Those kinds of rumors usually have to deal with a smaller chapter that it's believed will be shut down for lack of members. From what I gather, it's pretty common knowledge at IU who is on probation or other sorts of discipline. If I heard from every third person that XYZ was on probation, I'd probably believe it. However, if I liked them enough, that probably wouldn't matter to me. When I rushed, one of the chapters had a fairly nasty hazing reputation. That isn't the main reason I cut them though, I cut them because they were rude. If I would've walked into the party and felt like I'd found my home, I wouldn't have cared about the rumors, no matter how prevalent they were.

Not addressing your other comments b/c you already know where I stand on those issues, and others have also commented on the parents' "right to be angry" . :)

I can't follow or agree with your reasoning, and I offer my opinion based on personal experience. Here's why I think differently than you do on this issue:

We do not permit alumnae to participate in membership selection. We do not permit alumnae to attend chapter meetings (unless they are on the advisory board), and interfere in chapter business. We do not permit alumnae to attend social functions. Alumnae do not participate in chapter discipline proceedings. And so on. A "full explanation" involves details of chapter business which, frankly, are not alumnae business. As alumnae, we have a responsibility (and even a duty) to trust our headquarters/executive offices to be in charge and on top of what's going on at the college level. That is not our concern. There is a very strong element of trust, as well as ritual, involved here. And you can see where I'm going with this, as can anyone else who's reading.

In my experience, alumnae who "came out of the woodwork" only wanted to know gossip, dirty details, and "what did those girls do wrong?". The alumnae who were involved with the chapter, and the recent alumnae (new graduates, or those who graduated within the past five-ten years) are generally well aware of problems which lead to a chapter being put on probation or stricter discipline. And the rest of the Greek community, as well as the University administration, is aware. It is up to the individual members to explain (or not) to their parents. The members know why this happened.

For me it is enough to read that the chapter was closed for the reason(s) given. There is no correlation between providing a "full explanation" and writing a membership recommendation. It's apples and oranges. They are not equivalent.

I don't think whatever happened should be put on blast for the world to see just so alumnae can know what's up. But if a chapter alumna contacts HQ asking what happened, IMO she deserves more than just some vague corporatespeak about values and purpose. She wouldn't be a sister if that chapter hadn't existed.

Perhaps if some of the alumnae of chapters that close DID know more details of why it happened, they'd understand and agree with why HQ made such a decision and have more trust and respect when it happens in the future. It would be great if every single GLO chapter out there had a perfect relationship with their HQ, but as both those entities include humans that are capable of mistakes and emotions, it doesn't always work that way.

There are 4 groups involved in every chapter closure - the college chapter, the alumnae, the national office and the campus Greek system - and if you put all their viewpoints in a blender, perhaps you would come out with 100% accuracy of what happened.

ETA: this is speaking generally, not this chapter in particular.

Why look at it as a parent? Yes, that sounds dismissive, but I'm serious. These are women (not girls) who took obligations to do certain things and not do other things. They took those obligations freely. Some knew when they took on the obligation that they were not paying for them, but where they get the money to participate is purely between themselves and the money-givers (presumably the parents). The parents are not members, did not take those obligations, and have no skin in the game.

It's not a "legal right to feel that way" -- it's recognizing that they have every right to feel whatever they do; they have no legal right to act on it.

That's pretty much what I said in the first sentence :) There seemed to be posts that were expressing incredulity that parents even had an emotion about it. I'm not sure why it would be surprising as we are living in the Helicopter Age.

Especially since the chapter would have been celebrating their 100th anniversary this year.

I almost mentioned the helicopter age, then chose not to. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

And also the age of people thinking that the legal system exists to validate their feelings.

I really cannot believe that:

1. People actually think the members don't know why this happened.

2. Parents are involved.

I was in the meeting with the Executive Board at convention when the decision was made to close my own chapter (numbers, not risk management reasons). It is an experience I would never wish on anyone.

The thought that Tri Delta would close a chapter like IU on a whim without making the process exceedingly clear to the members over many months is ludicrous. Only someone with their head in the sand and in complete denial would think otherwise. For DDD to close down this chapter, it had to be bad and long-term.

TriDeltaSallie,

You summed this up perfectly! Thanks for your comments.

Hear, hear Sallie!

I agree entirely.

The question ultimately is: are the collegians holding back, making it seem like they did nothing wrong, so the parents are outraged "for" them... or have the parents gone rogue?

I think it's outrageous that the parents are taking this on and demanding answers, but at least I might understand it a little more if the collegians are shrugging their shoulders and playing dumb.

That being said...

Petition signing and lawyers? Get real.

Well put, sister!

Regarding the talk of whether or not alumnae should receive an answer regarding what happened from EO, there's nothing saying that alumnae have not been informed. However, this is chapter and organizational business, and details of what happened should not be necessarily spread around. As an alumna of a different chapter (and not a volunteer, etc), it's not my business regarding what lead to this chapter's closure. I trust that my organization took the proper and necessary steps regarding this chapter's closure.

I have a genuine question/concern for the new members who were not yet initiated (thank goodness) into the organization in question. WHY can't you tell girls during recruitment that a chapter is on probation and/or is at risk of being shut down?

My freshman year, I was a new member of one sorority. This sorority was shut down about halfway into the new member process for a variety of (valid) reasons. My new member class was not yet initiated. It was a crazy time. We had someone from Nationals (I can't remember her title, kind of like a CDC for DG's) living in the house for WEEKS and on the day we were all supposed to be initiated we all got ready, including the lady from Nationals, and she got a call a few moments before initiation from Nationals to shut down initiation because they were about to revoke the sorority's charter. Yes, the chapter was a MESS. But the decision was that last minute. All of us new members were extremely confused. During the recruitment process, NO ONE had told us the chapter was in trouble, because our Pi Chis / Rho Gammas were not allowed to say a word about it. And no, I did not hear any kind of rumor or talk about how this chapter was such a mess. Word just didn't get around at my school like that. Perhaps this school in question is different, and the girls going through recruitment did know the chapter was in trouble. But the fact of the matter is, during recruitment, no one is allowed to say this formally, so how are the girls going through TRULY supposed to know? Having experienced this firsthand, I felt SO cheated. I would not have accepted my bid if I had known that getting shut down was even a remote possibility.

I understand that if girls are told a chapter is in trouble during recruitment, it will hurt their numbers greatly, and not many girls ( although there still may be some who won't care) will choose to accept bids from chapters in trouble. My response to this is- okay, so you're going to screw over these girls? I definitely got screwed over, just so my former chapter could "try to get back on their feet." Basically, my new member class was "used" to try to salvage what was left of the chapter. That is SO unfair for new members to be introduced into a failing chapter and having the burden of "fixing" it. When our charter was revoked, Nationals indeed told us that they had hoped our new member class would fix things. Oh, how nice, thank you for making my freshman year hell! It really was hell for me. I was absolutely humiliated when the chapter was pulled, seeing all my other friends getting initiated into their sororities. It is not something that new members take lightly and I feel for these former tri delt new members.

I was lucky enough to find another organization that accepted me despite my past. But it was not easy. And at first, it was a bit awkward having to fit in, being known as "the girl who WAS an XYZ, but is NOW an ABC." There is also awkwardness with bigs: my former big did NOT want me to be in another sorority and ceased all communication with me. Now, I am over it, but at the beginning, it sucked.

Just wanted to give this perspective. I really wish Nationals of my original sorority had not used my new member class like that. I really really think girls should be informed of any probation a chapter is on, because at least at my school, no one was allowed to discuss it during recruitment, and the sorority in question kept it extremely hush-hush. It was also not posted on our school's greek life website, as I understand it is posted on some school's websites. Once I was in the sorority, yes I knew they were on probation (a little too little too late), however every member told us it was "no big deal" and "nothing would happen"... yet we were shut down.

I am interested to see what you all think, or if anyone has been in similar circumstances. Sorry for the long post.

Deltagrandma, thank you for sharing that story. What a really terrible thing to do to you and the other young women about to be initiated. I am glad that it worked out for you in the end. I can't imagine what you went through.

It is a very difficult situation. I have no answers.

I am sorry you had this experience. While I certainly don't know the particulars for your chapter, I do know that some chapters are shut down for behaviour THAT term so they may not have even been on some sort of status prior to that event. Each case is different and should be considered independent of others.

WOW. What would have happened if the phone would have been busy and the rep from nationals wouldn't have gotten the call in time? You all would have been initiated, and that would REALLY have sucked! (Although I would hope in such circumstances the sorority would release women and let them pledge elsewhere.)

My chapter was closed halfway through a pledge period. The night the girls accepted their bids, the active sisters were very honest with them and told them they were on probation for numbers and could possibly close, and they would release them if that was something they didn't want to take on. They all decided to stay. I'm really proud of my sisters for doing that.

The kind of probation is a big factor. If a chapter's on probation for risk management issues, I believe rushees should definitely know that, just for their own safety's sake. deltagrandma's situation, though, sounds like it was more numbers based. The fact is, if you're hoping a pledge class will "save" the chapter, you might as well hope for Santa Claus. Chapters very rarely get turned around during formal rush, they get turned around the other 360 days of the year.

97.5% of the time that a chapter is on probation, they do not close. So if a chapter is on probation and they are committed to turning things around (particularly if it's risk management, scholarship or finance related), telling everybody in advance could really just kill the chapter for no reason. When it's for numbers, I don't think people are ever surprised. It's clear that they have 8 or 12 members when the other chapters on their campus have 100.

https://www.wthr.com/article/iu-soro...eep-house-open

on going saga .. Judge gave a reprieve on the eviction until a hearing on 4/13.

While not a complete closure, the Kappa chapter of Delta Delta Delta at the University of Nebraska - Lincoln has terminated a group of members. I believe campus total is somewhere around 170 this semester but am unsure of how many members the Kappa chapter had.

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/news/c...2e8fe7daa.html

I started reading this article and was ready to say "ugh, I hate membership reviews like this, they just tear a chapter and friendships apart."

But if the rest of the article is to be believed, it sounds as though this chapter was torn apart to begin with.

The comments on these stories always amaze me, especially the ones from parents and alumnae who think they are entitled to a full explanation of all the gory details about what happened. In addition, I am also astonished at the commenters who believe that the girls don't know why they got kicked out, and that the girls were angels who spent their free time drinking lemonade on the front porch swing.

I am not a DDD. I have never been involved in a chapter review, and only once in the termination of a chapter sister. I never served on my chapter's Standards committee. Yet, I fully get that chapter business is chapter business and no one outside of the chapter is owed an explanation. Any information that would be shared would only serve to create more problems for the chapter. I also have no doubt that communication is clear and strong when it comes to all disciplinary issues. No one gets blind-sided with a termination.

Thank you so much, Comrades True, for expressing my thoughts exactly! No one has been blindsided by this.

As a member of Tri Delta, your remarks are well stated and incredibly spot on. And you're right - the young women in the chapter know [I]exactly[I] why their national took this step.