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Quick Hijack!
>>>I am visiting family in Jamaica and it is a serious issue here as well the paper had an article about it because all of the Miss Jamaica have been very light to med. complexion and 'coolie' meaning "good hair" or a person who looks mixed. <<<
It is so funny that you mentioned this. While I was in Negril two weeks ago they were taking pictures of one of the contestants at the resort that I was staying. I can't remember which Parish she was representing, but she did not look like what one would consider the typical Jamaican woman. If I didn't know she was Jamaican I would think that she was Hispanic. I think that it is good to show diversity and that beauty comes in many forms. But when there is only one type of beauty shown is where we go wrong a further divide ourselves. |
I have several things to say about this issue:
When Halle Berry (and Denzel for Best Actor:D )won the Academy Awards for Best Actress I was so proud. My friend and I would not change the channel because we were afraid we would miss it (even though, we both new it would be announced at the end of the awards show). Well..the next day my girl and I were eating breakfast at our school caf. The tv in the caf was tuned to a station showing recaps of the Oscars night. Two cafeteria ladies turned as they were showing Halle accepting the award. One said, "Ain't that something a black girl winning that award." The other replied, "She ain't that black though...jus look at her skin...she would not have won if she didn't have that good skin and hair." I lost my appetite. Now we all know Halle is biracial...but her appearance is NOT uncharacteristic of an AA lady who has TWO black parents (period). My father was what many would call red and my mother is what many would call brown. My two younger sisters have lighter complexions than my brother and I and people made constant comparisons when we were growing up. A pathetic individual who knew my family even suggested that I wasn't my father's daughter because I was the only girl who didn't have lighter skin. When the individual was told that I looked exactly like my younger brother the individual rationalized that it is okay for boys to be darker...but looking at my sisters, I couldn't possibly have the same father. :mad: Hello I was of a slightly lighter complexion than my mom but to someone like that all they see is light or dark... That was a slap in the face, my father an mother were very upright citizens, high school sweetharts, when he passed away it broke her heart....but I've swayed off topic. To say that my mom wanted to hit the individual is an understatement . ;) |
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What type of isht is that!?
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/signs02/1.gif |
Sorors and SFs...
All I can say is that Trollquan McTroll is very unfunny.:mad:
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Why do I seriously doubt that someone even has a job, let alone one in which that person would be in a management position?
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It's all pink on the inside.
-Rudey --That's what my neighbor says every time he gets liquored up anyway. |
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As far as the "light- vs. dark-skinned" issue goes, it is a deep-rooted issue for me b/c where I live there is no such thing as "brown-skinned"--you're either light or dark. I qualify as dark, and therfore am considered second best to many men (particularly Black men in my age group, 22 yrs.), even though I get the "You are SO Beautiful/Gorgeous/You look like a model (I'm 5'10")" comments all the time from people that are either my age but I'm not interested in (friends, family, whatever), or from older people I don't know...I refuse to buy into these stereotypes that light=beautiful, b/c Black people come in all shades of the rainbow, and WE AS A PEOPLE ARE TRULLY BEAUTIFUL b/c there are no other people on this earth like us. Beauty is not one color/shade!!! But it really saddens me that people in this day and age still buy into this mentality, and that our own people are continuously perpetuating it (i.e. music videos on BET that always feature light-skinned women with long hair). People need to get real and remember that there are bigger issues out there that need our attention than this pettiness... |
My sister and I are 4 years apart but we look alot alike. People describe us as oh she's the light one and she's the dark one. How about learn our dayum names!!! If you are able to tell those differences then you can tell us apart. That burns me up.
Alot of guys come up to my sister and say You are sooo pretty to be dark skin. She asks them was that a compliment or an insult! I really don't understand why people do this. I have been (depending on the person) classified as light skinned or brown skin. On the cheerleading team and in certain dance companies I have performed w/ we were all the same complexion. Now no one can convience me that this was an accident. A choreographer told me he only cast members that were my complexion or lighter. My mouth just dropped open. I said shouldn't it be based on a persons skill. He didn't answer. As a chorographer myself I have seen and heard alot. I use these experiences as learning tools to apply when I'm teaching. I remember how certain people were treated because of the color of there skin. There is no way I could do that to someone. As a child of God I am to love everyone!! |
Bump/Colorism article
Really long read. Not surprising, but disturbing.
Can the Shade of Your Skin Determine Career Success? By Angela D. Johnson © 2003 DiversityInc.com September 08, 2003 "They says if you was white, should be all right, If you was brown, stick around, But as you's black, m-mm brother, git back, git back, git back" These lyrics from a blues tune recorded in 1951 by Big Bill Broonzy reflect the impact of colorism -- bias based on the shade of one's skin -- on American society. For African Americans, this intraracial discrimination is rooted in slavery, a period when light-skinned mulatto offspring of slave owners were given the more desirable positions on the plantation. This biased way of thinking continued after slavery with people with skin "lighter than a paper bag" or pale enough to see the blue, spidery network of veins in their wrists gaining admission to exclusive African-American organizations. Today, the overt judgments based on skin color may be gone, but the bias remains, and it's not exclusive to the African-American community. Fair-skinned South Asian women are often considered more attractive and more likely to marry that their darker-skinned peers. Filipino women gossip about the ultimate skin tone of a newborn (The lighter, the better). The success of deep-hued Celia Cruz was an exception in the Latino entertainment arena. Researchers have found that colorism has an influence on myriad aspects of people's lives, including education and income levels. A study by Cedric Herring, a sociology professor at the University of Illinois Chicago, and Verna Keith, an associate sociology professor at Arizona State University in Tempe Ariz., in the early 1990s revealed that, on average, very light-skinned African Americans attained an additional two years of education, compared with their very dark-skinned counterparts. Family income of very light-skinned African Americans was more than 50 percent greater than the income of those with dark skin, while personal income was almost 65 percent higher. Like racism, colorism has infiltrated the offices of corporate America. Sometimes, it manifests itself in the form for verbal harassment. Last month, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) announced a settlement of a color harassment and retaliation lawsuit against Applebee's Neighborhood Bar and Grill, headquartered in Overland Park, Kan. Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned African-American server at one of the chain's Atlanta restaurants, alleged that he was called derogatory names, such as "porch monkey," "jig-a-boo" and "blackie," :mad: :eek: by his manager, a light-skinned African American. Burch was fired less than 90 days after the manager arrived at the restaurant. Applebee's was found in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which protects against discrimination based on skin color as well as race, national origin, sex or religion. Burch was awarded $40,000 in the settlement. Similar cases have been filed by Latinos. Jennifer Kaplan, public-affairs specialist for the EEOC, said the commission has witnessed an increased interest in what she describes as appearance bias. "It fascinates people that someone would allege bias based on color when the person accused is of the same race," said Kaplan. The number of color discrimination cases filed with the EEOC has nearly doubled since 1995. In 2002, there were 1,382 color-bias charges, up from 700 in 1995. Kaplan said the increase is caused in part by the method the agency uses to collect discrimination data. Kaplan said a greater awareness of color discrimination is prompting data collectors to break out colorism claims from racial-discrimination charges. The majority of filings in 2002 were in the Northeast (44 percent), followed by the West (21 percent), South (15 percent), Midwest (12.5 percent) and Southwest (7.5 percent). The EEOC was unable to provide case-outcome statistics. Despite the increase in colorism cases, Kaplan said racial discrimination continues to account for the largest amount of the EEOC's workload, 38 percent. While colorism is sometimes included in racism charges, psychologists contend that colorism is not the same as racism. "I have a hard time applying the label of racism because that includes a power component," said Kendrick Brown, an assistant professor of psychology at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minn. "It's related to racism, but it's not the same thing." Work-place discrimination is not the only way colorism is playing out in corporate world. Colorism is impacting a variety of business aspects including marketing messages and casting decisions for television shows. In India, a television commercial for skin-lightening cream was pulled because women's groups claimed the ads equated fairer skin with beauty and success. The racy telenovelas produced in Latin America rarely feature Latinos with darker skin tones. "Light skin is associated with more power and privilege in most societies," said Midge Wilson, a professor of psychology at Chicago's Depaul University. Wilson said that in Italy, higher status is given to fairer-skinned Northern Italians. In Western Europe, a variation of colorism exists in the form of the preference of women with blond hair and blue eyes. "The biggest difference (with whites) is the colorism is not institutionalized," Wilson said. "You wouldn't find that blonds earn higher wages than brunettes." Psychologists noted that colorism is not exclusive to intraracial relationships. Whites may view lighter-skinned people of other ethnic or racial groups more favorably. "Probably because most whites believe themselves intellectually superior," said Wilson, who is white, "thus, those who best approximate their features are more likely to be invited into the circle of power." Given the universal impact of colorism, is there a place for colorism in corporate diversity training? Brown believes there is, but cautioned that it may take "a little bit more education and preparation" than other areas of diversity training. "When you talk about (racial-sensitivity training), you're talking about two different groups interacting around a particular issue," said Brown. "When you talk about color bias, you're talking about people in the same group. Folks feel as if they are airing dirty laundry." "I think people become spectators when it comes to skin-tones issues," Brown added. "It becomes 'That's between them' rather than 'It's an issue that involves the whole company.'" Discussions, such as the ones conducted during diversity training, may have a positive impact on colorism. "The more we talk about it * we'll be more likely to be able to eliminate a color caste system in the future or, more realistically, minimize it," Wilson said. |
Chocolate sistah
This was a really big problem for me when I was younger. The suburban area I grew up in seemed to just worship light-skinned people. The only way a dark-skinned girl was considered attractive was if she had long hair.
I remember visiting an elderly woman (my grandmother's friend) who let me & my (light-skinned) cousin sew doll clothes at her house. She always would say to my cousin "you're so pretty" or "you have such pretty hair" (long) and wouldn't say anything to me. I would go back to my grandmother's house and cry (in private). I stopped going to visit her without saying why. I remember showing family picutures to some of my white friends. My dark-skinned and light-skinned cousins were on the same page. People would say "she is so pretty" about the light-skinned one. I would say, with attitude, that they BOTH are pretty and leave it at that. I haven't experienced prejudice as blatant as this in my older years, but it is definately still a problem. Recently, I have had problems with people criticizing me when I wear pink. Pink has always been my favorite color, but I didn't wear it when I was younger because I thought dark skinned people couldn't wear light colors (except the occasional white). I made a consious choice to wear lighter colors and I started with pink. The haters claim that I'm going overboard with my AKA love, but that's crap! I don't wear pink any more than I wear blue or black! I have enough blue to wear everyday, and I never heard a single comment about it. Also, they don't say a thing when I wear green! |
i was watching The 5th Wheel the other night (my boyfriend's choice, not mine. the show is Jerry Springer-bad). on the show, 2 guys were picking amongst 3 girls for a date. so one guy decides he doesn't like any of the women and the other picks one of them. the "chosen" one turns them both down saying that one of them was "too dark":mad::mad::mad:
i wanted to throw my shoe at her head i was so pissed. as a dark-skinned woman, i am very comfortable within my pretty skin;) so she didn't offend me, per se. her ignorance/superiority complex based on her lighter complexion did. i try not to let such stupid, sad people get to me but sometimes...:rolleyes: |
Re: Chocolate sistah
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no light colors with dark sin?
How odd!
I have always thought that darker tones could be set off beautifully with light colors (white, ice blue, light pink, mint green, etc.). It all depends on the undertones of your skin- not all dark skinned people are dark the same way. For m white always shows up nicely against my skin, as does light blue and green. Lighter shades of pink vary. Anyway, this thread just about breaks my heart. I have never been addressed this way by anyone in or out of my family. And the worst thing is that we do it to ourselves. So ignorant. |
It's amazing to me how this self-hate perpetuates. I would often have to school my students when they stated, "So and so has good hair" or "That boy is black"
I grew up and live in Cali, and the color thing is HORRIBLE here. I have soooo many stories from my childhood it's crazy. It was never my family, it was always "others" |
Hair
I feel the person who said that some people think that to be pretty and dark, you HAVE to have long hair. I happen to have long hair, and be dark. In college, I was the dark skinned cheerleader with the long hair. I kept it so long that when I danced, it got caught under my arms all the time. I also know that the only reason that some people gave (and give) me the time of day is because of my hair. I think that is one of the reasons I kept it long. Recently, I have cut it shorter and shorter... just to see. It is at my shoulders now. Funny thing is... white guys who have noticed me... nothing changed. Black guys who noticed... dropped a bit. Now when it gets up to my ears, we'll see what happens!
Oh, and my mom always told me that darker women look best in pastels... I agree. Also, my cousin and I are both chocolate, and we are usually approached by lighter skinned men (some damn near white). Does anyone know why this is? Fellas... talk to me! Eva www.movetodcmetro.com |
I love wearing bright colors and if I had a dollar for everytime someone gave me grief for wearing bright colors (my family), I would retire. And I did NOT have long hair so that was a strike against me! Didn't want to do a weave either. Fellas would trample me to talk to my older sister. :rolleyes:
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with long hair with short hair with natural hair with straightened hair weigh less than 130 lbs. weigh more than 130 lbs. with pretty eyes with no kids etc. Where does a person "cross the line" so to speak from simply having a preference to marginalizing lighter or darker skinned folks? If I prefer to NOT date a brotha that wears locks, am in some way marginalizing that aspect of black culture as well? |
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For me the difference between expressing a preference and prejudice is this:
If you express a preference for something, you are saying that you would choose someone with that characteristic above all others - but that you would not exclude anyone who didn't fit that criteria. If you're demonstrating prejudice, you're basically saying that you only want that one thing and nothing else. |
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I've noticed that it usually makes a difference what color you are when you make these kind of comments. For me, a honey colored sista, to say that I don't date dark skin men would be out of line. But if I said that I didn't want to date light skin men, people would not be offended.
I think it's ridiculous that we exclude color as something that we are allowed to have a preference about. We can say loud and clear that we don't date short men, or fat girls, or people with bad skin, or girls who wear weaves, but color we aren't supposed to care about. It's just ridiculous to me. |
Being darkskinned I do not a have a problem with the shade of people. However I do like women with certain traits physically. A preference does not make you ignorant. However if that is the sole basis that you choose as an indvidual then that is stupid beyond belief. To judge one ability to be a compatible partner based on skin tone is ignorant! There are many beautiful sistas and brothers out there regardless of their skin tone.
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My issue is this. What are sometimes seemed as preferences often become prejudices. Why is it that I've heard several little black children say things like "i don't like him he's too black" or "i'll only date light skinned women." That is no longer a preference that is a prejudice often learned in the home. What does that tell the members of the group that aren't so called preferred?
Instead of preferring a skin tone, why not prefer someone who has a relationship with God, who is independent, who knows how to care for a mate, someone who possesses a thirst for knowledge. Why not ask for these things and let God provide a mate suitable for you. If God brings you a mate I'm sure it will be someone you "prefer". |
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Now, if I took that preference and turned it into my hiring practices or the people I choose to live near, it becomes a prejudice, not simply because I chose a mate that I was attracted to. |
I think the problem stems from people who turn away from/discount/insult someone JUST BECAUSE they don't fit a personal 'preference'.
I am chocolate but all of my serious relationships, even my marriage, have been with light-skinned men. Not necessarily my preference, it just worked out that way. Now I have had relationships with brown- and dark-skinned men but for whatever reason, they did not develop into long-term or serious relationships. Hence the reason why my mother thinks that I prefer light-skinned men; nothing wrong with that, but it is just erroneous. Quote:
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If someone had asked me my preference before I got married I would have said darker skinned men. Most, if not all, of the men I dated were medium brown and darker, save my 8th grade crush that I went to the Fair with and when we went on the Tilt a whirl...wait, I'm digressing! ;)
Anyway...I met my now husband in college and fell in love with his mind. I freaked out one day when I compared his leg to mine and realized how light he was. I was like "but I don't date light skinned men!" :eek: :eek: Stupid, I know..... I know of situations where people fell in love with folks they did not initally think were attractive (not just because of skin color). You will be suprised what you find endearing after you fall in love.... |
You're so right, Eclipse...
I always dated men over 6'2". I actually sought them out (color was never a factor as long as they were Af Am). About 6 mos after I met my husband I realized that he is only a couple of inches taller than I (I'm 5'6") and that he's actually quite handsome. :D
It's funny how when I fell, I fell hard. His looks were just sooo far from my heart that they didn't even register for the longest time. And before that, looks were so very important! Go figure. :rolleyes: |
As we grow our choices in mates change. What our prefernce is now may change over time. There is nothing wrong with having physical standards. Some women like men who work out and vice a versa. Does that mean they hate people who do not work out? No it just is what they like. I like all shades of sisters but because I do not date white women does that make me a racist?
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ttt...2006
No Surprise - Skin Tone Study Reveals Preference for Light-Skinned Employees
Date: Sunday, September 24, 2006 By: Michael H. Cottman A controversial study on skin tone has revealed what many black folks have been whispering about for years: Light-skinned blacks are often more likely to be considered for jobs over dark-skinned blacks. The University of Georgia’s unprecedented study indicates that dark-skinned blacks face a distinct disadvantage when applying for jobs, even if they have resumes superior to lighter-skinned black applicants. Matthew Harrison, a doctoral student at the University of Georgia, recently presented his research at the 66th annual meeting of the Academy of Management in Atlanta. "Our results indicate that there appears to be a skin tone preference in regards to job selection," Harrison said in a statement. "This finding is possibly due to the common belief that fair-skinned blacks probably have more similarities with whites than do dark-skinned blacks, which in turn makes whites feel more comfortable around them." "I think what was most shocking to me was to find that dark-skinned black males with greater credentials were still recommended less -- or seen as less of a candidate -- than light-skinned blacks with worse credentials," Harrison told BlackAmericaWeb.com in an interview last week. "I think it has a lot to do with the general comfort level that people have with dark-skinned blacks and light-skinned blacks," Harrison said. "The media depicts dark-skinned black men as violent and threatening." Harrison said he was reminded of the controversial Time magazine cover that featured O.J. Simpson during his murder trial when the magazine darkened Simpson’s image to make him appear more menacing. "The findings in this study are, tragically, not too surprising," Harrison said. "We found that a light-skinned black male can have only a bachelor’s degree and typical work experience and still be preferred over a dark-skinned black male with an MBA and past managerial positions, simply because expectations of the light-skinned black male are much higher, and he doesn’t appear as ‘menacing’ as the darker-skinned male applicant," he said. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
Useless and devisive research?
And the preference is more pronounced as job candidates' melanin and hair curliness decreases: Hispanic over Black (light or dark), Asian over Hispanic (light or dark), White over Asian, etc. Once you get to white vs. white, then higher credentials and work experience actually begin to count. Light/dark, black candidates are still at the bottom of the hiring pool--this is the issue that should be addressed. Creating division simply serves to undermine the progress that solidarity will (hopefully) bring.
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My niece is 5 and has very fair skin. when she was around 3 picked her up from school she loves to tell me what happened and i listen and conversate with her about everything that went on that day. well this day, she pointed out that she is "YELLA" and her baby doll is now "BLACK" and she may want a "YELLA" doll like herself ! :eek:
I asked her who told her that she was yella and she says that her teacher told her that. (Surpised as heck!) So i told my sister and she and her husband had to talk to her. |
My students don't know what color I am. They always ask me if I'm black or white and I ask them if they would behave differently if I told them. To this day, none of them really know and I started thinking if they treated white teachers with more respect (without having to be threatened) than they do black teachers.
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Hello,
I'm new to GC and i felt compelled to reply to your thread. I am brown-skinned and my older sister is dark-skinned. She experienced the same thing on more than one occassion. :( People today still allow the color of skin to influence them. :mad: I've had friends that hate themselves because they were dark, friends that believed they were better because they were light and other ridiculous mumbo jumbo. :confused: Fortunately, I have always been around all types of people of different shades so I'm accepting. Even I as a brown-skinned woman have been put down. Yes, discrimination,ignorance, racism,etc. still exists. |
You ladies should read this book called "Color Complex". It's really interesting. It talks about fraternities and sororities too. I guess back in the day XYZ frat and XYZ sorority would only pick lighter toned men and women. Check the book out if you've never heard of it. It's really deep. I think it's unfortunate that these kinds of things still go on. I don't think it's really that bad with black men, but with the women it's really bad.
A lot of people think I'm half black half white. I've had people think I'm Indian too. My parents are black. I usually see women more attracted to darker men, but I usually see men more attracted to lighter women. Me? I like em' all. :p |
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