It's in our pledge manual.
It's also on our national website: www.phikaps.org

so now we know
 

in checking the web, one can also find a number of christian sororities and fraternities.
mmcat
:p

lifesaver walks into the room with a fire extinguisher...
 

IMHO, the only reason some religions/denominations would have a problem with GLO's is because they (religions) like to be first in the mind control line and cant stand the THOUGHT of someone else helping to shape a persons life. But religion has always been about freedom of choice - whatever. :rolleyes:

Ah LIFE, once again you stroll into a thread and lay down a carpet of infinite jewels and cut to the crux of the situation!:D
All i know is my Priest was a SN and said no drinking or the wedding is off!:eek:

little did I know that in his heart, he was telling me to not get married as I am Anglican and she was Roman:)

Did anyway but have happily divorced for awhile!:D :D :D

ROTFLMBO! Tom, you've got a GREAT sense of humor! ;)

sorry
 

Sorry, but i can't read all these posts at once. I didn't see UNFSigmaChi's name on this thread. Get him to tell you his expericce. I am not Christian, but that is still a good story.

Hell, where is it? I heard that heaven is up and hell is down. Well, heaven is up all around us so I have been told that hell is on earth!:o It seems the way things are going in our world that may be even more true!:(

I wonder, how the pope can be in a Fraternity if he is Polish from Poland:confused: I did not know he went to school in the USA!

I think it is important to remember YOUR faith before criticizing others. Being in my NPC sorority has in fact STRENGTHENED my relationship with God. I am a stronger person, and I believe in myself and the ideals set forth by my founders. I would never be a part of something in which I was made to compromise my faith, or to worship false gods. For those of you who are so concerned with Greeks going to hell and the judgement of God is going to come down upon us, take a look inside yourself. What is it that you are trying to prove to all of us? If I did pay for my sisters, then I haven't paid nearly enough.

Well said, Paws. But I have a question. You said you shouldn't critize other faiths, but then you called other gods (i.e. not your own) false. That is a bit confusing.

[QUOTEI wonder, how the pope can be in a Fraternity if he is Polish from Poland:confused: I did not know he went to school in the USA! [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't know where you got that from, but here a few comments to that. The actual pope isn't in a fraternity to all of my knowledge, but I think Pius the 6th was.

He and a lot of past and current priests, bishops and even cardinals of the roman catholic church are members of my catholic German fraternity. We are non-secretive, at least not to the extent of most American GLO's.

And one other thing. You don't have to live in North America to become involved in a fraternity. Fraternities have a long standing tradition in Europe with roots in the 13th century. There are non-GLO fraternities in the following countries that I know of: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, The Chzec and the Slovak Republics, the German speaking part of Italy and some student societies in the UK. In addition, my fraternity has a chapter in Tokyo, Japan, and another German fraternity has multiple chapters in Chile (but that is sort of imported and not exactly an indigenous product even if some are over 100 years old:)).

>I wonder, how the pope can be in a Fraternity if he is Polish >from Poland:confused: I did not know he went to school in the >USA!

PKT is an international fraternity.

>I don't know where you got that from, but here a few comments >to that. The actual pope isn't in a fraternity to all of my >knowledge, but I think Pius the 6th was.
Yes, the current pope is a member of a fraternity.
-Tony

May I ask how he became a member?? Is he an honorary member?
Matt

May I ask how he became a member??
If you really want to know I can ask, the director of expansion is on campus.

Is he an honorary member?
Yes.
-Tony

yeah
 

Yes, I would love to know,
I have to correct myself about the pope in my fraternity - it was Pius the VII (7th) and he was also an honorary member - and John the XXIII (23rd) was member of a different German fraternity.

My fraternity was founded at a Weslyan school and by the religion of my founders we have grown with god's grace to become one of the largest fraternities in the world and just because Candles are used doesnt mean anything when you lite a candle in your house are you doing something wrong sometimes dont you think that stuff could mean something and no one is more important then god. If you take it toi far then there's a problem but it is just a ceremony

Pink Ice, I know i'm about to step on toes but, that same crew would abolish greek organizations, would probablby do the same for Masonic orders or any other group that they could not obtain information about without joining. Like it was memtioned earlier in a post, if a lot of our pastors and civic leaders{who are in most cases, ministers} are part of a GLO, then why should someone be so quick to judge the unknown.

Too true
 

There was actually a big movement back in the early 1800's where fraternities and secret societies were harshly criticized for being evil and such. There were a few major "open" fraternal organizations founded around that time such as Delta Upsilon in 1834. For the most part though, these organizations were very short-lived.

Many GLO's are founded on Christian principles in fact. Sigma Nu's founders for example took an oath the night they began our predecessor organization "The Legion of Honor" on a BIBLE. The Bible is still prominently used in our fraternity to this day.

Many GLO's stress an importance in spiritual growth. I would say that it is not idols that we prop up, it is IDEALS.

It is natural to fear what you do not understand. It is understood that someone might.

There was a post earlier in the thread by Virtuosity. I would challenge her/him to please NAME the organization that worships a god or goddess instead of saying "Greek organizations that have a goddess or god as their patron, are bad because this type of thing promote the worshipping of FALSE GODS".

Baseless allegations are not becoming and not honorable in the least. It may work when you're talking to the general unenlightened public, but not here.


LHT,
Kevin

I know lots of Christians that use Jesus or Mary as a patron. And I know they use the patron saints as such. As long as you are a good person, it should matter what you believe. Do I use patrons? My fraternity doesn't, but for myself, yes. I have lots of them. Gods/Goddesses, King Arthur, Charelemange, That druid guy whose name I can't think of. Basically, anyone from mythology or folklore or religion that is an examplar of the ideals i strive for (and the ideals my fraternity strives for) as patrons. My fraternity doesn't use them because that is like pushing beliefs on a member, and we are open to all faiths, creeds, etc.

Billy, you are not into trees or things like that are you?

I never frown on anothers relegion unless they try to foist it onto me when I have one! When I was youger, I went to many Churches and Synagogs to learn. It may benefit others to do the same. Learning is still the Key Of Life!

If you do not learn something new everyday then you are lost!

The Majority of the Greek Fraternal Organizations are founded on Christian Principles along with I know are the Mason's and Moose! That these are the only ones that I can personally speak of, the only one I keep up with to this day is LXA!

:)

trees? Yeah. I guess so. I need them to breathe. I don't worship them though.

edited because I just figured out what Tom was getting at.

Yes, Tom. I believe that the "power of nature" and the "power of god" are inhereintly the same thing. I also think that anyway you can commune or feel at one with that power then its religion. The stories, parables, psalms, myths, etc. are the outer trapings. The essential of faith is whats beneath that.

Whew, thnk you Billy for clearing that up for me!;)

Man trees can give splinters!

I know some people who are Druids and they are Great People, well Brandon is a little strange, but that is Brandon!:D

I saw Stonehenge when I was In England and is much smaller than pictures. Near By was also another stone grouping but Stoney got the recognition so is on TV!

Ever wonder why there are Pryamids in so many places? The Sphinx did not come fro the same time period, Easter Island and other places had Huge Stone Heads!

Did Jesus Rise as was stated in teh Bible, which by the way was written many years after the fact?

I was in a religious compound in Tenn. and had a mock up of the tomb, hell had square door cover! Dont do much rolling with that!

There is to much that we do not know and maybe never will, but folk lore is passed down and much of it is true!

Well that got entirely off of the subject post!:rolleyes:

Not NEARLY as many years after most ancient history that you and I accept as FACT! Besides, people were specifically trained and conditioned to retain history back then. The evidence is overwhelming that these "historians" we amazingly accurate.

Just a thought,
Brad

minior bit of historical insight
 

Hi folks,
I know I'm a Jane-come-lately on this thread, just ran across it.

One of my personal activities is teaching Sunday School at my parish. (I'm Catholic and I teach the 8th grade, which is church history year.)

FYI, part of the reason some churches were against "secret societies" (not necessarily GLOs in particular tho) is that it was thought that the society would (a) distract the person(s) from their involvement with the church and/or (b) would promote and teach ideals that were directly in conflict w/ their faith, thus forcing the person to make a choice. The ones I'm particularly aware of that came up in this discussion were the KKK (obviously), the Know-Nothings, the FreeMasons, and the Odd Fellows.

The Catholic church in the USA came up with their own solution to this issue and some related ones: create a secret/private society of their own, the Knights of Columbus, which is basically a Catholic fraternity. My husband is both a 4th Degree KoC and a KA Order brother. According to him, there is no conflict between the vows he took in either one.

Just a little info. Hope it helps.
Adrienne :)

As I recall, the Catholic Church has reversed its opinion on secret societies like the freemasons.

It used to mean excommunication.

ktsnake--

I just looked it up in a number of resources (ie, NewAdvent.com and the Catholic Encyclopedia.)

According to those sources, the ban against Freemasonry membership for Catholics is still enforced and was clarified in 1983.

(Just as a clarification--I'm only posting information on the subject, and there is no intent to preach, evangelize, etc.)

Adrienne
:)

Well, my grandparents were greek, and they wee very Christian. Most orgs that I've been exposed to have been very God-centered. NOt to say that they all have to be, but for those who are Christian, being in a GLO does not mean that you're going to hell. It depends on your personal reasons for joining, what your org does and how you personally participate. I think that also, just the fact that the orgs use Greek letters makes people automatically think "pagan" because Greeks used to be pagans. But if you think about it, some of the first Christians were who, GREEKS. So the greek letters are not just "pagan" in nature.

The only thing really negative with reference to an org and Christianity has been with Freemasonry. I know that they aren't a GLO, but they're considered to be in the same category. I found this article about it, I'll post it for discussion sake. I'm not saying that this is my view or anything, but this is what I found.


Freemasonry
Freemasonry is one of the cultic groups that in these end times have been springing up. It spouts scriptures and sometimes has a veneer of truth, however it can be spotted. They have a defective view of Christ, His deity and His work. They specialize in extra Biblical revelations and have trans-local totalitarian leaders in authority. Commonly they rule the group by "revelations" and "prophecies." Usually there is some form of a pyramiding control of the followers. Freemasons have 33 degrees among their ranks.

Most develop semi-secret sessions for teaching the initiated followers. Exclusivism is taught and there is much violation of the rules of sound Bible interpretation by use of vague passages and semantic juggling to "prove" what the cult teaches.

Fear is the power which holds the group together. Insecurity and maneuvering for power, position and advantage is constant. The misery of being swallowed into such a group is incredible.

Cultic leaders range from openly operating con men to sincere zealots driven by demonic power to achieve their ends. Moral decay and laxness always sets in sooner or later, usually at the top echelons of leadership. Many times the followers are lashed into an ascetic and self sacrificing life style, while leaders secretly indulge their own whims and desires.

The disillusionment and disenchantment which eventually comes destroys many. People who have honestly given their all to a cause, only to discover they have been sold out, have great difficulty readjusting and being able to believe in anybody or anything.

Pagan societies sponsored public worship directed toward idols, while the priests, rulers and philosophers always maintained a different, secret worship centered around a sun god. This latter was designated as the "Mysteries." These "Mysteries" were revived by the "Masonic fathers" at the beginning of the eighteenth century.

In other words what formerly constituted the mysteries of Osiris, Baal, Bacchus or Dionysius is today the mysteries of Freemasonry. Dr. Mackey, Masonic authority, states they are the "same in substance, being derived from one source and celebrated in honor of the same deities."

A converted witch relates that the initiation into Masonry (with two minor changes at the end) is identical to that of witchcraft! By embracing such rituals and vows, rooted in ancient witchcraft and demonic worship, men and women are placing themselves under occult power. The secret signs, passwords, hand grips, etc. which are so highly prized, in reality brings lives under secret bonds and churches are paralyzed where these secret loyalties exist and the Holy Spirit cannot flow freely. Jesus said He had done all things openly and had done nothing in secret, a startling contrast to secret orders which enforce secrecy on their members. We are commanded to renounce the hidden things of darkness Roman 13:12.

Baal was the same as Phoenician Moloch, the Greek Tyrian Hercules (Freemasonry call him Tyrian Architect). He was worshipped on the high places and this is the reason for the "upper chamber" lodge meetings to "worship celestial bodies." According to accredited Masonic historians, the lodge claims to be a revival of the ancient philosophy of Egypt, Phonecia and other Pagan nations. These all practiced a secret worship in honor of a sun god (Lucifer).

Freemasonry is a wicked system of sworn deception, fraud and cunning craftiness from beginning to end. Promoters are always careful, at first, to keep the real meaning of the pretended mysteries in the background, at least until the initiate has taken the Master Masons obligation. By that time he should be so bound that he will not revolt against the bondage he has unsuspectingly moved into.

The Lodge teaches that its three support pillars are Wisdom, Strength and Beauty, and these are borrowed directly from Hindu Mysteries in the initiation of Brahma. The Worshipful Master represents rising sun (east); Senior Warden, setting sun, (west); Junior Warden, the sun at Meredian (south). In every symbol, ceremony and emblem of Freemasonry we are confronted with nothing but the sun god (Lucifer), that ancient Baal worship in every religion from the Druids to Hinduism.

Masons changed names in the Egyptian mysteries from Osiris to Hiram Abiff but retained a similar legend for the initiations. They burned their manuscripts in 1720, interspersed the names of Hiram and Solomon to secure acceptance by Jew and gentile and appropriated the Bible and Apostle John to give it a "Christian" veneer. "Freemasonry both in whole and in part, is literally and truly the secret worship of Baal, or the sun god."

In Deuteronomy 4: 19 God clearly states: When you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars - all the heavenly array - do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshipping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."

God in Deuteronomy 17:2-3 states: If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns that the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of His covenant, and contrary to my command has worshipped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky.

Speaking of Christianity and Greek Life... There are quite a few Christian sororities and fraternities that were founded by Christians for Christians.

This doesn' t mean that there are not Christians in other organization, because there are! In fact, my own parents belong to other Greek organizations that do not necessarily have a Christian base, and they are very much Christian.

But, there is something to be said for organizations that hold this as their ideal and that unswervingly and unashamedly proclaim Christ and Him crucified. It bothers me when organizations say they have a Christian foundation, but you go to their websites and see ladies with their behinds hanging out. Why even fake it? :p

CUPrez, Nat'l Pres.
DELTA PSI EPSILON CHRISTIAN SORORITY, INC.
Established in 1992

I agree. One of the fraternities here, which I won't name, has a tradition that when a guy lavaliers his gf they tie the brother naked to a tree and leave him there after they pour stuff all over him, then call his gf to come pick him up. They did this right outside the window of my old apt.:eek: Quite an eyeful on one occasion. They were founded on Christian principles. This to me says they're not living up to the ideals that their founders set up. If your org has a christian foundation, this should be clear by your conduct. Maybe that's just me...

Crystal

Why must your organization practice a certain religion to be acceptable? It is what's in YOUR heart that counts. My fraternity was founded when 3 men gathered around a Bible and took an oath to stop the physical and mental abuse present at VMI in 1869. All 3 men were very strong Christians. Today, my fraternity remains in its essence an organization that is very in-line with the Bible's teachings. I don't think Jesus would have had any qualms with our 3 cardinal virtues, Love, Honor and Truth...

We however gladly accept brothers of ALL religions. It is not about religion.. I believe that's why we have church -- a place where religion is the common thread.. It's about brotherhood.

If you have to have religion in common to have a bond that's just fine. I see you're in an exclusively Christian organization and that's fine. It's just not for everyone... Neither is mainstream Greek Life though.

You have to go where your values take you.

I do have a problem with your comment where you seemed to be saying that NONE of us practice our ideals. I think that's a very incorrect and judgemental statement. You know as much about my fraternity and others (with the exception of those we've come in direct contact with) as I know about yours.

Woah,

I think you read into my comments something that was not there...

First of all, all fraternities and sororities have requirements and a membership profile. That's why we are exclusive organizations. Ours happens to be that our members be Christian. They can be apart of any denomination, but we are a sorority for Christian women.

Never did I say that no one was living up to their ideals. I merely stated that those that claim to be Christian and don't follow through are reprehinsible. I believe everyone should do their best to keep their word and uphold their ideals. I didn't say anything about your organization not upholding it's ideals. I don't know where you got that from.

As I stated, there are Christians in other organizations. But, that doesn't mean that they are in a Christian organization. There's nothing wrong with that. But, they shouldn't claim that their organization is Christian if it isn't. That doesn' t make anyone better or worse. I'm just saying that everyone should be real about what their organization really is...

CUPrez

And how would you know what that organization really is if you weren't in it?

You wouldn't.

Without studying the reasons an organization was founded and the entire history (much of which many organizations keep secret I'd assume) you'd really have no clue as to the TRUE purpose. Most of our mottos are secret so the only people that truly understand an organization are its members.

Bottom line is that if an organization claims to be Christian in its founding beliefs and principles you'd best take their word for it. You have no right and no factual base to say otherwise.

We just don't exclude others based on religion.

But merely stating that it's reprehensible for individuals not to follow their organization's ideals.. well I'd say to some degree EVERYONE is guilty of that. So why pass judgement on others?

Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone.

Two things:

One when you read the Phi Kappa Theta website, it says Pope John Paul the SECOND, who was from the USA, but he is not the current pope, that is John Paul the THIRD.

And Two, why do you care so much what the church thinks of you, are you that despret in seeking approval that you have be liked by all? And if it is a Christian thing (I don't know, because I'm Jewish) and if you really get judged by god after you die, won't he be forgiving, isn't that what you preach? Didn't he give you free will for a reason?

This is an interesting topic... Religion is always one thing that people feel VERY strongly about.

As for me, I'm with PinkIce on a lot of points. My organization is founded on Christian principles, and that means a lot to me. I have not been through initiation yet (Friday :D), but I know that several of my sisters are religious, and they would not be a member of an organization that was not Christian-based. As I've said before on this board, the use of Bible verses in the Pref night ceremony and the double mention of God in the Creed were two factors that influenced my decision to go Phi Mu. Our chapter even has a weekly optional Bible study. Christianity and being Greek CAN go hand in hand.

My church is not adverse to the Greek community at all. Actually, my decision to rush was heavily influenced by a Delta Zeta from another school who goes to my church. I think some people believe the hype about binge drinking and immoral behavior... but I think Christians in GLOs are working to change those stereotypes.

I would be interested to hear from a member of Chi Omega on this subject. I know we've all seen the website :rolleyes: and truthfully, I WOULD have a problem with their ALLEGED ritual. I'm 100% sure there are many members of Chi Omega who consider themselves Christian... I would like to know how they feel about it. I'm not sure that will ever happen though... it's obviously taboo to talk about ritual on GC for everyone to see.

Actually, the current Pope is John Paul the Second...

John XXIII 1958-63
Paul VI 1963-78
John Paul I 1978 (he took the names of both previous Popes to honor them...he was only Pope for a couple months)
John Paul II 1978-present - he is from Poland.

Incidentally, there was also a Pope Dionysius. :D

The Bible also says that "by their fruits ye shall know them." If an organization is founded on Christian principles, and are doing totally un-Christian things and carrying on in ways that are not by the Bible that is how you can see that.

Many organizations hold things secret, but not their history and why their were founded-- that is usually public knowledge. So if they say they are Christian and don't follow through (as an organization) that is a problem. Sure, you will always have a member or two that does not do the right thing, but that isn't what I'm talking about.

The Bible also says, "faith without works is dead." So to proclaim you're a Christian organization and act another way-- that's not right.

CUPrez

CU Prez, be really, REALLY careful.

The Bible also says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Accusing others of behaving opposite to Christian virtues can potentially come back to bite you in the behind. You may not "intend" to make accusations, per se, but your words are treading a fine line.

Unless you and your group can claim to be absolutely perfect, never make mistakes, never have an episode of bad judgement, or otherwise engage in wrong doing, you are setting yourself up to be lambasted as hypocrites. **Everyone** makes mistakes at one point or another. **Everyone** makes a judgement call that they would not repeat given another chance. I'll bet members of your group do too, we just don't know about it. It's part of being human and why we need forgiveness.

I would also not condemn anyone for wanting to maintain their privacy. GLOs keep certain things private. Just like you do. If you want your group to be respected, the quickest way to achieve that is to GIVE respect and be patient with people you disagree with.

Jesus didn't condemn the woman busted for adultery. Why are you condeming other Greeks for simply not proclaiming their faith in the same manner that you do?

Just food for thought.

You want to compare Christian organizations $'s donated to charity/service hours to that of regular GLO's?

Go right ahead:D

Many "Christian principles" do not necessitate a belief in Christ to be followed. Christians don't have a corner on loving their neighbor as themselves, turning the other cheek, etc. My ex was (at the time) an atheist and treated others in a far more Christian manner than some of the "Christians" who were shouting all the time about how righteous they were.

I think there are very few mainstream fraternities these days that say they are Christian orgs, since that used to mean that non-Christians were not allowed in.

One thing that has impressed me so much about the AOPi chapter on our campus is their annual babecue for arthritis. This year they raised $15000. Before then, I didn't know any AOPis and hadn't watched them very much to form an opinion, but this definitely gave me a great impression.

I belong to the Baptisit Collegiate Ministries on my campus, and every year we set a goal for our missions fund of $6000. This may not seem like a lot to groups that have 80-150 members, but we've only have about 30 people who were really active and about 15 that helped fundraise, so it was a big deal and something we were proud of when we raised $8-9000 the past few years. There are a lot of other things they do - a couple of years ago, when I wasn't even in school, I was having a hard time paying my bills and they paid my rent. They routinely donate to people's families if they need money for hospital bills, money after a family member dies, etc. My church has been showing the same kind of support to people in the community since it was started 15 years ago.

I personally have 80+service hours this semester - and found most of these opportunities through my church and BCM.

Just because a Chrisitan organization doesn't advertise everything they do in areas of charity or community service doesn't mean it's not there. Most of the good they do isn't advertised because they don't want to call attention to themselves, but to God instead. I'm not saying we're perfect, but I'm also not going to agree that GLOs (mine included) are better because they do so much to help their charities and do advertise it.