oh, another thing
 

other than the friends i had in one particularly sorority, i didnt have too many preconceived notions of any of the sororities going into formal rush. when i did the informal rush for DG, i chose them because, altho i know chapters are different from campus to campus, i remembered liking them at UF and wanted to see if there was a common thread as to why i liked them and if these girls here were as sweet (and they were), the other reason was mere convenience, their sorority house was right across the street from my apt. complex at the time and i saw their banners go up promoting it.

aside from that, and maybe this could be a shallow perception, but during formal i totally sided with whichever houses i had the best conversations in..after all, that was ultimately how THEY decided to invite me back too, at least partially, right? from my rush thread, remember my excitement at being invited back to round 2 by 2 houses i really liked? that giddiness is what i remember most and thats the only memory I have now because in my major, there are no greeks in my classes this quarter so I can't further evaluate. i keep my ears and eyes open, though, and am on the lookout for events, philanthropic and otherwise to meet girls in orgs I'm interested in.

I just wanted to add a piece of info to the AZD's post. I do actually go to a school where total is 100 and quota this year was around 60, which brings some chapters' sizes to around 150. Yes, some chapters try to avoid taking non-freshmen, just because of what AZD has said. You still will find, however, at least one sophomore in every pledge class. We only have one this year, but last year we had three sopohomores and two juniors. It all varies from school to school, like everyone has already said, but this is just an example of the situation here.

Tri-Delt_Phi! Who hoo! :D Another Iowa Greek on GC, congratulations on becoming a new member of Delta Delta Delta!

Thanx so much! I really love being Greek here at Iowa! I've meet so many cool people, they guys are so much fun, the girls are nice.

Go Delta Delta Delta!

I went through Formal Rush as a Sophomore and was a bit scared about it, but it turns out that there were quite a few 2nd and 3rd years going through rush, and there were quite a few who got bids (like myself). There was one girl, however, a second year who rushed her first year and didn't get a bid, and got dropped after the 3rd night of rush her second year..

SKJACKEE....
 

....what school do you attend?

UC San Diego....why??

btw
 

I emailed a few of the chapters I'm interested in to inquire as to whether they will be doing informal rush in january and so far one has responded affirmatively. I will keep you all updated on how it goes..and I'm pretty sure a few other houses will, too, because the house that responded is one of the largest on campus and has a HUGE house.
oh, and GPHIBColonel..i emailed GPhiB, as well! I'll check em out one more time!

To skjackee and leilanimoon --I apologize for tardy post but we just installed a brand new computer...it's a Dell dude!! Yay! I love it!! My old one was so slow and cranky!
Anyways, skjackee, I was only curious about where you went to school because I saw you were in LaJolla and my folks live in San Diego -- the Tierra Santa area....I love San Diego!!!!
...and Leilanimoon, I am really happy you will check out the Gamma Phis again :D Keep us all posted OK?!

thank u so much gphib! uve always been so helpful!

Jennifer

Its funny, I have read a lot of the Rush threads and NPC rules as an outsider, a male, a fraternity member that doesn't use your system.

So please correct me if I am wrong, I am outside the box.

The corner stone of NPC operations seems to be Formal Rush and Formal Rush seems to work better at schools with an automatic Greek Draw.

When I say that, I mean there are schools where enough people want to go Greek that the sororities don't have to go out and do all kinds of marketing to attract PNM's.

ITs a literal RUSH, the PNM's herd through and you put on a good show and see how many you can attract. If you have a great reputation you don't even have to work to hard at the show.

These are the schools we are talking about when we say ultra competitive Rush and heavy cutting correct?

Formal Rush doesn't work so well at schools without a strong Greek Draw. Often the recruitment techniques chapters at the smaller schools use are quite different. I know at my school Formal Rush is mostly populated with people that have been kind of asked to come out. Recruited.

Ok the NPC model, in my understanding, is a flawed example of created economics.

The point seems to make it so that each house can stay at total or higher with relative ease (theoretically). So at some of these schools, in order to do this they have many less spaces available than there are PNM's.

This allows the sororities, especially the popular ones to be "selective" because there is an artificial demand for spots. The reason why I say this is artificial is that total could be higher or more groups could be invited on campus.

So if you are allowed to be selective like that, because there are so many applicants, you are going to start cutting heavily just for statistics.

GPA, Class, etc.

And yet going back to the example of the smaller Greek Systems, these factor a lot less. In smaller Greek Systems, upperclassmen coming out and getting bids is common. In smaller Greek systems they are grade conscious but maybe the new PNM groups doesn't average 3.5.

So to answer the original question, and keeping in mind that I am a boy, lol, there are only three answers that I see:

1. Increase the amount of spaces available to outpace the amount of PNM's by either raising total or soliciting new groups.

2. Make upper classmen free. No effect on quota.

3. Create a seperate quota for upperclassmen. Have them be considered a seperate entity. And have them be an entirely different issue.

I just had a grim thought lol.

Do upperclassmen do themselves out of spots?

If total number of PNM's factor into quota, but groups are going to cut upperclassmen, doesn't that mean the presence of upperclassmen just allows groups to recruit more freshmen? LOL.

Statistically?

Of your three answers, James, the most reasonable, looking at it from the perspective of someone in an NPC organization, would be to have a separate quota for upperclassman. But then you run in to the question of what is an upperclassman? Is it everyone but freshman? Or would it be a separate quota for each class?

Some schools have established a separate quota for juniors and up. This could work! However, I can see a sophomore quota being abused at certain universities. Sororities might tell PNMs who didn't get bids not to even consider open rush, they'd pick them up next year. However, the sororities couldn't be held to that and the PNMs would suffer for it.

Has the upper classmen quota worked anywhere? Anyone have any data on it?

Bama tried it, we haven't heard a thing yet.

Here, juniors do not count against quota, so I guess theoretically a chapter could take as many as it wanted.

Sweet. what about Seniors?

Is U of K one of those hard core Greek Schools?

What if you made it so that recruited Juniors and seniors didn't count towards total during informal recruitment?

Would that be an additional boon?

Because during informal recruitment there is no quota correct?

Penn State has used a seperate quota system for juniors since 1995?!

Their statistics are only updated through 2000. Here is the link for those interested:

http://www.sa.psu.edu/greeks/PHCformalrush.shtml

They wouldn't take juniors or seniors if they didn't count towards their total? Its like free members. Say total is 200. If they can recruit 30 more juniors and seniors during informal rush, it doesn't count towards their Total.

Well, it's not like the big schools in the Deep South or anything, but it can get competitive, yes. Freshman have the best chances of pledging the larger houses.

that was pretty interesting...i was wondering if being a junior at penn state makes joining a sorority difficult. since only a smaller number of freshmen are admitted to the main campus and most people transfer in from the smaller campuses junior year, is junior status looked down upon by the groups? would chapters not give someone the opportunity to pledge even tho they never had the opportunity to before? is this why they made the juniors "free?"

I just read this entire thread, and this is obviously a bigger problem then i was aware of. I can only add this thought: while it is easier for freshman to rush bc they are younger, why wouldn't it be easier for sophmores or juniors to rush because they know people. Granted, I come from a small private college in the south with a rediculously large greek population, but when sophmores espe. went through rush we all went nuts and everyone was so competitive over them because we all went out and got to know them, if we didn't already. As for Juniors, two girls in my pledge class were juniors, one ended up graduating with my class bc she had transfered and was in a hard major, the other got in and came to social functions and then disapeared. She only saw joining as a social aspect- she had already made her friends and her way through college and she didn't really need us....at least thats what it felt like. Also, when she did come out she never spent time with our pledge class- always with a few upper classmen that she knew before she got in.
I think that is why orgs. are afraid to take Juniors esp....orgs feel like these pnm's "don't need to glo" or only need it for social reasons.

COB
 

I'm a junior at UK and there is pretty much no way of getting in a larger house unless you're a freshmen. I'm doing COB right now. Wish me luck!

Re: COB
 

That's totally true. I was eventually cut from all the biggest houses except one, and being a sophomore was probably the reason (so I'm told...but hey, if they didn't like me, that's fair enough). Juniors do have a chance, though. My roommate's friends were trying to get her to wait and rush when she was a junior by credit hours, because they could take her then. But she ended up joining our sorority instead. :p

Good luck with COBing! :)

.
 

Thanks AchtungBaby80!!!

UKDaisy, best wishes with your rush experience!

i didn't go through recruitment until i was a sophomore. i was so scared because i had a bad experience during my freshman year with recruitment. i had never went through rush so the girls screaming and yelling freaked me out and i left. they tried to calm me down but i was like, 'oh my goodness, these girls are crazy!'
so, sophomore year after i had partied with everyone and become a favorite at parties, i decided 'hmmm, maybe i'll rush again because i really want to go greek!' this rush scared the hell out of me because i had transferred school and was the only minoritiy in the room. i started to walk out when another girl came in behind me and goes, 'i can tell what sorority i'm not going to be in!' the room was full of blondes. so, me the minority sophomore and her the brunette freshman, walked in together. we ended up in teh same rush group. and every night, we would pray that we didn't get cut. i got cut from one group because my GPA was a 2.75 and she got cut from another group because she was 'it'. i was upset about the grade cut and she was like, 'but you still have so-n-so. . .shut up!'
well, she and i ended up making the heartfelt decision of going PHI SIGMA SIGMA(only i thought she was going someone else and since i still had the 'it' sorority, she thought i had chosen them.'
the best feeling of all, i was so nervous that i got cut because i was older. . .but when i went to get my bid card and i walked down with the other girls, the phi sigs bomb-rushed and tackled us to the ground. . .and i looked around. . .and there was my friend. . .hugging and taking pics with our new 'blonde' sisters.

now, we're archon and vice archon of a chpater. . .

so, if you're a junior going through rush, just shrug it off and be yourself. . .at least you've proven that you can handle college. . .

bump...
 

...saw a new rush thread started on this topic but I don't know how to include it in my post so I am bumping it up....

What a cool story, White Chocolate!! Thanks for sharing!

For the schools with a serious problem, couldn't they modify some of these ideas in the following fashion:

Encourage juniors and seniors to sign up for formal Rush BUT, don't have them go through with the Freshmen. Have an extra day of rush for the upperclassmen and don't include them in total, but you could quota them if you were afraid they all wanted the "best" houses.

LOL. You girls . . . I swear:)

What I don't understand is -- if you don't include juniors & seniors in total, what's to stop a house from giving bids to 300 of them? Would that just never happen, or would it not be a bad thing? Maybe that's a dumb question (probably) but it's just something I've always wondered whenever anyone mentions the topic.

I am a sophmore who went through formal and then informal and got very undesirable choices(mainly because of my GPA). Not that I wasnt willing to give them a chance, but I felt that while going through informal, the girls were just trying to fill quota and they werent even nice. My roomate wasnt even rushing yet they gave her a bid.
Now I am gonna be a junior and I fear that my chance of ever going greek is gone. What are my options? A junior going through fromal here at my school is virtually UNHEARD of.

Thanks a bunch

Kelly

Kelly....
 

...as you may have read here on this thread, some colleges do not count juniors against quota -- you may want to ask the Greek advisor if that is the case at your school. Regardless, you can start now to get recs lined up for all the sororities at your school - check with the local alumnae Panhellenic group for help in this area. Where do you go to school and what sororities are there? Also, are you a legacy or do you have any Greek relatives? Talk to them. I personally rushed as a junior in formal rush at a pretty competitive school (Southern Cal) -- I had no recs -- I had no clue to even ask for them -- and I had no Greek ties in any branch of my family tree...so I know it is tough, but it CAN be done. Are your grades good? Do you have strong extracurricular activities? How is your appearance? That last question may seem shallow, but if juniors are not freebies, then looks WILL factor into the equation...all other things being equal. Keep thinking positive and let that positive sunny outlook be reflected when you do rush. Make the sororities WANT you no matter what year you are in school! Keep us posted and ask questions...one thing I have learned here on Greek Chat is that everyone is very helpful and they all have great ideas! Good Luck!

Thanks for your response...
I go to IU...Indiana University...where Greek Life is like the major part of campus.. There are many sororites on campus...there are 19 with houses...Alpha Chi Omega, Alpha Delta Pi, Alpha Epsilon Phi, Alpha Gamma Delta, Alpha Omicron Pi, Alpha Phi, Alpha Xi Delta, Chi Omega, Delta Delta Delta, Delta Gamma, Delta Zeta, Gamma Phi Beta, Kappa Alpha Theta, Kappa Delta, Kappa Kappa Gamma, Phi Mu, Pi Beta Phi, Sigma Delta Tau, and Zeta Tau Alpha...and a few without houses. Each house is huge...they have one house for sell right now at over $1 million and they usually have 100 to 150 girls in each.

Formal Recruitment is a big deal at our school that spans from around October in the fall semester to January in the spring semester. You go to every house at 19 party...then you rank...then you hang out with your rho chi and get to know your rush group better...then come january you go to 12, 6 and 3 party by invite....I made it to three party and then didn't get invited back after. I had thought that all three houses went well and the conversations were great. I understand that houses can only pick so many girls and there are obviously people more fun and enjoyable then me! haha

So I signed up for informal rush and a house that I ranked in the bottom few on my list called me. I am very open minded and of course gave them a chance. I went to their events like every day for almost 2 weeks. It was fun and I enjoyed it but was unsure if it felt like "home." The last event I went to, I took my roommate who wasn't even rushing..she just wanted to see what sororites were like, and they called my room that night and asked to talk to her and invited her to join. I was like "WTF?!?!" but its cool.

So now I am wondering if it is time to give up. Since our campus has such a huge Greek Presense, I feel like I am missing out a great deal.

About myself:
My grades are good...my GPA usually fluctuates between 2.7 and 3.0. I am a business marketing major which is a very commom major at my school.

I actually got recommendations for a few different houses from various alumna...two actually from the chapters here at IU.

I am not a legacy but I have a cousin in one house that graduated last year.

I am in volved in extracurricular activites as much as any business major can be. Habitat for Humanity, Toastmasters, sports, and work

As far as my looks...i know it may sound shallow but I know just from my cousin that at least her house looked for people "You could share clothes with" if you know what i mean.

I am 5'7 with straight blonde hair past my shoulders, I weigh like 130 and I am in shape (as far as sharing clothes...size 5)...constantly smiling...god attitude! all my friends were shocked to find out that I wasnt invited to join...even some of my friends in the houses are like "Im gonna try to find out why you didn;t get invited back"


Based on all that...I feel like going through rush again is like kicking a dead horse...

Gosh, I have written a novel here! sorry!

well any advise you can give me is appreciated!

Thanks a bunch!
Kelly

IU Kelly

Here's my advice, and anyone can chime in if they think I'm wrong...

If you're a freshman, then go through rush again. I have several friends who went through rush their freshman year, did not get picked up by any houses (that they wanted), worked hard after that (GPA, community service, etc), and got into a great house their sophomore year.

If you're a sophomore, its going to be tough, but I say go for it again. I know one house that took a junior last year, and they're not that bad.

A lot of the houses with "bad reps" have improved tremendously over the past 3 years. And seeing as how there are fewer fraternities every semester, everyone is partying with everyone now anyway.

Also, if the house was lower on your rush "pref" list, I would still keep an open mind and give it a try (visits that is). Sorority rush is so intense and I couldnt imagine a girl getting an accurate view of a house in the 30 minutes that they alot.

If you dont "feel" the sorority, then I would say not to go with it. I'm sure people can tell you sob stories of how they joined a sorority they didnt feel comfortable in, just to be greek, and ended up regretting it later.

On the flip side, there are girls who join a house that they didnt like at first, and LOVE it now. As you know, houses at IU are HUGE, so it would be impossible for you not to find girls with similar interests in whatever house you join.

And of course, you can always go through pledgeship (or whatever the pc term is for it now) and if you dont like it, drop out before initiation.

I guess the true question is, is it better to be Greek in a house that you might not like then to not be greek at all.

For some people, the answer varies.

If you want any more advice...or if you have questions about specific houses, PM me and we'll chat.

But keep working, many houses have informal rush in the fall, its very secretive, but if you connect with the right people, you may find yourself in a house yet!

Xp2k

Bump!
 

I'm bumping this because it's being discussed on the board again and I think it's always an important topic. This is a rockin' thread.

Here's my situation...
 

I'll be formally rushing as a junior in the fall at Univ of Tennessee...I have some concerns because of my upperclassmen age. I'm really not worried about anything else because I'm pretty outgoing, really nice and I think I can definitely contribute to being a good sister in a sorority. Here's my delimma:

Since I'm transferring I'll more than likely be there for 3 years. Also another thing, if they ask why I didn't rush earlier, I'm going to tell them what happen (*the reason was that I didn't know what I wanted to major in so i took as many core classes as I could so I wouldn't fall behind. I also didn't think, since I was so busy with classes, that it'd be fair to put in a half-assed job to a sorority or to myself. When I give to an organization I give 150% and at the time, I knew I couldn't so I didn't want to sacrifice either of us.*) In high school, however, I was MAD busy. I was involved with 5-6 organizations throughout high school and managed to maintain my time, have a social life and maintain pretty good grades. My organizations were pretty diverse too and I was never in a "group" of friends, just a floater. I was involved mainly in the performing arts department (and still am when I get a chance, in the community) I am a memeber of my schools Thespian troupe, and I am also a member of the Tri-M Music Honor Society. I was also in a group called Showtime and Showstoppers which are very elite choral groups where we sang and danced, competed (in Disney World and actually junior year we had a competition on a Carnival cruise to the Bahamas and won first place! Go us!) and also performed in and around the community for nursing homes and Special Love which is a camp for kids with cancer. It was a lot of fun and I did that all 4 years. I also was a cheerleader for two years and I cheered on the basketball, football, lacrosse, wrestling, soccer and baseball squads as well as competition squad. In addition to ALL that *yeah, I know, SOO much, right!* I was photo editor for my schools nationally recognized yearbook for two years. I also performed in One Acts, all the theater shows and this show called Blast from the Past which is a rock and roll revial of oldies songs, great times, and I definitely still keep in touch with all the people. But anyway, thats my story.

Also, just because I'm a junior doesn't mean I still can't contribute after I graduate, right? Although college is 4 years at a school (or 2-3 years in my case) sister's don't just stop after college, sisterhood lasts a lifetime, and I definitely plan to mention that!

Thanks to everyone who supports the potential rushees for the fall and good luck to everyone who is rushing! *Mwah* :D

Red Fox---

What you just explained is fantastic!

I think if you told the women what you just said to us (about your involvement on campus, your accomplishments, the fact you'll be there 3 years, and that you want to be an active alum in your future group), they'd be crazy to cut you just because you were a junior.

However, I'm sure someone can speak to U of Tennessee's rush specifically....