Corbin,

Upon a closer inspection of my post, you'll notice that I quoted directly off of the Library of Congress web directory. The book about Sigma Chi I identified is their pledge manual, not their ritual book. I'm very well aware of the myth about every/some ritual books being there, but thanks for your reply. I believe most, if not all, pledge manuals in fact are in the Library of Congress. The call number for Sigma Chi's is given in my post just above yours.

Ok, I clicked the link and it said the page was expired. I didn't go to the trouble to figure out which SX book it was. Yeah, I'd say all pledge manuals are in the LOC, because they don't have anything in them that you wouldn't want a non-brother to know.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

joe1897 -

As much as I love Crows (and I do) there's no way they are among the biggest nationally. They only have about 50 chapters.

The Norman Shield is NOT the Ritual book, you can even buy it on Ebay...Sigma Chi's Ritual book was supposedly stolen from the Library of congress, just an old story I heard.

Crows? I thought they were only in the North East. I doubt they are among the top 10.

Again, there are no ritual books in the LOC. If there are any, then it's something like DU that's not even secret. I'd heard the whole story too, about how ours was the only one not in the LOC, because Truman was pres. at the time. check out the link i posted above for the whole story.

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

according to Kappa Sigma's international offices, we are currently in the top 6 national fraternities in terms of number of initiated members, and also in terms of number of chapters (over 220,000 and 206) - but the exact numbers (for us, and for other houses) aren't up-to-date, so national just leaves it at that - top 6.

That doesn't really solve the puzzle, but I guess it's another piece.

I don't know how up to date this is, but at one point us Pikes held 203 chapters and 7 colonies across the U.S., and maintained the largest average chapter/colony size in the country, but as i said that may be old news.

Who are the crows? I've never heard of that term before.

I think SAE is one of the VERY strong groups nationally/internationally (damn canucks - jk). I'd be interested to know what your insurance limits are and what each undergrad pays for it. What did SAE pay out in shcolarships this year from their Eondowment. Kappa Simga gave more than $250k this year, which I was told was tops.

Curious.
Brad

Crows are the nickname for Alpha Chi Rho. One of my buddy is one over at STony Brook University.

Ah, thanks http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Ah well
 

I dont really care where my fraternity falls on "the most people " catagory. Any Sig will tell you quality before quantity. I am however proud of Sigma Chi for our prosperity, and leadership on almost 250 campuses across America and Canada. There was a quote by David Letterman lately who said " 230,000" men cant be even close to wrong."
Just to humor you however this is my understanding of the top three in regardance to size.
1.TKE
2.Sigma Phi Epsilon
3.SIGMA CHI

For accuracy: Sigma Pi's badge is also in the shape of a cross:

http://secure.cartsvr.net/client_ima...gmaPiBadge.gif

Oh, and where did you dig up this old fossil of a thread?

Gentlemen, gentlemen! Don't you know that size doesn't matter?

You know you like them big you dirty hooker.

I love it when you talk dirty to me!

So is ATO's.

Man some of you people make me sick. It's sad how people are so impressed with numbers and statistics instead of the real spirit of a fraternity.

It doesn't matter which organization you join. In the end, you only can join 1. You can't try them all out once being a brother so it's pretty stupid to honestly think outside of statistics that you are truely greater than another. You might as well start comparing races and thinking "Hmmm well there are less jews out there than christians so christians are better, yay!".

The college I go to Sigma Alpha Mu is the best. We do the most on campus, we have some of the most quality guys, I wouldn't ever pick another fraternity if given another chance. I think some of the best experiences in college happened with them and I wouldn't ever take anything back.

There is TKE, Sigma Chi, KA, SAE and even at some point Kappa Sig. Kappa Sig's colony died. SAE doesn't compare to our chapter. TKE is good, they are great guys but the involvement we have with campus and the way we do things has been proven to be better.

Sigma Chi is brand new, they are doing good but in no way are they the same type of men as SAMS. The things they do don't develop character nor prove you fufill being a true man like a SAM. Maybe at other colleges its different. I dunno, I personally don't care because im not a Sigma Chi.

Sigma Alpha Mu has 60 chapters. Reason being is that it's founded as originally being Jewish. Trying to market that is hard. Especially in the south. SAM dominates at colleges like FIU, Texas, Rutgers, Indiana, West Florida, Cornell, etc.

Pretty much every fraternity is good in specific colleges. PIKE is amazing I heard at FIU. PIKE got kicked out of UCF, potentially UF and even UWF. I think the award to the most hazing incidents ever was SAE. If you count the number they had it's probably the most. Either way, it happens. You have bad organizations, you have good.

Statistically, SAM is weak. Statisically Sigma Chi, SAE, PIKE, TKE and Sigma Phi Eplison are the best. I really dont care. I love my fraternity, and that's what actually counts in the end. Im sure SAM will grow over the next 20 years. I'm not worried. Because what we produce is quality and even if that's limited to where and when, it's all that counts in my opinion.

Not to mention, at least I know at my college SAMs are trustable and great people. Facualty and Staff like us. Girls like us. Most commities are ran by us. That IMO is a win for some organization that statistically looks bad.

It's also a bit sad when someone starts going off on 8-year-old (or older) posts, very few of which actually related size to quality (some specifically said the two have nothing to do with each other), and most of which were posted by people who haven't been seen here in ages. ;)

co-sign

HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

Quote from one of my favorite anti-hazing videos:

SAMMY SAMMY THEYRE EVERYWHERE, THEYRE EVERYWHERE, SAMMY SAMMY

I think it's sad when someone comes on a message board and resurrects an old post, just to trash a bunch of other fraternities. Congratulations - you're a credit to your organization.

None of those are words.

Especially not "trustable."

But he loves his fraternity, so it's OK. Spelling only matters when you're in a super-huge organization.

However poorly it was phrased, the SAM guy does sort of have a point -- it really shouldn't matter if the org is the biggest nationally. TPA is (I think) the smallest national sorority, but if their chapter is amazing and you feel it, join it! Likewise, if one of the older/more established/bigger groups isn't right for you, it shouldn't matter that they're the largest/oldest/what-have-you. Maybe it's a tie-breaker if you really can't decide between groups (you might think of it in terms of networking after graduation, which COULD make a difference), but overall, who cares? (Other than bragging rights).

So while it's an interesting concept to talk about who's the biggest (and for boys I have trouble seeing this as anything other than a euphemism for masculinity), but ultimately, SAM is right. Although he's still kind of a douche for saying it that way, and he needs to learn how to spell.

what?

How's he right? All he did was advertise SAM.
He basically said, size doesn't matter, SAM is the shiz.

Wait, let me go get my recruitment papers so I can type up an essay, bash the other fraternities on my campus, and I'll be right too, yeah?

I don't think his post was at all (even subconsciously) about boasting masculinity; I think he was just being a pompous douche.

What are you talking about?

And that point had already been made quite a few times in the thread. There was no point in bumping an old thread to say that "some of you people make me sick," when the people who apparently make him sick said this stuff 8+ years ago.

Helle again, Tom. :rolleyes:

I thought it was a Tom/BA combo.
Chop!

Um ok I dunno what some of you haters are complaining about but you miss the point. Numbers are nice, but if you think you are everything, your missing the entire point of even being greek. The whole point is find some meaning while your at college and make it a memorable experience. If you join some organization for numbers, your completely destroying the point.

And numbers are sometimes for reasons. Sigma Chi was what the 7th fraternity ever founded? The only old fraternity that's older than them and has a legit amount of chapters is Delta Upsilon. Sigma Chi is 150 years old, started in 1855 verses SAM founded in 1909 and was restricted to Jewish only members and looking at their chapter role, they had 1 fraternity in the South until about after the 60's.

I mean im sorry if I have pride in an organization that has proven to to be good and continues to be good. If your organization is one of the largest chapters and is huge, then congratulations. Im just glad I found an organization that doesn't attempt to kill you but proves your manhood and makes you a better person.

It is one thing to have pride in your orginzation, and another to bash others. Plus exactly do you mean a legit amount of chapters? aren't you the one who just finished saying size doesn't matter?

The "haters" are talking because you bumped an eight-year-old thread to argue with folks who don't even post anymore. Take some time to get a feel for the boards before trying to bash people.

Obviously, we know the importance of finding our places in the Greek system. I doubt we'd be posting here if we didn't.

No, I think you're missing the point. You've resurrected an 8-year-old thread just to make points already made, argue mainly with people who haven't posted here in years and unnecessarily trash other fraternities.

Maybe you should use your time to check out some history instead. Beta Theta Pi and Phi Delta Theta are both older than Sigma Chi and have what I assume would be a "legit amount" of chapters.

How many do they have? Since I remember doing the search and Delta Upsilon was the only ones with decent number of chapters left (as in the two digits at least).

Sorry I used google and found this thread. If it's not that important to you or if it makes you annoyed that I did so, just don't post. Don't be so immature about it.

Having pride in your organization doesn't mean Im bashing others. I love the TKEs, their like our brother fraternity at my school. I work with a KA and their tight too. That's not what I'm trying to say which again many are failing to miss the point. SAEs are basically our rivals since they crush us in greek week. Sigma Chi is very uprising and has big numbers which is good. These are facts that I am saying. Just because I said that SAM is the most involved on my campus doesn't mean the other organizations on my campus are bad nor does it mean that nobody else is good.

Which is a fact that at my college SAM does run stuff but that's because we work hard to do so . 1600-1700 community services hours in a year, 2 years in a row, half our SGA is SAM, lots of Orientation Leaders are SAMs, our homecoming committee is mainly SAMs, faculty that is mainly SAM alumnis and some actives, basically all events there is we are all there and doing what we can, we are actually a serious organization. Again, not bashing anyones organizations, but I have seen chapters that just party and die out in 3 years and don't care about anyone else and everybody at their college hates them with a passion.

I think SAM is great because it knows how to do a fraternity. If you seen some other organizations (not mentioning which) from what I heard about their rituals and how they operate, it's not nearly as legit. Some fraternities out there literally try to kill you or basically take advantage of you. Some don't make their rituals have meaning and some just love to fuck around with you or actually attempt manslaughter. You can't blame me for liking an organization that I feel like I can actually trust.

And you shouldn't blame me for thinking that. The fact that people still die in fraternity incidents is sad as hell. When I saw my U of Maryland chapter just closed for alchohol poisoning I just thought wow they should go to hell for ruining our name. Since after being at my school, I would never think it's like that anywhere else.

But yeah, again it's called everyone chapter is completely different, a fact of life that some need to get over. No fraternity is globally identical, but if you went greek and enjoyed it, then w/e anyone has to do say that's bull is bs.

This entire post gave me a stroke :(

You're a hypocrite.

And LOL @ SAM knowing how to "do" a fraternity.

First off I would like to mention that the KA Society is by your definition legit in that it has 26 chapters and it is considered the first fraternity. Second just because somebody operates differently then you do doesn't mean they are a good organization. I would love to see where you see in an organizations rituals that allow the type of behavior you are condemning. And as for you making fun of new fraternities, SAM isn't even 100 years old yet.

Why does it matter? I thought your point was that numbers don't correllate to how strong a fraternity is (which most here would agree with).

But since you asked (and if two digits is your criteria of "legit"):

Some fraternities older than Sigma Chi (1855):

Kappa Alpha Society (1825): 14 active chapters
Sigma Phi (1827): 10 active chapters
Delta Phi (1827): 14 active chapters
Psi Upsilon (1833): 28 active chapters
Delta Upsilon (1834): 84 active chapters
Beta Theta Pi (1839): 118 active chapters and colonies
Chi Psi (1841): 29 active chapters
Delta Kappa Epsilon (1844): 66 active chapters
Theta Delta Chi (1847): 31 active chapters and colonies
Zeta Psi (1847): 47 active chapters
Phi Delta Theta (1848): 160 active chapters and colonies
Phi Gamma Delta (1848): 120 active chapters and colonies
Phi Kappa Psi (1852): 97 active chapters and colonies
Alpha Sigma Phi (1854): 68 cative chapters

(Members of these groups, correct me please if my numbers are wrong.)

Good grief. The one being immature here, if anyone is, is you. Before you post on a forum where you're new, you might want to take some time to get a feel for it. That you way, you might learn that you are likely to get some heat when you resurrect an old thread just to say "you people make me sick" and make points already made years ago.

Not to mention that, according to you, the Sigma Chis at your school "don't develop character nor prove you fufill being a true man."

But you're not bashing other fraternities. :rolleyes:

It surprises me how fellow greeks as yourself fail to understand where I am coming from. BTW it's SAM's 100 anniversary this year =)

I never said that other organizations are greater or less than Sigma Alpha Mu. I am just claiming that I have seen greatness in my organization and I am very proud of it. Your acting as I shouldn't have any right to say Sigma Alpha Mu is a great organization and the chapter I was in knew how to run things correctly.

I went to a small college, not a large one which is probably a huge factor. I am sure you have good organizations at large schools, but I have seen it to be more common at larger colleges for fraternities to actually haze and pretty much defile the entire concept of a fraternity. There are lots of people that take it too far. I am not saying you can't reproduce what SAM does, but some people think they do and they normally don't. A pure example of this is a college where SAM is at and it's not #1. Oh well, that's normal. Or a college that doesn't have SAM. Who cares?

My chapter works hard to be a good fraternity and produces results. Are you jealous because yours doesn't? I just don't understand why your acting all offended that my organization just happens to be the most dominant at my college. You don't see me getting mad if your organization was the best at your college.

Fantastic, you like your fraternity. Congratulations to you. Still no reason to take shots at other fraternities, take shots at others' rituals (which, to be honest, you probably don't even know), or to post the rest of this garbage.