I'm sorry you had such a bad experience at such a difficult time. I have seen ministers do the same thing with grace and others botch it terribily. Once, when I saw it done well, the minister simply said that because the person was a believer we don't have to wonder where they are right now and we can rejoice because they are rejoicing in heaven with their Savior. He then said that if anyone else wanted that same assurance then he would pray for them and all they had to do was asked to be recieved into the body of Christ. No "you are going to hell if you don't" speech. The brother of the woman who had passed away decided to give his life to Christ and the rest of her family was overjoyed. It was a way of turning a sad situation in to a (somewhat) happy one.

Those are some good questions. I frequently listen to this guy on the radio, Hank Hanagraff who bills himself "The Bible AnswerMan" he's a conservative Christain who has a call in radio show that pretty good. He does not shy away from the tough questions and backs up everything with scriptures. He says (and I know I am going to do a terrible job at quoting him!) that there should be no question among Christians of the essentials of the faith (although we know their are!) like the Trinity, salvation, etc. Other non essentials like pre tribulation versus post tribulation should be debated, with love. I think it's kinda like with your spouse. Would you divorce your spouse if he constantly left the seat up in the bathroom? I hope not! Conversely, you would probably give it STRONG consideration if he cheated on you or became a drug dealer. bathroom seat = non essential cheating = essential . I think if someone disbelieves the essentials of their faith then it is time to go!

I remain a Christian because I believe in it 100%. The things I am still struggling with, I am trying to learn about. There are some things that I was really uncomfortable with about Christianity and not being "fair", but the more I read and learn and study and pray the more I realize *I* was the one wrong, not the faith. I think it is not a true belief system if it doesn't challenge you in some way to be a different person. If you pick and choose from different religions to line up with what you already think I thin you are making yourself the god, not a Supreme Being.

i am so with you on that one!!! i went to catholic school from k thru 8th grade. in the 3rd grade, we always had to talk about the gospel and homily on mondays. i didn't go to church bc my parents didn't take me. i was 8, was i supposed to hotwire the car and drive myself? well, one monday, i was called on to answer the questions. i had no idea, but i guessed...there are only 4 people who wrote the gospels....lol. the nun figures out that i am only guessing and asks why i didn't go to church. i explain that no one took me. she said that i should tell my parents that i have to go and she proceeded to tell me that if they didn't take me i should take myself. i should walk if i had to bc it was that important to go to church. since i lived 3 miles away from the nearest church, i really didn't think it would be appropriate to walk all by myself!!! did she even think about the safety of an 8 yro walking all that way alone (and she did know where i lived)?

in 5th grade, we were talking about how the isrealites were the "chosen" people and how only they would go to heaven...then at the same time, we were saying how only catholics would go to heaven...so i wanted an explanation. i was basically told by a nun that it just was so there, stop asking. at this point, i was a little wary.

in the 8th grade, i really and truly ended my belief in the catholic church. my teacher that year, a nun, was awesome. she was soooo "cool." one day in health class, we got on the topic of sex and abortion. someone asked if abortion was ok if the woman was raped. she said (and i am COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY NOT LYING) that god would never allow a women to get pregnant unless she enjoyed it. i almost fell out of my chair. to this day, i get totally aggrevated when i think of this. given the statistics that 1 out of 4 women get raped at one point in her lifetime.........i am so angry that this woman would stand in front of a group of children and say this.

in the area that i grew up in, first confession and communion were in grade 2. confirmation occured in each church every three years for 6-8 graders. i was supposed to receive confirmation in the 8th grade, but i switched schools and the new school had confirmation the previous spring. i thought i had escaped, but my mom made me get confirmed at our church. i was in the 10th grade and i even said that i really didn't want to be confirmed and it wasn't what i believed in. it was terrible! my parents aren't even religious!!!

in 2000, my nephew was born and his parents asked me to be his godmother. my mom had arranged his baptism and the priest said that he just needed a letter from my parish priest saying that i was "eligible." my mom lied and said that since i had just moved to massachuettes that i didn't belong to a church yet! the priest said that as soon as i joined one, that i could ask the priest to fill out the appropriate paperwork. i was pissed off!!!!! my sis-in-law's twin brothers were asked to be the godfathers and they couldn't do it either bc they didn't belong to a church. my parents had to stand in as the "official" godparents. my mom got the priest to agree to allow the three of us to stand up at the baptismal fountain, too, but we would not be noted as the god parents. do you want to hear the absolute worst part of this story......my parents do not go to church.....ever. i think the last time my mom went for a mass, without some special reason, was when i was 5. guess what....they write a check out every year for their "church dues." so it really doesn't matter if you are a fit person, just one who pays.

currently, i am a "maria-ist." basically, i believe that there is a higher something, that you should be a good person, treat others well, etc. i do not believe that religion occurs in a building and that you are religious if you go to church/temple/synagoge once per week and then forget the rest of the of the week the teachings of the religion. i am drawn to judaism, but i don't know that i will ever convert. who knows, maybe i will always just be a "maria-ist."

I am this same way...one of my largest odds with Christianity and Catholicism is how you are expected to join the church and donate to it, and most of all, confess your sins to a pastor who unfortunately, all-too-commonly is no better then the average person. One thing I love most about Judaism is before the Day of Atonement, you are supposed to forgive anyone you have done a sin too in the past year, and then on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement, you are supposed to ask God personally for your forgiveness and a new start for the new year.

I do not believe going to church/synagogue/mosque once a week makes you a better follower of a particular religion, but instead, it is in your heart. While you should always try to follow the sabbath, attending services each week is not necessarily mandatory in order to do so.

I do not currently belong to a synagogue, mostly because I am constantly in a different location (school or home) and I do not know which branch of Judaism best fits me yet. However, I am invited and welcomed to almost every synagogue I go to, even if it is just once a year.

In my experiences with Judaism, Rabbis and other scholars have welcomed any question I may have and have tried their best to answer it - both with a traditional Jewish answer and their own personal feelings. As well, all have welcomed and participated in different types of debates...I feel that debate and looking at different religions will only strengthen your faith as it will cause you to look deeper into your religion to find answers...and if not, you are able to convert and then do the same process... (does this make sense??)

quote:
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and was basically told to shut up and accept what I was told - and I realized that Catholicism doesn't exactly encourage questions and debate.
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I am sorry that some of you have had this experience. Maybe it's because I did not go to Catholic school, but I had the exact opposite experience. My parents, priests, CCD teachers, whomever, always encouraged debate. For example, on the eve of making my confirmation, I went to confession. I walked into the confessional, and asked our parish priest point blank why we needed to go through confession, which I always thought was a stupid thing to do. I mean, why do I need to talk to a priest when I could cut out the middle man and talk to Jesus personally. I thought he was genuinely interested in my point of view, and that made me listen to his views. I thanked him, then went home. I was still confirmed, and confession is still my least-favorite sacrament. When I taught CCD, I encouraged questions. I freely admitted that I did not have the answers; all I could give them were my opinions, backed up by scripture.

I was a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Most Mormon children are baptized at age 8, after they finish their CTR classes. I was baptized at age 14, two years after I began attending the church there. Deep down, I really only believed about half of the teachings, but at the time, I thought that with time and faith, the rest of it would fall into place. As I matured, I realized that it wasn't going to happen that way, and that I had some major misgivings about the basics tenets of the religion. I still believe many of the things I started out believeing, but I've come to realize that those are mostly common sense/living a good life/being a good person type of thing that aren't limited to any one religion. I left the church when I came to college, and looking back I realize that being baptised was probably a mistake, that at 14 I wasn't mature enough to make a wise decision about it. I can't imagine having to make that decision at 8.

I wasn't raised religiously at all--we celebrated Christmas, and said grace at meals--but that was about it. Today, I'd consider myself an atheist or an agnostic. I have investigated various religions, but I never found one I was 75% happy with, let alone 100% (especially when it came to gender relations and sexuality!). Maybe if I have children, I will decide to raise them in a religious setting.

With that in mind, I believe that around 14 or 15--around the time of Catholic Confirmation is the appropriate time for the introduction into a religious community. The worst battles of adolescence have taken place, and the child has enough of an adult identity to make a somewhat informed decision. I know that where I grew up, social cliques revolved around which church you attended, which impacted the religious attitudes at my very public school. By the time 9th or 10th grade rolls around, those peer pressure issues are less insidious. I also think at that age, someone is more equipped to understand the responsibilities of being an active member of a religious community.

Wow. I'm so sorry you had such a BAD BAD catholic school experience. I can't imagine how those nuns could say that about pregnancy and "only if she enjoys it" That's horrible.

:eek:

My 8th grade year our pastor went crazy and thought Jesus was coming back and the Virgin Mary was talking back to him...that kinda messed with my head a lot becasue it was right before my dad died. But I've been able to find other parishes that are more "normal" I was confirmed at 16, in my junior year of HS. It was something I thought long and hard about but finally decided to go through with it.

You're very fortunate, then, and so are your students.

The question I asked wasn't even a "hot" debate-inducing question. We had been given an assignment, where we had to write a report on a prophet. We were given a list of "approved" prophets from which to pick. On the list was Sarah. I saw that and said something like "Oh, I didn't know Sarah was considered a prophet." My CCD teacher completely lost it and told me to shut up and accept what I was told... then she called in the director of the CCD program (a nun who had just started there the previous fall) and SHE lost it and started screaming at me in front of my entire class, for being "disrespectful" to my teacher. :rolleyes: (She'd have made a great DZO :p )

After that incident, my father pulled me out of CCD and taught me from a catechism for the rest of the year. The catechism's question and answer format kind of bothered me - it struck me as saying "Here are all the questions you'll ever need to ask about your faith, and look! Here are the answers!" This especially bothered me because the whole reason I was learning from a catechism was that I'd gotten thrown out of CCD for asking a question.

I was re-enrolled in the 8th grade confirmation class the following year. Interestingly enough, the CCD program had a new director by that time.......

My problem w/ any church that discourages questioning is that if they had something really good they should encourage questioning. Like if you were buying a great car, wouldn't the salesperson be open to any question? Likewise, if it were a lemon, wouldn't the salesperson be rather sketchy and elusive? I think what causes so many people to stray or just leave is the fact that there are so many answerable unanswered questions. So sad.

I was confirmed in the 8th grade and I had wonderful teachers for my confirmation. I also attended Catholic school for 15 years in New Orleans, (public schools aren't that great in New Orleans so you either attend Catholic or Private), and I feel I was taught everything there is to know about Catholicism. I am not the perfect Catholic however, I do feel that I could not abandon my faith and change because everyone in my family is Catholic and it is a part of me like my letters are a part of me.

Exactly the same for me. I felt no pressure to be confirmed, nor have I ever felt that there was no room for asking questions. I'm still a very active Presbyterian, however, despite ocassional disagreements with every jot and title of what that entails. ;)

Confirmation age differs among Presbyterian congregations -- anywhere from fifth grade or so to high school. In ours, confirmation is typically at Pentecost of one's seventh or eigth grade year, after two years (yes, two years) of weekly (during the school year) confirmation classes, as well as individual study with an elder matched to the confirmand. I know it sounds like a long process, but part of the reasoning is that confirmation is a serious commitment, and the confirmands are taken very deep into every aspect of faith and active congregational life so that they know what they are getting into and can make an informed decision. At the end of the process, each confirmand must write his or her own faith statement -- the things he or she believes. I am constantly amazed at the depth of understanding apparant in some of these.

FWIW.

Re: Re: Re: Religion question...
 

Eeek!

Quote:

ETA: I guess, upon reflection, my biggest problem with most types of Christianity is that they use fear to manipulate children. Not cool.

If you said "many types" rather than "most types," I might agree with you. And in America, maybe it is "most." But looking at it on a world-wide scale, I think this may be a gross overgeneralization.

<diversion to soapbox>

I fear I will offend some people by saying this, but I think I need to say it anyway.

It ain't that simple. It is romantic, egalitarian and "pseudo-tolerant" to say it is that simple, but it just ain't. And in my opinion, it can be offensive to say it is.

One example: traditional Buddhism is nontheistic/atheistic. That is, traditional Buddhism says there is no God. As a specific citation, the Dalai Lama says there is no God. Thus, many if not most Buddhists do not believe in a Supreme Being. Universal forces, perhaps, but not a Supreme Being, by whatever name. For me, as a monotheist and a Christian to say "we all believe in the same thing/a Supreme Being, we just call it by a different name" not only ignores reality, but it shows, in my opinion, a disrespect for Buddhists who sincerely believe there is no Supreme Being. It's like me saying I know more about what they believe than they do.

And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the diametrically opposed views of a Supreme Being some religions present.

I'm all for tolerance and understanding between religions. But I think the first steps in tolerance and understanding is to recognize our differences and to avoid declaring "agreement" where there is no agreement.

Truly sorry if I have offended anybody.

</soapbox>

I was baptised by a Catholic priest in the clubhouse of the complex my parent's lived in. My father's side is all Catholic school attending Irish folks. My mom's side are protestant of one form or another. My parent's divorced when I was three so I began attending Presbyterian church with my mother. I was confirmed in 8th grade - although I only remember one year of classes, MysticCat? Anyway! At the time confirmation in my church also meant you could take communion because you understood what it truly represented. Now the Presbyterian church (and from what I learned last Sunday they have held this belief since the 70's) allows all children to take communion, which I find really great. I had no idea what was going on when I was baptised, obviously, but now I understand it and I appreciate it. Yet, I don't feel I need to go through it again just because of that. It's sort of like initiation! You are really confused when it first happens, but the more you see others go through it and live it the more you can appreciate it! OK, silly analogy but...

Also, to those who were posting about the bad funeral experiences, I think no harm was intended. I think it was a not very eloquent minister! When my uncle passed away my cousins asked me to bring the gifts to the alter. Being the non-Catholic I am I was confused as to when to do it. So I went to the priest and asked him when. He said, "Well, don't you know? Aren't you Catholic?" I said, "Well, my family is and I am a Christian, but protestant." So he mumbled off an answer and walked away in a huff. Then as Communion came, he said, "All those who are Catholic are welcome to take communion" and honest to Pete he looked right at me! So I took it anyway, but from my aunt, because last time I heard the story Jesus didn't say, "Catholics only, do this in rememberance of me." So, some people just don't know how to make you feel comfortable I guess! :rolleyes: It's really no wonder so many folks get turned off on organized religion....

ETA - I know that in Catholic church they believe non-Catholics can't take communion, it just upset me that the priest was so harsh - for lack of a better word.

Like I said, varies from congregation. When I was confirmed, the class was about 4 months long.

Quote:

At the time confirmation in my church also meant you could take communion because you understood what it truly represented. Now the Presbyterian church (and from what I learned last Sunday they have held this belief since the 70's) allows all children to take communion, which I find really great.

My first communion was after confirmation, too. But you are right -- since the 70's, all baptized children have been allowed to commune. (For that matter, all baptized people, whether Presbyterian or not, may commune.)

Quote:

I had no idea what was going on when I was baptised, obviously, but now I understand it and I appreciate it. Yet, I don't feel I need to go through it again just because of that. It's sort of like initiation! You are really confused when it first happens, but the more you see others go through it and live it the more you can appreciate it! OK, silly analogy but...

Not so silly, really. Just as initiation joins you to your GLO, baptism joins you to the Body of Christ. It can't be repeated, because you are already joined (and no Presbyterian minister would do a re-baptism for this reason), but you can learn to "live into" its meaning afterward, and every time you witness it happening to someone else, you can "remember your own" and "be thankful."

I was baptised at 4 (a little late) and attended Catholic School from K-12th grade. First Communion was 2nd grade, Reconciliation was 4th and Confirmation was done on your own time whenever you were ready. You had to attend Sunday classes for that ( I was 13)
I never ever felt that debate was not allowed. It was openly encouraged. I never heard a nun or priest say that only Catholics were going to heaven. We were taught that anyone who lived good and moral lives were accepted into Heaven just the same. Pro-life and Pro-choice debates were common and no one was chastised for their beliefs. There was no fire and brimstone talk. No fear of God put into us. No threats of being hellbound. I feel like it was just such a relaxed atmosphere in which to be raised and I hope to give my daughter a Catholic education as well. She can make up her own mind whether or not to be confirmed.
My 5 yr old nephew has been attending a Baptist Pre-K and I am shocked at the things that come out of his mouth. He sings songs about the "blood of the sinners" and pledges allegiance to the Christian flag. Teachers show up at the kids homes unanounced to see what kind of TV and music the parents are into. Dancing is not allowed, etc. My sister plans on raising him Catholic (he is baptised) but she liked this school. She will be transferring him out next year.
Bottom line- when you are scared into believing in God, something is wrong!

Right, I know in my own church I would not be re-baptised. I was referring more to people who believe they have to be willingly baptised to be "born again". Or that people say you weren't old enough to make that decision so it might not be as valid.

I agree with this 100%. I never understood religious people who look down upon good, upstanding non-religious people and say that they're going to hell because they don't go to church even though they have not done anything wrong. Like Munchkin, I was raised without relgion, but my family has a Christian background, so we celebrate Christmas and Easter, but mostly for the gifts and family gatherings. I would consider myself agnostic because I don't believe that one has to go to church or be religious to be a good person and to have morals, but I do believe in a higher being or force of some sort. I think the spirituality is more important than the act of going to church and participating in the ceremonies--religion is something that you should internalize, not something that you should have to prove to other people.

I was not raised in very religious home besides when my mother wanted to shove religion down me and my brother's throat when it was convenient. It seemed to me that having a "church home" in the south was very important and I always believed in God even though Christianity was not practiced in our home. My mother's biological family is Catholic and because my grandmother decided to give my mother up for adoption, my mother decided that she wanted nothing more to do with the faith. Fortunately, I kept in touch with the family and was attracted to the church since middle school. After I studied other faiths to make sure Catholicism was really the route I wanted to take. I was confirmed at 18 my freshman year in college.

I definitely agree with you DWAlphaGam. I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but never really followed the faith. My parents weren't big church goers and I was really only baptized to make my maternal grandmother happy (big hispanic Roman Catholic woman). My sister on the other hand became very involved with church at the end of middle school and went through confirmation and everything. I certainly believe in God and and the basic teaching of morality but a lot of the "rules" and ceremony involved with many religions, I think, can ruin that for some people. I am a big believer in the idea that you can have a relationship with God and be a good person without claiming any faith in particular or going to church every week.

I was raised in the Catholic Church, the only one of 3 brothers that still practices (it wasn't forced on us at all). I went to a Catholic HS and was actually given the opportunity there to debate a lot of church philosophy. There, I was introduced to Aquinas.

If you're Catholic you should check out Summae Theologica (you might want to get a condensed version or a book about it since it's 26 volumes). St. Thomas Aquinas actually reconciles most of the Catholic Doctrine at that time with Aristotalian Logic. Much of his reasoning is very sound -- there's still something of a leap of faith, but I think that Aquinas makes it more tolerable.

I don't agree with 100% of what my church believes (who does?) nor would I consider myself to be a perfect Catholic.

I haven't been going to Church lately but might actually start going if I can find a job that doesn't require me to work Sundays. If I ever have kids they will definitely be raised in the church. If I get married, I'd like to have that done in the church as well.

Thank you! I'm Buddhist, and to me, Buddhism does not include a belief in God or any other supreme being. I was going to say something like what you said, although not nearly as well as you've said it.

just for the record
 

I believe our soul is energy. I believe energy never dies it changes form. When we die, depending on the energy we posses (be it negative or positive), THAT will determine how strong the force that draws us to the purest energy (God) and how close to him we will be. Now I don't know where this thinking would fall, but
I do consider myself very spiritual.

Question on Buddhism. Do you believe in the different levels of
atonement (Is it 7???) and if not, what faith is that?

Second-Once we die, if you do NOT believe in a Supreme Power
and you suddenly discover their is ONE GOD, do you think you are in serious trouble and banned to hell, or will you be forgiven?
My take refers back to the positive and negative energy you have acquired during your life.

St. Thomas Acquiness (sp?) said it is better to question, seek answers and return a believer than to never question at all.
The faith of a seeker has been tested and so it goes the faith is stronger.

I agree! I think somepeople get weird when you ask questions about their faith because they don't know the answers themselves and it will display their ignorance/insecurities. Also, some authority figures have a real issue with admitting they are wrong. I certainly don't hvae all of the answers about my faith, but I don't have a problem with someone asking! If I don't know I'll try to find out.

Wow Justamom, that was pretty deep. I always wondered how believers of ____ (insert your faith here) would react if they found out ______ was the real religion.

*edited b/c i left out justamoms name. ;)

I am a Christian - I became one at 5 years old. I have always believed in God, that Jesus is God's son, He died and rose to save us from sin, etc. I have not always been as strong in my faith and practiced it to the extent that I should, but I believe that God is gracious and good and forgiving. Something that people tend to forget about churches when they decide to go off on a tirade: Churches are full of PEOPLE. People don't become perfect and less human when they practice a religion or faith, yet sometimes a person can be so quick to blast them for offenses that the person theirself is practicing. I don't agree with everything my church teaches, and I believe that it is the responsibility for every person to give a thorough and intelligent answer when asked why they believe what they believe.
My brother grew up southern baptist, and now thinks he's Catholic. He goes to Mass once a year, and married a Catholic girl (who was not practicing) and my nephew was christened in a Catholic church. Evidently, all this makes him Catholic. :rolleyes:

When I was 7, I was baptized in the Lutheran church where my parents were married, mostly because my grandmother threw a fit when she found out I wasn't. It's not to say that I didn't believe in God, or that my whole family didn't go to church... I guess it just slipped my parents mind. It was a very happy day for me and although I wasn't the biggest expert on religion at age 7, it held some very good memories and I was proud to be baptized.

I continued to believe and grow spiritually throughout adolesence. We switched to a popular non-denominational church, Willow Creek Community Church (I'm mentioning this because, believe it or not, a lot of people have heard of it). They do "baby dedications" because they want it to be the person's choice and based on a lot of thought. Basically the parents promise to raise their child to know Christ so that they can make the decision when they're older.

When I was 18, I chose to be rebaptized though. I made a big step when I was 15, even though I had thought all along that Jesus was my savior, it was then that I publicly proclaimed it and truly felt like I had dedicated myself.

I'd say that being baptized when you are old enough to make the decision yourself is definitely important. Being educated as a child is also important too, but if the decision isn't your own, or something you're not ready for, then I don't think you truly believe, and (IMHO of course) God doesn't want to force you into faith because he wants you to truly love him, not just be forced to.

And I'm sorry if this was super preachy "the story of astroAPhi's life", but I've had a really good experience and I like to share it in hopes that people will understand my point of view better. :)

Re: Re: Religion question...
 

I completely agree. I attend a Pentacostal church and my pastor does the same thing when a young person goes to the alter to "give their life to Christ", he make sure that it's the young person's decision and not because Mommy, Daddy or Grandma told them to. Dedicating one's life to Christ should be a willing, voluntary action.

I think it's great when people wait til they're "mature" to dedicate themselves to their religion (if their faith requires such a thing). I think a little bit of testing beforehand is a good idea because especially in churches which emphasize emotions over reason, people get caught up in stuff, and then backslide pretty quickly. That not only hurts the person but reflects badly on his/her faith. I find it fascinating that in Judaism (traditionally) a person who approaches a synagogue to convert is refused up to 3 times, to test their conviction. Some people say "Oh how harsh and unwelcoming!" But I bet it keeps out the "religious nuts". At my mosque some of the ladies will work to help anyone convert. They've "converted" about 4 people who have certifiable mental problems. According to Islam, those who are insane or mentally incapable are not accountable to God for their actions. It's an embarrassment for me and my faith, and these people don't even realize they've converted. One lady shows up at the mosque in shorts and a tank top and a bandana tied around her head. Another calls people and asks what religion she is. Another talks about "the blood of christ" at the mosque. :eek:

That's true. I was not formally "refused", but the first rabbi I approached really, really, REALLY didn't want to work with potential Jews-by-choice (an odd attitude for a campus chaplain!) so he set ridiculous requirements - he told me I'd have to learn Yiddish :rolleyes: among other things. I found another rabbi. :p

Judaism also does not proselytize. Jews don't go out and seek converts; you have to go to them.

And that is why I have an utmost respect for Judaism. I cannot stand proselytizing. If somebody wants to be your religion, seek them out. Don't force them to convert - a lot of my friends "converted" because they got talked into it - they have no idea of the difference between being Catholic and, oh, say Mormon.

Apparently a few years ago Campus Crusade for Christ showed up on Marquette's campus and tried to convert. They weren't very successful, and the Jesuits had a field day with them.

Neither does Catholicism!

Every once in a while we get a pamphlet on our apartment door with a drawing of people burning in hell and a phone # to contact a man who can help us be 'saved'.........whatever, like that's really gonna convince me :rolleyes:

Oh, I won't hang that up anymore. ;)

I'm glad that Catholicism doesn't. I don't believe Lutherans do, but one Lutheran I know is certainly the exception. The other night at a bonfire he was going on a tirade about how all non-Lutherans were rotting in Hell, in a group of a bunch of Catholics (and one other Lutheran) who had a good friend from high school, a step-father, a boyfriend, and several grandparents die in the last two years - none of whom were Lutheran. I was going to yell at him, but then realized he would never change his mind, so I just got up and left.

Ugh, that's what pisses me off about denominations of Christianity. Some people seem to forget that they're worshipping God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit, not the stupid little technicalities that keep us apart.

(I realize that I might anger some people by calling them stupid little technicalities, but it's more stupid that people let them become such a big issue.)

Actually....all Christian faiths are supposed to proselytize, regardless of the denomination. I am not a Bible quoter, but I do recall being taught that the Bible teaches us that all Christians are supposed to spread the word and their belief in Jesus as the Savior. Someone who knows their Bible verses well, please feel free to help me out with this one! However, how you interpret that varies on denominational beliefs and personal beliefs. I personally do not put out pamphlets and tell people they will burn in hell for this or that, but I will stand up for my beliefs when challenged and will gladly share them with anyone who has questions. Some Christian groups do believe in "preaching" all the time, though. But, as I said, I do think that it is a Christian teaching that you should spread the word (although I guess maybe some don't consider that actually trying to get converts...)

Did any of that make sense?!?! I hope so! :)

I was baptised methodist. Then didn't go to church for a while then went back and it was totally different and, in my opioion, wrong. Altar boys in shorts, etc. So much for that. I was never confirmed into anything.

I am a Buddhist now, but have my own ideas about it.

What a fascinating discussion!

First, xo_kathy, I think you mean the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) "Therefore go and make disciples of many nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit..."

My road started with my parents: my dad's family was Lutheran or Christian Scientist, my mama's family was Baptist. They tried all of the options, and discovered that they were both happiest with the Baptist church. They were immersed one Sunday and married the next - I find that SO romantic!

For those who are so darn interested in my family, my parents had dated for three years prior to their mutual immersion. The commitment of immersion requires pastoral counseling.

I was dedicated a Baptist, but we moved far away from a Baptist church, so we started attending a Presbyterian church. The neighborhood was a little Belfast - none of the Catholic kids were permitted to even play with we non-Catholics who were going to hell, courtesy of a rabid Sister Dom Bosco! I had to be water-sprinkled before 6th grade confirmation. One of the pastors there started a non-denominational church, which we attended until it self-destructed (long story). There was not one bit of theology at that church with which I disagreed, so its demise was really a blow to me.

I want to interrupt myself to say that while I was growing up, I was encouraged to attend as many types of services as I wanted. The last I counted, I had been to 23 different sects or religions. This was a great blessing, as how do you really know if you want to be part of ANY given church or religion without experiencing it on a personal level? I fully believe in infant dedication and then baptism/confirmation/conversion only upon making a commitment to whichever church or religion as an adult.

My brother is a part-time missionary (nondenominational), and both of my parents did part-time evangelism. I have been commissioned at a nondenominational church as a facilitator & counselor, but I am a member of a Baptist church. I fully believe in this church's theology, and "I was glad when they said unto me, let us go to the House of the Lord!" I taught Sunday School for 12 years, and usually got the middle school kids - the ones who are starting to question, and need to see different religions. I've found a rabbi who encourages an "exchange program" where his teacher will talk with my kids, and I will talk with theirs. After all, without Judeaism, Christianity has no foundation!

When I started attending my current church, I made an appointment to talk to the pastor about membership. He has since teased me that usually, the pastor interviews the prospective member, but I interviewed him! He was thrilled that I knew what my beliefs are, and would only consider joining a church that would satisfy my theology.

To know me is to know that I am a believing Christian, and while I stumble at times, I do my best to uphold my beliefs. I am at peace. Somehow, I must manage to come off as non-judgemental, because friends who have come out of the closet or had an abortion feel comfortable with discussing this with me - even though they know how I feel. While it hurts to hear about an abortion, it's more important that the love of God is shown. I hope I don't sound too sanctimonious about all this!

As for the funeral bit, I would agree with whomever said that it was the pastor's delivery that was wrong, not the message. Weddings & funerals which are conducted in a church should not be expected to be "watered down" for the benefit of others, and I would question a church that did. If you're uncomfortable with that, please don't plan on attending my funeral! :)


(edited for puncuation & purient interests)

Thank you, honeychile! That's it!

I enjoyed the rest of your post as well.

And I would like to say I am proud of us that we are keeping it to a "this is what I believe" type of a discussion and not a "See, that's where you ___(insert religion here)___ are so wrong!!!" discussion! :D