My point isn't that there are people who don't know about "greekdom". No dobt there are those people, my point is that you shouldn't be willing to do something that amounts to endorsement (ie wearing t-shirts, doing calls, hand signs ect) without knowing what it means.

I think people are missing this point because we are using it in reference to something as "small" and (to some) "petty" as greekhood. But if someone were to walk down the street wearing a swastika (sp?) and said that they were wearing it because it was a "pretty design" (I liked the fraternity/sorority's colors), you wouldn't buy it. You are held accountable for the things which you choose to associate yourself with. Because of this you should know what the colors and symbols that you wear on your body mean.

In terms of a lot of questions about what my letters mean, I expect that and really rather enjoy it. It gives me a chance to brag, http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif and at least I know that that person had the good sense to ASK what something means rather than just go out and get a shirt and find out the hard way.

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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown

I'm deviating a bit from the topic here, however it is very sad that the swastika now has such negative connotations because of the the Nazi regime. It was (and still is) used in many forms in the Hindu Indian culture to represent positive things...however, even knowing this, my own default reaction is shock, when I do see a swastika. It's a horrible example of how a symbol has become twisted to represent completely opposite of what it truly means, and the misrepresentation has so thoroughly pervaded social consciousness.

I guess the moral of the story is definitely in keeping with the point of discussion: educate yourself about the symbols you see around you, and what they mean to the symbol's originators or owners. And furthermore, don't assume that just because you see a symbol(s), you can make a blanket assumption about what/who you see associated with it.

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equeen
A Lioness has her Pride!
@>--;--
Alpha Sigma Kappa - Women in Technical Studies

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited July 14, 2000).]

Let's not pretend. First off, we KNOW some people just don't CARE what the shirt says! I know quite a few people who don't know a Greek from a Bi-State Bus. People act so haughty sometimes. If you read what true? was saying, you'd know that it DOES have some merit. As far as 'knowing what you wear on your body means', if we were heading that, then all of these clothes with Chinese symbols on them wouldn't be so popular. People wear what they like, and what something means to you may not be the same thing that it means to another person. Case in point: Erykah Badu wears a headwrap b/c she feels that it connects her with her roots. Someone else might wear one because it matches their outfit. That DOESN'T mean that they're an Erykah Badu PERP, does it? You can't assume that everyone is a PERP. Some folks don't know. As far as the situation w/the Omega and the homeless guy...my daddy always told me that Fair Exchange Ain't No Robbery. True that he may have wanted to get the shirt off the homeless guy's back, but what he did was still commendable. The bottom line is that you can't expect people to feel the way that you feel about something that they know little or nothing about. You can't TAKE the shirt off of someone's back. You don't have that right. If that was the case, then paraphrenalia shouldn't be available to the general public. And NO, I am not a perp.

One of my brothers was in Japan last summer, and he went into a pawn shop or used clothing store or something. In the shop, he saw a LCA wind jacket, and a Delta Sigma Phi Letters Jersey. He bought the jacket because he'd wanted one and it was nice and cheap. He could have bought the jersey too, come back to the states and walked around his hometown sporting it, or wreaked havok in it and Delta Sig's would have been blamed. He just left it there though. I'll bet in other countries those letters don't mean much, if anything to anyone except those who went to college in the states, and cared enough to learn what it meant.

I would assume that some Japanese person probably was in the fraternity mentioned but it didn't mean much when he got back to his homeland, or he bought the shirt here because he liked the "design" then got rid of it. Same goes for the LCA jacket.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

I am being soooo petty here, but...where in the post did it say the man was an Omega? Perhaps I missed it. It really doesn't matter what he was...just asking.

At first I was pissed at true?'s response, but I do have to agree with some things he/she said.

There is a huge difference between people who are TRUE PERPS and family members throwing on a shirt just to go out to the garage to get something...a family member driving a car with a license plate or grabbing the keys with the keychain. PERPS are people consciously representing a frat/sorority (with nalia, calls, hand signals, etc)...and usually are knowledgable about the fact that what they are doing is WRONG. These people RUN the other way if you say "Hey, soror." Sweat if you ask them history. Not homeless people/family members. I agree that we may feel that we are "saving" certain people from embarrassment by "suggesting" they don't wear the shirt/take the umbrella. If I suggest something like this, that is usually my reasoning...NOT "You don't understand my letters...I earned them...you did not...how dare you disrespect. etc., etc.

Then again every woman in my family is a DST so we never really had to worry http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

My Zeta aunt wouldn't be caught dead with some other letters...you know what I mean.
PEACE

"Then again every woman in my family is a DST so we never really had to worry"

I'm sorry, I have to say that this is amazing! I am the first person in my family to go to college so you can understand why this is unheard of to me. That's wonderful!

I'm sorry for straying from the topic at hand; I just had to say that. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

EXACTLY. For that matter, we don't know what the crest means on Tommy Hilfiger clothes, or what the horse means on Ralph Lauren Polo, or the sheep on Brooks Brothers, but we wear it anyway, with little care towards what those symbols mean. The same goes for people wearing Greek letters...it's a shame, but we can all be considered guilty of it in some way, shape, or form.

Thank you, I am the original poster of that story and I beleive I did not mention an organization, so I wouldn't have to go through the what this or that org stands for.
A person who posted after me said that sounds like an Omega man and it just took off from there....lol

But I beleive that the moral of that story was that for those that don't understand, educate them and then everything will probably be fine.

But I feel that that should exemplify what every man should be like and it is what many greek men are like.

Anyhow for the record the man I was talking about was an Phi Beta Sigma

You're right, I don't know what any of those things mean.. and I don't wear them!!!!! For a very short time I owned stock in the parent company of Jones of New York, and that is the only "name brand" that I care to display across my chest. Also, don't assume that because a practice is wide-spread that it is unavoidable or right (think lemming). So because we have allowed our culture to degrade to the point that you are willing to display anything that "looks cool", I'm am supposed to further add to the chaos by adding my greek letters to the "meaningless symbol but cool colors" pile? NO!!!

PS. I'm the one that incorrectly attributed the young mans actions to Omega Psi Phi, I heard Bruh, and thought Omega. Sorry http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Gina_lynn,
While I think what the Omega brother did was admirable, I think you are missing some of the reality of what True? is saying. I have distributed clothes to the homeless before and 9 times out of 10 what is on their minds as they are picking out clothes is: 1) is it clean? 2) does it fit? I have yet to hear anyone ask what the little horsie thingie is, say I don't wear X-brand because of their history of supporting certain causes etc. When you are trying to be clean/warm/dry etc. the 'design' (which is what the greek letters are going to mean to some) on the shirt is quite insignificant. The larger question in that example is, in my opinion, why did someone who obviously knew the significance of the 'design' feel it was o.k. to give it to Goodwill, a clothes closet,etc? Of course it could have been a family member of the fraternity member, but it would still seem to me that they would know.

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited July 14, 2000).]

Eclipse:...And that's why Greeks need to dispose of paraphenalia according to their organization's guidelines, to avoid confusion.

True?: I'm interested to know if you have purchased clothing for homeless people, "just because." So what if the Omega MAY HAVE BEEN (he's not on the board, so we can't ask him what was on his mind) stopping to see about this man because there was a possibility he was his fraternity brother? A blessing still came out of the situation.

All: The real challenge is to all "get off our high horses" and find SOLUTIONS, not SALVES to the homelessness crisis in our country. Putting on a few clothing drives or volunteering at a shelter ain't gonna cut it any more. If anyone in the Chicago area is interested in being part of the solution, I can direct you to a number of organizations that are in the trenches.

DG

[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited July 14, 2000).]