ZetaAce I feel that you have made yourself very clear in your opinons that you have posted on the board. L-Dawg, I feel as though you want the "B" in BGLO to be removed because you feel that individuals who may not be black will be intimidated or discouraged to inquire about the organization because of the "B" in BGLO. If the "B" in BGLO is what's bothering you so much, I think you should maybe look at the bigger picture. Like ZetaAce stated the "BGLO" is just an unofficial term. If the person who might want to join the organization is so concerned about the "B" maybe they should not join the organization. Black Greek Letter Organizations are derived from a very rich history. I feel that the "B"is just an acknowledgement of the past, that's all. I feel that there are more things to be concerened about rather than the "B" in BGLO. BGLO are primarily about community service. If an individual, whether black or of any other race, has always had an interest in community service and has done their research about the organization they should attempt to join that sorority. L-Dawg if you look closer at different chapters of BGLOs you will see a very diverse population of members across campuses. Eleanor Roosevelt is an honorary menber of a "BGLO", Alpha Kappa Alpha. She obviously was not concerned with the "B" and neither was Alpha Kappa Alpha.

****Sorry for such a long reply.

EXCUSE MY MISTAKE: Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.

Soror, you know I don't mind you responding. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Artimis- She took the words out of my mouth! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

ZetaAce

I appreciate everyone's responses. For the most part, they were all well stated and argued. I know this is an issue that will never come to a "conclusion," but I have definitely learned a lot. Whereas, I still think others may view the B in BGLO as a defining, separating term, I have learned and respect what others believe that it stands for and represents. I know some of the sentences in my original post were not chosen well, but I'm glad ZetaAce and I had the discussion we did. I do not; however, think that I am uneducated and on a "soapbox." My opinions are coming from someone who is not a part of a BGLO, and ZetaAce's were coming from someone who was, of course I was not as informed of the BGLO as she was. I think that we had an intelligent and respectful, though a little tense at times:-), debate. I think it is unfair to tell me to "get off my soapbox and go to class" just because you do not agree with me. It is possible for some people to have a discussion without insulting the other person. In no way were my responses ignorant or unintelligent.

that's my girl L-Dawg!! Great job and great responses "you go"...hahaha

Amanda

Great post and great response L-Dawg...very mature I'm glad you didn't stoop to the level some others did in argument. NICE

I've been observing this debate the entire time and I'd just like to say "way to be" L-Dawg. I'm glad you stuck by your beliefs despite obvious disagreement. Very adult http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I just wanted to make it clear that I still stand by my beliefs. I also want to thank everyone for their responses (positive or negative)...
~Lauren

I was just playing in my last post. I didn't know that about brownouts and blackouts. My bad. I was just kidding about whiteout, and liquid paper, not liquid ink (oops, my bad again). As far as my people being slaves, don't forget that not only black people were slaves. there were american indian slaves, but they knew the country too well and got away. There were also white endentured servants, but again, it was too easy for them to escape and blend in, plus i'm sure they weren't treated as poorly as the blacks and indians. However, "my people" were enslaved! Don't forget the Roman persecution and enslavement of the Christians. And don't forget how the English treated the Irish centuries ago. The poor people were "owned" by those that owned the land they lived on.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

I'm confused now, "white" people do have an ethnicity correct, so don't they have other people with their ethnicity?

i'm sorry after reading my post it might sound as if I was being a "smart-***" and I wasn't trying to be, so please don't take it as that , i was just asking why can't white people (who are from different areas of the world) have an ethnicity or have "their own people" I don't see the problem with that

awwwww blue-theatrics you did not sound like a smart a** girl. (lol) White people are not considered ethnic. although they do have their own "people"(which of course would be white people).I do not see nothing wrong with white people saying "my people" either. When one talks about ethnicity they are talking about people of color or people from other countries.

Ethnicity pertains to races or peoples, not to skin colors. Not all black people share the same ethnicity, some blacks are African, others Jamaican, Carribian, etc. The same with white people. There are Italians, Germans, English, Scottish, Polish, Jewish, Russian, etc. These are all different "white" ethnicities.

First...well said Charles.

Second, historically Black greek letter organizations were founded originally because Black men and women in the early 20th century were not able to join established fraternities and sororities. Black membership in IFC and NPC organizations was virtually unheard of until the 1980's, when African Americans began attending large (predominately white) colleges and universities in greater numbers. BLGOs once provided a vital professional and social support system for Black students that, at one time, did not exist for them. When my father pledged Omega Psi Phi in the 1960's, the organization was able to assist him in law school, gave him important contacts within his field, and provided much need emotional support while he attended Wharton School of Business (there were only 5 African Americans in his class). BGLO served an important purpose!

The question is whether or nor BGLOs are relevant today. Because I'm not a member of one, I can't judge. Most brothers and sisters feel that as long as there are important issues to be dealt with in the Black community, BGLOs are necessary. Others see them as purely social orgs. out to have a good time. Whatever...but Black fraternities and sororities have played an key role in the development of American culture, and they are here to stay.

Peace & Blessings to all
Whew..this conversation has gone quite the distance!
L-Dawg, let me say that I understand and respect your opinion and comment towards tbe reference to the "B" in BGLO. From my perspective, I am the Director of Media & Public Relations for the Atlantic Region of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc.
As I have served in this capacity, I am often confronted with the question of, "What school are you from?" "Didn't you finish with that Sorority-stuff in college?" "Are you still in college?" My point is that the simplest way to answer these questions is that the Black Greek lettered Organizations do not function in the same manner that other organizations do. I choose my words very carefully, as I am an official representative/spokeswoman for my Sorority.
So, again, I understand where you're coming from, I don't agree with it but I respect it.
We are unified and we will continue to serve our communities, the same way we have been doing for decades. And, as far as animosity goes for non-Black Greek lettered organizations, I feel secure in saying that neither my Sorority or Brother Fraternity has any ill feelings toward them. Afterall, that's why we started our own.

First of all you are so waaaay off, Ethnicity DOES not refer to a race of people. It refers to a shared and common cultural heritage amongst groups of peoples. The example you just made about being Italian, German, English, Scottish is NATIONALITY, for crying out loud were you awake in global history class. I was born in Jamaica so my nationality is Jamaican, Carribean(this is the correct spelling thank you) denotes the region on the map describing the countries situated by the Carribbean Sea, but because of the distinct, rich and blessed pigment of melanin in my skin, I am UNEQUIVOCALLY PROUD to be Black...always capitalize the first B in Black if you are addressing my people, thank you very much.

Once and for all let me try to school some of y'all ignorant folks. When you suscribe to a ideology or "game" where the rules, playing field and players, tools etc... are dominated by one sector of the population, anything differing from that status quo will be recognized and described based on their unique characteristic by those people....hence the distinction of gender or color or religion. Oh by the way Jewish is not a race because there are people from around the globe of different skin tones who ascribe to the Jewish FAITH.

ZetaAce dont worry sista because there are a million of those "l-dawg's" out there who when feeled threatened by the resilience and tenacity of anyone normally viewed as according to their terminology the "underclass". So they start creating smokescreen arguments to try and justify there widely accepted and indoctrinated racist practices that they never feel the need to justify.

Charles and L-dawg, if you wish to debate this with me at length, go right ahead. I love educating and illuminating the not so knowledgeable and please save your myths, cliches and cries of reverse racism diatribe for someone else and bring the the knowledge of the WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.


Thank you and enjoy YOUR independence day because Black slaves not were not granted their independence in 1776. Know your history people...or you will be doomed to repeat it.

[This message has been edited by nicci19 (edited July 01, 2000).]

I just wanted to make one thing clear, none of the BGLO were founded because the members couldn't get into other "white" orgainzations!!! Please, if you know nothing else, know that. Most of our organizations were founded on Historically black universities. The idea to join an established orgainzation probably never crossed their minds.

nicci, I'm not an expert in history or geography so please forgive my mistakes on that part, my spelling, etc. But I know for a fact that I am right in my point about the meaning of ethnicity.

You say ethnicity "refers to a shared and common cultural heritage amongst groups of peoples", sorry, that's the meaning of CULTURE. A shared/common cultural heritage amongst a group of people IS their culture.

Nationality does not refer to a person's "blood" history (ethnicity), such as Italian, Russian, etc. Nationality DOES denote an individual's belonging to a NATION.

All this info about ethnicity, culture & nationality is in the dictionary (check if you do not believe it). If you so much enjoy debating & educating the not so knowledgeable, I suggest you pick up a copy so you are well armed with the correct information.

By the way, Jewish is a term used to describe an ethnicity AND a faith, though independently of one another. Just as there are people of other ethnicities who practice the Jewish faith, there are also people of Jewish ethnicity who practice other faiths.

Well said Nicci. Charles when people refer to "ethinic" groups they are usually not talking about white people.

Nicci,

you need to calm down. L-Dawg was simply stating her opinion which is just as valuable as your own! It isn't fair to say she is not knowledgeable. Her and zetace were having a fine debate. There is no need for criticism like your own. Don't be so bitter about the world either. You are a part of this COUNTRY not just your ethinicity. This holiday celebrates our countries independence. I understand your ancestors were slaves to white people but I think it's rediculous to bring it up in a debate such as this one. You are not your ancestors and neither is anyone else. You seem to have a lot of hate in you. How are we supposed to move past things like that with such feelings of hatred toward others. Please don't criticize others like you have. It really makes you, not them, seem like the ignorant one.

Oh I am far from being angry, and I notice that whenever someone tries to state a viewpoint debating racial politics they are described as angry. You dont know me and you have no idea of my temperment by these typewritten words. I have the same demeanor here as I would if I was debating in your FACE which by the way is a huge smile. I am a citizen of this country so I HAVE NOT AND WILL NEVER FORGET MY ANCESTRY FROM MY HOMELAND AND THROUGHOUT THE DIASPORA.

This is the history behind the holiday you celebrate. I thought it would be best to provide a citation.

Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, moved that Congress declare "that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States."

"Adams, John," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

At that time a Black man was 3/5 of a man, so I dont see the reason to hoop and holler about it..it is the truth and why are you so adamant to wanting to leave it in the past. What I am talking about is not hatred, but you use that term to stir up the feelings of other people on this forum. Manders I believe it is YOU that is full of this hatred that you speak of, dont try to project your motives and resentments on me, I am merely stating facts, which by the way you did not address. I wonder why .....hmmmm

Oh have a great 4th Manders, just remember that it is your independence you are celebrating not mines.

Oh, and for the record, my degrees in Biology and Genetics and clear common sense has enlightened me to KNOW that I carry the souls and genetic characteristics of my ancestors. By the way, its evident that the ancestors have passed on their resilience, tenacity and most of all courage to endure "THE STRUGGLE".

YOU WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND.......

Charles: I am not going to get into a back and forth about the definitions. I own a dictionary and I am quite sure you own one too. I know for sure that Black people are represented in EVERY nationality and ethnicity because you cant dismiss the power of MELANIN.

[This message has been edited by nicci19 (edited July 02, 2000).]

I take it that you are not Jewish, because your response was....(just refer to the last paragraph and see if that makes sense now that you have read it again). Judaism is a religion and not a race or ethnicity as you have been led to believe. If your hypothesis could hold water then Catholics would be referred to as an ethnicity...hmmm sounds funny doesn't it. If someone is raised under the Jewish faith and practices another faith he/she is labelled a convert of their new respective religious denomination. Please dont go there unless you are able to put the TRUTH on the table where it belongs.

Have a great 4th by the way!

Oh and Nicci yet again contradicting yourself by saying that I don't know you yet you stating the EXACT same sentence "I think you are the one filled with hatred" by YOU thinking you know me. Too many double standards.

<<Judaism is a religion and not a race or ethnicity as you have been led to believe.>>
--I've always learned (from Jews and non-Jews alike) that there is in fact a Jewish race and a Jewish religion, both separate entities. I'd like to know from where you're getting your information.

I must say I am exremely proud of being part of a BGLO.

Yes a Black greek letter organization.

I am so tired that now that this country has decided or has been forced to decide to include Blacks in the collective of this country. That African-Americans all of a sudden have to drop the institutions they were forced to create to help themselves.

I don't think so. I am not going to change the legacy of my organizaiton because now America has decided to include me.

I personally would have only joined a BGLO. I want to be a part of an organization of women who understand the struggles I go through not only as a woman but as a Black woman. Can anyone say double whammy?

And we as African-Americans should not apologize for our institutions. All of you concerned Whites worried about separation and devisiveness. Why don't you focus your energy on making sure that this country lives up to its legacy of freedom and equal opportunity. SO that there won't be a further need for people of color to form their own organizations. If African-Americans could find affirmation and respect in predominately white organizations. There would be no need to ceate new ones.



------------------
Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[quote]Originally posted by Shelacious:
[b]I totally agree with you Shelacious. No matter what, poeple as a whole will seperate themselves. With the BGLO's, if it was just for African-Americans then there would only be one org., Alpha Phi Alpha, but BGLO's are separated into many different org., some for women, some for men.

Manders:

How dare you say to nicci that we are not our ancestors and neither is anyone else. F*** that!!! That's the problem we have now. Black people, dear, are a people that are very community oriented and we see ourselves as a COLLECTIVE!!! I AM MY ANCESTORS. I have NO reason to bow my head and be ashamed of my ancesotrs, maybe you do. If you choose NOT to claim your heritage then so be it. BUT NEVER try and say that I am NOT my ancestors. You see how it works. By saying that to nicci, you AUTOMATICALLY are referring to ME!! I don't even KNOW nicci personally, but I do. This probably makes no sense to you because if you are white, you come from a people that are VERY INDIVIDUALISTIC. We do not. Watch yourself, sweetie.

Nicci,

Thanks for puttin' it down.

PEACE

Girl, you know that its only love here for my brothas and sistas alike, good lookin. They would never understand but that is not my focus as you can see. Everytime I read a response it is always directed to a minute detail not worth arguing because there is nothing there and the true issue at hand is left on the table. But what can one expect when the truth is unyielding, and most of all brute and upfront.

MANDERS, and ALPHACHIGIRL
For all who would like further clarification on the so called Jewish "race" dont make me laugh.... read THE ISIS PAPERS by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, if you cant find it on the web or in your local barnes and noble then consult the many bookstores the feature Black/African literature...oh you dont know of one, oh well sort of proves my point that you Manders and the others who are unaware...traverse your world through the tint of narrowscoped, pigeonholed, limited (but of course happy to be that way) type of lenses.

Stop being afraid of seeing and learning more about the truth and move from behind your fears. Here is a wonderful site that can begin to clear your haze, look I even copied it for you and everyone else http://www.blackhistory.eb.com/ go the link called Race and Ethnicity and maybe you will realize what some of us Brothas and Sistas have been proclaiming from the Middle Passage till now. I bet you dont know what the Middle Passage is, oh I got to stop because I am ROTFLMAO....woo my stomach is in stiches...


Deltabrat please email me I would love to talk to you offline. Thanks

All of you getting all upset over all of this and all pissed off...go back and look at the mature way this was discussed in the beginning. There is NO REASON to say F***K that or this. That is absurd. I can tell you that I am NOT the picture of my ancestors. Maybe I come from a murderer and maybe YOU come from someone you're not very proud of either...should I say that you will be and are the same? That's not fair. I'm not going to argue about all of this with all of you. (and I never said anything about the jewish religion, i don't know where you got that) please don't argue with me anymore. You may feel like I'm closed minded but I feel like you are equally closed minded. If you have anything else to say about this maybe you all can do it in a more civil way.

Woah you kids need to calm down. From what I see there is a lot of attacking going on. This was a civil debate gone bad. Nicci and others you need to lay off a little. Your arguments are a little out there and you know what, don't throw your "you're so ignorant" comments at me. I'm part of a BGLO

Deltabrat I don't think you could have made a more racist comment. HOW DARE YOU generalize MY people (as you say) by saying I'm individualistic. WHat if I said "you're black so you're (fillinthe blank) Don't be so hippocritical. If you want to have a civil argument don't use such outlandish arguments and don't you dare stereotype ME if you want Me to respect and understand YOU.

I dont recall ever addressing my email to you, this is the first time I have seen your username. To my knowledge this is a civil debate but people like yourselves tend to read too deep into the typewritten words you see and generate all the emotion that is not there.

In reference to the line "you're so ignorant". If the shoe fits...... .I did not direct this to you but if you feel that it was directed to you then oh well, I dont see how you belonging to a BGLO is relevant to that line, please read ALL of my posts, then maybe it can clear things up. Happy 4th

I don't feel any love in this room! I am a proud member of a BGLO, and personally I think this thread is getting a little too heated. I think that L-dawg and Zetace were having a really good conversation before it was taken to a very unnecessary level. Everybody calm down. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THERE OPINION. How is someone who dosen't know about BGLO's suppose to know what we stand for if they don't know. Just my $19.13 worth. Peace