Getting back to Jewish sororities. (I'm a conservative Jew) The degree to which various parts of Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes are associated with either specifically Judaism, more with Christianity (even though it is in the Jewish Bible) or almost viewed as Secular varies.

Specifically:
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 which is most of the lyrics of Turn, Turn, Turn isn't really viewed as Religious by most people,
Psalm 23: (The lord is my Shepherd) seems to be most often used by Christians and
Psalm 137:5-6:If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. I would associate that with a Jewish Sorority...

Disappearing posts.

Interesting.

And we get back to basics: when pledge programs were longer than a week and a half, these things were discussed. Pledges knew WHY the Founders suggested the use of relevant scripture, mottoes, songs, etc. Now, we're happy when they learn the Greek Alphabet.

Do new members even learn the Greek alphabet now?

A week? I was initiated in the fall and my period was 6 weeks, and that was the cap at my school. We did learn founders, history, symbols, etc. and as my NME said "this will all connect during initiation" and she was right when it was time for the ceremony. And she did mention Christian symbols were used and she simply stated that my org (and others) were made in a different time, and it's fine if it wasn't your personal beliefs. I can't imagine having to rewrite 100+ year old ritual.

We are exaggerating. Please don't take it literally. :rolleyes:

Oh no of course but I've heard of schools widdling down their new member periods to a week.

Theta Phi Alpha is not a Christian/ Catholic sorority. It’s not only open to all faiths, it does not have a faith affiliation.

Just because a sorority is open to all faiths does not mean that it wasn't established with a religious group in mind. The historically Jewish sororities are open to all faiths, but were founded to give Jewish students a chance to join Greek organizations at a time when Jewish students were not accepted in Greek organizations.

Likewise, "Theta Phi Alpha was originally founded to offer Catholic women the experience of sorority life, as other sororities did not include Catholic women."

The founders of any GLO will draw from their own experiences in the formation of their organization. I don't know much about TPA, but I would expect that their Catholicism played some role in certain aspects of the organization, even though TPA is obviously not a religious organization (no NPC sorority is).

For example, one thing I did notice is that TPA has St. Catherine of Sienna as a patron saint. No other GLO has a patron saint, and the idea of having a patron saint is something I would personally consider to be associated with Catholicism.

FWIW, as far as I can see, any post which has disappeared was deleted by the author.

*changed my above answer because it is possible that if someone was banned, all of their posts may have been deleted and I couldn't see that.

Yes, I indicated that. It was founded as a Catholic sorority, but became open to all faiths (as well as races and creeds) in 1968. It is not a "Christian" sorority. Likewise, AEPhi and SDT were founded as Jewish sororities, but they have been open to women of all faiths for many years.

To be more precise, it was a "Christian" sorority at the time of its founding, but it no longer has a religious affiliation.

Sigh, Cookiez, no you haven't or if you have heard such rank misinformation, you should have known better than to believe it. This is not true for any NPC group. And we are specifically talking about NPC here.

She may be thinking of those fraternities that initiate right after bid acceptance (?).

Yes. I saw several threads where fraternities were basically putting their new member periods to a week in an attempt to curb obviously harmful hazing. I know new member periods vary from campus to campus but from what i've seen most average it to end between 6-8 weeks.

New member period lengths are not decided upon by the school. They are decided upon by each NPC sorority's headquarters. The way that the new member period length and curriculum are decided may vary from sorority depending on their internal rules and processes (e.g.: the executive board makes the changes or it's voted upon during convention etc.), but the school has nothing to do with it. I don't understand why you'd talk about fraternity new member periods in a thread devoted to NPC sororities and not even mention fraternities.

It's very nice to see a young and relatively new sorority member so enthusiastic about our organizations here. However, as several have mentioned to you previously, you need to dial back on spreading what amounts to gossip and conjecture.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth, pledge periods lasted an entire quarter/semester. Those of us who put on our best animal skins and ambled over the sorority cave for our pledge meetings feel that we were much better prepared for initiation. We had a thorough knowledge of our orgs and histories, as well as the other orgs on campus. We learned the greek alphabet, the names of the other fraternities and sororities on campus, the abbreviations of those names, their badges and pledge pins and had to be able to recognize them on sight. We even learned where each fraternity and sorority on campus was founded and each founding date. Then a couple of sororities decided to shorten their pledge periods, and the other orgs joined suit-many, or all, without consulting their constituency. So we get new members who have a "skim the surface"knowledge of his/her org's history and initiates who are surprised to find out that their chosen orgs had a distinct religious persuasion.

I still can't figure out why anyone thought that was a better thing. There were those who spouted that it prevented hazing but I have never seen any proof of that.

My pledge class felt cherished during that time.

I was told (truthfully or not) that the shorter pledge program was for better retention of each pledge class. Well, yes and no. Pledges did have to learn everything that FSUZeta mentioned above, keep their grades up, and get to know their chapter sisters & pledges. For some pledges, that was a deal breaker, and they would depledge. Others thrived on this system, getting to know their sorority on a more personal level. Some of the ways we learned are now considered hazing, such as pledge books - things that most who had to have them enjoyed. I never heard of anyone who was punished for not having one, but I'm sure that there are bad apple chapters who did.

I can't help but feel that in most cases, the bad apple chapters ruined it for everyone.

So... now we have New Members who don't understand the whys behind their own rituals, and they want to change things to suit them. It doesn't - and shouldn't! - work that way!

I've contacted John about it. I've never been a mod, but I definitely posted something that is no longer there.

It's "whittle" not "widdle". Sigh.

And Sen, I saw your post. Where did it go??? Who moved it? This isn't the first time it's happened, either. Not only to you. I queried and got a similarly unhelpful reply. This was some time ago and I just dropped it. Counterproductive.

The cynic in me says that the shortened pledge periods are all about HQs getting all of those initiate fees which would ordinarily not be paid due to attrition during the semester. If nothing else, that's a pretty serious bonus. Probably amounts to some pretty serious money for larger orgs.

The cynic in me agrees with the cynic in you 💯

6 weeks is fine for a smaller chapter at a smaller school....chapters of 200+, I don’t know how you’d do it. (Not to mention that at many of those schools there are practically mandatory campus wide events that take up time, ie weekly football games).

For NPC groups it started with school admin trying to curb hazing and pushing the groups for shortened pledge periods. Last I heard, all but Chi Omega had gone to 6 weeks. they still have semester long...but that may have changed by now.

Didn't someone recently tell us that Chi O did go to 6 weeks? I swear I heard that.

BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MEN'S FRATERNITIES! For the love of Pete.... Men's organizations are vastly different from women's sororities in many of their policies and practices. Please don't confuse things. It is hard enough to keep up with the truth already.

Amen!!!!

Last I heard they were the only ones still making new members wait until after the semester had ended and they had made their grades to initiate.

I saw that you indicated that it is open to all faiths, but I also wanted to clarify that, in addition to being open to women of all faiths, TPA in itself does not have a religious affiliation. There are organizations that are open to people of all faiths while still being affiliated with a specific faith, but that is not what TPA is.

This type of entitlement reminds me of something orange.

Or someONE......

To which GLO do you belong?

To clarify for the 98th time, Delta Phi Epsilon and Phi Sigma Sigma were founded as non-sectarian sororities, meaning that while yes, their initial founders were Jewish, they did not believe that religious affiliation should be a determining factor in membership selection.

The rest of this is a ball of wax that will likely not be pretty when it's over.

Likewise with Alpha Epsilon Phi. The sorority was founded by seven Jewish women, with ideals based on Jewish ideals (so, not quite non-sectarian), but it was never a requirement that you had to be Jewish to join.

I was Catholic when I joined. Without saying too much about our ritual, I doubt any Christian would have a problem with it.

One of my closest friends is a DPhiE (now alum) and she's Southern Baptist, and another very close friend is Jewish and a Phi Mu. Sororities and fraternities should not change their ritual. Stay true to the ritual.

Do I recall Chi Omega being able to initiate classes from second semester primary recruitments at six weeks, since most of those students had already made grades during first semester? And where a campus only allows UC to be recruited (no frosh) isn't a six week initiation then allowed by Chi Omega?

Granted, it has been awhile, but when I rushed, we were "required" to work it into conversation during house tours that we were founded by "five Christian women".

My own experience as a non Christian/non Jew is that the religious elements of my ritual were totally fine with me. At the time I was agnostic, now I'm an atheist. I regard the Christian elements of our sorority as a pleasant and old-fashoned - much like the Greek mythology incorporated into these organizations.

I don't try to convert people to my way of thinking - we are all welcome to interpret based on our experiences. And I knew had I pledged D Phi E or SDT, there might have been elements that didn't line up with mine. They both cut me just before prefs, which I found disappointing.

Now, if they wanted to edit or change our ritual, I can't say I would be appalled or devastated. I think the critical elements would still be there. Namely - and I hope this is the underlying thesis of all orgs - "these are your sisters, be kind to each other".

But I don't have much of a stake in soft-pedaling religion in ritual.

Now, had our ritual stated that only Christians were good people and we should spit on non-believers, and that whites are a superior race, I would have politely gotten up and left.

It must be the partial quarantine getting to me, because somehow that sentence makes me laugh out loud.