Well for one our school is a lot larger than yours.... grads/under-grads = 73,000 ish. If you have 11 chapters and each pulls in roughly 40-50 girls (if thats quota), then with 12 chapters quota would be around 35-45... I don't see that as a significant impact. Finally, if your chapter is strong in sisterhood and has those numbers, who cares what the other houses do? Just don't get caught in the numbers game.... quality before quantity.... if you think of a PNM in terms of how many girls that would give you before what you think the PNM will give to the chapter you got the wrong focus.

Yes, it does depend on the amount of women that go through formal recruitment. It also depends on how many COB's you give out throughout the semester to get to total. That's the only way I can see anyone going above the quota set for formal recruitment.

IMHO, Angels&Arrows has summed up the entire Greek system in this paragraph. I was also (over-)involved with Panhel, and it's darn near impossible for a small group to go big, unless they recolonize or (and this has happened!) pledge a field hockey team or the sort!

No matter how hard Panhel tries to help the smaller chapters, it can't be done at the expense of your own - and once the pnm gets the idea that ABC is desirable and XYZ isn't, it's awfully hard to change her mind.

The only way I've seen it work is when, after formal rush, a member of ABC (who is at quota/total) has a friend who didn't rush and is panhellencally minded enough to say to her non-Greek friend, "You know, we're not taking anyone else this year - but why don't you check out XYZ or PQR? The important thing is being a Greek, especially with Greek Week around the corner!" This is how TRUE Panhellenic Recruitment is supposed to work, isn't it?

honeychile

Heck, I've done this even when my group WASN'T at total. I know some women who are great, but would not be a good fit for my group. Why talk someone into pledging your org who is going to hate it, just so you can get the numbers? It would be nice if everyone could stop focusing on the almighty quota/total and concentrate on trying to give the rushees the best Greek experience.

OK, here's a question for those of you who really know their green books. If chapters close or are added to a campus, how does that affect release numbers for the remaining groups?

I don't know anything about a green book, but in the middle of 2001 recruitment at the University of South Carolina, the Theta chapter decided to relinquish its charter. I'm not sure about the other groups, but the Kappas were allowed to invite back a number larger than was previously set. What a mess--we had to basically go through the whole list to see who was eligible to be invited back!

Who knows what the numbers would have been had the Theta chapter relinquished its charter before recruitment. What a sad day when any chapter closes!

Also, I think USC is considering adding another sorority in 2004. Not everyone is at total or at quota--I don't like the idea. This new group might be at a disadvantage since most of the groups will be in a house by then. I could go on and on about the Greek Life office at USC, but I better not!

AFAIK,

If you look at how release figures are calculated, you can see that they are based on number of PNMs, number of chapters, and percent return rates in previous years.

So, if one more or one fewer chapter is participating in recruitment, the new number of chapters is used in place of the old one.

Of course, in the event of a PHC colonization, the new colony generally does not participate in recruitment its first year (except an informational during the first round), so it would not affect things in that case.

Has anyone else heard of a "sophomore bonus"? We used to have it and are getting rid of it for next year. I rushed as a sophomore but didn't know about it until after, but basically you can have freshmen girls up to quota, and then a certain number of additional sophomores if you want. It has to do with the fact that we have an old Southern system and 99% of girls are placed as freshmen.

OUCH. My head hurts after reading this thread...

I hear ya on that one!!
Nichole

i'm going to attempt to reply to this...

when you hand in your bid-list it is ranked, that way if a girl is "with-in" quota she will get a bid, esp. if she puts them first on her list. the way a girl gets her second choice is if she was "with-in" quota of the second group on her list and not the first one.

so if i say my first choice is ABC
my second choice is XYZ

and i am in quota of XYZ and not ABC i will get XYZ...this is esp. if everyone who is in ABC's quota but ABC first (therefor not giving those out of quota a chance to move up a spot).

does this make sense at all??
i hope so
greek love
violets

From an IFC / Guy point of View, Jeeze What a Cluster F!:(

This is like Abbot and Costello, Whos on first! :eek:

That's exactly how it can be!!!

It all comes to who the PNM puts first and whether the GLO ranks her on their first list. If she isn't on their first list, she can still get a bid if not all the girls on the first bid list put then first.

Say, PNM-1 wants ABC first and XYZ second. PNM-2 wants RST first and ABC second. If ABC put PNM-2 on their first list but she gets a bid to RST (her first choice, then ABC has a place for PNM-1 if she's ranked high enough on their second list. If not, then PNM-1 receives a bid from XYZ depending where she is on their list.

At universities where he PNMs are told to rank all the houses whether they went to pref or not, it's possible to get a bid from someone you actually cut to go somewhere else!

Stand firm to your view and make your case to panhellenic. And, if bringing on another group is inevitable, it is ESSENTIAL that your chapter uses this year to continue making improvements and have a chance to get as STRONG as you can before the new group arrives! In a system like yours, only the "strong" survive....it is Darwin at work here because, unfortunately, in Texas, memories are LONG when it comes to a chapter's reputation...even if the chapter is a new and improved version of what it once was.

On a side note... check out the Aggie yearbook...are you aware of how many groups on your campus have been "lost" to this tactic??! It is frightening! And it will keep happening for as long as this pattern continues.

In the meantime, COB your rear ends off so that you are prepared and comptetive in size and look by the time the new group is rushing! It is your very best chance for survival and chapter health!

Hey all-

I have a few questions; some of them may be basic, but bear with me...its the first time my sorority is particiapting in formal rush. I'm the Panhel delegate, so everyone keeps comming to me with questions- and I left my Green Book at school!!!

Ok, when we make a 1st choice bid list, do we fill the list until quota? IE- quota is 20. Do we list 20 girls, in alphabetical order, then place the other girls on the second bid list?

How many girls can we put on the second bid list? Is there a limit?

As a side note, most of the Panhellenic is NOT being supportive. They kinda look at us like "You don't know this?!". So asking them is not going to be very helpful.
Thanks for everything!!!

On your 1st bid list you list your top 20 (# for quota) in alpha order. The 2nd bid list is all of the rest of the women who attended your pref party in preferrential order.

As NutBrnHair says the first bid list is always in alphabetical order and is the number of woman that is quota (in your example 20).

On your second bid list you may put any number of women to whom you would be willing to extend a bid. This list is in the order you would like to bid the women. It should contain the remainder of the women who attended your preference party that didn't make it onto the first bid list but may also contain women who didn't attend your preference.

By adding in the women who didn't attend your preference that makes the list a good starting point for offering snap bids.

Question: Hypothetically, then, if 200 women go through recruitment, and quota is 20, you can list the top 20 in your A list (alphabetically), then list the other 180 if you'd like?

This caused a bit of a donnybrook at one bid matching I attended.

To answer honey's question: yes, you can.

A note on the other issue...nothing in the Green Book says your first bid list has to be in alphabetical order. Most groups have this system so that nobody except those preparing the bid list (usually a very small number of people) know exactly where each girl ranked.

/splitting hairs

DolphinChicaDDD,

Best wishes with recruitment! When it comes to creating your first and second lists, you will also want to be sure you follow Tri Delta's legacy policy (if any legacies attended your pref parties). That policy is stated on the HQ web site, in the recruitment section, and it could affect the arrangement of the second list. Your alumna advisers and regional / national representatives / officers should be able to assist you, of course.

Again, all the best!

I am not sure if this was asked earlier....are snap bids and quota additions the same things?? If not, explain the difference. We never used to follow the rules on that correctly at my school....it has changed since...but being the old rush chair I am still confused!!

No, they are not the same thing.

Quota additions are done immediately after computerized bid matching. If a woman did not match, she can be hand-added to a chapter's bid list. This is done by the people (Greek Life?) doing the matching, and nobody knows who the quota additions are outside that room.

Snap bids come next. Chapters that did not make quota have the option of picking up women who did not match. Generally, the Rho Chi calls the woman and tells her she did not match with a group on her bid card, but XYZ would like to extend her a bid, and she has the option of accepting. You can receive a snap bid from more than one group, in which case your Rho Chi calls and gives you your options.

So basically, if you are a quota addition, you will never know, but if you are a snap bid, you will.

Ok...next question. I understand that quota additions and snap bids are meant for groups under quota...but what is the 5% rule. Is that only for quota additions? Or can people at quota snap bid also??

I believe that you are right. Even if the chapter is under total, if they meet quota, they cannot snap bid. That is what COB is for.

Quota addition is the addition of women who did not match to bid lists of chapters who have made quota. The 5% rule is that the number of quota additions is not to exceed 5% of quota. So if quota is 20, any chapter should not have quota addition of more than 1. If quota is 35 than quota additons should not exceed 2 (1.75 rounded up).

So ... say quota is 20 and a women attended preference at chapters AA and BB ( 2 being the max she could attend). If both AA and BB make quota of 20 before the woman gets a bid, she doesn't match and would not get a bid. She can, if she meets certain qualifications, be a candidate for quota addition. She would then be added to the bid list of either chapter AA or chapter BB depending on which chapter is the smaller and that chapter would then have 21 new members.

Snap bids are to assist chapters which didn't make quota to
reach quota. Quota addition only applys to chapters who make quota. A chapter can snap bid to quota even if that would put the chapter over total. A chapter that has reached quota can not issue snap bids. The chapter can only issue COB bids if they are under total.

(Edited for spelling)

Thank you so much!! BTW I have three friends from High School that were Alpha Xi Delta's at Ohio University!!

Question: With the new NPC rules, is quota plus still available? Or would it only be an option if all chapters had made quota. I'm just curious.

Wow, after reading this either my school's rules are much simpler or i dont understand them.
We have both quota and total, and we have informal recruitment in the fall, and formal in the winter. The way we do it is total is set at 52, when sororities go through fall rush they can only give out as many bids as they have spots before they reach total.
During spring recruitment we have quota which is set right before preference night and is the same for everyone. We have quota plus one which is where if, say quota was 20, your top twenty girls all put you down as their first choice, than you get the next girl on your list that put you down first. I have never heard of that actually happening on my campus. However, i do know that after spring recruitment we can not cob to reach total, you can only reach quota which is hard for smaller chapters who, even if they almost or do reach quota, could still afford to take more girls on.

Also jumping to an earlier part of this message, i agree panhell just kinda watches some chapters die and doesn't do much to help them, except encourage girls not to suicide them. But this doesn't work either. It was heartbreaking to see girls from XYZ get excited becausee they had a pledge class of two, just to hear the girls had dropped their bids when they found out who they got them from.

I think someone on your campus needs to read the green book. Under Unanimous Agreements, Continuous Open Bidding section, page 97 of the 13th edition (I haven't received the latest edition yet) I quote: "Each NPC fraternity chapter has the right to COB to reach Quota or its total allowable chapter size during the regular school year.........The purpose of Continuous Open Bidding is to enable those chapters which did not pledge Quota, or pledged Quota but did not reach Total, to take additional new members immediately following the designated formal recruitment period."

Someone who knows about this should definitely let me know if I'm wrong, but I think I understand this correctly.

A little more info about quota additions. Without the benefit of having a Green Book on hand, this is my understanding. A PNM who attends every Pref party will be guaranteed a bid from at least one of these houses even if she doesn't match. That is unless she suicides, then all bets are off.

So on our campus there are 3 Pref parties. A PNM must be invited to and attend three different houses. She must then list all three in some order on her Pref Card for this guarantee to kick in.

Quick Question
 

Let us say that a chapter is "small" and does not make quote during formal rush.. They are also below total. but if this house would be over total if they took quote, so (to make up numbers) say total is 50, the chapter is at 25, so they need 25 to make total, but quote is say 30.

So, by my understanding this house can take 30 during formal rush and in this situation go 10 over total.

Again, by my understanding, a chapter can take total plus acertain percentage over quota. But since this chapter did not make quota and is still below total they should be allowed to cob up to quota.

My question is: if during formal rush chapters may take quota plus, can a chapter which cob's to get quota take quota plus.

So, this chapter can COB and get the 30 new members(to fill the new member class), but can they take 30 plus? Like other chapters would have been able to do if they got a full pledge class during formal?

No Tresa, you have it exactly right.

Chapters CAN COB AT ANY TIME (EXCEPT SUMMER) IF THEY ARE NOT AT CAMPUS TOTAL. That's why it's called continuous.

If for any reason your school is forbidding you to do this, contact your regional NPC rep ASAP.

Re: Quick Question
 

Quota and total are two different things.

Quota only refers to the maximum amount of women chapters can give bids to during a structured recruitment process.

Total is the maximum chapter size at a particular school.

So, Yes, a chapter can exceed Total during the structured recruitment process by taking quota or quota plus.

But where COR is concerned, since each chapter does it on its own, there is usually no set quota limit. Each chapter can give as many bids as they want through COR until they reach Total at their campus. There is no "quota plus" for COR.*

So at Dude U, there are four chapters.
Total is 50.
Quota through structured recruitment is 15.

Chapter ABC had 40 members before recruitment and made quota, thereby putting them above total (50) with 55 members. They are not eligible for COR because they are now above total.

Chapter DEF had 35 members before recruitment and gave bids to 15 girls, thereby bringing their chapter up to 50 girls. They are not eligible for COR because they are now just at total.

Chapter GHI had 25 members before recruitment and pledged quota of 15. They are eligible to COR up to 10 women to fill the spots to bring them up to total.

Chapter JKL had 10 members before recruitment and pledged 10 women. They are are eligible to COR 30 women if they want, to bring them up to total.

Does that help?

* This is my understanding through my experiences as both an undergrad and an adviser at two different schools with a fall formal recruitment process.

There is also the following case

chapter XYZ has 40 members prior to recruitment and receives 12 new members from formal recruitment. This puts them over total at 52 members but (as my sister Tresa pointed out) because a chapter is always allowed to pledge to quota at anytime during the school year, this chapter may offer 3 COB bids in order to pledge to quota and would have 55 members.

Important point to note, once they have pledged their 15 new members (12 + 3) and are at quota and over total, XYZ may not pledge any more new members until they fall back below the chapter total. So, if 2 of the new members quit they may not be replaced. But if some combination of 6 or more members quit or leave school or graduate then XYZ may offer COB bids up to total (50 in this case) only.

Thanks AZ-Alpha Xi, I knew I was missing a scenario in there!

I think that in JKL's scenario, if they did happen to COR an additional 30 women to bring them up to total (50), it wouldn't be considered "quota plus 25" (10 original bids + 5 COR bids to = quota of 15 plus 25 women to bring them up to total of 50). It's my understanding quota is usually only used/referred to during the structured recruitment process (besides being able to COR up to quota, even if a chapter is at or above total).

Re: Re: Quick Question
 

[/B][/QUOTE] There is no "quota plus" for COR.*
[/B][/QUOTE]

This is the answer that i was looking for. I just find it interesting, and something that i never understood because i think that it favors the chapters that are good at formal recruitment.

I think (and if i could rule the world) that if a sorority is allowed to take quota plus during formal/structured rush, then if that sorority needs to COR to reach quota then they should be allowed to take quota plus during COR. I think that each sorority should be allowed to be successful at what they are best at.

I am just asking cause i know at my school some sororities could be over total(90) through making quota and then getting quota plus, so they were at say 100 to 110 while at least 2 other houses were below 50. I know whinning has no real use, but it seems that if a sorority can take quota plus during formal/structured rush then to help out the "small" sororities they should be able to do what the larger chapters do during COR.

Just my opinion, but thanks for the 411,

Re: Re: Re: Quick Question
 

but the thing is, a quota doesn't EXIST during COR. The only time quota exists is formal rush.

I think some schools have said that you can COR up to "average chapter size" rather than total on campus, but don't quote me on that.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Quick Question
 

That's true because at some schools the average chapter size is WAY above Total. In order for the sororities to maintain some sort of parity, it would be only fair to allow the smaller chapters to get up to average chapter size. I know that this is done many times during colonization too.

If chapter average is way above total, then panhellenic should seiously consider either raising total, or bringing in a new chapter.

I was wondereing, in order to encourage women to pledge the smaller chapter(s) on a campus with a reputation which doesn't match reality, could the small chapter(s) be allowed to recruit freshmen in the fall semester, and much larger chapters be required to wait until spring semester to recruit. It would encourage some women to at lteast investigate the smaller chapter(s) because they could start their sorority experience sooner. But if they were determined to join the larger chapters, they would have to wait a semester.

Just thinking a little bit outside the box.