AXJules I love you signature! Some peole on Greek Chat are too funny! ;)

LOL thanks.
I just wanted to have a truthful signature that reflected my opinions..and after spending some time here I think its humorous yet accurate, lol...

True. True.

I stopped by a LXA chapter in California just to visit and see what the members were like.

It just so happened I stopped by during rush - so, I did what any BROTHER should do - introduced myself, rolled up my sleeves, and starting rushing prospective members...I doubt IFC at that campus or other fraternity chapters would have made a fuss.

It seems the mindset of the opposed chapters are of typical "freshmen" greek mentality. I'm not judging, I thought that way too once, you know, "If all the other chapters just folded, we'd rule the campus. By sophomore year you dont think this as much, and start to make a few friends outside of your house and a few in other houses. By junior year you start to see some common things with a few other houses, and make freinds from class or get on IFC/Panhel with people from other chapters and realize you have a lot in common with them, as greeks. Finally, by your senior year your really good friends with some peeps from other chapters, you know the struggles of their houses, and they know the issues your house faces. You bounce ideas off of each other and are really grateful for their friendship. You also understand that the university would never bother to have you around if there werent enough of you to justify the office of greek life.

Just sounds liek the girls who oppose it are "immature" in the bigger sphere of the greek community. We've all had our ups and downs. The problem with some of todays undergraduates is the they HAVE NO ORGANIZATIONAL MEMORY. They dont remember anythign beyond 3 years in the organization, yet carry the banner of "tradition" (which to an undergrad, means it was done once or twice before), but yet have no concept that all orgs have, at one time or another, helped each other out.

I agree you and your chapter are showing true panhellenic spirit ! I know that when I went through rush... (although it was informal) at open house one of the houses had members from a nearby school talking to us. I don't think there is anything against the rules about it and it was classy of the chapter to let everyone know what was going on. I can't believe that there are chapters who aren't supporting this. I mean there's really nothing they can do about it anyway.. since the chapter bringing in visitors has already told Panhel, I'm sure they'll tell the rushees... so the larger houses telling the PNMs they are being rushed by sisters who don't belong to the chapter they would be joining is moot anyway, but it is sad these chapters are acting out of such a non panhellenic spirit. :(

I don't know. I think the other chapters are still capable of causing a lot of damage to that chapter. If it was left up to the chapter to do so, they could make it sound very positive while still maaking it clear that not all are members of the chapter. The other groups can, and probably would, spin it very negatively. I could see that making all the difference in the world.

When I was in school, I knew every Brother there. I knew every Brother for many years afterward.

My question is very simplistic, how in the hell can Members know everyone of a 100/200 member chapter!

That to me is NOT a Greek Organization but a Club with Greek Letters and a National Headquarters.

Just where is the Brother/Sister Hood?

Yea BIG (:confused: ) Schools! " Be a number not a person is my motto!"

Give me My Gorillas, screw the Cornhuskers, Semiwholes, Soonests, Trojans, Buuffalos, Steers, Tardheels, Huskers, Bookeyed, and all of the rest!

Give me small and give me freedom!:cool:

Random question
 

I have personally never gone through formal rush, so I honestly don't know what everything is like. I do, however, know it's a time for the sisters to get to know the PNM's.

If one of the sisters of say, ABC sorority were in one of the larger houses and talking to a PNM, *why on earth* would they be telling the PNM about the XYZ house who is rushing with women from a nearby chapter when they should be concentrating on their own rush and talking to the PNM's about ABC???? From what I understand, conversations are very short during formal, so why would they spend all their time talking terrible about XYZ?

Re: Random question
 

Unfortuantely girls DO do this, and it's simply because they're immature and shallow. Recruitment around here is just a big competition to see who can get the best and biggest pledge class. And if that means telling the girls that you really want all the dirty secrets of another house, well then that's what they do. A lot of our greek life here is based on image and unfortunately a lot of these girls who are rushing do what most would do and go with who has the best image. Girls in these top houses really don't seem to care a whole lot who they hurt as long as they're ok. Sad but true. :(

It basically is a cattle call where most of the Sows put on the bestest food/foot forward, smile, and bad mouth all of the other Greek Orgs!!!!! Wrong?

Just go find a copy of Animal House!!!!!!:)

Check it out!!!

Weenier, jugdish, and anyother stereotypes you could play on.

I just love how everyone plays on that movie, !!!!!:p For the negative only of course!:rolleyes:

I don't remember who the name of who started this thread (it's gotten pretty long), but I wish there were more people like you on our campus. Some of the people in charge of panhellenic at my school are so concerned with expansion (we're adding another sorority this fall), that they think there is not point in helping out a chapter here who may be in trouble. I've even heard that it has been said that there is no point in helping this chapter, so we might as well let them fall off. Pretty crappy if you ask me. I'm glad you actually want to help the other chapters at your campus.
The idea of letting people rush potentials that aren't from that chapter can get tricky. Before I was ever at my campus, A chapter here was in trouble, and supposedly had girls from other chapters on campus rushing girls!!! :eek: I can definately understand girls from that sorority on other campuses coming to help, but girls from different sororities??? That can only confuse the potentials.
Lindsey

My chapter uses almunae and girls from other chapter to serve refreshments and things like that. We need it, too. We'll have about 25-30 girls in the fall, while the other chapters have at least 100.

We had a bad experience with ISC (Panhellenic) this year. We were supposed to get 12 girls from formal rush, but ISC told everyone to be there at the wrong time...so when the girls got there, there was no one. I think a lot of the girls were very upset because we're the smallest group...and when they called out our name and revealed the Rho Gammas, nobody really cheered. It was very disheartening...especially after we found out some of the Rho Gammas had told girls that we take EVERYONE.

I'm sorry you had a bad expirience Sarah. I wish you all the best of luck in this years rush. I hope it goes really well! :D

Which chapter is in trouble? I have a friend in Sigma Kappa at Mizzo and we have talked about all the greek stuff at both our campuses.

Gosh, that attitude stinks. A chapter at our school had to do the same thing - they didn't keep it a secret from their members. Our chapter had to go to another DG chapter in Alabama to help them with recruitment once.

I think if anything it shows that your sisterhood extends beyond just your chapter, but toher sisters from places are willing to help out too.

We recently got a new Greek advisor and she's really cool....this isn't her doing, but XYZ's nationals. It's been a problem for years and they're having problems financially now.

The thing that I hate, which I know isn't controllable, are the articles in our campus newspaper about XYZ. I mean, it's news, and from a journalist's perspective I know it's fair game, but anyone who reads our paper and will be going through Rush not only knows that XYZ is in trouble, but that other houses think they're "cheating".
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr :mad:

OH GOD!!! I totally know how you feel, our newspaper just pisses me off, they can be so obnoxious sometimes. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! :mad: :mad:

So let me get this straight. The school newspaper is talking about XYZ bringing sisters from another chapter to help rush and is calling it cheating? What business do they have even bringing it up, much less editorializing about it? Hmm, that's funny, they did that to us, too.Agreed. I wish you all could come give our Panhel lessons.

Re: Why is this happening?!?!
 

Damn. 240 isn't a chapter, that's a small village. I wonder if half of them know the other are sisters?

Re: Re: Why is this happening?!?!
 

:eek: no kidding! If anything, it's pretty obvious the other groups aren't hurting in numbers.. nor will they hurt in numbers if XYZ gets help from a neighboring chapter for recruitment. I don't understand why they don't just support XYZ :(

I also think it's ridiculous that the newspaper is getting involved too. But if that campus newspaper is anything like mine, when they need filler space for their pages, they will just write stuff up at other people's expense :(

It's funny you brought this up because one of the chapters at my school is in this same position. They've been struggling for a few years and the past couple they've had other chapters from nearby schools come in to help with recruitment. Granted we only have five chapters on campus and we average about 90 girls each, this one only has about 40 or 50. They also don't have a house to fill. But as I was saying, granted out houses and overall greek system isn't as big as Mizzou's none of our chapters here had a problem with other chapters helping out the one that's hurting. The other houses on your campus who are opposed to letting XYZ sorority have multiple chapters help them at recruitment aren't showing very much greek unity. The also are obviously not thinking about the good of the greek system at your school as a whole. Those houses need to remember that you are only as strong as your weakest house.

Court

I am not sure if this is an appropriate course of action, but can you get the local or regional chapter of NPC involved? Would that be appropriate? It sound like some of those groups need a lesson in panhellenic spirit.

The thing is, no one's really doing anything....I mean I know doing nothing is as bad as doing something....but there is not one chapter on our campus who has a favorable opinion of XYZ.....mostly because, IMO, they needed serious help or removal years ago and at this point it's like, it's too late. I mean I seriously think my house and FAB's are like the only two who would be willing to help them out......and FAB I don't know about you but don't you just get that feeling like "Hey we're willing to help but it's not gonna do any good" ?


And sorry if I was misleading about the campus paper. They're not getting involved and accusing them of cheating, but they've reported that they're going to close unless they reach 55 and quoted some girls of the more "elite" sororities who didn't think it was fair. Since Greektown is off campus but on campus (did that make sense???) of course they're going to cover it.....one of those things where you wish they could have a heart but in all fairness, they have a right to report it. I just wish they didn't take the angle they did.

I went through rush in 2002 and later found out the chapter I chose would be closing because of numbers and finances. We had around 50 sisters, the next smallest sorority was 70, the largest was around 120, and our internationals felt we werent having an "alpha phi experience" During rush, a lot of the other groups that were competeing with Alpha Phi were talking down our sorority ( I experienced this) Our panhellenic wrote a letter to the internationals asking them to allow us to remain and all but one chapter signed the letter.

Honestly, I think our house had a large part to do with rush because only 6 people could live there compared to 30 something people in other homes. Two chapters have massive off campus places and the rest were University owned homes on Frat court.

In the end, we beat the other groups in Lip Sync (which is huge at NCSU) and basically went out with a bang and having the most mixers with any fraternity. i still feel a lot of resentment to some of the other people in sororities that I first handedly had bad experiencings with. (one girl asked how much dues were going to be for my group and then went OH yeah you guys don't exist anymore"

I lvoe the girls i run into now that tell me they admired my groups sisterhood though. Its really just a mixture from chapters some are supportive and some are super nasty.

Originally posted by AXJules

Quote:

The thing is, no one's really doing anything....I mean I know doing nothing is as bad as doing something....but there is not one chapter on our campus who has a favorable opinion of XYZ.....mostly because, IMO, they needed serious help or removal years ago and at this point it's like, it's too late. I mean I seriously think my house and FAB's are like the only two who would be willing to help them out......and FAB I don't know about you but don't you just get that feeling like "Hey we're willing to help but it's not gonna do any good" ? And sorry if I was misleading about the campus paper. They're not getting involved and accusing them of cheating, but they've reported that they're going to close unless they reach 55 and quoted some girls of the more "elite" sororities who didn't think it was fair. Since Greektown is off campus but on campus (did that make sense???) of course they're going to cover it.....one of those things where you wish they could have a heart but in all fairness, they have a right to report it. I just wish they didn't take the angle they did.

Jules-
I totally agree with you! I know our chapter really wants to help them but we get the same kind of feeling "Will it really do any good?" It's such a sad thing, but it just doesn't seem like anything is happening with them. I really hope recruitment goes ok for them, though I also think it's a little bit too late for them as well, which is really sad. :(

A big house speaks out
 

I know this is an old thread but we are members of one of Mizzou's largest houses on campus and one that had many problems with xyz's proposal. We thought everyone might want to know why we think the things we do, and it's not what you think. We feel no threat by these extra girls we are actually trying to protect the PM's going through recruitment. There are 55 xyz's returning not counting the straw pole our house did with our xyz friends (and yes we have them we have always reached out to help other houses in any way we can) finding as many as 10 planned to not return as members this fall. Yes these women obviously need help with only 45 of them, it would be one girl to every PM (which means there is acutally no way they could hot box, whoever said that is confused it has to be 3 or more sorority members on one PM not vice versa). Anyway it would take a huge new member pledge class for them to not get their charter pulled. When our president talked to them they said they planned to immediatly innitiate these girls regardless of if they were close to target number or not. This would mean that all those PM's would be innitiated and then the charter would be pulled and they would have been greek for all of 10 minutes and not be able to rush again. Our president tried to persuade them to hold off on initiation or talk to nationals and lower their target number, they refused both. Last year when they had help they just had filler girls, who didn't speak to NM's. This year they will have the non mizzou girls speak to the girls, and will not announce to the girls until the last or second to last day of recruitment that all of them are not from Mizzou. It was our idea to have them have other name tags but they declined. As far as telling girls during rush about xyz, that will not happen at our house. We never speak of other sororitys unless refering to anual social events with them. Even though we are a larger so called "elite" house we too have to combat the nasty rumors other houses spread about us. We just wanted you all to know we did not apose it to be hatefull, and we do want to be helpfull. In fact the last two years we have gone to XYZ on pan hel mock rush and offered them many suggestions, we invite them to our house to see our style as well. We also offered to do this with Phi Mu last year but it never happend. We would love if XYZ would remain on campus, but we don't believe being decietful to new members and possibly robbing them of a greek experience all together is the way to do it. We hope we didn't offend any one, we just want people to see where we are coming from, we have spent hours and hours working through this in our house (thats a lot for people who suposidly don't care!)

Wow ! this all boggles my mind coming from a school where the largest GLO in campus has only about 45 members, having that be considered a failing chapter is amazing. NE WAY... I understand that this sorority shouldn't be deceiving this PNMs by letting them think all these XYZs are sisters from that chapter... BUT... the whole initiation thing doesn't make much sense... I mean they have to have a new member period... they can't just initiate the next day... and if they don't bid enough girls... the nationals will know and pull the charter... which means that they will not be around to initiate anyway, right ? so it seems to me the only way for the new women to be initiated is if there is enough of them to sastify the requirement put on them by their national org. I mean I *personally* feel that having chapters with over 200 people is kinda ridicllous... I mean sure you *can* have sisterhood... but I'd have to argue that it makes it harder with that many women, plus it makes being able to take on an leadership role that much more competetive and part of being in a sorority is having the opportunity to be a leader of some sort and being involved...those are two of the things that keep women around for a lifetime, not just be there for four years to wear the letters. If this chapter survives it seems to me that the whole greek system would be stronger because all the chapters would have more to offer their sisters in terms of opportunuties and experience because hopefully the numbers would be more evenly spread out.

Re: A big house speaks out
 

Mizzougal-

Thank you for saying something about the other side. It is not your house that bothers me b/c knowing what I do about your chapter I would never have expected you guys to be anything less than supportive. You guys are in my opinion anyway, the top house on our campus mainly b/c you're so well rounded and yall are great at everything you do and I think that's awesome. :) It's just some of those....other houses, I'm sure you probably know which ones I might be talking about that bother me. :)

The only thing is, sometimes calling for backup doesn't help. One chapter on my campus has been having some serious number problems for a few years now (literally...they only got 1 new girl from formal rush this past year, and not many more from informal), and I know when I went through recruitment (Jan 2002), other members were brought in from another state school to assist this chapter with recruitment. It was a good idea, in theory, it would make them look like they had more people and avoid some of the double/triple rushing problems. But I spoke to some of the other girls going through recruitment, and some of the girls who rushed them were girls from the other school. To the PNMs, this was a big red flag, plus it made the whole thing seem pretty disorganized since the girls from the other school didn't seem to know a lot about the local chapter's operations/activities/etc...Not their fault though, it's not their school. This year, the chapter will not be participating in formal recruitment, and I believe they are reorganizing or recolonizing (yes, I do realize there's a difference, but I'm not sure which they are doing) and are expected to return in a couple of years. It's sad, but personally I think they should have done this a couple of years ago, before it got to this point. :(

That is one of our major concens is what will they say when asked about mizzou experiences. Plus it is inevitable that they will hear about it somehow and ask not just XYZ but us too. We are trying to figure out what the classiest response to them will be. Do you lie, tell the truth, dismiss the question? Rumors during rush are really bad, we get girls asking if we have a 5.0 gpa requirment ...on a 4.0 scale? or they heard we have a glitter factory in the basement and the nm's have to run it (we glitter everything that stands still long enough), so I bet the rumor mill on this one will be way out of control. I can't speak for all the houses that oppose this but I know mine is just worried about the PNM's.

And yes they are planning to innitiate right away after a short pledgeship....this was our major concern. I think they even talked about multiple innitiations as far as getting girls after formal rush. Alpha Phi had problems on campus a few years ago and they took a break and came back right before my freshman year and now they are really going strong. Mizzou has a strange problem we have too many girls we could use more sororitys but at the same time we have a few really struggling and another handful that are not in the best shape. So we have to figure out how to fix that before we have 5 500 person houses!

And being in a chapter of 200+ girls is really not that bad. You get to know a whole lot of people and you are close with a lot of them...not all of them, but there are so many girls that each bring something different to your relationship and challenge you in so many ways.


Thank you so much FAB*SpiceySpice your words about our chapter were so nice...We hope you were talking about THETA! :) We have a lot of respect for everything your chapter has gone through to become what it has on campus, you and Lambda Chi both did an amazing job!!!

Thank you so much! And yes I was definately talking about Theta, I just think you girls are so awesome!!! By the way, I am so jealous of all your guys' glitter, my girls don't ever want to glitter anything but I insist on it, I think it's so fun. :D

I still don't understand how they can get away with initiation after not a full (at least 4 weeks is the minimum I have heard of for any NPC org...) new member period. I know our national checks up on that and we have to get permission to initiate before and turn in signed bid cards and everything, so they know if we're breaking the rules about length of pledging. Now as for having multiple initiations... there's nothing wrong with that... it's uncommon... but if you are allowed to take on COBs... you can technically do that all semester and initiate them after their pledge period... it takes some work on the dates so that the new member period is long enough.. (ours is around 6 weeks) but my chapter did two initiations this past spring... there's no rules against it that I know of... I def. see a problem if they plan on shortening the new member period past what their national rules say it should be...

wow i'm amazed at how this thread has gone, i have to say though that the reason that that chapter wants to initiate quickly is probably because their nationals is making them. my chapter was put in the situation where we had to recruit 30 women and initiate them in a little over a month to stay on campus. this was what we ere told by our nationals. we chose instead to opt for recolonization in a year, but i'm proud of these women and the way they are fighting to stay on campus. realize that these women want to pnms to have the greek experience and that they probably don't want to rush hte new member process but htey need to in order to meet a deadline set by their nationals. if the pnms are so mad about the deception when it comes to talking with women who aren't a member of mizzou's chapter of the org then they will drop them. i jsut hope everything works out wiht the whole situation.

I would come up with an appropriate, panhellenic answer and have EVERY MEMBER memorize it. It's not good to lie, it's not your business to talk about, so I would find a graceful way to dismiss the question. Maybe steer the conversation towards Panhellenic Unity or belonging to something bigger.....

OMG, that made me laugh so hard!!! What does a glitter factory look like, anyway? Is it noisy?:D

You're right about the rumor mill...Can't you just hear some of the more...blunt PNMs asking them, "So, is it true you guys are gonna get shut down?" or asking other chapters, "So, is XYZ closing or something?"

VERY well said and I firmly agree.

I also have to add this. As an alumna of a GLO with a chapter at Mizzou (at least we did last time I checked) I would be thoroughly disgusted at our chapter for taking an attitude against a struggling chapter.

One of the chapters at my alma mater (where I am an advisor) has been struggling for years and every recruitment they are the second chapter I ask about. Losing any chapter is back for all chapters. I was a pledge when my chapter was going through the closure decision and it SUCKS.

That is exactly what we are working on right now. My chapter is not one to leave anything up to chance. We are overly organized. We will probably just say "they are a great group of girls who are rebuilding...so do you like your roomate? (that question always gets emotions going one way or the other)." I think it will be short sort of clear and then move right along. or even "our football block use to be right next to theirs they are so nice, have you been to a football game here before"

I have no idea, I have also heard an alum owns a factory, we have stock in a factory so we pay less to be members, the best rumor yet has been that the freshman cut the glitter out as part of pledgeship! Or that they seperate the colors one small piece of glitter at a time! You can barely pick up a piece of glitter let alone cut one out! Some people will believe the craziest stuff.

My chapter's been in the situation of Mizzou's XYZ, and it's not fun. Fortunately we had support, and it sounds like y'all are pulling together for XYZ. It's a shame that other chapters can't be as classy.

I personally favor the "They're a great group of girls who are rebuilding. We have lots of fun with them; our football block... yadda, yadda."

Allow me to add that I think it's indescribably trashy for one group to talk about another group during a rush party. Your rush parties should be about making you look good, not about making others look bad. And what sort of person attacks a downed rival? That's just low.

mizzou gal,

You say that people told you they were planning to disaffiliate from XYZ...UNTIL THEY DO IT, IT ISN'T DONE. As far as the girls getting to be active Greeks for all of ten minutes...as FABSS's sig says "I would rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." Those girls who pledge and are initiated quickly may decide that the friendships they made in XYZ are better than being in a house that doesn't really reach them for 4 years. Plus, multiple pledge classes are not an uncommon thing at many schools.

Unless you have heard straight from XYZ's national council exactly what they are planning to do, you do not know. They aren't doing anything outside NPC guidelines as far as rush is concerned. As far as PNMs asking questions...my understanding was that no sorority is even supposed to mention another group during rush (unless it's in passing). I am guessing you've found a way to deflect other questions about other groups. Why in the world would this be any different??

>>>Unless you have heard straight from XYZ's national council exactly what they are planning to do, you do not know. They aren't doing anything outside NPC guidelines as far as rush is concerned<<<

Amen, 33girl. You are always wise. When a chapter at my campus closed, the pledges were given the option of depledging or being initiated. While some did leave, some went ahead with initiation even though they knew they would no longer have a chapter. Their sisterhood was very important to them. I have no doubt that if there are uninitiated members and a time comes when the chapter is going to close, they will get the same option. Mizzou - I am thinking that the best answer you and your sisters could give to any question asked of you about this is "I don't know, but you might ask your Rho Chi". It is not up to your chapter to put any particular spin on the struggles of another chapter.