Not really sure that using the terminology of Plessy v. Ferguson is the way to go. If the reasoning doesn't separate Social groups from Professional/Honorary groups, then the argument becomes why shouldn't Title IX have covered all the groups with Greek Letters, treating (for example) Delta Delta Delta like Phi Delta Delta, Cwens and Omega Phi Alpha.

They don’t have to bid anyone. No sorority does. Also, if there’s only one sorority, the NPC chapter would automatically dissolve.

The sports team thing is that there are supposed to be as many opportunities for women as for men - you can’t have a football, baseball, and wrestling team for men and then just a golf team for women.

The groups will simply run as local fraternities and sororities with a half dozen members of the opposite sex on the rolls, who just happen to be not very active and never show up for anything. (That’s what I would do, anyway.)

Here is an article published in today's New York Times about Delta Gamma closing.

According to the article, Theta is not so much closing entirely as becoming gender-neutral - I'm guessing something similar to Kappa and Fleur-de-Lis? Of course, as a gender-neutral group, they could not continue to operate as a Theta chapter.

I think it is completely disingenuous to view this as anything other than imposing punishments that led to the chapter closing. And CLOSING is exactly what happened. Just because the same group of girls start a new type of co-ed organization does not mean that the Theta chapter is just reorganizing or becoming a different kind of GLO. It is GONE.

They can call it whatever the hell they want. The plain truth is that Harvard drove the established Greek system out of Harvard, so that the students have no one to oversee or answer to other than Harvard.

I am shocked at the poor comprehension of the writer of that article, who claims that

"the campus’s Kappa Alpha Theta chapter last week announced that it would become gender-neutral."

Kappa Alpha Theta in no way ever announced that any chapter would become gender neutral. The girls chose to return their charter and disaffiliate with Kappa Alpha Theta. They had no choice.

And yet didn't do anything to really sever the history. Theta's Zeta Xi chapter became Theta Zeta Xi...

That article - as well as the recent Teen Vogue article applauding Theta’s first gender neutral article- are so full of misinformation it’s not even funny. Especially when Theta’s nationals released a statement saying they fought the administration until the end and will continue to champion sororities as important womens organizations.


The unfortunate thing is that none of this is about Harvard’s Greek system. It’s about the administration’s hatred of the elite men’s finals clubs and the only way to shut those down was to pass this assenine policy to eliminate all single-sex organizations. The Greeks are just collateral damage in a decades long fight.

And why should they? I don't see your point.

Further, for what it's worth, naraht, those Harvard Thetas are my sisters. They, to the best of my knowledge, have all attained alumnae status. I've read nothing to indicate otherwise. They did not resign their memberships. They have a history that deserves to be preserved.

This chapter closure was not the result of a disciplinary action by the Fraternity.

The relinquishing of the charter is painful for everyone involved. Further, I suspect my Delta Gamma and Kappa Kappa Gamma Panhellenic sisters are experiencing similar feelings about the untenable situation which was thrust upon us. Make no mistake; the Harvard Theta women are not outcasts from the bonds which joined us through our shared initiation and ritual. To me, it was an impossible situation and there's nothing else to say or do. It's done. Stick a fork in it, and move on.

Considering how many times even chapters who part contentiously with their national still retain some connection to the old GLO or chapter name, I wouldn’t understand why on earth a chapter that was by all accounts on good terms with HQ and composed of exemplary sisters (and only took this action because they were flat out blackmailed by the host institution) WOULDN’T want to keep their name as close to the group they were forced to part with as they could.

Obviously the groups are probably still going to be referred to colloquially by students (at least for a while) as Kappa, DG and Theta, regardless of what they rename themselves, the same as we never stopped calling Prince Prince. But that is an entirely different matter.

Those same writers wrote a previous article and very clearly stated that the members of the Theta chapter were closing it and forming a new gender neutral group - not that there would be a gender neutral Theta chapter - so I’m going to chalk this mistake up to a dolt of an editor.

How do you "sever history"? History IS what it IS.

You cannot go back in time and change history. You can ignore history, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. You can wipe out the memory of historical events, but that doesn't change what occurred. :rolleyes:

True, but some of the changes were a little bit *less* obvious than others.

I think I'm oversensitive here because I've worked with documenting fraternities and sororities in the Philippines and most of them are not only open about where their greek letters come from, they deliberately point it out (So for example, the large Fraternity/Sorority combination of Tau Gamma Phi and Tau Gamma Sigma stand for Triskelion Grand Fraternity and Triskelion Grand Sorority and their primary symbol is the Triskelion. (Think of a Swastika with only 3 arms)

Campuses that only have one NPC don't do a formal recruitment. They do informal recruitment only. Some campuses with 2 and 3 NPC chapters also do all informal recruitment. It's a different animal. They only take who they want. No quota, no chapter total. Usually they set goals for themselves.

I totally agree.

Every time I read another article about this, I want to be sick. This line really gets me:

KP will also have to appoint an official to liaise between the group and the College and will need to adopt required trainings around topics including sexual assault prevention.

So an organization that force to allow men into then has to train the men they were forced to allow in how not to rape? I'd love to write that sex assault prevention program. It would look like this:

1. Do not rape anybody or touch them against their will.

Period. End of training.

Sexual assault is not just men assaulting women.

I’m also guessing that the training spoken of is something all social organizations have to do and isn’t necessarily about preventing sexual assault among the members of the group, but preventing it in general. The article isn’t too clear, but I would think if they have to take a course about not assaulting each other, the story would come right out and say it - that’s a way juicier story.

Kappa DID close at Harvard. There is no longer a chapter of Kappa Kappa Gamma at Harvard. Fleur-de-Lis is not Kappa. The Kappa sisters became alums and the chapter was closed.

While there is no longer a chapter of Kappa at Harvard, the sisters formed a new group, Fleur-de-Lis. That's what I mean when I say "becoming" - the chapter relinquished its charter, but the members of that chapter formed something new. I NEVER said Fleur-de-Lis was Kappa! New members of Fleur-de-Lis will obviously not be Kappas.

And now Alpha Phi is gone... :(
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...pha-phi-co-ed/

Tell me if I am wrong? F**K Harvard!:mad:

Their self importance is becoming underwhelming!:confused::eek:

I think the whole Greek Community should put out notices, "Is Harvard That Important outside of their egos'?

They mean 0 to me!:cool: Over priced being one classification!:mad:

Many Schools actually better over all!:D

All the women-only groups are gone while the majority of the male-only groups are still operating "because they have been on the campus for a longer period of time"-- of course they have, Harvard was a male-only school until the 1970's. A blatant example of marginalizing the women on campus.

DaffyKD

How is it marginalizing? The women are the ones who made the choice to cave. All of the men in those male only groups will still be denied the campus leadership positions and scholarships. The lobbying firm that the fraternities’/clubs’ lawyer is working with includes NPC as a client. I’m sure if the women had made the choice to be part of this suit, they’d have been more than welcome.

If Harvard is so all-fired insistent on eliminating single-gender organizations, why are their all-male sports teams permitted to exist?

They also have all-female sports teams, so that reasoning really doesn't work.

I know Harvard is a private university but does It receive ANY federal assistance? If so, could Title IV be brought up as a reason to keep sororities all-female, especially since some of the old male groups can still maintain their 1-gender status? Because that’s discrimination.
Maybe Kevin can answer that.

Sure it does. There were all-male and all-female final clubs and Greek orgs too. There's no difference at all.

As was noted in the comments of that article posted about Alpha Phi, the male final clubs will continue without any sanctions against their members because they are private, non-university affiliated organizations. It's like them saying that nobody at Harvard could be a Boy Scout or Girl Scout. Can't happen.

The members who remain of the single-gender finals clubs will be sanctioned the same way the members of single-gender sororities and fraternities would have been or will be: lack of recommendations for scholarships or ability to hold leadership positions. Harvard could expel students who join these groups if they wanted to, but they chose not to, as this article details. My guess is they thought expulsion would alienate too many alumni from donating.

I also wonder how they'll know who are members of finals clubs or other single-gender orgs. It's not like they're getting rosters, and finals clubs don't come with stitched letters. Are they stalking social media for references?

Sports teams are not social organizations, and it would be silly of us to think that the same kinds of membership requirements apply to both.

Thank you, I don’t know why everyone keeps acting like the fraternities and clubs that stayed all male are getting off scot free. If they don’t care about losing out on scholarships and campus leadership positions, that’s their choice. This has all been by choice. I doubt that any of the sorority HQs would have shuttered a chapter here for low membership, given the circumstances.

Don’t some of the Greek chapters in Canada operate independently of their schools? The sororities at Harvard could have done that, but they would have still been subject to the sanctions.

I believe that the sororities are Harvard were ALREADY forced to operate independently of the school. There was no official or school recognized chapter of Theta at Harvard University. The chapter was not allowed to refer to Harvard in any published material. They were a "Cambridge" chapter.

Those schools are not actively seeking to punish members. For example, Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario is notorious for being anti-Greek. Yet, three fraternities (Alpha Epsilon Pi, Kappa Sigma and Zeta Psi) and one sorority (Alpha Pi Phi) have Kingston chapters where their members just so happen to go to Queen's. They get by on that technicality, and I think so long as Greek life does not get much bigger on campus, the university is willing to let it slide. They don't have sanctions against students who are members of these organizations, to my knowledge.

The same is true of the DG chapter there. It was the "Cambridge" chapter before dissolving. And, the dissolution was at the request of the collegians who did not want to give up the other scholarship and leadership opportunities. Of course, they could have remained. But, at what cost??

As the Harvard administrators expected, the women felt it was better to end their affiliation with the national sororities and become Ivy, Fleur de Lis or Kali Praxi, etc. Time will tell if the remaining men's organizations will succumb to the same pressure or if they prevail in court.

It does work when you realize Harvard is imposing these sanctions for the single reason of someone choosing a single-sex group.

If they really want to say that is contrary to their principles, then all single-sex groups should be contrary to their principles.

This is simply a way for Harvard to get rid of undesirables.