I can and I do fault them. Where there is a will there is a way. If they want to come in, in the time honored manner they can. Also there is no division, there are brothers and there are others. Others are not frat. How can you say someone is a brother, and he doesn't even know his own line brothers name. That just sounds ridiculous. Imagine this "What is your brothers name?" response, "I don't know." That just sounds foolish.

What do you mean there are others, FRAT?

You can't be IN THE HOUSE OF ALPHA and not be an ALPHA...regardless of what you say brothers who actually go through "intake" are just as much a part of my beloved APHIA as you are...they know everything you know (maybe not as well)...but ALPHA is about growth...

Yes, its not right that the processes don't match...yes, its not right that there is not one universal process to "make" bruhz...but you shouldn't hold that against them...especially if there heart is in this here! What do you want...should they seek you out to be put back on line? Is it worth the suspension of the chapter -- so no one can cross in the coming years! (ign'ant bruhz must see beyond the present to see the future of the chapter and the entire frat)

In the case of Morehouse...do you know that they may already be suspended b/c of hazing incidents (I know because I reside in the ATL)!!!! I mean, they just got back on that campus...they haven't even been on the yard a total of 2 years!...all b/c they were trying to prove that they were hard! Forget that mess...especially when no one knows what & how to do what they are trying to emulate!

Is is really worth it?

And who deems who worthy...? Am I supposed to decide that because a brother doesn't remember all 15 of his bruhs full name that he is not Frat...

Just a quick note on that...my sponsor...who crossed on the "Hill" @ Alabama A&M in 76 (during the height of "pledging")...said he had a line brother who did everything they did...and couldn't even remember the founders...I Mean The FOUNDERS!!!! He just had a bad memory...and no matter how long he was on line he was never able to commit them to memory (luckily he had the help of his LB's to bare his burden)...but this same brother was the first to be doing the work of ALPHA...the first to be about the business of ALPHA...thats commitment...

I had a bruh on my line who was uncoordinated as well as he stuttered...it was awful b/c we were all just as weak as he...even though we could spit out facts, do things and what not.

My hardest lesson was learning to bare my brothers burdens...it made me a better person learning to accept him as he was...especially as active as he is NOW...I know it must not be easy for him, when he comes across brothers like you who may down him b/c he can't spit out his duece's name!...He's still my #5...and a committed Brother of ALPHA

In fact, I would say we all need a little more time in the fire! None of us are the picture of brotherhood, especially when we turn our heads to brothers who can't "rattle off LBs names"...but who are helping brothers move and find jobs, while running the service projects that no one wants to help do...

I chastise bruhs for being apathetic in the frat...the hell with pledging...if you ain't done a da** thing since you crossed except talk about how much wood you took (even though you know we (or any other organization)dont sanction such actions...I love the Frat, but I hate unfraternal Brothers...

"GOODWILL, Is The Monarch Of This House."

Fraternally,

Ice Cold Kreator

A side note: historians have noted that hazing became more prevalent in vigilante pledge processes after the world wars and vietnam due to various military processes! Is that where we design our "rites of passage processes"....if so, it's time to revamp...

I would also like to reiterate that a PLEDGE process is NECESSARY!...even a watered down one...whatever it takes -- ALPHA is bigger than you and I...bigger than processes!

Once again our organizations were founded to uplift and support an oppressed people (us), and here we go again hating on each other. pledging is harder than basic training, whatever if you need to believe that, i won't take that from you. This paper/real issue is so tired, it doesn't pay the bills, has not helped to elevate our people or bond us as brothers and sisters. Instead some walk around talking all kinds of mess about brother/sisterhood and how hard they pledged.
SO WHAT. who cares, there is so much more to life than the number on your back and the letters on your chest. Lets get up, get out and GROW UP!!!!! There is work to be done, we should be fighting to make sure police officers don't get off for using our black children as firing targets, we should make sure all our brothers and sisters are registered to vote so we can have a say in this country, we should educate and instill love and confidence in our children so they can grow up secure and able to lead thier communities/the world. Come on yall, this is susposed to be fun, why do we spend so much time dividing and conquering ourselves. no wonder some say we are just like gangs, some act like it.


[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited August 07, 2000).]

First of pledging is definitely harder than boot camp. Who gives a darn if someone screams at you forever? How do I know because I went through boot camp as well. Boot camp compared to pledging is a joke. They make you do some push up and situps cycle you that's easy no big deal. Compared to pledging that's absolutely no challenge. I would be willing to bet that almost everyone I know who pledged would breeze through boot camp. The other thing is yes there are people who are on line who can't remember such and such line name or may not remember such and such poem by heart, but they proved that they wanted it. When things got hard and rough and there was no ending in sight, they dug down deep because they wanted Alpha bad enough to keep going. There are just some things you can't understand unless you pledged. On another note, every black greek national organization could fold up tent tommorow and say we don't exist anymore. Does that really mean there is no more APHIA? I don't think so. Alpha is bigger than one person, one chapter, one region, or nationals. If a national organization went bankrupt is it really unlikely that some chapter or some region wouldn't host some type of convention or reunion of brothers from all over the world. With the information age, would it really be hard not to keep people informed. I don't think so. All that being said; I don't want nationals to go bankrupt.
Another thing why would anyone want something just given to them that they didn't have to earn. To me that's a sign of a weak person. If someone told me here pay this and be whatever, I would feel like I disrespected everyone who came before me and actually worked for it. I wouldn't even want it. I would tell the person no thanks you can keep that cause what you are selling isn't worth a thing. Alpha's are the elite and historically we produce leaders. Why, because these people were tested and came out on top and then went to work to help everyone else. Do you thing it helped Dr. King to know he had a entire brotherhood to back him. People he knew went to and hell back and kept going.
Basically, if you didn't pledge you didn't earn a thing you aren't an Alpha. If you did pledge and you aren't working in the community or within the fraternity at some level, then you need to get on the ball and stop being lazy. I guess I'll never understand people who skated into a fraternity. Why would they want to join? They can do all the community service they want at the local ymca or the local church or mosque or hindu shrine.

I have been monitoring this thread for a while and it seems that everyone has strong opinions. I would like to know this, how can any person who joined a fraternity/sorority be judged negatively by their intake process especially after 1990 when the MIP came into affect? What if that person who wasn't 'pledged' has served his/her community consistently on behalf of their organization and just for their own enjoyment be judged negatively just because they didn't go through an X week process or perhaps they didn't get a 'beat down'. I mean it wasn't their fault, and they couldn't very well say I want to be pledged because there isn't supposed to be any. From what i have read there are members who have gone through the so called right way and have done nothing for their organizations and there are those who went through the MIP and do nothing as well. There are bad apples everywhere. Iunderstand that this is a topic that I won't fully understand until I am on the otherside of the fence, but coming from the side of humanity and Christian principle, this argument makes no sense and is so counterproductive. There is so much more in this world that needs and should be discussed.

there is nothing Godly about the mentality shown by those who look down on others whatever the reasoning behind it, its simply Ugly in God's sight. The whole "i'm better than him or her because i pledged complex" is pittiful. it offers no remedy and breeds division. whatever flaws there may be in the current process will not be solved by this conversation, so i'll do what i've been doing, that is keeping my pledge, fullfilling my vows, there is much work to do, no time to waste, thank goodness i don't rely on AKA and pledge processes to validate the woman i already am. peace.

Even though it wasn't their fault for not being able to pledge(in some instances), I agree with you, Bruh. It is foolish to not know your "sands". I think those that have it for the right reasons should go to their national conventions and try to develop some pledge process. I did sometime ago. I even submitted my plan.

Every social relationship mankind has known did not survive without some kind of test; and the only way to believe in it is to go through and pass something that would test it. Pledging provides that for men as well as women. Take part in the planning, development and implementation of a pledge program, and you'll see the difference in the way your new bruhs/sistas honor and serve the family.

I just joined Greekchat not too long ago so as I was browsing through, I came across this board. I've read many posts in here and I decided to respond. I am not in a BGLO, I am in a multicultural greek org. My org has a membership education process which does involve forms of pledging. It is something that our Nationals knows about and moderates. Since my org does this and since our Nationals knows about this, it is something that works for our org and we have not had any problems w/ things like physical abuse or harm, etc of incoming members. Everything that goes on w/in our process is noted by our Nat'l office. It is detailed in such a way that it's hard to break from that and do something totally out of the protocol. Now don't get me wrong, our Nationals does NOT condone any type of physical abuse/harm or anything that is demeaning, degrading or humiliating to our associates (pledgees). Things of this nature are strictly prohibited and chapters who are suspected of physically harming/abusing, demeaning, etc associates and/or who get caught doing this will be dealt with accordingly.
The reason for my post is to shed another perspective on this subject. It seems that b/c of the new intake process that has been adopted, there is still a problem of members of orgs taking things too far or still "pledging" their new members. Do you all think that if the NPHC adapted some type of protocol that could involve some levels of pledging, NOT hazing, do you think the situation would get better or continue on as it is? It would seem that this way, members can feel that plegdes are brought in "the right way" yet are not at a risk for getting in trouble or whatever. Also, maybe I missed it, but has there been any suggestions made to the NPHC or from the NPHC to better this situation of intake?

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited August 08, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited August 08, 2000).]

I wasn't going to speak on this topic but i decided i would, but stay brief.I pledged underground not too long ago and even though i was underground i still went through the process. I believe that the process is a very important aspect of the frat,it's a way to find out what members actually believe in the frat and what members are just joining just to step. I believe the process is needed but i think it should be a little more mental and less physical. After all we are not like sigmas we don't have to walk around talking about how we got are ass kicked to show that we are real men.

One Love
kingtut

Looka here, NEO!(and I mean that FRATERNALLY)

First, I agree; THERE SHOULD BE A PLEDGE PROCESS. But it should be very physical, and very mental. It should also be as educational as it is challenging. It should teach young bruhs the importance of being organized with their time, the value of planning, and how important it is for each bruh to teach the people in his circle the value of collective cultural pride. After all, THE JEWELS were among the first Pan-Africanists on this continent.

Also, every organization varies region to region. Some frats are totally different out west than they are out east. Some frats pledge down south; others don't.

Never compare us with another frat; WE are the yardstick by which all others measure. But it's time for us to stop living on our past laurels and accomplish some great things for our people TODAY!

Keep THE SPIRIT

Everyone needs to think about why this discussion was started. First off, I am not in a sorority and I do not have first hand experience on this subject. But as I was reading all the replies, something caught my eye and prompted this response.

USUAL SUSPECT says: Remember the true meaning of brotherhood and sisterhood.

I have 3 sisters of which I am the youngest. All of them are blood sisters, but my oldest is not my mother's child. There will never be a day that I would disregard her because she CAME INTO my family by way of my father and not my mother. All I am saying is that think of it as your blood. Your sister is your sister, and a brother is a brother, LOVE them like any other.


Peace be with http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Pledging goes ALOT deeper than A-Phi-A!!!! I can kick it with a Que that PLEDGED before i can kick it with a SKATIN azz Alpha!!! I've done it before, and i'll continue to do it. I know that Que will support my efforts and pick me up if i fell down, and the SKATIN azz Alpha prolly wouldn't. No true fault of tha SKATER's, he just never had to deal with sacrifice. Respecting tha process is the 1st step at understanding it. If you SKATED, you wouldn't truly FEEL whut i am saying, and prolly think it wuz a crock of shyt. Whut can i possibly say to that??? To each his/her own...
peace

------------------
2 BA SP 96
THE CREATOR OF THE "NO SKATING" ICON SEEN AROUND THE NET!!!

"How do you know where I'm at, if you haven't been where I've been??? Understand where i'm coming from???" - Cypress Hill
"Sah Dah Tay... Say Dah Tay..." - Pootie Tang

I saw "the light" in the 80s, so I KNOW what you are talkin' 'bout. I feel the same way. But if a dude skates, aint that the fault of the chapter? Aint it also the fault of the NBPHC for allowing the definition of hazing to include things that are integral parts of our cultural rites of passage?