I have an odd feeling that recruitment was handled a bit differently for Jenna Bush.. but I could be wrong. maybe Texas-Gal could tell us. I can not imagine her with her secret service in tow during recruitment. That would not be fair to her and quite a distraction for others.

This was actually a question on my recruitment registration form in the early 90's. Your father's name and occupation, your mother's name and occupation.

I helped my little proud Miss State KD cousin fill out her recruitment registration form about this time last year for Fall '02 Formal Rush at State and it was there too... As the question is on many of the recs I obtained for her!

Of course this could be just a question only asked in the south and by certain GLOs!

Of course not -- not only is she the President's daughter, she's also a double Theta legacy!

I am a little confused by the definition of cut throat rush. My school wasn't a big greek school. We had seven sororities including one local that has since closed. About half of the rushees wanted one of three 'top' groups. The ones who were not invited back to them often dropped out of rush. That was 15% to 20% of the women who went through first round. The other four sororities had to COB, and sometimes still didn't make quota. Is this cut throat?

Re: Re: Re: Re: at my school..
 

I totally disagree. I have a very hard time believing that there are many girls who do not have something to contribute to a sorority. Sure, some of them may not shine as much during formal recruitment, but women change a lot over four years.

This reminds me of my last rush. There was a girl who was the niece of one-time VERY popular celebrity. It was VERY obvious by her unique last name. So, of course, EVERYONE was kissing her butt. I guess we all thought her uncle would come if we needed him, he's not really doing much lately! LOL!

Anyways, she ended up being a total...not very friendly person...so nobody wanted her to come back. She ended up going to another house, but we got over the star-struckedness real quickly! I can see how your background can make you a tad more desirable! But, most times it'll come down to your personality!

AdrienneDelta Gamma

Re: at my school..
 

twinstars, I'm just about 99.99999% positive we go to the same school. PM me!!

As far as "cream of the crop" rushees--I feel like there are only going to be so many gorgeous, popular, intelligent, articulant, partying, well-to-do, legacy, RIF'ed women going through rush on any campus. But just because someone's missing two, three, or four of those qualities doesn't mean they suck, IMHO. But, they're not going to go to the "top" groups.

And lastly let me say that at me and twinstars' school, yes, we ARE all up in everybody's business. Everyone is always like "Oh... you got her?? She dates this SAE.." or "Her dad is President of this" or "She was a 5-time legacy" or "She went to Westminster" etc.... :D hehe..... it's kinda sad, because I think in some ways the cut-throat nature of it here is multiplied, because we all know all the rushees, and where each and every one of them ends up, and oftentimes why.... small + greek + southern = INSANE

Re: Re: Re: at my school..
 

I have a feeling this is what makes it cutthroat from the girl's perspective. The other way around, where there are too few good girls, makes is easier for the girls themselves, since they are likely to get spots if they are nice women (even without a refrence *gasp*).

We have a problem of suiciding at my school. A lot of girls rush (MORE than enough to have quota put all sororities over total), and about half drop or don't get bids because they will only take their first choice.
-M

Texas-Gal, not sure if you saw this... I am curious, as I am sure are many! Thought you might know how UT-Austin handled rush with Jenna!

Texas-Gal,
I was just wondering what the "pecking order" of the sororities at UT is. I'm pretty clueless, I would probably have not survived rush there...I figure Theta is at the top, along with prolly Chi-O and Kappa. Vandy is of course smaller, but the Greek system is so huge and I was wondering if every school is similar. Most of the newer houses are at the bottom. I'm always curious about the pecking order at other schools and if they're all as similar as I would guess, but I expect there are some surprises.

I'm no expert but I thought the top 3 at UT were Pi Phi, Kappa, and Theta (not sure on the order among those).

There are 3 more that are right behind, including Chi-O and 2 others.

My dear sister Carnation wrote this a year ago on the LSU thread... Carnation, correct me if I am wrong since since some of this was in her book... I believe the information was posted in the Texas Monthly in the 80s? If so, things might have changed over the years... though I do not think the top three ever change at UT-Austin. Maybe Texas-Gal, if she feels comfortable can elaborate.

As for the Big 6 at UT--this was in the original Texas Monthly article and also what I've heard from scads of UT Greeks so I don't want any flames! They were listed in this order:

Pi Phi
Kappa
Theta
Chi O
Tri Delta
Zeta

A lot of it may have to do with the sororities' ages, since Pi Phi is the oldest group there.


Okay, here are some quotes from the Texas Monthly article--not from me!

Pi Beta Phi-A Pi Phi is usually at home wearing gold dinner rings at the age of 18, a gold bangle bracelet, a pair of simple gold hoops, and a sporty but chic stainless and gold Rolex. Pi Phis don't have to flaunt what they've got. When you've got everything-money, a good name, good looks, and status-what's the point?

Kappa Kappa Gamma-She too is from an old established family; she was probably a debutante from San Antonio, Dallas, or Houston; and the points she racks up in her sorority prepare her for the point system she'll labor under to make Junior League.

Kappa Alpha Theta-Being a Theta isn't like being a Pi Phi or Kappa and that's the problem: a Theta isn't a Pi Phi or Kappa. Still, it has its consolations. Thetas get to be a little more demonstrative, what you call kissy-huggy. Don't think a Theta can't stand up to a Pi Phi or Kappa; she did, after all, go to Camp Waldemar with the best of them and she traveled to Europe. She's still in the running!

Delta Delta Delta-When you look at Farrah Fawcett, you get a refined idea of what it's like to be a Tri Delt.The Tri Delta you find at a party with her perfect makeup, perfect hair, and perfect outfit invested approximately three hours' work in all that perfection.

Chi Omega-The ladies of Chi O are sweet and a little reserved, but they are closet dazzlers. The Chi O house shelters fewer true beauties than the Tri Delta house but neither is in the top 3 scholastically. The Chi Os can play just as rough as the next girl in the status game but a glimpse at the parking lot will show you that they're not the top contenders in this field either.

Zeta Tau Alpha- Zetas do try harder. Lack of effort is not why a Zeta isn't a Pi Phi. Let no one say that the Zetas don't have a look of their own. They do. Does this girl exude satisfaction with her position in life? Does she shun heavy makeup, secure in the knowledge that she has enough going for her that she can afford a perfectly natural look? Does this woman look like a Pi Phi? To her everlasting credit, she does not, and-bless her heart for trying-she never will.


Like I said--not my opinions! But the accompanying Prudence Mackintosh article is hilarious; I don't see a month or year on it but you could look up "Sisterhood is Powerful" and "That Certain Look" on the Texas Monthly website, I'll bet.

Texas is a great example of cutthroat. The list in the last post is correct as far as what people consider "top six" although you will never hear anyone in the UT PHC use those words in public.

You would think that all six of those groups would get quota at bid matching - right? Well, it used to be typical for one of those six to not make quote at bid matching, although it didn't take more than a 1/2 hour for them to snap bid to quota. The problem is that all six of these chapters are competing for the same women. I remember a few years ago when one of those groups missed quota by 13 while some of the, so-called, second tier groups made quota. It's because the PNMs end up getting "classified" unofficially based on family, neighborhood, high school, etc.

One thing that Texas did put in place a few years ago is "guaranteed placement," and "junior quota" has been in place for years. While these two things help to place the most PNM, it can have a negative impact on the smaller chapters. The big stay big, the medium sized get bigger and the small stay smaller (although smaller is still 100 members or more.) I can say that ALL of the UT NPC groups are quite selective and are very protective of their image. Despite smaller chapters "needing" women, there are many women at UTexas that will never be offered membership in a UT sorority.

As far as Jenna, to my knowledge she did not have secret service with her - at least I know that they did not enter the house when she was at our event.

A girl from my hometown was a Zeta when Lynda Johnson was in the chapter and she said that the Zetas couldn't do anything without the Secret Service breathing down their necks. They even had a room in the house!

I heard that, too. I've heard that they had to build an addition to accommodate the Secret Service but that could just be a rumor.

I'm not sure what accommodations Theta had to make when Jenna actually joined.

What about ritual? Can a chapter hold ritual and manage to keep the secret service away?

I'd hope so..Lynda's agents were men.;)

They had to go and use "bless her heart"....all you southern girls know what that means ;) My family is very southern and you always hear "bless her heart" before an insult or "oh isnt that nice" when they dont like something.

Wow, that is all positively awful! Not directed at you, A&A, but damn, I would think that would cause an uproar!

As I mentioned, at UT there is a definite pecking order among the Top 5 -

Pi Phi
Kappa
Theta

Tri Delt
Chi-O

I would say Zeta would come next, but ADPi is probably right there with them - enough so that they're practically at the same level now. The Top 3 (affectionately known as "PKT") are a significant notch above Tri Delt, who is slightly above Chi-O. I'd say in recent years Theta might have switched place with Kappa - but at that high level, it really makes no difference- they're all just "Top Three."

That pecking order is so firmly entrenched, and will remain that way - probably forever. There is no uproar because it's no secret.

Please know that none of this reflects my own personal opinions of all our houses, or their relative worth, only what is common and accepted knowledge in the UT Greek system.

Totally not PC but
 

I think it is interesting to understand what makes a chapter super at one school and not worth pledging at another. In other words, is it consistant that top sorority ABC is like THIS (rich, skinny, gorgeous) and bottom sorority CDE is like THAT (poor, fat, ugly) (I am grossly generalizing) and this pretty much determines the pecking order no matter the school or the GLO.

Are the summations above from Texas Monthly true to form? Of course, I'd personally like to know how DG stands in that pecking order (or maybe not?).

I knew that "Bless her heart" is an insult!!!! Someone on GC wrote that it isn't. Now I know the truth. You Southern gals can't put anything over on me. :p ;) lol!

bump! Good discussion topic--

I know that here at Bama, it's all about tradition.

Tradition, tradition, tradition.

And this means many things. Many things

It's also about what sororities you've heard of in your hometown. For example, North Alabama girls know of ADPi, Zeta, Alpha Gam and Phi Mu, because those are the chapters at the University of North Alabama.

There are some sororities with MULTIPLE chapters across the state, and those often do well because of name recognition.

It's also about how long you've been on campus. Old Row chapters do well because they're older and well-backed by lots of alum $$$ for Rush.

???
 

what are the "old row" chapters at bama, and what is "the machine" and which groups are (unofficial) members?

Wow! These are the most intelligent analyses of recruitment (AKA rush) that I have ever seen!

I believe Auburn is trying out this way of setting quota this year. Any comments here from Auburn Tigers? AEPhi alum, does this system work better?

To reply from the sister from FSU, "old row" at U of Alabama is a fairly recent term referring to a group of established, wealthy sororities and fraternties. They created a group that throws a couple of parties a year and each pays into the kitty for this extra frivolity. Many of these same groups make of "the Machine," a shadow organization that controls SGA elections, Homecoming queen elections etc. Its main importance comes from the fact that many young men from "the Machine" later hold high state political offices and they have l-o-n-g memories. But that's something for another thread.

interesting!
 

thanks anchoralumna!!

I'll go ahead and say that The Machine is the majority of greeks on campus at UA, though not all. Most freshmen coming in aren't aware of it, however, so I don't think it really plays into Rush. I think Old Row plays into it more, and that's more of an open thing.

The subject is definitely worthy of a completely different thread. UA is not the only school with a greek machine; it's common on many campuses. Honestly though, I feel like greeks are usually the best candidates for SGA, homecoming, honor societies, etc., though others should be included as well.

So anyway, back to the subject of the thread...

I believe (ZTAngel, Sherbertlemons, please correct me if I'm wrong) that our quota was determined solely by dividing the number of PNM's who were invited to prefs by the number of sororities. Thus if 500 women were invited back to prefs, and there are 10 sororities, quota was set at 50.

Now, of course UCF hasn't seen a quota that low since 1995... but you get my drift.

It's interesting to read what others have to say about the "pecking order." I think it exists, at some level, at UCF, but we have this marvelous cycling in and out of the perceived chapter rankings, mainly due to a huge amount of sorority expansion in a very short time. I think also, as the Greek System has grown at the university, you've seen a certain level of exclusivity go up a notch.

Don't forget about Ole Miss Rush....we have 9 NPCs, and this year there should be about 1000 girls going through rush. Last year there was about 900....quota was 86 with some houses getting up to 95...and all of the houses here do release...and it is very cut-throat...that is why they moved rush back to take place during school...when I went through rush back in 1996 it was before school started and girls would leave and transfer to Mississippi State or Alabama and go through rush there and get into the house they wanted there....also, which I'm sure all Southern Schools have this, is suicide watch takes place during rush at Ole Miss, apparently girls have attempted suicide because the house they wanted released them....

I think that's correct. UCF has a pretty high placement rate. Most of our PNMs will get one of their top three choices. If not, the chapters that don't make quota are eligible to snap bid.

"Pecking order" certainly exists at UCF but it has changed a lot since I went through rush. Although the "top sororities" are still regarded as being excellent chapters, some of the chapters that were considered "weaker" when I went through rush are now some of the best. I'm sure adpiucf and sherbetlemons would agree but the reason some of the sororities stay in their top position is because of the housing situation. Many PNMs prefer a chapter that has a house on campus and this hurts the 4 sororities (well...5 in the Fall) that do not have a house on Greek Park. They're supposed to start constructing Greek Village sometime this Fall from what I hear and I think this will definitely up the ante.

Ditto that! I remember in particular, one sorority got a house in the late 90's. They had colonized strong, fallen back a little and once they got that house, they took off!!!! It was always a great chapter full of campus leaders, but their perceived "value" went up significantly with the addition of their house. I was friends with many of those girls, and I'm thrilled that they are going strong. :)

It is an unfair advantage on UCF Greek Row for some sororities to have houses, for the most part. Although those without a house enjoy significantly lower dues, PNM's place high stock in a chapter house. It's not right, but that's the campus culture at the university. I am very excited for Greek Park II to break ground, and give all of our wonderful UCF chapters an even playing ground.

So only some NPCs have houses at UCF?

I know for sure Kappa does not have a house. I believe UCF has been expanding - Kappa colonized two years ago (?) and I know AEPhi is also colonizing.

Unfortunately, yes. Greek Park began construction sometime in the 80's. Any chapter that colonized onto campus later on was SOL because all the lots were taken. Greek Park 2 has been planned for years now but there has been a lot of environmental/ecological factors that prohibit the construction of more houses in the area where GP2 was supposed to be built. UCF's campus is already completely planned out; we don't have a stadium yet but there is land somewhere on campus that is slated to be the place for the stadium one day. Because the campus is planned, there was no way to just place GP2 in another place on campus. It's unfortunate because I'd say the majority of our GLOs are unhoused. All of the NPHC organizations, most of the NIC fraternities, and 5 NPC sororities have no house on campus. Here's a list to show how little of the GLOs have a house compared to those who do not:

NPC/NIC GLOs with a house
Pike
ZTA
Alpha Xi
ADPi
TriDelta
KD
SAE
Kappa Sig
Pi Phi
ATO
Sig Ep
Sigma Chi

NPC/NIC GLOs without a house
ChiO
DG
Theta
KKG
AEPhi (coming this fall)
AEPi
Beta
DTD
DU
LXA
Lambda Sigma Upsilon
Lambda Theta Phi
Phi Delt
FIJI
Pi Kapp
Sigma Lambda Beta
Sigma Nu
TKE
Plus all NPHC GLOs

They're supposed to break ground on GP2 this fall. It's going to be set up more as a village as opposed to individual houses to help conserve space.

I have figured it out. I think . . .



I'll make a thread to discuss this later but I thought I would quickly chime in.

In the schools with really "competitive" Rush, Formal Rush is designed to give quota to the majority of houses based almost exclusively on incoming freshmen that are begging to join. They don't have to recruit anyone.

An automatic population if you will.

The local PC knows approximately how many girls are coming through formal every year. In order to ensure that most houses get quota without having to COB, quota has to be designed around a smaller number than actually comes out.

Which is why its necessary to devise a system that has heavy cutting. IF quota matched the initial numbers that signed up for rush, the most popular houses would still get quota, but more of the bottom and middle tier would have to COB.

So it "appears" fairer for the more popular houses to really have to cut, because it reduces overall numbers in such a way that quota is more attainable for the less popular chapters.

Which is a bit of a mental hallucination, because if quota was higher more PNMs might actually end up placed in the top houses they wanted (the ones that cut them because they had to), but it would look like there was a greater discrepancy in the less popular houses.

For example, the less popular house gets 50 when quota is 60, or gets 50 when quota is 70.

Thats operating uner the assumption that a decent amount of girls that get cut from top houses refuse to pledge bottom tier ones. And since i know people that have done that, I believe its true.

So if I am correct, the system loses the girls that the top or middle tier would have liked to take if they could, but refuse to pledge bottom tier houses.

Is that a problem? And is there a solution? I think its a good discussion point.

James, honey.
Almost 9 on a Saturday night, and you're posting a reply on a sorority-related thread that two weeks old.
A good-looking guy like you ought to be ought having fun.
Turn the computer off. Step away. Turn around. Get out of the house. I promise you the computer will be there tomorrow.
(I have an excuse...I'm old and married and too pooped to pop out).

LOL, we go out late in the NE:) Although tonight was an early night, just a late dinner.

james
 

great observations, as always. and anchoralumna:too funny!!

All this talk about southern schools and rush......

When i went to Arkansas and When i was a RA it was pretty intense

My first roommate dropped out and moved back to washington state because she didnt get the house she wanted....she took the bid that was given to her and dropped out 3 days later...making me dodge the calls from the house.


When i was an RA i had to watch very carefully for a few girls on my floor because one was very emotionally upset and we did in fact have to watch her for suicide watch.

this all makes me very glad i was an Alum Initiate. I went thru rush and didn't get a bid ( age is a big factor) and the other house i was suppose to go thru COB with was closing down so they couldn't even save it with one more new member

At Arkansas Rush is some SERIOUS SERIOUS business! Very cut throat. The houses on campus are all pretty big names and everyone knows them coming on.

I come from a HUGE southern Family and have cousins and aunts who are top tier GLOS and they say the same thing.....

southern ancestry, tradition, legacy, reputation, cut throat, $$$!