Re: Re: Re: Re: lovelyivy
 

Actually, what's sad is you have no damn clue at all what I meant.Please take reading comprehension classes.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lovelyivy
 

Actually, I know exactly what you meant. Who do you think you are to be so rude to me when all I wrote was three little words?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: lovelyivy
 

Sorry. I have a smart "mouth".

Re: Re: Re: lovelyivy
 

I didn't say you hated whites either. I forgot to put in a comma and that seemed to cause some confusion. Either way, I edited my comment to reflect that you didn't hate whites. And what people have thrown that comment about you having no white friends in? It seems you have already made assumptions. Discussions should not involve "preemptive strikes". The fact that you are throwing that in is to justify that you don't have a prejudice, and you're comments are not biased.

You listened to someone but did you hear them out? No you chose to find what they said as insignificant. Yes, you have the freedom to do this but don't be surprised if, later on, others act in the same manner towards you.

And key fact to note: I never said lynchings all occured in the South dear [I decided to throw the "dear" in there since you called me "hun" :) ].

Second key fact to note: Insults accomplish nothing. On top of that, a lot of what you write is written with a haughty attitude which people aren't appreciative of. You are free to express your opinion but telling someone to take reading comprehension classes is wrong and you have no right to do that. If I told you to take reading comprehension classes because you assumed I was saying lynchings only took place in the South, would that accomplish anything for me? No. We all have opinions and voices - generally insults prevent people from understanding each other. Let's all try and keep things civil.

-Rudey

NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE...

i just found the course this discussion took a bit interesting, and i recieved an e-mail today along the same lines. It's a long one so please read (when u have time) and think about it. Comment if you wish.


White Frights

The article below, taken from the British Guardain, is excerpted from Michael Moore's new book, "Stupid White Men"

Michael Moore writes....

I don't know what it is, but every time I see a white guy walking
towards me, I tense up. My heart starts racing, and I immediately
begin to look for an escape route and a means to defend myself. I kick myself for even being in this part of town after dark. Didn't I
notice the suspicious gangs of white people lurking on every street corner, drinking Starbucks and wearing their gang colours of Gap turquoise or J Crew mauve? What an idiot!

Now the white person is coming closer, closer - and then - whew! He walks by without harming me, and I breathe a sigh of relief.

White people scare the crap out of me. This may be hard for you to understand - considering that I am white - but then again, my colour gives me a certain insight. For instance, I find myself pretty scary a lot of the time, so I know what I'm talking about. You can take my word for it... If you find yourself suddenly surrounded by white people, you better watch out. Anything can happen. As white people, we've been lulled into thinking it's safe to be around other white people. We've been taught since birth that it's the people of that other colour we need to fear. They're the ones who'll slit your throat!

Yet as I look back on my life, a strange but unmistakable pattern
seems to emerge. Every person who has ever harmed me in my lifetime - the boss who fired me, the teacher who flunked me, the principal who punished me, the kid who hit me in the eye with a rock, the executive who didn't renew TV Nation, the guy who was stalking me for three years, the accountant who double-paid my taxes, the drunk who smashed into me, the burglar who stole my stereo, the contractor who overcharged me, the girlfriend who left me, the next girlfriend who left even sooner, the person in the office who stole cheques from my chequebook and wrote them out to himself for a total of $16,000 - every one of these individuals has been a white person. Coincidence? I think not.

I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord, never had a meeting at a Hollywood studio with a black executive in charge, never had a black person deny my child the college of her choice, never been puked on by a black teenager at a Mötley Crüe concert, never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, and I've never heard a black person say, "We're going to eliminate 10,000 jobs here - have a nice day!"

I don't think that I'm the only white guy who can make these claims. Every mean word, every cruel act, every bit of pain and suffering in my life has had a Caucasian face attached to it.

So, um, why is it exactly that I should be afraid of black people?

I look around at the world I live in - and, I hate to tell tales out
of school, but it's not the African-Americans who have made this
planet such a pitiful, scary place. Recently, a headline on the front of the Science section of the New York Times asked Who Built The H-Bomb? The article went on to discuss a dispute between the men who claim credit for making the first bomb. Frankly, I could have cared less - because I already know the only pertinent answer: "It was a white guy!" No black guy ever built or used a bomb designed to wipe out hordes of innocent people, whether in Oklahoma City, Columbine or Hiroshima. No, friends, it's always the white guy. Let's go to the tote board:

* Who gave us the black plague? A white guy.

* Who invented PBC, PVC, PBB, and a host of chemicals that are
killing us? White guys.

* Who has started every war America has been in? White men.

* Who invented the punchcard ballot? A white man.

* Whose idea was it to pollute the world with the internal combustion engine? Whitey, that's who.

* The Holocaust? That guy really gave white people a bad name.

* The genocide of Native Americans? White man.

* Slavery? Whitey!

* US companies laid off more than 700,000 people in 2001. Who ordered the lay-offs? White CEOs.

You name the problem, the disease, the human suffering, or the abject misery visited upon millions, and I'll bet you 10 bucks I can put a white face on it faster than you can name the members of 'NSync.

And yet, when I turn on the news each night, what do I see again and again? Black men alleged to be killing, raping, mugging, stabbing, gangbanging, looting, rioting, selling drugs, pimping, ho-ing, having too many babies, fatherless, motherless, Godless, penniless. "The suspect is described as a black male... the suspect is described as a black male... THE SUSPECT IS DESCRIBED AS A BLACK MALE..." No matter what city I'm in, the news is always the same, the suspect always the same unidentified black male. I'm in Atlanta tonight, and I swear the
police sketch of the black male suspect on TV looks just like the
black male suspect I saw on the news last night in Denver and the night before in LA. In every sketch he's frowning, he's menacing - and he's wearing the same knit cap! Is it possible that it's the same black guy committing every crime in America?

I believe we've become so used to this image of the black man as
predator that we are forever ruined by this brainwashing. In my first film, Roger & Me, a white woman on social security clubs a rabbit to death so that she can sell him as "meat" instead of as a pet. I wish I had a nickel for every time in the past 10 years that someone has come up to me and told me how "horrified" they were when they saw that "poor little cute bunny" bonked on the head. The scene, they say, made them physically sick. The Motion Picture Association of America gave Roger & Me an R [18] rating in response to that rabbit killing. Teachers write to me and say they have to edit that part out of the film, if they want to show it to their students.

But less than two minutes after the bunny lady does her deed, I
included footage of a scene in which police in Flint, Michigan, shot
a black man who was wearing a Superman cape and holding a plastic toy gun. Not once - not ever - has anyone said to me, "I can't believe you showed a black man being shot in your movie! How horrible! How disgusting! I couldn't sleep for weeks." After all, he was just a black man, not a cute, cuddly bunny. The ratings board saw absolutely nothing wrong with that scene. Why? Because it's normal, natural. We've become so accustomed to seeing black men killed - in the movies and on the evening news - that we now accept it as standard operating procedure. No big deal! That's what blacks do - kill and die. Ho-hum. Pass the butter.

It's odd that, despite the fact that most crimes are committed by
whites, black faces are usually attached to what we think of
as "crime". Ask any white person who they fear might break into their home or harm them on the street and, if they're honest, they'll admit that the person they have in mind doesn't look much like them. The imaginary criminal in their heads looks like Mookie or Hakim or Kareem, not little freckle-faced Jimmy.

No matter how many times their fellow whites make it clear that the white man is the one to fear, it simply fails to register. Every time you turn on the TV to news of another school shooting, it's always a white kid who's conducting the massacre. Every time they catch a serial killer, it's a crazy white guy. Every time a terrorist blows up a federal building, or a madman gets 400 people to drink Kool-Aid, or a Beach Boys songwriter casts a spell causing half a dozen nymphets to murder "all the piggies" in the Hollywood Hills, you know it's a member of the white race up to his old tricks.

So why don't we run like hell when we see whitey coming toward us? Why don't we ever greet the Caucasian job applicant with, "Gee, uh, I'm sorry, there aren't any positions available right now"? Why aren't we worried sick about our daughters marrying white guys? And why isn't Congress trying to ban the scary and offensive lyrics of Johnny Cash ("I shot a man in Reno/just to watch him die"), the Dixie Chicks ("Earl had to die"), or Bruce Springsteen ("I killed everything in my path/I can't say that I'm sorry for the things that we done").

Why the focus on rap lyrics? Why doesn't the media print lyrics such as the following, and tell the truth? "I sold bottles of sorrow, then chose poems and novels" (Wu-Tang Clan); "People use yo' brain to gain" (Ice Cube); "A poor single mother on welfare... tell me how ya did it" (Tupac Shakur); "I'm trying to change my life, see I don't wanna die a sinner" (Master P).

African-Americans have been on the lowest rung of the economic ladder since the day they were dragged here in chains. Every other immigrant group has been able to advance from the bottom to the higher levels of our society. Even Native Americans, who are among the poorest of the poor, have fewer children living in poverty than African-Americans.

You probably thought things had got better for blacks in this
country. After all, considering the advances we've made eliminating racism in our society, one would think our black citizens might have seen their standard of living rise. A survey published in the Washington Post in July 2001 showed that 40%-60% of white people thought the average black person had it as good or better than the average white person.

Think again. According to a study conducted by the economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway and David C Clingaman, the average income for a black American is 61% less per year than the average white income. That is the same percentage difference as it was in 1880. Not a damned thing has changed in more than 120 years.

Want more proof? Consider the following:

* Black heart attack patients are far less likely than whites to
undergo cardiac catheterisation, regardless of the race of their
doctors.

* Whites are five times more likely than blacks to receive emergency clot-busting treatment after suffering a stroke.

* Black women are four times more likely than white women to die while giving birth.

* Black levels of unemployment have been roughly twice those of
whites since 1954.

So how have we white people been able to get away with this?
Caucasian ingenuity! You see, we used to be real dumb. Like idiots, we wore our racism on our sleeve. We did really obvious things, like putting up signs on rest-room doors that said WHITES ONLY. We made black people sit at the back of the bus. We prevented them from attending our schools or living in our neighbourhoods. They got the crappiest jobs those advertised for NEGROES ONLY), and we made it clear that, if you weren't white, you were going to be paid a lower wage.

Well, this overt, over-the-top segregation got us into a heap of
trouble. A bunch of uppity lawyers went to court. They pointed out that the 14th Amendment doesn't allow for anyone to be treated differently because of their race. Eventually, after a long
procession of court losses, demonstrations and riots, we got the
message: if you're going to be a successful racist, better find a way to do it with a smile on your face.

We even got magnanimous enough to say, "Sure, you can live here in our neighbourhood; your kids can go to our kids' school. Why the hell not? We were just leaving, anyway." We smiled, gave black America a pat on the back - and then ran like the devil to the suburbs.

At work, we whites still get the plum jobs, double the pay, and a
seat in the front of the bus to happiness and success. We've rigged the system from birth, guaranteeing that black people will go to the worst schools, thus preventing them from admission to the best colleges, and paving their way to a fulfilling life making our caffe lattes, servicing our BMWs, and picking up our trash. Oh, sure, a few slip by - but they pay an extra tariff for the privilege: the black doctor driving his BMW gets pulled over continually by the cops; the black Broadway actress can't get a cab after the standing ovation; the black broker is the first to be laid off because of "seniority".

We whites really deserve some kind of genius award for this. We talk the talk of inclusion, we celebrate the birthday of Dr King, we frown upon racist jokes. We never fail to drop a mention of "my friend - he's black..." We make sure we put our lone black employee up at the front reception desk so we can say, "See - we don't discriminate. We hire black people."

Yes, we are a very crafty, cagey race - and damn if we haven't got away with it!

I wonder how long we will have to live with the legacy of slavery.
That's right. I brought it up. SLAVERY. You can almost hear the
groans of white America whenever you bring up the fact that we still suffer from the impact of the slave system. Well, I'm sorry, but the roots of most of our social ills can be traced straight back to this sick chapter of our history. African-Americans never got a chance to have the same fair start that the rest of us got. Their families were wilfully destroyed, their language and culture and religion stripped from them. Their poverty was institutionalised so that our cotton could get picked, our wars could be fought, our convenience stores could remain open all night. The America we've come to know would never have come to pass if not for the millions of slaves who built it and created its booming economy - and for the millions of their descendants who do the same dirty work for whites today.

It's not as if we're talking ancient Rome here. My grandfather was
born just three years after the Civil War. That's right, my grandfather. My great-uncle was born before the Civil War. And I'm only in my 40s. Sure, people in my family seem to marry late, but the truth remains: I'm just two generations from slave times. That, my friends, is not a "long time ago". In the vast breadth of human history, it was only yesterday. Until we realise that, and accept that we do have a responsibility to correct an immoral act that still has repercussions today, we will never remove the single greatest stain on the soul of our country.

(c) Michael Moore, 2002.


These are edited extracts from "Stupid White Men," by Michael Moore, published by HarperCollins World

The Answer
 

PM_Mama,

I can answer the original article that you posted as to why...

Let's look at the article. White man married to a black woman, living in a predominately black neighborhood, being "slurred" by a group of black teens......... Honestly, I'm surprised that the police did anything at all because when it comes to predominately black neighborhoods, the police are slow to react to anything that is considered "black on black".

I think if this had been a entirely "white" family and this was happening to them in a white neighborhood, yes, you are right, the police would have arrested those teens in a heartbeat.

But because this is a white guy married to a black women, living in a black neighborhood, I just don't think that law enforcement saw this as a serious matter. When it comes to predominatley black neighborhood, that usually is the case unfortunately. It also makes me wonder WHEN did law enforcement decide to do something....was it before or after this story went public....who knows......

WOW
 

I guess I have been wrong my whole life as a whitey!

I did not grow up around Blacks so had NO preconceived ideas of black and white!

My first Black I met was in college and the only one! He hung in my room with OUR friends as much as we hung in his!

In my second school, I had a lot of black friends in NPCH groups.

We wouold sit in the Grill together along with some of my Fraternity Brothers!

I was a Police Officer for 7 years and met many good and bad blacks! I also met many good and bad whites.

I owned a liguor store for 17 years and had many black customers and was one of the first to have blacks employed in a liquor store in Kansas.

I still ahve Black Freinds and always will along with Black Fraterny Brothers!

Why do you think the Pilgrams came to America as we know it, they were pushed out because of Religious Racisim!

It is sad that I hear that the whites brought the blacks here in the first place! Yes they did but there were blacks in Africa who helped them! Is that in your Black Manual of what really went Down?

If someone is different than me I get a little nervous ( Not Color alone) then why should you get your panties in a bundle!

If you have someone of your so called own race discussing this well gues what, you may have a sh*&^y out look and need to get yourself together!

I am not sayin that it still does not still happen but just do not promigate it by some of the comments!

If you feel so strongly then why do you post on the all white net work here! OH I guess it really is not lily white on here is it!:cool:

Re: WOW
 

...... "America" then became the place to send criminals.......as in a prison/jail....:) It was a punishment to come here, not as something fun and new to explore.

***EDIT****, not EVERY PERSON that was sent to the Americas was because they were a "religious criminal". Most were actual "regular" criminals (theft, murder, etc.). As I stated before to be sent to the Americas was a prison sentence. They same as being sent to Rikers, Alcatraz, etc.

But again, my post isn't to debate this issue, but the article that PM_Mama posted.

Honeykiss, the prisoners were sent from England to Austraial as it was a penil colony!

Yep the pilgrams were considered criminals as because of their religion!

Others came later and the Members of the new colonies later on dumped Tea in the harbor because of taxation!

There has been prejudice and more likely be predjuice for ever in time as we are not all alike! I can work on my tan while the Asians have a different color Hue, and the Blacks have another!

I have dated both and both complained about the color of the skin!

Well, that is all there is you are either, Black, Yellow, Red, or White!

I do not know of any Blue People unless you are DEAD! I have had the privilage of meeting people of all colors sexual affiliatons and religions on this site and I love and have talked to many of them in person!

If lifes hangups are to much then do not join in! It is your decision!


We have one of the Greatest things on this site that I sorryly do not think there will ever be anything like it!

Yes we talk harsh or ask serious questions as many do not know! Ask, not be abusive to anyone!

We who have been around for awhile have seen most of it and try to respond in a matter of decorum and straight forwardness!

It does seem that many HOT REPLYs are from new people on this Site!

We welcome ALL People on site and wish to tell you of our experiences and what we have tried to do to do for the betterment of what we beleive in!!!

Well, I can Say Good Night Gracie!:D :) :cool: :)

^5 at honeykiss1974


Tell it like it is!

Awesome article Honeykiss.

That book is actually worth picking up I should add.

Michael Moore nailed it.

Anyone who has read any post-Reconstruction literature has seen the way this country reacted to the freedom of the slave, and the ways that were invented to circumvent it- lynching, grandfather clauses, Jim Crow, and SHOULD be able to understand at least INTELLECTUALLY that racism is institutionalized, and that's not accidental. Forget slavery, white people invented various ways to reinstitute it legally by another name the minute it was abolished- that's what police forces were FOR in most states.

*Sigh*

I just wish that more WHITE people recognized and acknowledged the problem, and more BLACK people recognized that a. there's hope, b. we have some stuff to deal with on our OWN, and c. there has been progress, not all white folks are evil, even if many are wilfully ignorant.

and TomEarp, I have to tell ya that it doesn't matter whether or not you met a black person growing up, I KNOW that you were exposed to them because that is what the mass media is for.

Birth of A Nation?

Minstrel shows?

Blaxploitation?

All about various ways to publicly degrade blacks, and reinforce public opinions on our "childish" natures.

Where to begin??

First off, neicy81...while I am sure you have good intentions, your arguments are sort of short-sighted and repetitive. You are not trying to hear anyone else because you have already made up your mind. Perhaps if you give thought to each response you can cater your own accordingly. I hear what you are sayig, and based on my own definition of racism, I don't believe that blacks can be racist either. But if you keep posting like you are, these folks are gonna really believe otherwise.

I think that snuggles did a great job of breaking down the disparity between the white definition of racism and the black definition.

Whoever posted that whites are comfortable with taking responsibility for the past...wow. That is a little naive, if you ask me. If that was the case, there might be a little more than a subsection of out history books devoted to the initial ravaging of Indigenous Americans as well as slavery. Whoever said history books would be much shorter might have been away from school for a while.

Racism? Each definition is simply a function of each person's life experiences. ktsnake hit the nail on the head.

I think that it doesn't matter how many times a day/week/month/year, this topic is brought to the surface. Dialogue is ALWAYS healthy, and you never know who is a little more enlightened by these discussions.

As for the girls, hey, this argument shoud be about the parameters of free speech, not racism.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by librasoul22
[B]Where to begin??

First off, neicy81...while I am sure you have good intentions, your arguments are sort of short-sighted and repetitive. You are not trying to hear anyone else because you have already made up your mind. Perhaps if you give thought to each response you can cater your own accordingly. I hear what you are sayig, and based on my own definition of racism, I don't believe that blacks can be racist either. But if you keep posting like you are, these folks are gonna really believe otherwise.



Actually, I did "hear" them. And I gave specific examples to challenge their diatribe.Perhaps, you would care to take a look again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by neicy81
[B]Actually I do see that you responded to most. However, a lot of your responses are hasty and rather sparse in regards to actual information. If you are going to make a statement you should back it up with facts so that your argument will be credible. Just trying to help because you seem to have lost sight of your point due to your frustration at some of the posters. Also, please do not underestimate the reading comprehension of myself or anyone else. It may not be our level of comphension, rather your lack of substantial evidence to back up your arguments that is drawing the ire of others.

As far as the topic goes, I would love to hear an in-depth reason for your mentality. I am not CHALLENGING it, just asking you to elaborate.

Regarding reading comprehension and "lack of substantial evidence", if you go back and read again, that was thrown in because I thought a user was under the assumption that I if I hate people, I would actually kill them. What facts or evidence do I need for that?Secondly, when did I question your comprehension?

Regarding actual facts, I believe I posted many of comments in a general way. For example, the history books and everything wrong with it.I stated general examples but just didn't go into an in depth 2 page long paragraph.

I see where you are coming from. I don't think that person ACTUALLY believed you would kill someone, I am sure they were referring more to the banality of your statement. You did not directly question my comprehension. I was just trying to let you know that I have thoroughly read each post in this thread.

You strike me as someone who has just come across the information that racism, by definition, can not be carried out by an oppressed people, thereby making it difficult for you to formulate an intricate arument to back up your initial claims. Understand that I do agree with you, that is why I am trying to steer you in a direction that might make others more susceptible to what you are trying to say. When you end each post with a rude directive, it makes everything that came before it seem meaningless.

I think that in order to effectively get your point across, a two paragraph post may be necessary. When it comes to a subject of this magnitude, one must choose their words carefully. It is very doubtful that you will change anyone's opinion, or that they will change yours, but you never know how many people may benefit from seeing things from a different perspective. This can only be accomplished through educated reasoning, and this may in fact call for a more verbose post.

NOW, AS FOR MY THOUGHTS ON THE ARTICLE ITSELF AS POSTED BY PM MAMA:

I love how people try to justify their beliefs about "reverse-racism" by selecting ONE instance and capitilizing on it. I find it fascinating that it is actually a headline that black girls hurled "racial slurs" at a white man. Do you know how often this happens on a daily basis to blacks?? Does anyone else find it funny that this item was even newsworthy? I think that THIS is the real issue. For this ONE incident alone, I can name thousands (probably millions) of incidents that occur in the reverse every day (whites hurling racial slurs at blacks). Not saying that blacks do not call whites nasty names on a daily basis (I am sure they do)...but is this scenario really worthy of media attention?
:confused:
Must've been a slow news day!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by librasoul22
[B]

I see where you are coming from. I don't think that person ACTUALLY believed you would kill someone, I am sure they were referring more to the banality of your statement. You did not directly question my comprehension. I was just trying to let you know that I have thoroughly read each post in this thread.

You strike me as someone who has just come across the information that racism, by definition, can not be carried out by an oppressed people, thereby making it difficult for you to formulate an intricate arument to back up your initial claims. Understand that I do agree with you, that is why I am trying to steer you in a direction that might make others more susceptible to what you are trying to say. When you end each post with a rude directive, it makes everything that came before it seem meaningless.

Just come across???I think not. I didn't start reading or wanting to know about my history yesterday.


But since you asked for "facts", here goes.

Getting back to the original argument, folks were screaming racism and I disagreed with that.How have blacks stigmatized whites? In the article, the girls threw racial insults at the white person or persons in the article. Even though it was "wrong", how has that white person felt that history repeated itself or a rebudding remembrance of their oppressed history versus what a black person would feel?

Furthermore....
How have blacks contributed to the genocide of millions of people?
How have blacks benefitted from "black privilege"?
How have blacks made whites victims of police brutality?
How have blacks negatively stereotyped whites in the media?
How have blacks made whites feel like second class citizens?
How have blacks created systems of oppression for whites?

Neicy, since you keep bringing this stuff up and incedents actually are out there or most of these things I fealt like I should respond with examples.

I think these issues that you are giving are not something that is perpetrated by people who are of a certain race... Rather people who have both POWER and HATRED.

Rwanda, Congo, etc... All you have to do is look at some of the middle and southern African countries and tribal warfare. Different tribes trying to completely wipe eachother out (aka genocide).

Not really sure what "white privilige" is so I won't respond because of my complete ignorance on this issue.

Well you probably won't like my example very much BUT this is a perfect example where someone with both POWER and HATE have come into play. South Africa... There has been a massive exodus of whites from South Africa following the end of apartheid. These people fear for their lives and there really is quite a bit of crime there. And yes, there is black on white police brutality.

I watch programs like "Def Comedy Jam" and other black comedy programs on BET, etc. Yes, I see PLENTY of negative stereotypes about white guys. I really doubt white guys came up with these stereotypes. We can't dance, can't jump, talk like we've got a stick up our asses, etc...

Again you PROBABLY won't like my answer (because the bastards probably deserve this treatment) but South Africa after the fall of Apartheid has done EXACTLY these things. I realize that my statement here is very much an oversimplification of a VERY complex issue... However, I do so to state that it isn't a thing that white people do, it's power and hate and/or ignorance that drive this behavior.

The reason I bring this up is to say that as long as we think of ourselves as black, white, asian, whatever and divide ourselves along racial lines there WILL be inequality. As Dr MLK said we should judge people on the quality of their character and not by the color of their skin.

I'll be the first to admit that I absolutely don't think there's a level playing field. I was really truly awakened to this one night in Memphis about 4:30AM when I pulled over for gas right after I drove through downtown heading East. A part of Memphis that I believe is called "East-Central" if you're familiar. Long story short there were a lot of black folks hanging out at this gas station.. There were cops driving around EVERYWHERE... the place looked like a war zone or an occupied territory durng a war. Within about a minute of trying to get gas we had gotten the hell out of dodge. I'd had some Ice (some kind of drug that I'm not really familar with) offered to me and had a group of about 12 guys walking towards my car (as I drove off some of them were actually hanging on the side of my car). That's the only contact I've ever had with the real "ghetto" (I don't think our inner-city really compares here in Oklahoma City).

I feel very sad for these people. They need help. They did not choose this life... They were born into it. Now do I believe that it is white people that keep them there? In a way, yes... Where do people in the suburbs go when they need to buy drugs? The ghetto... They don't give a damn that this is what poisons this society and ruins the lives of so many there. This woman that tried to sell me ice saw my big red SUV at 4:30AM in her part of town and assumed (an example of her prejudices) that I had come to find some drugs and may put food on her plate.

Breaking this cycle is the responsability of society as a whole and I sure as hell don't have the answer to this. It is an entire culture that must be changed for a level playing field.

My entire point here is that I don't necessarily believe that this institution exists because of race (as a whole). It is something that occurs with each individual and his individual ignorance, power and possibly hate. My definition of racism (which I've actually modified since reading this thread) would state that yes... a black person that attacks a white person, brutally beats them, etc...for the color of their skin (like in the LA Riots) is JUST as much a racist as the policemen that beat Rodney King. Each group in each instance possessed both power and enough ignorance and hate to accomplish the deed.

But of course I will admit this is all just a semantical debate and we can't really convince eachother that we're right or wrong.. Just try to understand better where eachother are comeing from.

This discussion pops up every couple of months but I REALLY think this dialogue is some of the most interesting and valuable stuff on GC.

LHT
Kevin

KTSNAKE, a very good point. Until you lived it, then you only hear of it in books or passed down in lore! Say much as the Greeks and Egyptians did to the people that they put in human bondage long before what came about in the Americas!

I rode in a police car by my self during the So Called Riots of the Kansas City Area in the "GHETTO". I had respect for the people trying to live there and they had respect for me! That is respect not just becaus I was the man!

I worked with these peopole to keep some of the killing , robbing, and looting done by their own!

This thread seems to be getting out of hand! We cannot reverse the action that was done in history as that is old news! We can only do what we can do today!

I am getting tired of someone coming on and trying to stir up racism and predjadise, when we as a group are trying to help the other way!

The world has changed and is still changing ergo The Twin Towers!

Whose fault is that the white folks or the not Musilums who beleive in the white Devil?

How about the Jewish people, was that also the white peoplle or a political thing! What about Northern Ireland, is that white people, or is it about polotics of who runs the jobs!

NO< ALL OF THESE MEAN DEATH TO INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!

I do not hate, UNLESS YOU do harm to me or my family or freinds!

I then do not blame it on a Race or Religion but the individual!

Get over your self importance as it is getting underwhelming!:(

BLUTANG - Thanks for printing that Michael Moore article. I've always enjoyed and been enlightened by his social commentary.

As for the original article, it seems to me that it is more the acts of children with too much free time on their hands. It was trespassing and harassment rather than bigotry, racism, or hatred in my opinion. (I'm not sure how intimidating fourteen year old girls can be, but I wasn't there.) Now a death threat from a grown man or anyone should be taken seriously.

I think that the point is that everyone regardless of race wants to be treated with respect and human dignity. Have a great day.

Son of a gun, I didnt know that!

Again I think most have strayed from the topic.

Yes we still have prevalent racism in America (albeit somewaht more covert).

This is true.

However, we continue to miss the big picture. I BELIEVE the poster of the original article was attempting to shed light on "reverse-racism" in the United States. Unfortunatley, ONE article is not nearly substantial enough to do that. Those who believe that "reverse-racism" exists are extremely eager to point to this SINGLE ARTICLE and globalize it to every facet of life. I have read many posts from BOTH sides that say "I can name this one time..." and "I know this one person who says..." Well guess what? That ONE incident and that ONE person hardly prove anything. It only proves that you have allowed one (or even a few) situation(s) to forever shape your perspective about this topic. Globally, it proves nothing.

Again I submit that had the act in the article happend in the reverse (i.e. white girls call out racial slurs to black individual), not only would it not be newsworthy, most Americans would not even bat an eyelash.

However, the question comes up, where did they hear these phrases? While it's true that they may only have harrassed this guy they were yelling phrases that indicate hatred, and if in fact these girls are not guilty of such hatred then they had to have heard the phrases elsewhere (most likely from parents or older children) and so these issues are still relevant. There is inter-racial hatred (on many sides) out there and while that in itself is not a crime it is a crime to act on those feelings in a certain way. Because these acts stem from deep seated feelings and beliefs I don't feel that it is completely effective simply to legislate the issue. Nothing will change until ideas change and everyone has more understanding and tolerance. This happens through education, not legislation. Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree. I think that it is unfortunate that it will take the criminal justice system to teach these girls something that their parents and families should have taught them. They are only fourteen and having a record will definitely adversely affect them for the rest of their lives.

Well, yes, there is racisim and predjudice among all peoples!

It happens! Meen/women, Asian,Black, Red, and White! RomanCatholic, Protestant, Musilum, and etal!

Do not ever tell me there isnt as there is just looking at the killing/maiming of innocent people!
Some try to do for betterment and some do not, which are you??

Am I a whitey or someone that trys to do for the better? You have to decide! If you are that radical then that is your fault not mine or anyone elses on site!

There is nothing I or anyone else can say on this site to sooth you so pound sand and leave out of our little sphere.

If we ALL do not try then nothing will get done!

If they get a record it will be a serious miscarriage of justice. You shouldn't have to carry around that type of burden at that age.

Unfortunately, if they don't have the money for a competent attourney, or the judge doesn't excercise some common sense, they may indeed be scarred for life.

You seem a little irate. I am missing your point, I think (except the last line, which is pretty clear).

It WOULD be an injustice for the girls to have this on their records and to have started a criminal history from this one incident, but welcome to the system. As a crimanl justice major I can tell you that this is precisely how it is carried out everyday.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by neicy81
[B]I just editted this cuz I think I'm a bit retarded and I duno what I was thinkin when I wrote this. Anyway, yeah.

:rolleyes:

You have some issues that I think you should work on in therapy rather than on GC. Really.

PM Mama, if that's supposed to be funny it's not.

:eek:

OMGoodness......

PRAYER WORKS WONDERS!!!!!!

Y'all be killin' me, seriously! :D

PM Mama
 

An hour later and I am still:eek: that you said that.

As I said, I editted that cuz I was bein retarded and not really payin attention to what I writing. I apologize for my retardedness.

There are many holistic healers all over the world. I suggest you try one ASAP.

Congratulations my fellow greek chatters!!!
This HAS to be one the of the most drama-filled days ever in GC history! :eek:

She Apologized!
Let it end at that.
It was bad, but she realized it, took it back, apologized...what more could you ask of her? Let it go.