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I agree. Women these days do tend to use that as a lame cop out. They want all the freedom in the world to be as irresponsible, reckless & being "out there" so to speak, without any of the responsibility that comes along with engaging in such behavior. When we hold them to the same standard of accountability for engaging in this kind of behavior, then all of a sudden, the rules change & they try & hide behind those excuses you highlighted in your comments. It really is a cheap ploy used by alot of females to try & duck personal responsibility/acountability & not be held to the same standards of decency that they'll crucify a man for not living up to. |
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It doesn't matter the economic or social background of the female, because it happens in middle class and upper class families, too. And I believe it is the same for the guys. If they did not have a good role model of a relationship from their parents, then they will tend to follow in the same footsteps. Lastly, I also blame mothers who love their sons and raise their daughters, i.e., raise them to cater to the man in the household whether it be the father or the brother. ETA: An older soror once told me when asked about what was the secret to her 50+ year of marriage. She said she followed her mother's advice--if he goes up the street, you go down the street, because the less you know the better. Then eventually going up the street will not appeal to him anymore. LOL |
This convo comes up from time to time off the internet and not just among Greeks:
I'm not a frequent clubber but I believe that good people can be met at certain types of "club events." That's because EVERYONE thinks they're the only good person in the club. But if YOU'RE in the club, even for that one visit, why can't other good people be in the club? Lastly, outside of the "fraternity superfreak" context, I think that people gossip too much about what other people are doing. And men often exaggerate who they've been with and the context in which they've been with people. Sometimes just to brag and share notes and sometimes they're bitter that a woman doesn't want them so they want to make sure no other man wants her. So when I see women labeled as "hoes" (which happens far too often while men with many sexual partners are considered "just men"--I see that PrettyBoy doesn't live by that double standard), I take it with a grain of salt. I use the term "hoe" to refer to men and women who are careless with their sexuality and find some way to make it everyone's business. Not just because they dealt with the wrong person who ran his or her mouth. It's subjective and isn't only based on number of sexual partners, especially since no one has to tell you how many people they've been with when they get with you. And if they refuse to tell you, it isn't safe to assume they've been with a lot of people, it's just not your business so stop guessing. Someone with 20 sexual partners isn't automatically a "hoe" if most people don't know their past BUT someone with 2 sexual partners can be a "hoe" depending on how it was done and who is talking. This doesn't mean that it's acceptable to sleep with entire groups of people (like men who sleep with sorority chapters) or rack up more mileage points than a frequent flyer. |
^^^^ *slow clap*
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This is interesting... |
LG I agree with you 99%, but you lost me on the up the street down the street thing. My folks have been married for 44 years, and my folks never do anything without the other. Everything else though, you're right about.
DSTCHAOS, I wouldn't classify a woman who slept with 20 people as a hoe, but I most certainly would not get involved with a woman who slept with that many people. My question would be why so many men?:confused: Though I don't pull the double standard thing, I still do blame these men more than I do the women. Too many men have a very hard time being faithful to just one woman. They cheat, and spread their seads all over the place from woman to woman, which gives these same women insecurities, which is then taken out on the next man who just may be a good man. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that EVERY woman wants to know that her S/O is completely loyal to her in thought and deed. Me personally, I still can't get down with the cheating and FWB thing. I believe a man should be firm in adherence to his promises that he makes to her. When a woman says that she wants a faithful man, what she's really asking for is a man who will not cheat and who will be loyally committed to her, and her only. I honestly don't think there's an excuse for the excessive partners. As ladygreek stated it comes from background. I agree with her, but I don't think anyone wants to be treated badly no matter what the background is. I really don't. How can anyone be completely satisfied having sex without a serious commitment? I don't think anyone wants that. I think it's the insecurities that get in the way. DSTCHAOS and ladygreek, you two make sense and I guess I'm being a bit unrealistic, but a woman with strong morals who believes in a serious relationship is very important to me, and I won't settle for anything less. I would die single before I do that. Seriously. I remember when I was in undergrad my fraternity brothers were doing the FWB thing and trying to get me to do it too. I wanted a commitment, so I never slept around, and still won't so that's why I can't accept a woman in my life who has/had multiple sexual partners. This doesn't make her a bad person, I just know I wouldn't be able to get past that. |
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I blame society for the double standard. Men are doing what they've always been taught men are supposed to. Sons are taught to have sex but wrap it up and daughters are taught to keep their legs closed. I think that's dumb because the sons will be having sex with someone's daughter. So the double standard is irrational. Even monogamous men and women can get high numbers. I always find it humorous when men and women in their 20s and 30s say they've had tons of boyfriends and girlfriends. This fast monogamous dating means that almost any person of the opposite sex is a potential mate. :) So having a lot of sex partners is okay with them because each of these people was an exclusive relationship. Quote:
So if you find a good woman who wants to give you the world, don't turn her away because of something that you may get over if you try hard enough to. Also, don't turn her away if she won't tell you how many men she has been with. Like I said, it's really none of your business as long as her business isn't out in the streets. And, like I also said, she could have been with 1 other man and just thinks that it's none of your business period. Quote:
You're honest with yourself. Do what you're comfortable with. We all have our criteria. But many people's criteria changes as they see what's really out there. There are some deal breakers and the rest are just things you'd want in a perfect world. For example, men who date older women would be hard pressed to find an older woman who hasn't had a few sexual partners. Not impossible but difficult--even if she's celebate. Go based on how she's handled her sexual history and whether he has a constant need to be around other men. Stuff like that rather than numbers. |
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And the boys.... When I talked with my 8th grade boys, one of them said that his father doesn't mind him having sex as long as he "straps up" and isn't gay. The look that I gave him is similar to this:confused:. I guess that was his father's version of the birds and the bees. Now when he has a child he will be able to pass this info on to his son. How wonderful! |
DSTCHAOS thanks for that and you make sense and I agree with a lot of what you stated. No, I don't expect a woman to tell me how many partners she's had. I usually wait until it comes out in conversation. Time always exposes people. So I just sit back and wait.
ladygreek, my parents weren't even married a year before my sister was born, and then they were married for a little over 4 years before my brother was born and over 7 years before I was born. I'm not sure how old I was before I realized they never did anything without the other, I guess as long as I can remember. Infact, my dad was still in college when my sister was born. My dad always said he puts his family 2nd to Christ and 1st before anything else. I've always seen his actions match his words. Folks, I guess I was born 100 years too late, because 20 men is way too many. I know that's pretty much the norm in todays time, but in my eyes it's unacceptable, and if I found out that she slept with that many men, I'd have to let her go. |
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And I am really glad that you are a one woman man. |
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I agree, children don't see the whole picture, and I'm sure I wasn't seeing the whole picture either, but from what I have seen they rarely would go places alone. If they did, they knew where to find the other one. No, I didn't understand the statement. I guess when I see a couple that's married or in a serious relationship and one goes the opposite direction to keep from seeing what's going on at the other end of the block, to me that sounds like something dishonest is going on. I'm not sure if I was reading that right though, that's why I was saying I didn't understand what you meant by that. But again, LG I know you were not implying anything. You didn't even have to mention that to me, you know I wouldn't think that about you.:mad::) |
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Basically she was saying if you suspect something look the other way--it too shall pass. Personally that wouldn't work for me, but for generations before me it did. |
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You're stuck on numbers and we're not talking about numbers. We're talking about principle. Principle says that you don't dictate what's too much for the women you meet and you won't necessarily know enough about their past to judge her. Again, this principle applies whether she's been with 1 man or 20 men. And you're also begging for a woman to lie to you. If a woman isn't so judgmental or inquisitive about your past (most women aren't, as far as I'm concerned), don't act as if she owes you her life story as if you hold the key to all that is good and Holy. :) |
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Seriously though. (well I was serious lol) DSTCHAOS you look at things a lot differently from the way I see things when it comes to relationships. I'm not saying your way is wrong, infact you're right on and your thinking is much more realistic than mine. You also have more of an open mind than I do. My problem is I've been around these same kind of women, and they all have had too many partners. When I say too many, the numbers were very high. I don't like going behind that many men. I don't think a woman or a man has to sleep with everyone he/she gets involved with. I didn't, so why should I deal with a woman who has? It's like Phrozen1ne stated about the leftovers. I think a loose woman stays loose...in most cases. DSTCHAOS, I think you're very intelligent, and very positive except for when you cause problems on the Kappa forums :rolleyes::), but I just can't get past a woman who has a high number of sexual partners. As far her lying to me, I'm not worried about that. The truth will come out. It's just a matter of time.;) |
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And your "low" could be someone else's "too high." But it will all work out for you. Good luck. :) |
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One of my friends that I met this past semester has ran through two of the fraternity houses. I've actually seen one leave out when I was going out and when I'd get in the room she'd be "freshening" up because the next guy was on his way :eek::eek::eek:
I remember I was in her room hanging out one day and her phone starts ringing and she looked at it and said "UGH! I wish that ni99a would stop calling me!" Her roommate/best friend asker her who she was talking about and she said "FRED! I f***ed him last night so me and Wilma can get into the party for free and he can hook us up with some drinking bracelets but now he acting like we in a relationship! Ni99a please! If you wasn't an Alpha I wouldn't even look at you!" But she formed a "relationship" with one of the Omegas since they throw more/better parties. I don't think she's hooked up with any Kappas, I don't know if it's because most of them are in relationships or if it's because they hardly throw parties :confused: She always tells me that I need to come over to the houses with her. I'm always like "Hmmm...maybe next time..." Or maybe never! I plan on pledging and I don't really want to get that sort of reputation and plus, that's just not my style at all! A lot of the sororites and sweetheart organizations know about her and the guys that she's hooked up with. She got her hands on an invitation to a little social that XYZ sorority was having but she said that she got there too late and they wouldn't let her in but I arrived about 15 minutes after her and got in with no problems...I can't figure out why :rolleyes: |
this thread is really funny
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After reading every singe post on here, every one makes sense to me. But at the same time, what ultimately matters is your self-control, and I think that was mentioned beforehand.
My ships and I would NEVER pass a chick around, much less a girl who is the object of our affections, although I do have to agree that temptation is a bitch and that sometimes it's hard in a college setting to be "faithful." Sometimes, people cannot fathom the true meaning of love. Most people cannot fathom the fact that when you have sex your body makes a promise even if you don't make one verbally. Each time you open your legs/slip yourself inside someone you create soul ties that cannot be broken. At least this is how I feel. Sex in our current society is so disposable it's ridiculous. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not holier than thou at all. I do, and have done some pretty despicable things. None that I regret, but some that I do think could have been handled better. Respect for oneself and as every brother in the forum was taught on that chained and beaten path to Alpha was taught, respect for womanhood is key. Excuse me if I'm rambling, I suck at writing things. |
And also, to touch on the topic about numbers, I think if every one knew # we'd all be disgusted with our partners. Somethings are just better left unsaid, especially if you and her are in love, and you are having a successful relationship, why let something as small as the past ruin your future together?
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I honestly feel you on that...but like you said "Most people cannot fathom the fact that when you have sex your body makes a promise even if you don't make one verbally." That is why I ask about how many was in her past. I have always felt that sex was a unlike any other intimate act that a human being can perform...their were times when I really developed deep feeling for a couple of past females, but the high numbers straight CRUSHED me...
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Frat,
How come every time I come to the Alpha Phi Alpha message board I have to see this degrading link title that refers to women as "hoes"? I feel like this is not aligned with what I think of when I think of Alpha men. Moderators, ya'll can't clean up that title to show a little more respect for women? SC |
This is an old thread so maybe I'm forgetting how it started. Isn't the title in reference to "hoes" and not to "women?"
Perhaps the title can be changed to "promiscuous women (and men)." Would that really change the meaning beyond removing the catch phrase? The discussion in this thread already addressed the subjectivity of the term "hoe." |
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ETA: If it's hard for him/her to be faithful in a college setting, then it would be hard for him/her to be faithful in any setting. |
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ETA: I wouldn't. |
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------------>We're here<------------ |
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DSTChaos,
The reason that I personally have a problem with it is b/c it doesn't strike me as suitable to call any woman a derogatory term. I just don't think that it's good for our community to continue that kind of madness. This is why I have a problem with it. The title just doesn't strike me as something that is of the caliber to be on the Alpha Phi Alpha page and, appears at least to me, to disrespect all women. I was surprised to see it on the Alpha page. SC Quote:
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