Membership selection = discrimination. No way around it, for any group, unless you plan to bid everyone.

You caught me. I just really wanted your attention!

Considering there have been first hand accounts on GC of chapters praying over PNMs (and no mention of their "Christian identity" anywhere in anything related to them) I'd say more than one group's got issues, if indeed there are issues.

As DeltaBetaBaby says, unless a GLO gives a bid to every person who wants one, they are discriminating.

Care to elaborate? How many GLOs? Which ones? In what capacity?

And while you're at it, what first hand experience do you have with AEPhi and its recruitment policies and practices? Because if you're relying on what others have told you—including what they've told you about recruitment decisions—that's hearsay, not your own experience.

A number of sororities have "Christian identity"

Alpha Delta Pi: "...exemplifying the highest ideals of Christian womanhood."

Alpha Sigma Alpha: "It is represented through our exemplar Christ..."

Chi Omega: "'Hellenic Culture and Christian Ideals' This statement summarizes the foundation of Chi Omega. Our members recognize the efforts and enlightenment of the Greek world and they strive to uphold the values of a Judeo Christian lifestyle."

Delta Delta Delta: "After learning of the Christian principles and aims of Tri Delta..."

Kappa Delta: "... was founded on the Christian principles of truth, honor and beauty of the soul."

Pi Beta Phi: “The debate is over whether or not Pi Beta Phi is a religious Fraternity, or more specifically, a Christian fraternity. Answers vary depending whom you ask. The Fraternity was created by Christian women and based on Christian values, but...Being a Christian has never been a requirement to become a member of Pi Beta Phi.”

Phi Mu: "was started in 1852 by three Christian women...Their creed states..." "...God as a protector and guide of us all...reverence God as our Maker, striving to serve Him in all things."

Theta Phi Alpha: "Theta Phi Alpha was originally founded to offer Catholic women the experience of sorority life..."

No, no, no, no, no.

I am a member of Alpha Sigma Alpha and while it's true Christ is one of our four exemplars, the other three are St Valentine (Catholic), King Asa (Jewish) and Hermes (Greek God).

The title of exemplar means we value various of their qualities, not that our members need to practice their particular religion.

I'll let members of the other groups read you on why your concept is super flawed.

As far as Alpha Delta Pi is concerned, we were founded by women with a Christian faith but do not discriminate at all in the present day with religion. I'm agnostic and have been perfectly welcomed within my chapter, and we have other sisters who are Jewish or nonreligious in some way. Are there aspects of our ritual that clearly draw from Christianity? Yes, there are, but I was told that I could opt not to directly participate in those aspects if I didn't feel comfortable doing so.

I apologize I didn't read the whole Alpha Sigma Alpha webpage or I would have seen the are other exemplars.

Your point does not say anything to deny that the rest of the groups openly have Christian roots...representing 23% of NPC. And you cannot deny that Jewish/African-American/Non-religious GLOs were created because at that time there was discrimination in Christian-rooted GLOs and those members were not accepted.

No one was denying this, not that I've seen in this thread. I'm not proud of the discriminatory actions my organization has taken in the past, but I will not pretend that it did not happen.

We're not talking about things that happened 100 years ago, we're talking about things that are happening now.

Wikipedia isn't a first-hand source, you know. Some twit has gone crazy with KD's page.

The creation of Black Greek Letter Organizations had nothing to do with being barred from white fraternities and sororities. No founder of any NPHC organization wanted to be a member of a white fraternity or sorority.

BGLOs are a different type of organization entirely. They use fraternalism as the framework of social justice. That is not what the other organizations do.

This is a commonly held misconception, so please don't think I'm attacking you. But it's very important to understand that blacks being barred from membership in white organizations was not the CAUSE for the founding of black organizations.

(Especially since only three of the nine NPHC organizations were even founded at white colleges in the first place.)

Can you be more specific? While there has been a lot of editing this year, most of it has been by a fairly experienced editor deleting information is closer to what would be in a rush pamphlet than what is normally in Wikipedia. Perhaps some of those sections could be restored with secondary sources (Newspaper articles, etc)

Beliefs and the NPC
 

Due to statements made presumably either during Ritual or in other application material and pledging processes...
1) Is there any NPC sorority that would feel uncomfortable with a chapter having the President of the College Hillel. (Jewish student group)
2) Is there any NPC sorority that would feel uncomfortable with a chapter having the President of the College Pagan Society.
3) Is there any NPC sorority that would feel uncomfortable with a chapter having the President of the College Agnostic Society.
4) Is there any NPC sorority that would feel uncomfortable with a chapter having the President of the College Atheist Society.

(Uncomfortable is up to and including charter revocation for having broken national membership rules)

Here's the thing...a lot of NPC groups (including my own) accept women of all backgrounds, but then expect them to participate in recitation of a creed that references the Christian or Judeo-Christian god*. So, I think the answer to your question is something like, "No, as long as they will act Christian at times."

*I'm referencing open creeds here because that's what we can all see, rather than getting into ritual, but we all know the majority of NPC rituals contain scripture.

And as I tried to update my post to say, espousing "Christian values" does not mean you are a Christian, i.e. believe Jesus is the Messiah. There are atheists and pagans out there who conduct their lives in a more Christian way than some self professed Christians do.

Obviously. But if the chapter is majority Christian...especially one that espouses "Christian values" I'm not surprised there's Christian actions going on. Praying over pledges was one thing you said and you were surprised because sororities do not mention "Christian identity" but my point is that a good number in NPC mention Christian ties openly.

You are completely missing the point.

That's something individual chapters have been said to do, NOT the entire organization. It's the opposite of what people are accusing AEPhi of. Sorry I had to so painstakingly spell that out for you.

And once again, having what are referred to as "Christian values" does not mean you are a Christian. None of those "references" you cut and pasted says you have to be Christian to join, and Pi Phi's explicitly states that it's not necessary.

I am not. You brought up comparing AEPi to what individual chapters have been said to do.

This was my point. A good number of NPCs mention "Christian identity" somewhere. :D

Being Christian or not for joining was never my point. But a Christian majority chapter can identify with Christian elements and use it as thinking it's okay to do Christian things. It's justification.

I won't reveal my gender or GLO but Christian "things" are in my ritual. I don't want to specify what. I know we are not alone. If those "things" are in rituals and ritual is a backbone of a GLO, it's not surprising that chapters are ok to do "things" that might be "things" like pray to God as a group. If you look at a whole picture that seems normal when considering that they might have similar "things" in the ritual.

You don't have to be Christian to join, but you have to do what ritual asks which can include a Christian oath, Christian creed, Christian principles, and Christian practices.

Maybe this is you chapter policy or maybe GLOs have updated this. It should depend on what it is and I don't want to give away information but when I pledged we had no opting out.

I don't know if you're purposely obtuse, but considering you used MY sorority as an example and are in effect saying we're something we're not, it makes me a tad hot under the collar.

I suggest you go look up the word "exemplar." I also suggest you look up the word "identity. " You're going to have to turn pages twice, because they're two different things. Using your logic you could have just as easily said ASA has a Jewish identity since we have a Jewish exemplar. But since you were just cherry picking to find what you wanted, you didn't bother to read that far.

You might find that your credibility is enhanced and that what you're saying is given some helpful context if you reconsider this.

I don't know if you're purposely obtuse but I already admitted I made a mistake about your organization.

Thank you for the advice but I don't feel comfortable. I feel I've said too much already.

If you made one ridiculously lazy mistake, I'm betting you made others with the other groups.

I have noticed I'm not the only one you're rude to. I wonder if there is an ignore function here. :rolleyes:

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-co...Nasty-rude.gif

Really? After nine posts and being a member for a short time? I should like to know whose sock you are; or am I the only one wondering that? Probably not.

You're not the only one.