..
 

Harvard has some national fraternities and Princeton has unrecognized fraternities also.

There are Constitutional questions here.

1. Freedom of Association.

If the school cant stop you from joining the KKK they sure as hell are not going to be able to stop you from joining and off campus fraternity that is operating on private property and isn't breaking any laws.


2. Freedom of Speech.

You can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater but as far as I know it's not illegal to mail rush invitations , hang rush posters on private property, advertise in a local paper or wear letters.

Alfred doesnt have to recognize the greek orgs but they are not going to be able to prevent groups from operating off campus. The groups at Alfred will do fine if they are smart, organized and willing to put in a little work.

Re: Re: ..
 

Because in 2 years the chapter will be gone. What are the alumni going to do on Homecoming? Hang out at their old dorm rooms? If the group continues to operate as a local chapter then they can maintain a house, take pledges and also have an alumni chapter.

Ummmm, well, Max,

The way I read the articles and releases, the university isn't trying to do any of the things you address.

They're simply saying that the Greek System is no longer recognized by the university. In one article I read in Fraternal News (I think it was a NY Times article), it would appear that they're even considering how to deal with a situation where students would continue to live in their houses. They seem to be saying that if a student has spent his/her two required years in university housing, they can live anywhere they want with whomever they want.

Where did you hear that they will ban the wearing of letters? I didn't see that anywhere.

I haven't read anything about the administration trying to limit "association." First of all, that's not even possible. Again, they're just not going to officially recognize any Greek Letter Organization. They can certainly not allow GLO's to use university facilities. That's private property. And, I think they can probably stop the posting of rush posters on university property for the same reason. Granted, that would be hard to enforce, short of simply taking down anything that is posted as soon as it is put up. Of course there is nothing anyone can do about mailing rush literature -- and nowhere do I see any mention of trying that.

Here's my point. None of us like what is going on here, but short of the GLO's continuing to exist "off campus," there's not much we can do about the university's policy.

What will be interesting is to see whether the national organizations will continue to sanction a chapter that is not recognized by the university.

Rhetoric about Constitutional Rights doesn't really add to any solution here. The involved students can either live with the spirit of the new rules, continue to function as a non recognized outside organization, petition to somehow get the Board of Trustees to reverse its decision or go elsewhere to school.

I suspect that winning any kind of potential lawsuit would be pretty tough, because it would appear that the Trustees are well within their rights to run their business (the University) as they see fit. I highly doubt that they would have taken these steps without being on pretty firm legal ground.

Re: Re: Re: ..
 

In 2 years, the alumnae chapter would NOT be gone. An alumnae chapter stays open as long as there are DZ's in the area who want to participate in DZ-related activities. And girls from Alfred University are NOT the only DZ's in the area. I can call National HQ right now and request a list of DZ alumnae living within a 50 mile radius of Alfred University -- and I guarantee you there will be a lot more than just Alfred U. DZ's that show up on the printout that I receive back from HQ.

Like I mentioned in another post, there are many wonderful DZ alumnae chapters that are very strong and have great sisters as members -- and there isn't a collegiate chapter of DZ anywhere near them. In fact, we've got states with thriving, award-winning alumnae chapters that don't have a single DZ collegiate chapter in the whole state! :D

The way I look at it, if you pledge Delta Zeta and really believe in the organization and love what it stands for, then you're not going to leave the sorority and form another group just because your university has decided to no longer recognize Greeks. Instead, you're going to find an alternative way to celebrate your DZ sisterhood -- and that doesn't mean jumping ship and forming a local when the going gets tough. The girls at Alfred U. can form an alumnae chapter or, like dzsaigirl mentioned, a chapter association and still function very well. Also, like dzsaigirl said, they can initiate women who they feel would make dedicated sisters as alumnae initiates into the sorority with National's permission.

dzrose - what madmax means, is in 2 years the chapter will be gone as far as having collegiate members and being part of the collegiate Greek community. Even if all the alums graduate and live there and the alum chapter is flourishing, what fraternity or sorority is going to want to hang out with a bunch of women who are all out of school?

Unless of course, DZ gives permission for them to do alum initiation with hordes o' collegiate members, in which case they might as well leave the collegiate charter there in the first place.

This kind of goes back to my "did you pledge cause of the national or local org" question. I would guess that if they do decide to go local, some girls will stay with DZ and some won't. It all depends who you feel bonded to the most.

Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
 

The DZ chapter at Alfred is not jumping ship. It is the DZ national HQ that is pulling the plug on them.

Let me turn your loving the organization and what it stands for speech around. If your National HQ loves it's members and what they stand for, then why are they pulling the plug on a group of girls that has done nothing wrong?


If the current sisters start a local sorority, can't there still be an alumni chapter of DZ?

It is my understanding that you can be a member of both a local and a national organization. I am a member of a local (at Alfred U.) and several of my sisters are also APO brothers. As long as the other organization is willing to take you given your other letters, theres no reason that they couldnt start a local chapter.

Deltalum.

The posts by KPU1190 and JennfierAKO710, both Alfred students. They both had questions as to the legality of Alfred preventing greeks from living in off campus homes that were owned by the chapters and KPU also mentioned wearing letters.

Max,

OK, I went back and read their posts. What I think I saw were questions regarding speculation about what the university MIGHT do -- not what it says it is going to do.

You can disagree with what is speculated, I suppose, but until the university comes out and says, you can't live there, you can't wear letters, you can't talk to whomever, there really is no issue.

IF the university does what these two think they might, then there could be a problem. At this point, though, I don't see anything in the news releases from the administration or the newspaper coverage which indicate that any of these worries are going to happen. If they do, it's a different issue.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
 

Think about this for a minute... Here you have a group of initiated Delta Zeta women who are no longer allowed to participate as a collegiate sorority chapter on their campus because their school administration has banned Greek Life. Now, let's say that the girls decide to start their own local group. Because it's local, NPC rules and regulations don't apply to it -- which means that alcohol and hazing policies don't apply to it. Which means that the girls have no one above them anymore to enforce the standards that Delta Zeta was founded upon, or to insure that they don't do anything that could cause harm to themselves or others during a local group event.

Delta Zeta Headquarters could be opening itself up to major liability issues -- not to mention potential negative publicity -- if these girls decided to do something that went against NPC, DZ, and/or Alfred University policy and HQ was still backing the girls as Delta Zetas. Do you see what I mean? I'm not saying that the girls WOULD do anything to hurt the organization, but the possibility is definitely there when no rules are in place.

Let's be very, very clear here. Delta Zeta is NOT pulling the plug on the girls at Alfred University. Alfred University administrators are pulling the plug, and unless the decision is overturned then Delta Zeta HQ has no choice but to respect the University's decision. I'm not saying that the University made the right call. Personally, I think the whole thing sucks, and I'm pretty outraged by the decision to remove the Greek system from campus. But, looking at it from a National standpoint instead of a personal one, I can definitely understand why Delta Zeta may close the chapter. I'm sure that National HQ is sick about the whole thing, but, really, what do you want them to do? The DZ girls at Alfred are being unfairly punished by the school, but they are NOT being punished by DZ.

At any rate, the whole alumnae vs. local issue is moot right now because I haven't heard what National is planning to do. I'm only going on what I know from other schools that have forced Greeks, including DZ's, off campus. Santa Clara University is one of them, and although some other groups are still functioning underground, the Delta Zeta chapter is not. The chapter was closed -- only 4 years after installation. :(

Speculating & Getting back to the issue
 

Let me make one thing clear here--this is all sheer speculation. No decision has been made by DZ HQ to "pull the plug" on this chapter...I'm not sure how this got started, other than the assumption that the SCU chapter was closed last year after that school decided to dissolve their Greek system.

Also, someone made the comment that DZ's constitution doesn't allow chapters at schools that do not recognize Greeks...I have not been able to confirm that--but if it is true (and that may be the reason the SCU chapter was closed) then there are sound reasons for that policy, and I really don't think it is necessary to make the assumption that somehow DZ's National council somehow loves this chapter less than any other, or imply that they will leave these young ladies flapping in the breeze without seriously evaluating the situation.

No, it is not their fault--they are victims of circumstance, and I can assure you that DZ is going to do everything to support the existing sisters in every way they can if the decision is made to close the chapter in order to comply with DZ's constitution, or for whatever reason. Again, it's sheer speculation...and probably a little premature to debate...no one knows what will happen until Council meets with the local DZ members, including alumnae & collegiates.

Just for fun, lets' say DZ does decide to close the chapter for insurance reasons or constitutional reasons or whatever. I, for one, am not particularly concerned that these undergraduate alumnae will somehow lose their affinity for DZ by starting a local sorority which continues to function off campus and recruit members. If that is how they choose to use their energies, then so be it. They can just as easily be active DZ alumnae as they can by XYZ local sorority alumnae/collegiates--as long as they do not share DZ privileged information with women who are not initiated. I do not see this as a conflict of the commitment to DZ anymore than I would see initiation into a service or professional sorority that is equally social as a conflict. THis is my personal opinion, though. The difference of course, is that DZ is for life--the local may or may not hold as deep bonds for them, but if they start something wonderful, then they may keep the door open to recolonizing for future students when Alfred comes to their senses. DZ would not be supporting that collegiate group, and as long as the group made sure that there was no appearance that DZ was--then there would be no liability for DZ national.

While the whole DZ question is an interesting debate, I don't think we should lose sight of the original issue of this thread-which is the tragic loss of another Greek system...even though it appears the system had a pretty controversial history, I think this needs to be a real wake up call to us all, to get our acts together and do what we need to do to prevent it happening at other schools. Granted, most Greek systems are much different--academics are usually well about campus averages, for instance...but this is something we all need to be thinking about, and working with our collegiate chapters as well as universities to make sure that Greeks are seen as valuable contributors to college life....we all know that it is, but clearly, we have to work harder to let others know that.

What there are doing at Alfred is BS!

If my Chapter is no longer there at the Pitt! I will not go back there at all!

I am not a school groupy, I am a Fraternity Man who cares about my Fraternity. period!

If they screw my Organization, why would I wnt to give maney to them!

It seems that the LXA Chapter just rechartered so why would they want to do something stupid? We as an International have our own checks and balances to decide about the local situuations.

I have tried to contact the local and find out who to write my concerns! I will keep trying! I suggest everyone do the same!a

Kendra -

APO is a bit of a different story. It is a national co-ed service fraternity, not a social fraternity. Myself as well as several other members of national Greek orgs on here are also A Phi O brothers. Several of our founders were SAE brothers so this kind of dual membership has gone on from the very beginning.

To make a long story short being in a social fraternity or sorority (local or national) and being in APO is no more of a conflict of interest than being, say, a football player and in the ski club.

Just sent this! If get a reply, Will keep you updated!





As a Modertor of greekchat.com, and see many other Greek Threads, I am dismayed for what your University is doing!

While I do not know all of the things that have gone on on your School Campus, it seems that there is a lot of Knee Jerk reaction going on here!

I know that LXA was just newly rechartered and I do not think that they they would jepordize that! We have many checks and balances in place to make sure that our Chapters are living up to the ideals of our International Fraternity!

In Checking your school site, you have many fine Greek Organizations on your campus and we are all interested in the same thing. Getting the same done not only by the Greek Organizations but as the school, getting the students Graduated and with the best grades possible.

I have been a member of Lambda Chi Alpha since 1966 and am still involved with not only my Chapter but my International Fraternity.

I wish I had more information on some of the situations profesesed by you Board Of Directors!

I for one if my School did what you have done, I would never give anymore money for the Endowment Funds!

I would not back anything that the School did or would do.

I am very sorry for what you have done, unless you can prove to me that the Whole Greek System is at fault!

I hope that someone at Your Institution will contact me so that I can put onto a thread that has Memebers from all Greek Organizations all over the World.






Thomas G. Earp
Lambda Chi Zeta # 1
Lambda Chi Alpha
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)
W-913-334-4567
H-913-299-0246
"The Time Is Now, But Naught Without Labor"

Alfred contacts
 

Charles M. Edmondson
President, Alfred University
Carnegie Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
edmondson@alfred.edu

Gerald D. Brody
VP for Student Affairs/Dean of Students
Carnegie Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
brodyj@alfred.edu

Mark Shardlow
Director of Alumni Relations and Annual Giving
Greene Hall
Alfred, NY 14802
shardlow@alfred.edu

Jason Pilarz
Editor, The Fiat Lux
Powell Campus Center
Alfred University
Alfred, NY 14802
fiatlux@alfred.edu

what I meant was
 

okay,
I hate computers........ :(

What I meant to reply with was the list that you see above, which is a list of Alfred University contacts. As for contacting the local chapter of Lambda, there should be some information off the unversity website... www.alfred.edu

As for the prohibiting of wearing letters, I don't think the University has any grounds for that. I can wear anything I want to. Our concern has been that the University will want the Greeks gone completely..... meaning even off campus organizations would cease to exist.
If we own our houses, which most of us do, and the University has no money invested into it, I don't see how they can have any control over it. The problem comes with the cooperation between the town of Alfred and the University. The town has had an ordinance for quite some time that no more Greek letters may be posted any more. If you had letters up, you could leave them, but no more may be posted. This effectively means that any new chapters coming to campus, such as the DZ chapter, even if they had a house, could not post letters. We probably will have to take down our letters regardless of the University's decision. However, this doesn't mean that we won't still try to make a go of it.

I think ultimately we need to see what comes down the line. I am sure the University has not even considered the possibility that we may want to still exist, such has occured on other campuses. This is a suggestion that we got from a trustee member:

"Encourage the current sisters to present a plan to the VP of
Student Affairs that would incorporate the following issues:
1) a request for current sisters living in the house to continue to do so until a time they specify
2) a financial statement of the sisterhood's health and ability to keep the house for the period they define
3) a statement or pledge that they will abide by the University's regulations, signed by each sister
4) identify an organization that they would like to work with to ensure the house will stay in "good hands"
5) a request to archive historical documents and placques through Herrick " (our library)

This sounds to me like they want to phase out the system. These "defined periods of time", would suggest as much. We are working to join with other houses in presenting a united front and come up with a plan.
As for joing with the state organizations, which someone suggested before....I don't know.... none of them are the same. It's a pretty small town, and there isn't much of an option for the locals anyway. I think our best bet right now is because so many of us own our houses. That at least is a starting point.
Any suggestions are more than welcome.....

I just wanted to let all of you know that we are fighting the actions of the University as a Greek system. Those of us still on campus for the summer are wearing letters, sending e-mails and contacting/getting involved as many people as we can. We are also planning all greek meetings! I'm very proud to be an Alfred Greek....we've all pulled together!

For those of you who have read Alfred's press release I wanted to make you aware that the University portrays itself in a very positive light when it came to working with the Greeks. This is not exactly true or how it happened! There was a period of time when we were w/o a Greek Advisor and I would like to know when all the help was offered to us! Furthermore, as a house (AKO) we were told that if we followed the rules and made changes we would be fine...well guess what, that's what we did and where did it get us in the end?--eliminated just like the rest! So I don't see how the University can claim that they helped us.

Furthermore, for those of you who have commeneted on the fact that our Greek system had problems I want to ask you should we be held responsible for the actions taken by fraternities over 20 years ago and should that be hung over our heads? If so then I think those that came before the death of the student at Klan Alpine in 78 should be held responsible as well...this means Gene Bernstein the head of the task force who was Pres. of Klan Alpine (they mention he was Greek but leave out that he was a Klan brother in the releases!).

I also want to point out that Alfred is a small school in WNY...being 10% on our campus I believe is still a significant amount. The press release fails to mention that we still are the largest group on campus and do the most community service. (AKO alone did more community service in a semester than Alpha Phi Omega.)

I could go on and on about how the University has portrayed us but I guess the main point of this message is to tell you when you read the University press release take it w/a grain of salt. It's written to make the University look wonderful and like they helped the "poor" Greek system. When in reality there help was to ignore problems they knew existed and keep sliding them under the rug instead of really punishing houses that were breaking the rules. There solution to problems was to jtst give the House a slap on the hand and send them merrily on their way. In the end we all got, point blank, screwed by the system that was supposedly in place to help us.

Dani
AKO-Hold Your Candle High

I just wanted to clarify that I don't blame Bernstein (who graduated in 69) for the death (I probably shouldn't have singled him out) I'm just saying that if you're going to hold the present Greeks responsible for the death and hold it over our heads, those before for the death should be subjected to the same accusations.

Jennifer,

It's pretty obvious that the university wants the Greek System gone -- whether it is phased out or immediate. I really don't think there is much they can do, however, if all of your activities are off campus. If you remain active, you will have to be very careful about things like alcohol and noise violations and not give the city any grounds to take action against you. You can bet that city and university officials will be cooperating in this venture.

Again, it sounds like there is every possibility that you will be allowed to remain living in your house. It may even be in the university's best interest to keep you there.

If you have a House Corporation, incorporated with the state, that "owns" your house, I would think you could argue that display of your letters should continue to be "grandfathered" as they have been up until now. The House Corp. organization, and thus ownership of the property, is not changing. The university has nothing to do with that. They can't disband that group. They have no control over alums. And, it is the House Corporation, not the chapter, that chooses to display the letters. Even if the house is owned by Nationals, I think that could be true. I'm not a lawyer, though, so I could be wrong.

Having said the above, if you do have to go it alone without a national organization, you all must be absolutely sure that your chapter finances are in order and that liability issues are covered. The locals are used to that. It could be devasting for members and their parents financially in any kind of legal action which would be lost.

I will say again what I alluded to above -- the university most likely hasn't taken these steps without checking with their lawyers for legal precedent. I think any lawsuit would be very expensive and, in the long run, unsucessful. Yours is not the first campus where this has happened. But again, I'm not a lawyer.

Here's the hardest thing I have to say. I don't think that the university will be willing to talk or negotiate its' position. If, by some miracle, they do allow the System to survive, you must clean it up. Dramatically. With no real knowledge except what I've read from these posts, the university releases and the news articles, it appears that some of your chapters may not be worth trying to save. That's tough but necessary. Remember the cliche about the chain only being as strong as its' weakest link. The survivors will have to be models of everything good about the Greek System. Academics, leadership, philanthrophy, etc. Business as usual won't cut it.

Finally, in terms of wearing your letters, if it were me, I would wear them every freakin' day for the rest of my academic career. Just to make a point!

Re: what I meant was
 

Your financial records are none of the school's business. I personally wouldn't give them any of that info.. If they want to know how long you plan on staying in your house, just tell them, "forever".

AU Press Release commentary
 

Hello again all -
I am writing in response to the post by AKOmicron, where she touches on the press release and what was said in it. I would just like to reflect on the portrayal of the university versus the greeks (this feels like an essay).

First off, I'm not sure if I spoke about the " While the board’s action was taken at its meeting late on Friday, the announcement was delayed until today to permit Gerald Brody, vice president of Student Affairs, to notify presidents of fraternities and sororities of the board’s decision. “We wanted to extend that courtesy to our students,” said President Edmondson. " part of the press release, I know it's a technicality, but the Press Release was sent out before the e-mail to the entire AU Campus. And I don't mean by a few minutes or so. GLO presidents were notified, and I speak for my house, around 12:00 noon that day. The Press Release was released at 2:00 PM, and the mass e-mail was sent to AU students at 4:30 PM.

Secondly, I'm not sure how many Trustees actually sit on the board of Trustees, but there are 45 people listed on the website. The address for this is: http://www.alfred.edu/faculty/html/b...f_trustees.cfm

Thirdly, to my knowledge, the Task Force met with 6 Greek Students. I do not feel that 6 Greek Students are a fair representation of the entire Greek System, ESPECIALLY since some of those 6 students were members of the same GLO.

Fourth, " At Alfred University, the Task Force found membership has declined from 45 percent of the student body 40 years ago to 10 percent today. Among entering freshmen last year, only 4 percent expressed an interest in joining a fraternity or sorority, raising questions of their long-term viability, a concern heightened by the fact that fewer than half the members currently live in the chapter houses. " For a school that has 2,500 students, 10% is a decent sized amount of students. For those who might have a little bit of trouble with math (No offense intended towards anyone) that is 250 students. Yes, there was a much higher percentage back 40 years ago. BUT, also, at the same time, there were a LOT fewer organizations at AU. Today there is over 100 organizations on campus, catering to every interest you could possibly imagine. About the part about entering freshman, I don't know how many of you knew that you would be interested in going greek when you were an entering freshman. As for me however, I was a straightedge, deadset, ANTI-GREEK person when I first set foot on this campus. I can guarentee that I too checked the "NO" box on that little questionnaire that went around with my housing packet. As for the "fact that fewer than half the members currently live in the chapter houses" part.....Well, where do I begin? I'll start with DZ, since there seem to be a lot of DZ posts on this thread. As I understand it, the reason that the DZ sisters here have not gotten an official DZ house is that if they did, they would need to have a Housemother and curfews. The housemother part, I have been told in the past, is not possible at the moment, because of the cost to hire someone to live in the house full time. Also, They would not be able to build a house off-campus in a location easily accessible (less than 2 miles) to campus, for two reasons. 1.) The Village of Alfred (town that the school is in) has passed laws quite a while ago that prevent the building or NEW occupation of buildings to be used for Fraternal organizations. GLO's that already have houses are "Grandfathered" in, like DeltAlum posted. Also, there are no houses for sale that could be bought in the area. 2.) Alfred University (back when GLO's were recognized by the university) had a policy stating that any GLO that was created or that was to move into a new house, must, in order to retain recognition from the university, move ON campus into a house that was already existing or that was built for them on a street called Greek Row. This was a provision created because AU thought it had a chance to become Ivy League, and as I have heard, one of the requirements was that greeks were on campus. I am not sure of the validity of that, but either way, they above is a policy maintained by the university.

Fifth, "Additionally, “Greek membership does not reflect the changing campus population in terms of women, minorities or international students, all of which have an important future at Alfred University,” Bernstein said. " If any of you have seen Wednesday's NY Times, the version that had the article AND the picture, I would like to point out that the picture shows 5 members of my Fraternity. Out of the 18 current actives, and I can explain why that number is low in another post, 1 is African American, 1 is Haitian. Just graduated recently in the past 5 years, there have been, I'd say, between 5 and 10 Spanish/Puerto Rican/German exchange students/Arabic. Compared with a total of graduated students in the past 5 years of around 35-40, I think that between 17% and 25% of our population in the past 5 years is not too bad. I can not speak for the rest of the system, but I know that most of the other houses, if not all, had at least one or two "ethnically diverse" people in them. As for the fact that that the number of sorority members hasn't gone up, for the past school year, there was an interest group set up for a new sorority, which would continue through next smester and possibly be a colony next year. I foget the name of the National that was sponsoring them, but I do know that it had gotten off the ground, and there was a decent amount of interest shown in it.

Sixth, "The Task Force also learned that students in Greek houses tend to drink more and more often than their peers at Alfred University " I don't know where they tried to come up with this, but this past semester, there was an absolute minimum of social events hosted by greek houses. During this semester, the amount of alcohol related write-ups in on-campus dormitories was higher than it had been in the recent past. This fact, while I do not have the numbers here, has been determined by the office of Residence Life. The write ups, in general, were for students drinking in their dorm rooms or for being drunk in their dormitories. Do note, however, that the majority of these write ups occured on nights where there were NO greek hosted events held that night.

Seventh, "There are also growing numbers of violations of University policy. This spring, six of the 12 Greek organizations (eight fraternities and four sororities) were under sanction for violations. " While, unfortunately, this is true, the university does not tell the public that there was BASICALLY a witchhunt going on, where students that did go to a greek house and drink and came back intoxicated but were not causing any types of noise violations were told to tell the RA/RD where they were drinking or they would be written up. This happened more than once, not only on nights when a Greek Hosted event took place, BUT even on nights when one hadn't taken place. Very Salem Witchhunt style.

Eighth, "It also hired additional staff to work with the Greek organizations " The only staff I know of is the Assistant Dean of Students, Daryl Conte, whose position was extended in 1992 while there was an Interim Assistant Dean as I understand, to include Greek Organizations specifically.

Ninth, " “The University has repeatedly encouraged fraternities and sororities to set higher academic standards for themselves and to police their own behavior, but overall, they still do not meet our expectations.” " As for this, I would like to say that while the average GPA of Greeks is lower than the schools average, it has been increasing throughtout the past few years. Also, the rate at which matriculation is reached for Greeks is much faster than that of non-greeks. Also, The past two years there have been TREMENDOUS strides towards creating a well run, unified, and PRODUCTIVE Inter-Greek Council (IGC). During this past semester, guidelines for internal Judiciary action for infractions that were not deemed serious were created, and implemented into the IGC constitution, which was fully revised as well. Previous to IGC, there were seperate Greek Councils, Inter-Fraternity Council (IFC), and Panhellenic Council. These two organizations were combined, creating IGC, and since then, the Greek System has been becoming more unified, and actually working together in order to "police their own behavior". It is not like we completely ignored them and conitinued on our way, we were trying to change things.

Tenth, "Furthermore, the task force noted, the University has offered financial assistance to the Greek houses, including establishing a revolving loan fund to help them with repairs to their houses. " It was reported in a Newspaper in a statement by a university administrator, I can't remember who, that the university has spent around $100,000 over the past few years. Where has this money gone? I can speak for my house when I say that we have not seen any of that money, in the form of a loan or otherwise. As for the Revolving Loan Fund, I speak for myself, and I have been here for 4 years now, that this is the FIRST time I ever heard of a Revolving Loan Fund to help with repairs. Was this $100,000 spent on salaries?

While this was not in the Press Release, there has been mention of houses being in rough condition, I can't remember the exact wording, in different news articles. I would like to point out the fact that while the Task Force was meeting, they made appointments to visit some of the Greek houses. Unfortunately, the trustees could not make it to the appointments that they had made, and ALL of the appointments were cancelled. Back in February, Dean Brody, who is mentioned in some articles and in some other posts by AU students, took a quick tour of ZBT Fraternity. Let me note that while ZBT is not a model of the perfect Fraternity house, there are NO structural problems, and NO code violations. Let me also note that every year, the Village of Alfred requires us to have a house inspection, by the Village Code Officer. This Code Officer checks Fire and Safety Systems, Structural issues, and Sanitary issues. If a house does not pass the code inspection, the house is condemned until it is brought up to code. This past year, not one house was condemned. The Code Officer is not employed by the school, he is employed directly by Village, so there is no bias involved.

Ok, I believe I have said everything that I wanted to say for now, so I will wrap this up. Thank you to all of you patient and interested enough to read this entire post.

Joseph A. DeLuca III
Kappa Psi Upsilon
'1190'

Joseph, a most enlightening listing!

It sounds like a whitewash cover up to me!

I think you and the other Houses might get together and notify your Alums and see if they will write on your behaves.

I would have them especially if any donate money to the school point that out and plainly say that the well is dry!

I dont know how A U does homecoming but at most Schools, if the Greeks do not participate, teh parade and attendance is a heck of a lot lower!

I hope that the National Organizations have Balls to try to work this out!

Good Luck!!!!!!!

AU Reunion 2002
 

Hi again to everyone. I'm starting to feel like a regular!

My Fraternity's corporate board president asked me if I could post this message.

We are trying to organize a protest/rally to take place during the University's Reunion weekend. This year, it falls on the weekend of June 8th, in otherwords, in two weeks. He is planning on heavy participation from AU Greek Alumni as well as AU Non-Greek Alumni....Basically anyone here that supports the Greeks.

He is requesting the presence of other Greeks from around the country who are in support of us at this reunion. Generally, at the University sponsored Reunion events, there are around 100-200 alumni that show up. On top of that, there are about another 300-400 Greek Alumni that show up that do not partake in the University scheduled events. Our Corporate Board President has been coordinating efforts with Alumni from other houses here in Alfred to try and make this a success. He is also trying to get media coverage there.

So, to sum it all up, if any of you out there in Cyberspace are in the area and would like to participate, we all (well, the Greeks and their supporters) here in Alfred would be extremely appreciatiive to have you here. If you would like to know more about this, or would like to get in touch with my houses Corporate Board President, please, feel free to email me, and let me know. My email address again is delucaja@alfred.edu

If anyone has any further suggestions, or comments on this, please feel free to reply to this, or if you would rather not post to the site, feel free to email me.

Thank you again, for your continued support. It is appreciated greatly.

Joseph A. DeLuca III
Kappa Psi Upsilon
'1190'

Re: AU Press Release commentary
 

That doesn't sound right, unless it is a brand new policy by DZ nationals, because the DZ house at our school DEFINITELY doesn't have a paid housemother, and I would seriously doubt that they have a curfew. (none of the houses do)

If there is student housing in the area, there is NO way they can prevent multiple members of the same fraternity from living together, any more than they can prevent people with brown eyes or of the same major from living together. In other words, just because I live with 3 of my sisters doesn't make it a "fraternity house" as far as city code is concerned.

I just cant get past the fact that the president of the university stands on a "moral ground" regardign the greeeks at AU, and he was amember of a chapter that killed someone, while he was an undergraduate, an upperclassman, who might have very well been involved in the hazing that resulted in chuck stephens death.

Whats that I smell, fresh bread, no. Pizza? No, not that either. hummmm.... Oh I know, its hyprocracy.

Re: Re: AU Press Release commentary
 

Could be a requirement of the housing corp. Ya dont have to have a house to have a housing corp. In fact, you cant get a house till you have a housing corp set up....

Lifesaver -

I would just like to make a quick clarification. Gene Bernstein was formerly the President of Klan Alpine, another Local Fraternity here in Alfred, not the President of the University. He also served as the Chair of the Task Force that was created to determine the future of the Greek System. Also, he graduated in 1969, 9 years before the death of Chuck, so he can't personally be held responsible for the actions that caused the death of Chuck, although he could have helped change his houses pledge process while he was both an active member and also during the years following his graduation as an alumni.

Joseph A. DeLuca III
Kappa Psi Upsilon
'1190'

be hopeful to everyone who's school no longer recognizes GLOs.. it some ways it can be better. we do not get funding like other campuses do, but we are also able to run our programs the way we choose (such as 6 week new member education processes instead of a regulated time), and we dont' have to give the school a copy of our new member education program! there are obviously ups and downs, but we are prospering even though we are not recogized. we have on campus:

sororities
KDFnas
FSR
AST
AW

fraternities

STG
FKS
OP
SFO
DKF



we all have a pretty big base of members. :) it works! dont' give up.

I'm a Lambda Chi Alpha alum from Alfred, and... I'm still kinda in shock about all this, especially as we just get re-chartered in October. We fought an uphill battle with the university administration for 4 years. They were never supportive, and would find any reason to push us out. Our national fought like hell and they stood behind us, and we got our charter. Now what do we have to show for it? Nadda! :mad: Being in a Greek organization and part of the greek community on campus as a whole was the best part of my college career, so I'm not going to stand by the wayside and watch the whole system fall apart. We (/\XA) started local, and if we have to, I don't see why we can't go back to it. But I'd hate to see us have to break away from International /vice-versa. It's all part of the experience. I've got over 200000 brothers out there and I know every last one of them stands behind me in echoing Dee Snider's infamous words "we're not gonna take it!!" I say f**k the university, they never helped any of us anyway. I'm still wearing my letters, and I sure hope every other active and alum from Alfred does too! Thanks to all the rest of you non-alfredians for all your support, and to those of us caught in the mess, don't give up!

Chris /\XA KS 1371

I just want to extend my best wishes to the greeks at Alfred. I hope that you spend the summer working together with your alumni and inter/nationals (if that applies) in order to resolve this very upsetting situation. Good luck!

This hurts, especially from a major city newspaper. Unfortunately, it appears to be well thought out and researched. This is an editorial -- an opinion -- but still offers comments from both sides.

This kind of thing is difficult to recover from, and is the reason that we must all take a hard look at what we're doing, and the possible consequences so as not to let an administration like Alfred's find itself in the position to be able to make a like decision.

Editorial
Buffalo News
May 28, 2002

No Greeks for Alfred

Take a bunch of kids away from home for the first time, put them in a
fraternity or sorority house, mix in liberal amounts of alcohol and a
cultural erosion of respect for authority, and what you get is an
incubator for bad behavior.

At Alfred University, a campus of 2,400 students located in the
foothills of the Allegheny Mountains, that concoction has led to six
of the 12 Greek organizations on campus being suspended, placed on
probation or losing their affiliation for violations such as hazing
and alcohol abuse. The university understandably has had enough. Last
week it announced it was eliminating the Greek system from campus.
Who can blame it?

The decision came after a special Trustee Task Force concluded that
the school's Greek system had become dysfunctional, and that "the
educational mission of the university and its Greek system were no
longer compatible." The task force was formed after the death of
21-year-old Alfred student Benjamin Klein, who was beaten by two of
his fraternity brothers before he died. The beating didn't lead to
his death, but it was the motivating factor to study the Greek system.

The task force studied 20 comparable colleges, that is, small liberal
arts colleges in the Northeast. Virtually all those schools found
that the Greek system needed dramatic reform, or had already
eliminated it. Virtually all of them suffered the same problems, said
Gene Bernstein, a former head of Alfred's board of trustees and head
of the task force. Among them were exclusion of minorities and
generally bad behavior largely fueled by alcohol.

Not all fraternities or sororities are versions of "Animal House."
Some, particularly at large universities, can provide a sense of
family within a huge academic environment, said Sheldon Steinbach,
vice president and chief counsel at the American Council on
Education, which represents 1,800 two- and four-year colleges.

Still, an increasing number of schools - especially smaller
Northeastern liberal arts schools - have moved to eliminate the Greek
system. Colby, Middlebury and Bowdoin have done so. But even larger
universities, where fraternities are active, have experienced
increasing problems, said Brett Sokolow, president of the National
Center for Higher Education Risk Management.

Fueled by alcohol - public health studies show that members of
fraternities and sororities drink more than non-Greek students -
university officials at campuses across the country have been
struggling to reform the system. In fact, since 1992 Alfred has had
an assistant dean whose primary, if not only, responsibility was to
try and bring the Greek system up to some reasonable standard of
behavior. Clearly, the effort failed.

In the past two years, more than 60 deaths nationwide have been
linked to fraternity or sorority activity, mainly drinking. As Alfred
University President Charles Edmondson pointed out, if that many
deaths had been associated with varsity athletes, the NCAA would be
conducting an investigation. Edmondson called the numbers an epidemic.

Steinbach, of the American Council on Education, says that while the
deaths are intolerable, they are not out of proportion for what you
would expect from a similar sized population.

Perhaps. But we see no overriding reason to put up with the problems
that arise from out-of-control fraternities. And to their credit,
neither do Alfred officials.

Pardon my French, but what assholes.

I doubt if they bothered to ask any of the current Greek students or Greek alumni their position - this reads like they just went by the school's press release and the school's research/contacts (like the ACE VP) and put their own condescending spin on it.

This is masturbation masquerading as journalism.

I sincerely hope every Alfred student's family and every Alfred alumnus who supports the Greek system cancels their subscription as soon as possible.

33,

I understand your frustration, but you've missed the point.

This is an EDITORIAL. You mention assholes and it reminds me of the saying that opinions are like assholes -- everyone has one.

This is the OPINION of the Editorial Board of a major metropolitan newspaper. Who may or may not be assholes. Many are.

The fact is that they went a lot farther to tell both sides of the story than they had to in an editorial forum. They quoted a man who representes four year schools who spoke in favor of GLO's:

"Not all fraternities or sororities are versions of "Animal House."
Some, particularly at large universities, can provide a sense of
family within a huge academic environment, said Sheldon Steinbach,
vice president and chief counsel at the American Council on
Education, which represents 1,800 two- and four-year colleges."

An editorial takes sides -- there was no compelling reason for them to use the Steinbach quote except for some (perhaps small) attempt at fairness. Remember again, these are opinions, not necessarily facts. They still have to be dealt with, though.

Quoting again:

"In the past two years, more than 60 deaths nationwide have been
linked to fraternity or sorority activity, mainly drinking. As Alfred
University President Charles Edmondson pointed out, if that many
deaths had been associated with varsity athletes, the NCAA would be
conducting an investigation. Edmondson called the numbers an epidemic.

Steinbach, of the American Council on Education, says that while the
deaths are intolerable, they are not out of proportion for what you
would expect from a similar sized population."

Personal comment: ANY death is intolerable when its caused by stupidity -- proportion be damned. Sixty? I have to reluctantly say that Edmondson is right -- if there were sixty sports related deaths, people would be screaming at the tops of their lungs at the NCAA. They're in the public spotlight even more than we are.

Anyway, my point still is this -- we've somehow gotta stop giving these people fuel for their fires. This editorial board could have been a LOT tougher.

DeltAlum, I know it's an opinion and not a news story. But just that first sentence is so inflammatory. Again, can you think of any other group that it would be acceptable to say that about?

Plus I would like to know the exact circumstances of those "more than 60 deaths linked to fraternity or sorority activity in the past 2 years." As we've discussed before, on sites like stophazing.org, if a sorority woman is crossing the street from her house to another house it's labeled a "Greek related death." It's kind of like the Naomi Wolf death from anorexia stats. Very elastic.

And I still say, if you are displeased with this opinion from the editorial board, cancel your subscription. This is the main reason I don't subscribe to either newspaper here - one kisses the mayor's ass until their lips are chapped, and the other is so far to the right it makes Pat Buchanan look like one of the Chicago Seven. The mayor's ass-kissing paper did a story (even worse since it WAS an actual news story) about Waynesburg dissolving their Greek system a couple years ago. It was so slanted it was ridiculous. The part that amused me the most was that the reporter said "the majority of the student body is anti-Greek" but of the 8 students he interviewed, 7 of them were in favor of continuing the Greek system.

Once again...as Butt-Head would say, paper or plastic?

Alfred U Lambda Chi Alpha
 

First off, I'm very happy to see so many people talking about Alfred. I am a brother of Lambda Chi Alpha at Alfred and have been in the fraternity since spring of 1999. I have seen this fraternity go through many struggles to regain our charter and to re-establish our reputation as a strong and positive force in Alfred. Like AKO and DZ (and others), we also have grades well above the all university averages. We are in great standing with both the school and our national. We contribute over $6,000 annually to local businesses. Multiply that by 12 other chapters and see the economic impact on a very small community. We participate in numerous community service organizations and are leaders in many many organizations around campus. Jason Pilarz, the editor in cheif of the newspaper (Fiat Lux) is the president of our chapter. For all we've been through, we find this to be the greatest insult to our organization. It is a gross insult to each and every Greek house on campus. LCA does not currently have a house. However we are a tight-knit, strong group. It's just one challenge that we have worked to our advantage.

In regards to only 4 percent of freshman showing interest....
That was from a survey sent to perspective high school students. How many of you, in your junior and senior years of high school even knew enough about college to really think you wanted to join a greek organization?? Furthermore, in a brotherhood of 20, we have only one man who attests to having any intent to join a fraternity when he first came to alfred. That statistic is meaningless. Brother and sisterhoods are not based on what people think in highschool! That's poppycock! They are based on what you FIND in college. How could those trustees have forgotten so much? Or perhaps the greeks in their day just weren't as strong.

Bob McComsey, the head of the trustees is a Lambda brother. He has shown no regard towards our chapter, even when we invited him personally to a simple barbeque. He brushed us off (I was one of the 3 who invited him) as if he was pushing away people who just wanted his money. We were only looking for brotherhood. He would have nothing to do with us. If he represents the trustees in general, then I fail to see how they came even close to understanding (or wanting to understand) who we are.

I am eagerly awaiting the release of the Greek Task Force's final report. They had little to no contact w/ the greeks during their "study". They offered an email that comments could be sent to with no response other than a form letter, "thank you for your email". They did not interview the chapters, or speak to the national headquarters of our 8 national organizations. They did not dig below the surface to see how greek houses help young people dealing with severe depression. Or how they can be places for fostering acceptance and tolerance of all people.

At risk of bordering on libel (perhaps i already have), it's been a long time rumor that Alfred has been seeking to become an Ivy League school. One requirement is that all greek organizations be on campus. The school does not have the money to buy all greek properties (undoubtedly many would refuse to sell) and so many of the houses are steeped in history that the greeks could not think of leaving their longtime homes for a new house on "greek row"... a street w/ now 2 (of 12) houses on it. Just the other day, the University announced a possible merger w/ Alfred State College. What will happen with their greek system? Is it another step towards Ivy? This is only speculation on my part, but it's too convenient to me to be coincidence. How disgusting if Alfred infact has used a friend of mine's death to further it's own prestige.

The school waited until the Monday after graduation to release it's decision, when they knew the decision the day before graduation. The trustees made their decision, waited til the students and parents were gone, and let the administration make the announcement and bare the brunt of the criticism, while the trustees return to their homes away from Alfred in peace. The administration of Alfred University took great strides to try to keep the greek system afloat. They would not have suspended two houses(Sigma Chi Nu sorority and Klan Alpine [not related to KKK in ANY way folks]), shut down ZBT, ordered house inspections, etc. if they were not interested in keeping the system going. They did those things to show that the university was taking the action it saw fit.

Perhaps the deepest hurt to all of us at Alfred came from the words of our trustees and former president. In new releases they acknowledged that they will likely lose money in donations from most recent alumni and current students (and parents) and that other universities had the same occurance. They went on to say that other universities still faired well, and they [Alfred U] was not concerned about the lost funds.

That speaks volumes as to what Alfred thinks about it's students!!! We're dollars they don't need. That's all we are. They simply don't care that they are cutting ties with people who love and care about Alfred Unversity. They don't care that the place we call home no longer feels welcoming. Several of my brothers have swore that each year during the annual fund we will send a letter to AU telling how much we would have donated, but instead donated to the Education Foundation of LCA instead. If I had more than just one more semester left, I would be transferring by now. Lambda Chi Alpha was my reason for staying in Alfred. They don't see that.

None of us [greeks] are going out w/out a proper fight. I'm in the process of contacting the ACLU to find out what we can do based upon legal rights of students.

Sorry to go on so long, but I had to say all this.

I doubt if their would be an investigation for college athletes dying. During last summer's heat wave , U of Florida, FSU and U of Miami had 3 football players die. Most people didnt even hear about it.

The 60 deaths were tragic but they should give us some numbers to make a comparison. How many college athletes actually died during the same time period? How many deaths have there been that were not related to fraternity or sorority activity?

A Northwestern Univesity football player died last year and it was on ESPN, local TV and in the newspapers for at least a week. The same with an NFL player who died in training camp.

If there were sixty reported deaths, there would be an investigation and huge media coverage.

Delta alum, as usual you are wrong.

Off of the top of my head I can list about 20 college athletes that have died in the last year.
I already mentioned the 3 football players that died in Florida. You added the football player from Northwestern. A pole vaulter from PSU died in the Big 10 Championships. 8 members of the U
of Wyoming X country team died in a van crash and one college lost half a dozen players from their basketball team in a small plane crash this year.

Its probably hard for you to understand but many stories do not make your local paper. There are millions of people that die in this country every year.


Has anyone checked out the Hank Newer website that lists the 60 "fraternity related" deaths? Many of the deaths listed on that site are bullshit and have little to do with fraternities other than the fact that the members might have been in fraternities. That BS site even listed the 2 kids that fell from a dorm room at U of K while wrestling. What did that have to do with a fraternity? They also listed suicides, accidential drownings, and a number of car accidents that were not alcohol related. Ex. Joe from "alpha beta" was hit by a car that ran a red light. How the hell is that a fraternity realted death?


Does anyone know the cause of death for the ZBT brother at Alfred? The last story I read said that the beating had nothing to do with his death.

Mad Max. Dont bad mouth Delta Alum to hard! He is just passing along what he knows!

I talked to one of the LXA Brothers Sun. about what went on and He said it is Bull Shi#! But nothing that they as Chapters can do about it at Alfreds!

I think it would behoove each and every Greek Organization on this site to contact your Organizati0ns and back the Groups against what this crap is!

I for one have written Alfred U voiicing my opinion and many of my LXA Brothers are voicing their opinions to International!

I am going to post a new thread soon on what I just found out about another Weed Covered Eastern School!

DA has some insight on what is going on because of his contacts with the Media!

Yes he post negative things, Da, but that is what sells attention, and money!