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Gee thanks Mikki, you took all the steam out of what I was going to say - but you do ask an important question that I'd like to add to:
What fraternity do you belong to? Would your Founding Fathers appreciate the hazing activities? Do they tie into your organizations ideals? Not likely. Would your national organization (if you have one) condone the activities you are so proud of? Charle, you also stated at one point that you "hated" the experience, yet you still went through it. Later, you stated you do not "give" wood now - why not? If you think it was so beneficial in hind-sight, and you believe in it so strongly, why are you not participating in it directly now? And, again, the question I'd still like to see answered: would you take accountability if, God forbid, something went wrong with one of your chapter's activities? ------------------ Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother. |
Not everyone has what it takes to be in an organization like mine. You have to prove that you can balance your life. You have to maintain a good grade point average. You have to show dedication to the orginization by participating in what we stand for: Philanthropy, Community Service, Furthering the Aims and Ideals of our Founders. You have to show respect, both for ourselves and for others. You have to show Commitment to all of the things listed above. I'm sorry you didn't make the cut in an organization like mine, but that's ok, you can settle for a mediocre frat that relys on wether their members can walk the day after their beatings. Not everyone has the good qualities I've listed, it's ok. There are organizations out there that will take you based on your ability to guzzle beer upside down from a keg. Don't worry, you'll do just fine in that kind of an organization. So far you have proved nothing to anyone other than you are a member of a frat that hazes. You have not stated anything that would give the impression that your organization is dedicated or committed to anything. You even have to hide the name of the Frat. because you KNOW that it is a disgrace. You've failed to prove that your organization is a worthwile organization. I'm beginning to believe that you aren't even IN a fraternity. You can't tell the name, you can't give us aims and ideals, you can't tell what your frat is dedicated or committed to doing. . .hmmmmm. . .I don't think you're a member of anything. If you are. . .prove it!
------------------ Mikki Gates Delta Zeta Alum Kappa Mu Chapter Sigma Alpha Iota Alum Eta Tau Chapter "I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." --Julia Roberts (Steel Magnolias) Visit me at: http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html and http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml |
Kool. Did you have a bake sale also while you were pledging? lol
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did you have spank each other and when it was your turn to get spanked say "You're my daddy! You're my daddy!"
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Now , now. Calm down little lady.
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I have this tremendous urge to reply to the previous few posts... yet I don't know where to even begin... so if this seems to wander around and/or gets excessively long, I apologize in advance. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif
Starting with the whole Frat vs. Navy SEALS PLEASE...Mikki's right. Your frat is nothing like the SEALS. Unless you really are planning on invading Iran. Or Canada. Or something. Personally, I would guess that there is some hazing that is uncalled for in all branches of the military. And I don't think it's O.K. However, I can only imagine that war really is hell, and those men and women who are unfortunate enough to go through it (war)will have to handle a lot more than most of us ever will. So I can see where some of those exercises that borderline on hazing are valuable (Mikke gave some good examples). What on earth is your frat involved in that requires you to be able to handle taking wood or other beatings, or whatever else you brag about? I will say this: I'm not, nor was I ever, in the military. I have a few relatives that were/are, but my knowledge IS limited in this area. Next... I think it's important to have pride in your GLO. I even think you, Charle, should be proud (although we apparently differ on why you should be proud). We all chose to earn our letters because of what they represent to us. It was something we value + want to be a part of. Which brings me to.. why haven't you told us the name of your GLO? I can tell you mine: Phi Beta Fraternity: a national professional association for the creative and performing arts. And I'll bet just about everyone else on this board will tell you theirs. It's got to be 1 of 3 things, as far as I can tell:
Speaking of value to the community.. even if you won't tell us the name of your frat, you could at least tell us something it does. To my knowledge, all nationals have at least 1 major philanthropy they support. And all of the chapters (even 'social') that I can think of do a lot of other stuff. And they have to worry about their grades while they're doing it, because if they don't, they can't remain active. Now, it seems in the last few posts we have all gotten a little upset and maybe frustrated. Even Mikki http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif But I agree with her.. it takes a lot to be a part of my organization. And it all comes down to Quote:
Getting off the soap box in just a minute, but first: Did you ask Mikki if she had a bake sale?! What does that have to do with anything?! And maybe they did and the $ went to help some underprivelaged kids or the homeless or to fight disease! How is that something to make fun of? Every year my chapter participates in "daffodil days".. it's in conjuction with the American Cancer Society and all the $ goes to help w/ cancer research. So do you want to make fun of me for selling daffodils? Or the men in my fraternity who sell them? Trust me, I won't be offended. Now i really am stepping down off the soap box http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif.. Charle- if you can justify to me hazing, i will leave it alone. (I won't agree, but I won't fight with you about it, either. Unless you really tick me off http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif )I mean like Mikki did with the SEALS.. for example: "We got paddled to teach us this..." And to be honest... I can't figure out how you can finish that sentence without sounding like a moron. And you can't say "to build brotherhood"--that's a total copout, and we all know it is. Ok, I think that's everything i wanted to say http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ SilverTurtle@greekchat.com Phi Beta Fraternity Phi chapter |
Do you want to know what Frat I am in? I am not a member of GLO "GLOW"....the Glorious Ladies of Wrestling....... If you really want to know what Frat I am in you can identify it by the tagline phrase. "Eight men thoroughly immersed.....". I am willing to bet that some of the people who posted earlier in this topic string can name my frat. Hint: Ronald E. McNair.
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Charle-
you have confirmed for me that there is a reason you're being so secretive about your membership. and i really don't care that much. FYI- I don't make it a habit to memorize the history, members, and mottos of every GLO (Greek letter organziation) or BGLO ('black Greek letter organization) there is. If you belong to a non-Greek letter organization, fine. My bad. I do like to be informed, but get real. If I just named off a few famous alumni of my fraternity, I hightly doubt you would have a clue what i was talking about. Your decision not to respond to my quesiton regarding justifying hazing tells me that you can't justify it. (Quelle surprise). ------------------ SilverTurtle@greekchat.com Phi Beta Fraternity Phi chapter |
I finally remmember my password. Anyway, this conversation is getting heated. I like it, it create an open discussion on the status of GLOs. Now here is the status:
(1) The pool that we are recruiting at are declining. Majority of GLOs are seeing a declining in membership. WIth few exception, those that are actually tackling the hazing, alcohol and other risk mgt issues aggressively. Perfect example is George Washington University greek system. Almost every chapters has completely eliminated hazing and saw it's number nearly triple in two years. (2) Many national organization are facing millions of dollars in lawsuits from risk mgt. problems. This mean, higher premium for insurances, and higher dues for its members. This will cause either prospective members not joining due to financial cost, active members going inactive due to financial cost, or a whole national organization declaring bankruptcy. GLOs were never meant to due secret convert operation in hostile countries. So we don't need any of this BS that has many of our leaders loosing their hair every night. It's quite simple, hazing is not acceptable, ever. Let me clarify, I'm not talking about wearing your pins, getting signature, all that things. Although if uncheck, those little thing will result in big things. ------------------ Try Not . . . Do |
----------------?????????????????????????????????/
>>>(1) The pool that we are recruiting at >>>are declining. Majority of GLOs are >>>seeing a declining in membership. WIth >>>few exception, those that are actually >>.tackling the hazing, alcohol and other >>risk mgt issues aggressively. Perfect >>example is George Washington University >>>greek system. Almost every chapters has >>>completely eliminated hazing and saw it's >>>number nearly triple in two years.--------??????????????????? Read the words spoken by brother in my Fraternity. Members Versus Men The Greek Letter Societies among our group appear to have entered upon a period of mad competition for obtaining members. Pledges are increasing in number. Scarcely a student on the college campus but wears a pledge pin or a frat pin. Are the fraternities forgetting their original high standards? Can it be said that every man who enters college is of Fraternity material? If in any place, our Fraternity has entered this mad race for members, pause and consider. "The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood. Eight men thoroughly immersed in the true spirit are far greater assets than eighty with lukewarm enthusiasm." |
I think some people/groups of people take the whole pleding/hazing thing too far. I am a member of a BGLO and I definitely want true sorors in my organization, but not at the expense of getting sued and having my chapter stripped. And we all have seen cases of this occuring. I believe that the women who are pledging should go through a process, but NO, I don't think we should beat them senselessly and try to break them down mentally/physically to the point where it creates problems. I have spoken with males of certain BGLOs who have told me that their process lasted for up to three years! I can only speak for myself (because my views don't necessary reflect those of my chapter or my sorority as a whole), but is this REALLY necessary?
Hazing is both a white and black issue, it's just done differenly by both groups. Both can result in negative consequences. I think there should be a limit to what we put people through. Just because someone is beat every night with a paddle doesn't necessary mean that person will be dedicated member. Just because you force some one to drink shots all night and then walk through snow naked doesn't mean that he will be a productive member. Many times these same people that you helped pledge are the same ones who fail to pay their dues or participate in community service events. Yeah, they get hazed, but only because they want to belong. I have spoken with frat guys who told me that the process they went through DID NOT make them bond with those who pledged them. Even after they crossed they did not have strong, positive relationships. Some say that if they knew then what they know now they would have bypassed undergrad. What does this say about the hazing that people are subjected to. The only way I would not have love for a soror is if she didn't know her history, wasn't active, or financial. If she contributes to the sorority and exemplifies all the positive qualities that we are taught to possess, then she is okay with me. |
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Earlier, I asked if God forbid, something goes wrong, were you will to be accountable as a brother? In the next post, your answer, apparently, was no. What kind of brotherhood is that? It may be true that pledges in your organization are increasing in number - but, what is the pledge/initiation ratio? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif ------------------ Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother. [This message has been edited by LXAAlum (edited April 21, 2000).] |
I figured it out - not too hard either - If Charle really is a brother of anything, it is apparently
Omega Psi Phi Q-Dog, Omega, etc.... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif Kind of interesting considering that their motto is: Friendship is Essential to the Soul http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif [This message has been edited by LXAAlum (edited April 21, 2000).] |
It's also interesting to note that Omega Psi Phi just settled with a hazing victim to to the tune of 1 million dollars.
Charle- how do you feel about that? Doesn't it bother you that fraternities and sororities (not just Omega) are losing so much money over such nonsense? Money that can go towards scholarships and charity? ZetaAce |
Wether or not any of us are bias, makes no difference. The fact of the matter is, it is illegal and participating in hazing not only puts his chapter in a bad situation, it puts all sororities and fraternities in a bad situation. Every greek organization feels the effects of hazing, wether it is their organization or not. The hazing situations from the past is what has caused the crack down and the new rules and regulations regarding pledge processes throughout the world. What his organization does affects my organization as well. It might not be fair or right, but it's true. So what his organzation does concerns me as well. I am not going to just sit around and just worry about what my organization does, I'm going to worry about all greek organization. If I don't think its right or good for a pledge in my organization to be hazed, I'm not going to think its right or good for a pledge in another organization to be hazed. We as individuals don't just represent our own organizations, we represent greeks as a whole. Why should I tolarate some guy who thinks its cool? Why should I let him give greeks a bad name? He's not only making it worse for himself and his own organziation, he's making it worse for all greeks.
------------------ Mikki Gates Delta Zeta Alum Kappa Mu Chapter Sigma Alpha Iota Alum Eta Tau Chapter "I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." --Julia Roberts (Steel Magnolias) Visit me at: http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html and http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml |
What Mikki said was right on. It's okay, and expected, that we all do things, including our intake process', different. But when people announe their hazing practices, it reflects all Greeks, even if it's not what's intended. The last thing any of us needs is more negative attitudes about Greek Life being spread.
------------------ SilverTurtle@greekchat.com Phi Beta Fraternity Phi chapter |
Number does matter. I know for chapters in my fraternity to be considered an active chapter in good standing, they must either have 40 or more members or in the top quartile of memberships on their respective campus. I've herd the argument of quality of quantity. I agreed with that, to an extent. A chapter wich has a low number has more problem to deal with. Problem such as financial and lack of resources. Number does matter. After all, the bigger chapter on campus has more functions, better mixers, more involved on campus and so on. That is from experience.
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Although I do not condone senseless hazing or abuse to anyone in any frat/soror., I think we need to stop judging those who haze and have been hazed. Every organization has their own process's that they put GDI's through for membership. Whether it be a paper process or whether they travel the sands each has the same goal.
What Charle and his LB's did to get their letter's apparently brought them together as a unit. Again whether his process was right or wrong, doesn't matter because in their view, and in their chapter's view they were made right. His frat. may overtly outlaw whatever process he went thru, but in reality it is a process that supported by most in his frat. If it weren't they would shut down UG's all together. Let me make one other point. It appears from reading the past posts, that some have exonerated those who are undergoing their process or being pledged from any wrong doing. I feel that any aspirant who is interested in joining an organization, particularly a BGLO, knows the deal before they undertake the process. Any BGLO member who disagree's with that is being unrealistic. Unfortunately, many expect their process to be tough based on rumors and movies. Every chapter in a frat./soror. does things differently. Some make it easy and some make it hard it's all up to that chapter. I think we need to stop looking at this from a one-sided point of view and look at Charle's side for moment and understand why he feel's the way he does. Peace!!! |
Just think about what you are saying " I need to beat this guy up so that he will be a good member of the fraternity" Where did this idea come from? Did your parents deck you when you didn't clean up your room in order to raise a good son or daughter? The fact is you may be creating people that stay with the fraternity but isn't that the same as the house wife who is beaten by her husband and then says she tripped down the stairs. Should you really have to tear a person down in order to build them up to be a strong leader? I sure don't think so. In my fraternity we create paddles as part of tradition. Hazing may have been a tradition in the past but when someone realizes a tradition is wrong it is there responsibility to change it. It was traditionally the man who has been the head of the household forever but now we share equal rights with women. This one example of breaking tradition. It really shouldn't be that hard to realize that beating these pledges isn't the true way to create a strong leader. I suggest every member of a greek lettered fraternity take a careful look at how they are running their pledge process and look how they could change it for the better.
Pi Kappa Phi University of Oregon |
Charle:
Where/When did you pledge? |
Okay,
I need to say something here. I had a friend who dated this guy who beat the sh!t out of her. I begged her to leave him, but she said that he was only teaching her to be stronger. Okay, how is that any different from some of the stuff I've read stated on this thread. No one who loves you or who is down with you beats you. Nobody who's family loves them does that. My Sorority is my family, so they build me up in positive and reaffirming ways, they don't tear me down, or claim to build me up by beating me down. Just like women who get beaten, and make every excuse in the book for it. This sounds the same. And, as far as I'm concerned the concept of paper is fine, but when someone uses it because someone in a Frat or Sorority gets the house in trouble due to hazing that's ridiculous. The people who beat the sh!t out of their frat or sisters should be the ones called paper, cause I don't think that any of the principles which an organization stands for would condone beating. And if they did, why would one chose to stand for that? In my Opinion, Kymberleigh [This message has been edited by Kymberleigh (edited August 11, 2000).] |
Charle, I got the wood in my frat also. 30 solid whacks on briefs, it stung big time, but I did not cry out for the most part, and probably made me more of a man going though it.
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Peace & Blessings
People, people...first, it must be understood where the taking of the wood comes from, for the BGLOs at least. It comes from the African Rites of Passage. Truth be told,to the BGLO Sorors & Frat, taking wood only happened during hell week. When it started happening from day-one of your process, I'm not sure, I wasn't there. Personally, I don't think it's necessary because ANYONE CAN TAKE PAIN! THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU MY SISTER/BROTHER AND IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BETTER SISTER/BROTHER. My Sisters/Brothers know the history of their organizations and uplift their communities by being positive role models for our youth. I find that most of the Sorors/Frat who toot their horns about being in the "century club (100 strokes of wood +)" always end up inactive after they graduate and you only see them at parties, step-shows, etc. You never see them at a conference or community service project. Finally, those six or seven weeks that you spend on line are just the beginning.....you continually pledge your organization until the day you die!!! --------------------------------------------- SapphireSensation RoyalBlueDivaDivine The Epitome of Finerwomanhood |
I found something interesting and I thought that it seemed relevant to this thread. I apologize in advace for its length.
To be honest there are many who fall prey to at least one of these situations. There is no easy way to say this, but there is one thing that must be considered. If you fall victim to the previously stated situations then it is possible that you were hazed and not pledged. If you don't know why wood was used, yet you are someone who thinks WOOD=PLEDGING; then I am sorry to say that you have a lot to learn about pledging. If you think that being forced to stay up all night for someone else's amusement is pledging; then you have got a lot to learn about pledging. If you disrepect or look down on other organizations; I am sorry to say you were not pledged. If you think that because you didn't take wood that you didn't pledge; you might be surprised to find out it is possible that you did pledge. Pledging is supposed to teach three things. Loyalty to the principles of the organization, loyalty to brotherhood/sisterhood amongst "ALL" men/women, and loyalty to the community from which you came. If you learned all of these things, no matter what your process was like, my brother...my sister you were pledged. If you did not...I am sorry to say you were hazed. To all my Greek, Non-Greek, etc. brothers & sisters, I charge you with two questions only you can answer. Were you pledged or were you hazed? Do you pledge or do you haze? |
And just a follow up...anyone can be physically intense; the challenge is to be mentally intense.
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I am not going to down any other organization that does not pledge or take wood, but I have to agree with Charle. I don't want anyone in my frat who didn't. Why is it important; because it builds strength and resolve to stick with something through all types of adverse situations. I can guarantee you that Dr. Martin Luther King jr. who was pledged knew he could handle anything thrown at him because of his experiences on line, as well as his faith. The ordeals of pledging that make you stronger and a strong faith can make you invincible. If pledging is done correctly, you finish with an attitude that you can conquer the world if need be or make serious social change no matter what the cost. That's why physical pledging is important. Yes anyone can take a beating for a day. That is not the hard part; the hard part is waking up the next morning and going through it again and again. Some of you may say that its senseless; I say it helps create brotherhood, and determination to see things through, to never quit in the face of adversity.
All of you who talked about how the SEALS were training for war and that's why they do those things and ya da ya da ya da da. Have you ever read a book on the Navy SEALS or actually talked to an instructor. The books interviews say some of the stuff instructors do to students is just to create unit cohesion, bonds, brotherhood. Is a fraternity mission similar to a SEALS? In the sense that each one is trying to build strong bonds amongst men yes. Now do fraternities recon beaches in surf that is 55 degrees of course not, but do fraternities create marches that could be potentially hazardous to the marchers, absolutely. So all this to say that pledging as far as I'm concerned is necessary in my fraternity. I don't believe someone can truly be a brother if they didn't pledge my fraternity. Oh and yes the hard part is not pledging that's easy the hard part is after you finished, but you need to earn the right. If you would like to see more of my views you can check out the Alpha Phi Alpha postings. |
Here we go again....
What exact parallels again can be drawn between Seals and Fraternity members - - none. The roles and purposes of membership in these organizations have nothing to do whatsoever with one another - you're comparing apples to oranges - something Charle repeatedly tried to do, without success. I would NOT want anyone in my fraternity to have to go through physical or mental hazing to "prove" they have what it takes to be a "man"....hazing flies in the face of every single fraternal ideal there is: honor, chivlary, respect, patriotism, morality, dignity, etc........ and I'd like somebody to try to argue otherwise...you'll fail. Tell me how hazing exemplifies your ideals...you won't be able to. Let me ask you this....do your parents (who more than likely paid for some of your college expenses, possibly even dues...) know what you went through in order to become a member? If not, why not? Don't give me the "secrecy of membership" tired response - certain secrets are esoteric, but, what about the hazing (which is not esoteric - it's illegal - there is a BIG difference)? Are they proud that you went through it? Finally, do you really think Martin Luther King Jr., would approve of taking wood? Consider the legacy of Agape and nonviolent change that he left to all of us...another contradiction in your arguments. [This message has been edited by LXAAlum (edited August 17, 2000).] |
I do believe that pledging is a necessary part of the greek system. I do feel that it has become some bastardized form of what it used to be. Wood does not mean that you pledged. It means that you can get in the cut and take it. There are various reasons for you to take wood(assisting the line, screw ups, just because). I want a brother who will go through the fire with me, not just physically. If wit is a necessary weapon than I do not believe that someone who only got their ass beat can contribute. The God of the Judeau-Christian faith tested his followers that he deemed worthy. He saw something worthwhile and decided to plant a seed, nurture the sapling and watch it grow. I will stop being so self-righteous.
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I think Martin Luther King Jr. took and gave some wood. At least thats what i have heard from some old school alphas. BTW Colin Powell took wood when he became a member of the pershing rifles (and he was willing to take some when he was looking into out org.)
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It is sad, if one thinks that he/she needs to be physically abused in order to bond. The question is after all is said and done, what are you doing with your symbols now? Are you financial, are you active with an ALUMNAE CHAPTER? Have you been to a national convention and participated in developing grass-roots initiatives?
Or... are you only seen at your school's homecoming, sporting your brands/tattoos, saying your call, and/or hazing future lines. I love my sorority, but I get frustrated when meeting sorors who were hazed and claim to be "real" and have not been active and financial in so many years. A soror told me that the work begins AFTER you get into DELTA and NOT BEFORE. In my opinion, that statement applies to all greek letter organizations, especially BGLOs. |
Is it common for a sorority that hazes (or used to haze) to take pictures of the event?
The reason I ask is because a link was posted on the movie "followers" message board that shows pictures of sorority paddling. It looks like its part of someones research paper or something. http://www.geocities.com/hazeandspan...g_pictures.htm Some of the pictures are old, but do look real. If I did choose to take wood, I doubt I would consent to pictures being taken. |
First of all I would like to say that I believe that it was wrong of you to expose Charle, the way in which you did. I am a member of Omega Psi Phi fraternity Inc. I may or may not have recieved wood which is truly none of your business. But this I will say, what is hard to endure is sweet to recall. I know that many of my bruhs and I have all talked about things that have happened while in the cut, this is yet another thing which we share with each other. I did not nor will not ever let anyone skate into my fraternity. I will never allow anyone under me or next to me hurt anyone. Getting and giving wood is a techniQUE to be mastered. If you don't like it DROP. THAT'S REAL DOGG. I Just Love Cooper and Coleman
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Wow. I just looked at those pictures. I'm not sure if they're real, but a couple of them look very real. Looking at those pictures and thinking about "sisterhood," I felt physically sick. I won't go on because other people on this board have already said what I've been thinking. Geez, counsellors and psychologists would have a field day with this board!
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------------------ Steve Corbin Lambda Chi Alpha Theta Kappa Chapter Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. |
Ewww....checked out that site...
...other than disdain and disgust, the only thought that comes to mind when I see crap like that, and, I see defenders of "cutting wood" post why they think it is essential is this: If you think it is so important, and such a vital part of the process - why not use these pictures on your rush poster? Why lie? Show them the "benefits" of being a pledge....join us, we'll beat the crap out of you - it's the only way! Ugghhh..... ------------------ Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother. |
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I can promise you this won't be at our recruitment events http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif ------------------ "Alpha Chi Omega - If you only had 2 wishes, what would your second one be?" |
After looking at those pictures again, to me its hard to say if they are ALL real or not. The very first one looks the most authentic, but the last ones (b&w) do not.
The ones in between are a coin toss IMO. I will say that in some of the pictures (that look real)the blond girl for example, is smiling. Like it's not a big deal or a dreadful experience. The same goes also for the few at the top(smiling or laughing). Would I submit to the same as the first couple of pictures? In a fun setting, to be honest I probably would. However, anyone who would submit to the same as the last sets of pics (with the marks) should seek professional help, and call the cops! |
You only want to see things through your eyes. First off I already drew a parallel for everyone to read between fraternities and the military. There missions are different but the bonds trying to be created are the same. As Charle said, Dr. King was an Alpha he was pledged and he pledged people in return. You obviously know not what you think on that point. Another thing my parents always taught me that anything worth having you have to earn. Oh and just for your information, my parents did not pay for any of my college education, and yes they do know that what I went through I earned. I guess you are one of those types who wants everything in life given to you. Well if you don't like challenges, I'm glad you didn't try and come through my organization. Dr. King would have laughed you right out the door.
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Wow, I looked at those pictures. I agree, some looked really fake. Yeah I doubt anyone would be smiling and laughing while getting their a** beat. But whatever.
I am totally against people taking wood to be in an organization. Any organization. I just think it's stupid and really serves no point. There are other things you can do to make someone prove they are going to work hard for your organization after they get in. As greeks, I think we've all been through certain trials and tribulations, good and bad, to prove our worthiness to our respective orgs. And I'm pretty sure that most everyone's experience did not involve some type of physical abuse. I'm just guessing though. I know my experience didn't involve anyone physically harming me. Man, all I gotta say is that if ANYONE laid their hand on me, whoa, I'd have to hit them right back!! They'd have to kick me outta the pledge class! I'd be a damn fool to let anyone try to hit on me just so I can be a member of an organization! What-EVER! I'm sorry but I LOVE my sorority w/ ALL my heart and I was ready to do what it took to get in. BUT I'm not about to let anyone hit me either or do anything that put my life in danger! Anyway, just think about this. So if you have a pledge class/line and you paddle them or whatever. What happens when after they've proven that they can take wood, they get initiated and then most of them become inactive? So was it worth them getting wood? Was it worth you giving it? I mean, wouldn't you rather have a brother/sister that was "paper" or "skated" and they work hard to uphold the values and principles of the fraternity/sorority? Or would you rather have someone who took wood then became inactive? Hopefully people would want the first scenario. If not, then I think some peope have serious problems if all they care about is bringing in brothers/sisters the "right" way. That is ridiculous! I would love to know the percentage of people initiated that stay active if they took wood. That would be interesting. But that's my .04 cents |
As far as Masons and goats (or any animals), there aren't any. I only know Blue Lodge (not Shrine, Scottish Rite or York Rite).
http://http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/goat.html |
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