Left out I really don't have anything to add to the topic but there was something that struck about one of your original posts. You mentioned that hsving your child at 15 was a bad choice. I just want you to know that it wasn't a bad choice http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif particularly since the end result brought you such a wonderful blessing that is your child, and a reconnection with God http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif. Whatever you decide, I wish you much luck. Godspeed sista'!!!!

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Never cast your pearls before swine Matthew 7:6

Darling1,

Thank you so much for your encouragement! Just to clarify, the bad choice I was speaking of was not having my son. I was talking about the fact that having premarital sex is wrong in the eyesight of God and doing so was a sin. I don't regret having my son even though he is here because of an act of sin. I've been set straight by God and I lift my son up to him as my offering of love and dedication to His will. Hope I was a little more clear this time. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Nice Question http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

The point I believe Discogoddess is trying to make...and to some degree...I agree is PLEDGING is NOT a priority..raising a child is...and the environment of sorority life in college is not exactly child care friendly.

No one should have to compromise taking care of their child over ANY Sorority activities. In grad, Sorors are more sensitive to family life. But hey, people ultimately will do what they want to do.

Whatever you decide good luck...and may God bless you.


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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

I agree, I always say that my son was not a mistake, he was a surprise. A mistake is something you regre, while a surprise is something you didn't know you wanted or needed until it got here. And now you can't even realize how you lived with out it.

I think alot of the people who are posting negatively to left outs choice are not parents (Notice i did not say all)
But until you have a child, you don't understnad how much of an inspiration that child is for everything you do. When ever I start something now, I truly try to finish and do it to the best of my ability ( not that I was a lazy bum beforehand, though) It's just that I know I have someone looking up to me and I want to always do what will make him proud of me and I also want to show him how to be a better human being and what better way than being a part of an organization that is striving to uplift the community.

Sorry, I know I can be long winded at times, but I had to get that out

Left out?? I feel ya!!! I knew a girl on my block who had her daughter at 15 and had familial support. I was really happy for her. I was also in awe by how she had the cuage to finish hs and not depend on others. I dont know if I could have been that strong. When I saw your posts I was reminded of her. Again I say kudos to you my sister in Christ.

Love

darling1

ps. guys sorry about the multiple post before.

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Never cast your pearls before swine Matthew 7:6

Whew! My work life has finally slowed down enough to respond....

I think it is important that we all remember that people come to this forum with a diversity of experiences, values and opinions and, as a result of that diversity, that differences will occur. Just because I disagree with something does not mean I am attacking YOU personally or because I feel that something is wrong that I think I am GOD or perfect or 'judging' someone. God has given His believers a discerning spirit and has also told us that if we see our brother doing something wrong we are to let him/her know.

That being said, I think it is important to realize that with every action comes consequences--and responsibilities. And sometimes those consequences mean that we can not parttake in everything that we would like to. My moral code says it is not o.k. to be an unwed, teenage mother. As I stated earlier, society (particularly AA society) has for too long said it was o.k. to participate in behavior that should not be o.k. Children are disrespectful to their elders and folks think it's cute, sisters come to church looking that they just came from, or are on their way to the club with the attitude "At least I'm here!" and yes, young folks are having unprotected sex without giving any thought to making a lifelong commitment to their partner, much less how they are going to raise said child.
Those things are wrong and as long as we continue to quote the Bible out of context these issues will still be at epidemic proportions in our communities. Do you realize that hetrosexual Black Women are contracting AIDS at a much faster rate that any other demographic group?

I realize that these are emotional issues and I probably should have addressed Left out? directly instead of bringing c & c's Line sisters in the picture since they did not ask to be involved. For that, I appologize. But we must realize for every positive situation that you gave about a teen mother who is making good now, there are 100 other stories where they did not finish their education, are working menial jobs or on welfare, etc. As educated Black women we must show the ones that are coming after us that there is another way!

Left out? I commend you on the positive changes that you have made in your life. I wish you all the best in the future. The wonderful thing about God is that what satan meant for evil, He meant for good. (Romans 8:28) Bottom line, what I say, or anyone else on this board for that matter, does not really matter (unless someone is a member of the sorority of your choice at your school)--what matters is what the people who will be voting think.



[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited June 27, 2000).]

"My moral code says it is not o.k. to be an unwed, teenage mother. As I stated earlier, society (particularly AA society) has for too long said it was o.k. to participate in behavior that should not be o.k."
--I agree with you totally, Eclipse. It does seem as if society, particularly AA society, is very lenient about certain things, especially when it comes to having children out of wedlock. I understand that accidents often happen, and a woman shouldn't be penalized for anything in her past. That includes joining a sorority on the undergraduate level...
I honestly don't think a woman, who's got a huge responsibility like a family, will be able to devote as much time to her sorority as is required in the New Member period, no matter how well she's got it for her and her baby. It seems as if she'd spread herself too thin, and her child and devotion to the sorority would suffer. If someone is able to do it all, I have nothing but the most love and respect.

You could not be further from the truth...The African American community does not by and large support abortion...its not that we condone promiscuity, its that proportionately, we do not abort as often as our counterparts. The question is what do we think is a greater sin...children out of wedlock or abortion.

I have to agree with Finer-Woman-10-A-91 that as a culture, there is not the condoning of abortions (as is with other cultures), the same is similar for Latino/a's in that, abortion is usually looked at more unfavorably than having the children out of wedlock. I think the bigger issue, as someone else stated is the REAL sin, which I think left out? attested to. That is pre-marital sex, itself. Many of us are guilty of that sin. THAT is in fact, the real sin in this whole issue. So a person sins and has pre-marital sex then gets preggers, for some, an abortion is not even an option. For many women, however, it is. What many don't realize is that the TRUE sin has already been committed, the sex, out of wedlock, in the first place. Many of us have done this and just been "LUCKY" enough NOT to get pregnant or we have abortions and pretend we've never been there before so we can look down our noses at the other people who did have children and blame the community for "condoning" the births of these children, who are indeed blessings.

I do agree that Eclipse and someone else were basically saying that it would seem like a person with a child may decide to wait if not for the simple fact of not being able to devote the proper amount of time to either, the Sorority or the baby. Also, no one should have to CHOOSE between the two. I do know, from experience, that a tight support system (this includes the baby's dad/husband)can make it possible, to the fullest.

I would like to thank everyone for offering thoughts and opinions on the matter (I am Left Out??). I've taken everyone's opinion to heart. I will go through with pledging regardless of anything or anyone. I am aware that there are people out there that want to play God and condemn me for choices I made almost 9 years ago and that's fine. If that is the case with the organization I choose to be a member of, I will (as I have in previous situations as this)keep trying. It's really hard for me to understand how someone can tell a person what would be too much for them to handle. Well, I would definitely pray about joining this sorority before hand and if God says no, then it's no. On the other hand, if He says yes, then it's mine to have.

Anyway, thanks again EVERYONE! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Hey...I've heard of girls who've pledged BGLO's with children (in fact, there were a few in each pledge class)...the catch is, the girls' parents or boyfriends' parents had the babies, so it wasn't as if the girls were dealing with the burdens of motherhood firsthand. In the opinions of BGLO members on this board, would this situation be conducive to the pledge process?

Also, for anyone who knows, does NPC have anything in its bylaws about potential members with children? I've never come across any NPC members with children. Does the woman automatically become an alumnae member if she has a child during her college career?

DELTABRAT:
You said no one should have to 'choose " sorority life vs. a child. I am going to have to respectfully disagree. Today's society (not just AA society)tells us we supposed to have it all--NOW. I am in Human Resources and although it is not a major part of my job responsibilities, I do recruit from time to time. It is amazing to me the number of recent college graduates with average (or below average) grades, no internships or experience to speak of, who expect top $$. And I am *not* talking about people with high profile IS degrees either. Plus, they expect to be involved in the 'good' projects because they 'did a case study in a business class.' Sometimes we have to make choices our selves from conflicting priorities and other times someone else makes the choice for us based on our prior behavior/choice.

Wynna,
I am truly sorry that you feel that people have 'comdemed' you or want to play God. Speaking as someone who has come out on what you probably feel as a less that positive, nothing can be further from the truth. As I said in a previous post, I commend you for all of the positive things you are doing now.

You are right Deltabrat. that is what I have been trying to say. The actual immorality is having pre-marital sex and this is something alot of us are guilty of. Some of you have mad some great points. Please stop equateing unwed motherhood too sexual promsicuity, though. Just because one has a child does not mean they have been promiscuous.

Eclipse,

I'm sorry, I need to clarify. I was not talking about people on this board. I was saying that I know how some people may feel about this issue and they want to condemn the person even before meeting them and if the members of the sorority I choose are like that, then...

I hope that helps to clarify my last statement. Thanks for your honesty and encouragement! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Its unfortunate Pretty Girl, but any unwed teenage mother is promiscuous. There is no way to disassociate the two. You were not 18 yet, most likely still in high school and got pregnant. Its hard to hear a label such as "promiscuos", but that is what it is. Looking back I am sure you see that you made some not to good choices that really shaped your future. Admit that you may have been one way then, but hopefully you have matured and know have strived to become a good mother who has not let an early pregnancy hold her back. You may have fit the label, but that does not mean you can't move on and up. I think you have a better chance of gaining membership if you admit that you made a few choices that were not good at the time, but you worked hard to make a life instead of falling in the welfare trap and are on the road to a degree. Arguing with the members of your prospective chapters about your right to have a child will get you nowhere, but voted OUT. Letting them know who you have become and where you are going will get you more recognition and perhaps more votes. Just my $19.13

I was just about to post that same comment...lol

Good luck and i will be praying for you to girl..becaus eregardless of what anyone on this post says I know that as long as God is my support system I can do anything.....and I dare you to tell me different.

Promiscuous - not restricted to one class, sort, or person.

I had a child when I was 17. Yes, I did commit a sin, I had sex when I was not married, however, my child was not a sin. He was/is a blessing. Let's keep track of were the real sin is.

I had sex with one person. The second time, I got pregnant. I guess that somehow, that makes me promiscuous.

Much love to all, but I had to post on that one

Hmm. Well way back in 8th grade they told us that "promiscuous" meant that you were indiscriminate in your sexual choices. If every teen mom is promiscuous, then how do you explain girls that get pregnant on their first time haveing sex?

Not that I condone it, but generalization is not good.

You are sooo wrong dst Promiscuous means sleeping around, point blank. It has absoulutely nothing to do with having a child out of wedlock. According to the American Heritage Dictionary:Promiscuous- is indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners. Lacking standards of selection(in ones sexual partners). Consisting of miscellaneous parts or members................ Nothing about childbirth is mentioned. I am not arguing with anyone about anything! I can defenitely admit that i made some bad choices in life. We all have. But choosing to keep my CHILDREN is not one of them. If I am voted out (as you say) because of my children then that means that obviously at that particular time that chapter is not meant for me. My world revolves around my children not around ANY greek org. As much as I would love to be a apart of one I will not allow ANYONE to try and down me because of my situation. If I did make it into my org of choice my world still would not revolve around the org. I am always a person first. Everyone has lives outside of their org. Everything they do does not involve their org. My children would be one of those things. I will not bite my tongue for anyone. Like I said before, none of the orgs have no children as one of their requirements until they do I have to assume i am welcome to try for it! If I am not chosen simply because I am a mother then I am probably better off. My children are a part of me. This situation is almost the same as dealing with simple minded judgemental men! And just like with men if my sorority of choice can not embrace me with love and be accepting of my children, then I will gladly walk away! Then try again grad.Like I said before pleding with kids or having them out of wedlock while you are already in the sorority amounts to the same. If one can love her soror after she has kids then one can love a woman as her soror is she already has them before she pledges. If she can not then those are her own insecurities. Us single mothers in the world do not have time to deal with those like that. I am not begging anyone to take me in. I am not begging anyone to accept my situation. You either do or you do not. Either way my life will go on and so will yours! Will it hurt me some if i do not cross because of something such as my G.P.A, or community service etc. (all that is intact just giving a example) yes that would hurt and I would try and do better the next time. Will it hurt me if I do not make because I am a mother HELL NO! Not at all! Because I love my kids and I would not trade them for anything! I am not ashamed if them one bit! I would not even bother trying to justify them to anyone. They need no justification to no one except God. I know that he accepts them. Thats what really matters. Now that is my $19.08 cents, $19.13 cents, $19.20 cents, and my $19.22 cents. If I can go to school, take care of my kids, service my community, and work then that amounts to one thing : STRENGTH! WHICH IS SOMETHING PEOPLE WHO SIT AROUND AND JUDGE OTHERS, ARE LACKING TERRIBLY! I will still love the BGLOS whether I make it or not. For what ever reason. I love what they stand for and I love what they are trying to do for their people. If I never get to call someone my soror or frat, thats okay because regardles in my heart we are all brothers and sisters!