIRED part of the college experience. You aren't owed membership just because you're doing what you chose to do-be a mother, student, worker, etc. You can't be denied something you aren't owed in the first place.

The above comments I assume are directed to those who are aspiring to membership. Because I have already proven that I am worthy of the privilege to be called a soror. Fortunately for myself and many others there are woman in our organization who do not think like you and look at other attributes besides a person's status as a parent to decide whether they are worthy to join an organization.

DISCOGODDESS SAID:

I'm saying that being in a sorority is not a right, it's a priviledge, and that those who choose new members to carry the torch should look carefully at the message they send when they choose people who CHOOSE certain life situations. Single motherhood is one of those situations, but I feel the same about academic mediocrity, sexual promiscuity and undignified behavior.


In regards to those comments I admit they are hurtful. It is hurtful to think that a soror thinks that you are unworthy to carry the torch. That they let single parenthood blind their judgements of someone's worth as a member of this organization. But then that is your opinion. You said that when people choose who to carry the torch they need to think about the message that they are sending.

I would like to think the message that my big sister were sending is that my worth to be a member of this organization was more than my status as a single parent. I am glad that THEY thought it was a privilege I deserved.

To those who have children and are interested all I can say is that their are sorors out there who will still consider your merit to join this organization despite your status as a single parent.

To all my sorors and other ladies in the California areas, including the other single parents that responded who responded hit me
up I would love to talk to you. Try me at ChAKAlate2@blackplanet.com

Note: I wonder do people feel the same way about men. Should men not be allowed to pledge if they have a girlfriend pregnant or when they are fathers? Double standards kill me.

------------------
Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

Soror ChAKAlate,

I just wanted to add that on the first page of this thread, LadyAKA stated in her firs post that she thinks the same standards should apply to men.

Soror ChAKAlate:

I regret that you feel PERSONALLY offended by my opinions, but just like yours, they are mine and I would hope they would be respected as such. My comments weren't directed at women currently in the sorority, since the original question dealt with women who are interested in attaining membership while pregnant (the parenting part came later).

Since I have only had influence over the entrance into the sisterhood of a small number of women, I regret that somehow my words were taken as the gospel truth and/or official policy of Alpha Kappa Alpha. As many a soror, including myself, has stated on this thread, the ultimate decision lies with the women in the chapter in which a candidate seeks membership.

About the double standards concerning men, I'm sorry that you feel that anyone on this board was perpetuating a double standard. Actually, I never addressed them because this thread wasn't about them.

As far as I'm concerned, we can agree to disagree and call it a day. If you'd like to correspond more about this, please email me.

DG



[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited August 11, 2000).]

Just can't stay away from the topic ...

Though we are being sisterly and not screaming on each other 'too much' I think this is a dead topic ... we have already answered the question ... it has now
gone on to a 'she say, she say'(yes I said that twice) type thing. And we are not getting anywhere, someone thinks their situation is good while others or another think it is not the best ... okay all has been said about it and the situation remains the same and so does the FACT that to each her own - we can argue till we are blue
in the face - THE CHAPTER HAS THE FINAL SAY!! And just because I don't think it is a good choice does not mean that it is a bad choice and that I am ignorant. As Soror DG said we need to agree to disagree, people are being real sensitive ...
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

till next time sisterly yours
LadyAKA

Discogoddess, if I gave you the perception that I was personally offended and upset by your comments then perhaps my words were a bit to strong or persuasive.

I was not personally offended. I was offended in the general sense of whenever I hear someone say something that I heartfelt disagree with.

My comments were directed toward you because in your previous comments you quoted me and so they were in large part directed to me. I responded or referred to you as a result of that but my message is public and is addressed to everyone in general. I of course know that you do not speak officially for ALpha KAppa Alpha and in no way meant to insinuate that..I mean that is obvious or I would not be in this organization.

In regards to the issue about men, that was addressed to the public in general and though someone pointed out that a soror I believe mentioned that she thought the same standards should apply to men. I wanted to make a point that there would never be a heated discussion about this issue if it came to men because this society holds a higher standard to women than to men when it comes to sexual promiscuity. Women more often then not bear the consequences and "shame" for such actions not men. It is also interesting to note that some fraterntites wear as a badge of honor their ability to be "ladies men"

You must also understand that I am a law student and so I love to debate and argue especially about things I feel passionate about.

In regards to sorors having debates it seems like whenever we get a heated discussion on the board people get uncomfortable with it. I think that as long as sorors are civil and are carrying on a mature conversation then debate is healthy. Though we all wear the same colors and made the same pledge it does not mean we speak and think uniformly, we are still individuals and I think it is fine for prospectives and the public at large to see that.

Soror ChAKAlate, that was well said.

there was a young lady who was actually pregnant when she pledged my chapter. of course, she didn't have to succumb to everything the others who came in with her did but she successfully finished, was the chapter president for 2 years and graduated on time with honors and is on her way to law school. by the way, her daughter is the cutest, smartest most respectful 3 year old you'd ever wanna meet

There were two third-trimester pregnancies on my alumnae chapter's last line in April. One soror had a beautiful baby girl and the other is due next week.

The Real Issue...
 

I've read some of the previous posts...but am still a little confused....

Is the issue really, can a pregnant person 'pledge' our organization OR do 'we' as 'sororities' have a problem with people who are unmarried/pregnant pledging our orgnaization.

I've had many friends that were pregnant and married 'pledge' on the graduate level. However, if you are soooo far along in your pregnancy, you may be asked to wait to the next line. Some things done during our process may not be a wise thing to do in your 7, 8, or 9 (you get the picture) month of pregnancy (And I'm talking about anything illegal or the like). I would advise grad./undergrad chapters to get a release from the individual and a doctors note.

As far as persons simply 'pregnant' (unwed) -- I'm mixed on this.

Recently, a friend and I were having a discussion on this very topic. Our conversation came about because one of our sorority's recently crossed a line of three where one was an unwed mother of 2 children with 2 different fathers( I input this info becasue it is comon knowledge across campus) and one was in her 5th month. The question became is that appropriate and what does it say about our values. Also, as we strive to uplift our community and looking at the number of unwed mothers who are children themselves, are we being good role models?

Pledging on a gradute level is MUCH different than pledging on and undergrad level. Should someone not be allowed to pledge if she is pregnant? I really don't know the answer to that because each situation is different. But what I do think is that each chapter needs to be aware of the image that it is sending out.

I'm torn on some level, because it stinks a little bit of hypocrisy.

I know plenty of people across orgs who talk about how they would try desperately to hook up with their SO's while they were online- pre-marital sex is a fact of life for most people in this day and age. They are doing the same thing as those pregnant girls, the pregnant girls just got caught out.

How do you make the judgement here- we will accept you on our line only if no one can TELL that you're engaging in certain behavior?

When I read the subject of this thread, my first thought was it would be almost impossible to PLEDGE (I'm coming up on my 20th anniversary y'll) and be pregnant because of the toll PLEDGING takes on one's health. The new intake process is much different than my process, so its conceivable that one could be an expectant mother and complete MIP without undue stress. The real question is not CAN a lady go through intake while pregnant, but WOULD she be selected?

I know of an instance with a lady who is a soror now, that while in college, became pregnant, the sorors packed her up and sent her home! She married the young man before her daughter was born. She completed pledging 23 years later (after her daughter was a soror).

Even still, the real question is would a SINGLE pregnant lady be selected for intake? That's a question I feel that shouldn't be answered in an open forum.

What I am about to say is may be seen as harsh but it is my OPINION!!

It is my belief that sororities should attempt to maintain its integrity. The very breakdown of the American family is attributed by unwed pregnancies being seen as acceptable. In my book it is not! If a young lady finds herself in this situation, it is my belief that one should see this (the act, not the child) as an error. It should not be seen as okay but as an obstacle that one must and will endure/overcome. Yet society not only views having baby showers for twelve year olds and terms such as my baby daddy as cute. It is not! I do not believe that one should conduct intake process with any sorority while in this state. Once she has gotten herself, child and situation straignt then seeking membership is acceptable. Let me add only acceptable if she (Any young lady included) can be a valuable asset. If not, don't attempt membership...AT ALL! This statement includes those young ladies that do not find themselves as unwed mothers but very promiscuous. Finding self worth should be one's first priority before membership into a sorority...especially Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.:(

I know a young lady that became a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha as an undergrad and has two children. She is under the age of 25 and is not married.

As someone who saught membership along side of this young lady I didn't look down upon her but I know of others who did.

She applied for membership more than once and her morals and reputation were questioned. However, she still prevailed in the end and her application was accepted for membership.

She did not hide the fact that she had children but she did not flaunt it either...

Please tell me her children are twins!:eek:

I have to agree with that opinion! I think it's riduculus somtimes that society has made all of these things acceptable. It saddens me when I tell my grandmother that someone else is pregnant and she asks me if she is married or are they going to get married and my answer is ALWAYS no! Not to say that you should marry becasue of a child but once you decide to enter into a sexual relationship, having a child CAN happen and you should be prepared to accept the consequences. And as someone stated earlier, I believe the same should go for men. Being an unwed father and NOT taking responsiblity for your child OR children is WRONG and IRRESPONSIBLE!! I believe it reflects badly on fraternities too.

No, they aren't twins and both of her children are under the age of 10. She has a son and a daughter.

A lot of people ,both greek and non-greek (majority IG's), had a real issue with this young lady.

We have discussed this subject before!

As a member who was made in a large undergrad chapter, at one of the nations largest black colleges where greeklife was in the spotlight, I honestly never thought the fact that I had a child would be a reason for me to be rejected.
My role as a parent was and is my primary role, however becoming a member of a sorority was a goal of mine that I felt parenthood could not deter. From the day I crossed till the day I left my undergrad chapter (and so many days after I left) I worked for my chapter and Alpha Kappa Alpha. On my line of 57 three of us were parents, I went on the become the hostess, vice president and neophyte of the year.
Plain and simple I had a child and was unmarried. Yes I was involed in a sexual relationship with a man that resulted in a child ( and gosh since we are not married it doesn't matter that we have been together for seven years, are engaged have our degrees and good paying jobs, raising our son,etc.). Undoubtedly I would and could have prevented the situation, as an adult I obvioulsy made the a poor decision that resulted in a child. Honestly I think thats where people have a problem, I mean how can we possibly still have high and ethical standards and have members who have children out of wedlock? Thats really the question, but the issue really isn't "gosh we have a young lady who was having sex outside of mariage", the issue is we have a young lady here who has PROOF she has participated in sex outside of marriage. I am positive that no one is willing to say that any sorority consists of 100% virgins. Sex is the issue with this topic. Clearly for many, someone having a child outside of marriage may lead to some doubt in the type of decisions and ideals they hold. Having two and three kids is even more doubt. So because the proof (the child) is here, we question their worth. If I had an abortion and nobody knew, would I still be a women of high moral and ethical standards?
There is a difference from poor judgement with a resulted mistake and someone who exhibits a series of questionable behaviors follwed by countless excuses (and we know what we do with excuses). As a member I don't advocate rounding up all the pregnant/unwed mothers and making them sorors, however I would not hold that fact against anyone who had the will and the drive and qualifications to WORK hard for Alpha Kappa Alpha.

ttt
This should bring about a great discussion amongst our newer GC peeps.

I really enjoyed reading this thread. I have my opinion, but since I am not a member, I'll keep it to myself. I just wanted to say that it was nice to see how GC operated back in the day, just because a topic was controversial, doesn't mean that it would get out of hand and locked (like so many topics these days on various forums)!

I have to agree with Wonderful1908. The fact that some people got "caught" doens't excuse those of us that haven't. While I agree that if I were pregnant I personally wouldn't be pusuing membership at that moment, it doesn't mean that at a later date I couldn't have made a dedicated and devoted soror of DST. We need to be careful when looking down at others when we know that the only thing separating us from them is a fertilized egg. However, when pursuing membership, prospectives have to be aware that people can and will look at any reason they deem necessary to or not to accept you. As Eclispe said in an earlier post it is the perogative of that chapter.

Bun in the Oven
 

Wow! That thread contains some of the best debates I've seen on this board, w/o a lot of personal attacks.

Regarding the issue at hand. This has made me realize one more question I want to ask the next time we're considering doing an intake. ;)

For health reasons, it is a bad idea for a woman to go through her process while she is pregnant. I have witnessed several women go through their pregnancies, and each body handles it differently, with each pregnancy. There are no guarantees. Americans have acess to great healthcare compared to the rest of the world, but carrying a child is still one of the riskiest things a woman can do - in terms of her health in the short and long term.

Even if I thought a young lady would be the most amazing Soror on the planet, I could not in good faith vote in favor of starting her process while she was pregnant, either grad or undergrad. Take NINE MONTHS to focus on your health and the baby's [or babies'] health. Keep in contact with us, and once you've delivered and gotten adjusted to your new life, re-evaluate whether sorority membership is for you.

As has been stated before, Sorority membership is a privilege, NOT a right. I am not knocking those ladies who have gone through their process while pregnant, I am glad they were ok. I would advise against it. The timing just isn't right.

Back in the day...
 

This was a good thread! Heated but discussed in an adult manner. Before we had to shut down all the foolishness. I love greekchat, but I wish we could get down like we used to without all the crashers or hurt feelings!

***Update from my previous post, we finally got married this past July. ***

Re: Back in the day...
 

Congratulations!! :D

I had a baby 2 years after graduation. I pledged my junior year. I never could have completed the process when I was pregnant. Especially the first few months of my pregnancy. I see how people pull it off unnoticed because I didn't show for almost 8 months. I just don't think it is safe. Even though with MIP there are no real physical limitations, it would be difficult to participate fully. Or it would have been for me.

That is of course... my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like @$$-holes. Everyone has one... some of them stink.

:)

I had to bring this one to the top again!

I just read this.....I didn't have a clue that the last post was in 2003!

LMAO!

Since it's rare that people use the SEARCH function and bring old threads back to the top, I usually don't look at the dates. But when I started reading the thread and saw the number of pages there were, I saw that this thread was about four years old.

LOL!

We had two pregnant women on our last line. One had her baby three days before initiation and she never missed a beat--okay except for those few hours they keep you in the hospital. We were just happy she didn't go into labor at initiation - lol.

Soror, I responded to your PM about another matter.
SC

HC AKAtude edited this post??? :confused: What did she say?

I agree with my soror. Take care of You and your little one first.

You're right. Both girls didn't miss a beat.

I agree with her, as well.